Question about CCW verbiage ("except in his place of abode") [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Nicky9
05-29-2007, 05:40
Gentlemen,
I have a question related to carrying on your property in PA. If I own a property in PA, but do not hold residency in PA or a CCW license in any other state (Fl resident)… can I carry concealed on my property without a permit? More than likely i would carry in a fanny pack (.357) Here is the verbiage that I found on Packing.org that had me thinking…

Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

Any other advise on this? Things to know or be worried about?
Thanks in advance…
Nicky9

vermeire
05-29-2007, 14:20
What type of property is this? If it is a summer/hunting/vacation home then you are good to go. If it is justs vacant land then I would suggest carrying openly instead. This of course is just my opinion and how I understand the statute. IANAL and recommend that you seek professional advise or call the AG for their advise on the matter.

Nicky9
05-30-2007, 05:30
Originally posted by vermeire
What type of property is this? If it is a summer/hunting/vacation home then you are good to go. If it is justs vacant land then I would suggest carrying openly instead. This of course is just my opinion and how I understand the statute. IANAL and recommend that you seek professional advise or call the AG for their advise on the matter.
It is basically a summer vacation home. And you are refering to the Attorney General correct? I was under the impression that open carry is not allowed in PA? Only concealed carry with a permit. Just confused to the verbiage and legal side of this. Thanks for the insight and direction.

n3hcp
05-31-2007, 14:05
Perhaps a real lawyer will chime in here, but until then...My understanding of PA law is that any place where you are legally living is your legal abode. I was told by a State Park Ranger that a camper, when set up in a park, is considered your abode and as such cannot be searched without a warrant. Given that, your vacation home would be your abode while you are in residence there. You should enjoy the same rights and privileges there as I do here in my house and on my property.

Open carry is legal in PA, although you will probably find any number of LEOs who don't understand this. Do a search...there have been just over a gillizion threads on open carry in PA.

Steve in PA
05-31-2007, 15:15
What you need is to find the legal definition of "abode".

An abode is any place where you are living or staying, however I do not know if it only means the structure itself, or if it includes the land.

n3hcp
06-01-2007, 07:10
Originally posted by Steve in PA
What you need is to find the legal definition of "abode".

An abode is any place where you are living or staying, however I do not know if it only means the structure itself, or if it includes the land. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to find out what an "abode" is in PA (yea, I know, I need a life:shocked:). Legal definitions of "domicile" and "residence" are easy to find, "abode" is another matter Look HERE (http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q038.htm) for an example.

This is starting to look like one of those situations where a clear cut answer will not be forth-coming. You should check with a lawyer in PA for a real opinion.

IMHO, IANAL, but while "abode" may indeed mean only the structure you are living in, it's hard to imagine a situation where carrying concealed on the property associated with the home would be a problem, assuming you have exclusive use. If it's a time share or something like that where other people share use of the property, that's another story.

Minuteman
06-01-2007, 07:33
I read that to mean you do not need a permit to carry on private property of your home. The wording is almost exactly the same here in Washington state.

Unless there is another law on the issue, it should mean you can carry open or concealed anywhere on your property, but that won't save you the headache if your neighbors call you in for "man with a gun" if they see it.
I don't see how it could mean just in your home, if they also say "fixed place of buisness". That cannot possibly mean you can carry when you take out the trash at work, but not at home. It doesn't say in the buisness building only.

Be discrete, and your legal on your property.
You can also carry long guns.

:patriot:

Nicky9
06-01-2007, 21:09
Thanks for the leg work fellas. I did some searching myself. Looks like concealed would work on the property... on the water so open might cause to much attention.
Thanks again.