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DeadSteam
06-08-2007, 17:59
Hello, I'm thiking of moving into the AZ area, pref near phoenix. I was wondering a little bit about what the gun athmospher was liek out there? I have found some conflicting information, particularly regarding open carry. Some have told me that open carry is widely accepted, and others have said you can be arrested just for the gun being on the wrong side of the officer if you are approched. I checked packing.org but it won't give anything close the the first hand experience you all will have living there.

So, what's it like in AZ?

hospitalcop
06-09-2007, 08:14
Its the wild west..there is gunfights in every part of town. Just kidding. open carry is legal, but CCW makes much more sense. It pays not to advertise, unless you want someone to hassle you.

blueiron
06-09-2007, 09:02
Phoenix is the big city. Expect to have ignorant people call the police because of you.

thetoastmaster
06-09-2007, 11:55
The more folks that carry openly, the more folks will get used to it. I say go for it.

DeadSteam
06-09-2007, 12:52
Thanks for the replies. I'd like to apologize for all the spelling errors in my first post. anyways. I understand that most people think that CCW is smarter than open carry, truth is I kinda do too. I was really asking what the athmosphere is like there, I knew one guy who told me that I would relatively frequently see people openly carrying, and another that told me I would be arrested for doing so, if I was carrying on my right hip and a police officer was on my left side....

I understand that stupid people in phoenix will call the police, my real question is are the police smart? when they receive a call about something that is totally legal(open carry) do they respond appropriately or freak out because someone has a gun?

I guess I'm asking how common ccw/open carry is around you guys. and how it's treated. Here in South Dakota Open carry is very legal, but in Sioux Falls I have been stoped multiple times by police who didn't know that. After 45 minutes of harrasment they tell me I'm legal and let me go. I was just wondering if Arizona, Phoenix in particular is at all like that.

thetoastmaster
06-09-2007, 13:06
The problem with Phoenix is that most of the people that live theri now are not actually from there (too many left coast transplants). I can't say if it's true of the police too, or not.

I foresee a time when Arizona is completely Kalifornicated, and her libetarian streak will be completely erased. You can help reverse the trend by open carrying as often as possible. When I lived in Arizona, I used to open carry neary every day.

blueiron
06-09-2007, 16:56
Originally posted by DeadSteam


I understand that stupid people in phoenix will call the police, my real question is are the police smart? when they receive a call about something that is totally legal(open carry) do they respond appropriately or freak out because someone has a gun?

I was just wondering if Arizona, Phoenix in particular is at all like that.

As a police officer for over 23 years in the netro Phoenix area, I can say that I got calls all the time about people with guns. Of course, its made up to be a high priority call in case some looney is running loose with one. Many were people playing airsoft in the street [I personally wish people would stop this in the city and in plain view of sheeple], some were just moseying around town with a holstered pistol, some were leaving a gunshop [!], some were going to or returning to the range and their neighbors had issues with guns, some were squirt guns/BB guns/toy guns, etc.

Are the police smart? Heck, is the public smart? We hire all cops from the public, ya know... I would hope that most cops have looked at and made themselves familiar with weapon misconduct laws, but you can never be certain about anything. I have seen more than a few dumb cops here.

Very few people are natives here and they all expect to live like the did in California, the midwest, and the east coast. They expect the same laws to apply too. I quit going to Court or out on the street with an exposed holstered sidearm/handcuffs/badge/radio/etc. because some fool would only see the pistol and call it in. It got old real quick to tell dispatch that the armed man near the school was a cop trying to conduct an investigation.

Do yourself a favor and get a CCW and carry that way. You won't get stopped by a nervous cop doing a 'tactical' stop on you for having a firearm and you have the upper edge in case something happens while you are about doing your thing.

Save open carry for Cowboy shoots, hunting, and exploring out in the rural parts of the state where more people have their heads screwed on straight.

DeadSteam
06-09-2007, 17:31
Thank you for your reply. I want to clarify that I wasn't attempting to insult the police, or question their inteligence. It was more of a poorly worded attempt at humor.

For example I was once stoped here in Sioux falls by a detective responding to a "man with a gun" call. the first words out of his mouth were "don't worry your perfectly legal to carry a gun" Followed by his next actions being disamrming me, Not handcuffing me but restraining me with my arm behind my back and my front pressed against his car, and then searched me including going through my wallet to check for my CCW (which was not required for open carry). After about 20 minutes of running all my personal information and having 5 more officers arrive on the scene, he handed me back my loaded gun and said, yep your not doing anything illegal, have a nice day.

When I get treatment like that where I'm living now I have to wonder what it will be like when I move. I was really just hoping to get feedback from people living in the area about the general pro/anti gun feeling. Especially when it's on average like 105 in the summer... I'm used to the cold.


anywasy, thanks again for your response and I hope you understand that I really wasn't attempting to insult anyone. I used smart to simply refer to commonsense. If the police got a call saying that someone was driving and obeying the speed limit I imagine the response would be something like "no ****, thanks for wasting our time". All I hope is that they respond the same way if a call were to be recieved saying that a man is shopping in the mall, and he's openly carrying a gun.

I guess I just would have to get there and see what it's like. I tell you what though. I'm sick of having to justify why I'm exercising my rights.

Oh well. I guess I'll see. Since my job transfer came through and I will be moving into phoenix.


thanks all for the help and for the feedback.

Azjeeper
06-09-2007, 18:16
I open carry from time to time and have never had a negative experience with the police, only time I notice any raised eyebrows is when an out of state tourist passes me. People dont even look twice at me. and when I am out I see people carrying handguns in home improvent stores coffee shops and all sorts of buisnesses and I seem to be the only guy doing double takes checking out what the other guy is packing. Arizona is a long way from being the next california politcally I lived in calif before and honestly I think los angeles and sanfranciso run that state. Just open carry in a tasteful manner and carry yourself like a gentleman be a good ambassador for the 2nd amendment. a right not exercised is a right lost. Im sure you will love it here. just remember its a dry heat.

blueiron
06-10-2007, 20:57
No insult taken. No need to worry.

My idea to is blend in and avoid controversy. I have been the one who gets called out to deal with a citizen with a gun and if the citizen is be legit, who cares? Too many people get wound up when they see someone with one in a holster, but not enough call when it is being waved around or pointed at someone.

Just realize that Arizona is going downhill politically and there are already cries to rein in gun ownership. Too many non-natives with the idea that they want this to be like where they came from instead of adopting the Arizona way of life.

By the way, if you open carry in the Phoenix area, expect to get stopped like you did in Sioux Falls. We aren't a nice quiet little place any more, sad to say.

Azjeeper
06-11-2007, 08:49
Is the actual city of phoenix that much different than the east valley? I am in mesa and honestly see alot of people open carry. Ive walked by many of east valleys finest with an exposed sidearm and I have nothing bad to say about those fine gentelmen. who knows maybe being clean cut with a short hair cut helps me out?

bpisler
06-11-2007, 13:56
I used to open carry in the metro
phoenix area in fact i carried that
way for over 13 years.I had zero
problems with the police and the
general public,no one ever called the police on me and i carried every
where that it was legal to do so.

It was only a year ago that i got my
Az ccw permit and started carrying
concealed most of the time.But the
main reason i got the permit is that
i could carry concealed in other states when i travel with my wife.

vart
06-11-2007, 14:53
I'm an AZ newbie; been here for just over a year.

I lived in Iowa for a few years before moving here, and grew up in Idaho.

The Midwest definately does suck in terms of acceptance of firearms; any state that bans rifles for hunting deer has some firearm phobia issues:upeyes: .

Idaho is heaven on earth in every respect except for employment, and I plan on moving back there when I retire.

This state, however, can go from heaven on earth to hell on earth within an hour's drive;) .

I live an hour or so north of Phoenix and I regularly open-carried until I could afford my CCW. I had absolutely no problems, and I even carried in Costco.

However, I have a military haircut, am white, 6'1" 250 lbs, dress nicely, etc.

Maybe the East-coasters and Cali-transplants mistake me for an off-duty shepard??

OTOH, I never open-carried in Phoenix, but I always carried a sidearm the couple of times I went there pre-CCW.

My advice would be to go to the Gunsite CCW class ASAP, pay the $100 class fee, plus $65 for the CCW, get invaluable info on AZ gun laws, and carry discreetly and legally:thumbsup: .

blueiron
06-11-2007, 18:44
Prescott? It is turning into a liberal artist colony. I used to go up there for the rodeo on July 4th and antelope hunting north and east of the Dells. The place acts like California, now that many of them bailed and live there now. I remember when some liberal fool stuck a sign on the Roughriders statue saying "no more war". How nice! They ruined a perfectly nice place.

The heck with Gunsite for CCW, as it is too much money. Go attend a community college for less money and the same training. Save the money for an advanced class there.

Doc Holliday
06-11-2007, 18:51
East Valley is definitely different than Phoenix proper, or especially Snobbsdale - God forbid you open carry there! (although, now that I am thinking about it, maybe I should open carry there MORE!)

What if everyone who had a firearm carried openly? Wow, that would shock alot of people, eh? LOL :banana:

bbvk05
06-11-2007, 20:18
Lived in phoenix/metro my whole life. We natives have the general sense that things are not as good as they used to be, but as far as open carry goes just go for it, you will not have many problems. I open carry regularly and have never been stopped by a LEO or any kind of establishment for carrying there. In almost the whole city nobody even gave me a second look with a g22 or g23 strapped on. The only place I have ever gotten stares was at In-N-Out burger in chandler. California people were just crapping themselves.

when you carry, open or concealed, it is important to remember never to go in a place that serves alcohol, not even an olive garden.

DeadSteam
06-11-2007, 21:15
Hey, Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like most of you have never had any trouble openly carrying. That's great news to me, not just cause I like OC but because it means less hassle for things like accidental printing/exposing. About the Gunsite comment, I don't know If I would go there for their basic class or not, but I am very excited about being so close to attend some of the more advanced stuff they teach.

Well as it turns out I will be living in Phoenix as of this upcoming Monday. :)

I promise not to stink the place up.


Now I just need to find a good apartment.

blueiron
06-11-2007, 22:16
If you want a CCW permit, go to Glendale Community College. Since it is a college class, it is tax-deductible as education and you get college credits for it. A darn good program at or less than the big dollar places like SGC/Gunsite/etc.

G26AZ
06-17-2007, 23:58
I've seen a few open carrys in my local Wal-Mart. Most of the time people don't notice a thing - they're too wrapped up in their own problems of trying to remember what CD they're gonna but or whatever. One day there was a slightly CHarlie Manson looking type with an R&G POS revolver on his belt, a bunch of cartridge loops, a HUGE knife and . . . . . HANDCUFFS! I followed him around for awhile to watch the reactions of people when they saw his gun, but until he got in line, I never saw anybody that noticed the gun. I saw some disapproving looks at his appearance, but nobody seemed to notice that he was armed.
After that I stopped worrying about whether or not there was a slight buldge on my right side under my shirt or not.
Most of the time unless you do something to draw attention to yourself, the only ones who will notice that you're open carrying will be the CCW/GT readers amongst us.

Azjeeper
06-18-2007, 00:10
Yea I think I am the only guy who really looks at people. Hope Im not mistaken for an anti. I never worry about printing in public much. There are alot of good places to take your ccw class I took mine at caswells in mesa. I would love to go to gunsite but doubt I will be able to afford it in the near future. good luck with the apartment hunt.

DeadSteam
06-20-2007, 16:42
Thanks again. I'm posting this from my hotel room in Phoenix and the search has begun. :) So far I have to say I'm impressed. I love the scenery, and the city itself seems big enough to keep me happy. :)

Scottsdale Thug
06-20-2007, 17:33
Welcome to the Valley!

...a little warm huh?

I open carry fairly frequently where I live in "snobbsdale".

I have never had any real problems. The only thing I can think of is when I was on my way home from the range one day. I stopped by a local sub shop for lunch and while I was ordering I caught a lady out of the corner of my eye approach the door and quickly turn away (because of my awesome situational awareness). As I left I noticed her a couple doors down cowering behind a trash can (tiny bit of sarcasm). I returned a couple days later and upon chatting up the manager I found out that she was scared of the gun that was holstered on my hip. She was so scared she would not even enter the shop. Looking back I should have looked for some Cali license plates as I left :supergrin:

But yeah... no major problems like they say it is the "Wild West"

+1 For all the natives

And again :welcome:

edit:spelling

DeadSteam
06-20-2007, 17:43
Warm.
:laughabove:

Yes, a little. :)

Anyways, Thanks for the feedback, Now all I need to do is find a decent gun store around here. :) Anyways, I did have one question that I was thinking about calling the DPS about, does a sign "count" as telling you to remove your gun? and if so what are the restrictions on signs? size, all entrances, etc.

Scottsdale Thug
06-20-2007, 18:28
what sign...


...there was a sign there?

My understanding is you must be asked by the management and then if you don't leave you will get arrested for trespassing.

I think there is a new law that if the business says "No Deadly Weapons" they must have a place for you to secure it and be able to retrieve it immediately

GT Member: Sam Spade (http://glocktalk.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=25744) is a LEO here in AZ and is very knowledgeable about the laws here

blueiron
06-20-2007, 20:15
If a sign is posted, it counts.

Court rulings support it and the cops arrest for it.

blueiron
06-20-2007, 20:20
Originally posted by Scottsdale Thug

I think there is a new law that if the business says "No Deadly Weapons" they must have a place for you to secure it and be able to retrieve it immediately



See A.R.S. 13-3102.01. Storage of deadly weapons; definitions

A. If an operator of a public establishment or a sponsor of a public event requests that a person carrying a deadly weapon remove the weapon, the operator or sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the establishment or event and allow for the immediate retrieval of the weapon on exit from the establishment or event.

B. This section does not apply to the licensed premises of any public establishment or public event with a license issued pursuant to title 4.



Public event doesn't mean a White Sale at Kohl's or Dillards either.

In other words, do NOT take it into a building with a liquor license for on premise consumption.

Scottsdale Thug
06-20-2007, 22:43
1 outta 2

VictorLouis
06-21-2007, 18:00
Originally posted by Scottsdale Thug
what sign...


...there was a sign there?

My understanding is you must be asked by the management and then if you don't leave you will get arrested for trespassing.

The 'sign', no matter WHAT format it takes, is considered the same as having been asked by the owner or management.

I'm sure that there are signs that are genuinely missed. Quite frankly, I don't read anything posted on the doors of buildings once I find the bold notice of 'OPEN'. :) Ad circulars, restaurant menus, our new mandatory 'smoke-free environment' signs, hours of operation. There's enough 'eye-pollution' out there, as-is.:upeyes:

SHOULD you be found out, most business people would call it to your attention. IF they were scared, and called the cops, I can almost guarantee that the cops will merely do the management's job. That is, they'll notify you that you're in violation of that owner's wishes, and they will escort you out. You can fully expect to be disarmed, ID'ed, background-checked, etc. as a mere matter-of-routine. So, act accordingly.




I think there is a new law that if the business says "No Deadly Weapons" they must have a place for you to secure it and be able to retrieve it immediately

THAT only applies to Gov't offices, or events being held in/on buildings/land owned by the Gov't. There is currently NO TEETH in it at all, however. It's being blatantly ignored by any number of institutions, either in outright barring guns altogether, or having 'check your gun HERE' policies that don't conform to the law. The DMV offices being one of the former, and many public libraries an example of the latter.

As was recently pointed out to me, until activists begin to bring-suit to punish non-compliance, we can expect to have problems. I'm all FOR open-carry, believe me. However, I agree with the LEO that posted, and I CCW exclusively.

stlboarder
06-25-2007, 01:47
Goto Lone Wolf. It's on the NW corner of peoria and 51st. I got my 21sf there for $529. They seemed knowledgable...and last I was in there so was some eye candy carrying her ccw.:thumbsup:

Mr. Sinister
07-03-2007, 23:20
I've noticed far fewer open carrys since the '80s when I first moved out here. Now it's mostly bikers. Of course, that could be because of the growing popularity of CCW.
It's legal, but I'd recommend getting a CCW anyway, since if your shirt gets a little too low, or you put on a long jacket without thinking about it, you could get busted for carrying concealed without the permit.

VictorLouis
07-04-2007, 15:03
Bikers?

There were Hell's Angels in my last permit renewal class.:)

You never know who's packin'. That's the idea, right?

:thumbsup:

Mr. Sinister
07-04-2007, 17:07
Yes, Bikers.
The last time I saw a non-biker in metro Phoenix openly carrying outside of a gun range was 2003.

And even the bikers are carrying openly less these days. (It probably makes them more likely to get hassled by the Man).

shoottokill
07-04-2007, 19:15
ive been open carrying since i turned 18 the legal age here. and i have had the cops called on me twice. never a problem they even said sorry that we have to bother you tonight we know what you are doing is legal we just had to respond to the call and by the way. i also work slash hang out at a cigar shop all the time and in any given one night i will see one or two open carriers and five or six ccw ( and that is all the ones that i notice ie inprinting or somthing of that nature)

Azjeeper
07-08-2007, 22:47
Opened carryed in walmart yesterday no body looked twice.

Strucku
07-09-2007, 01:24
I'm taking my CCW class in Prescott on the 28th. As much as I want to carry, it's kind of an ominous thought to actually have a loaded weapon out in public. My wife and I own a lot of guns and we go to the range often, but both of us talk about how weird it will feel to actually have a weapon on us. I guess it takes some getting used to. We are both in our late 40's and have lived in AZ. for appx 8 yrs now. Being Washington natives, we were not used to the openess of the wild wild west. But it definitely appeals to us and we are looking forward to getting our CCW's.

I think my wife will use a fanny pack to carry and I'm exploring the different holster styles available to see which one suits me the best. The fella who's teaching the CCW in Prescott has a big selection holsters on hand and I'll have the opportunity to try a few. My wife's favorite gun is her G19 but her birthday is next month and I'm looking at a G26 or 27 for her. My favorite is my Kimber 1911 but I'm thinking I'll carry the G33.

This discussion has been helpful to learn more about your thoughts on CCW laws. Thanks for posting it. Our neighbor and best friend is a Gilbert sniper swat cop and a sargeant on patrol so we talk about this stuff with him all the time too.

HeGlock
08-03-2007, 21:07
Four of us are going to Gunsite next week and plan on carrying openly everywhere we go, except, when we go to dinner.

glock45acp21
08-04-2007, 09:10
I carry CCW with my G21, the main reason is so that with some of my friends I can educated them first on guns, but a little bit so I don't get hassled (never have been hassled carrying out in the open though). I do CCW for a lot of the reasons that most people posted CCW, but the least bit because I can get hassled. We need to start educating the public and one way to do that is letting them know the laws and morals behind owning a gun.

DUKE_NUKEM
08-05-2007, 15:20
I moved to AZ for the reason I could open carry. As soon as my buddy and I crossed th AZ. border in 1989 we put our pistols in a shoulder harness and did not take mine off until I move to liberal Portland Oregon in 1997. BIG MISTAKE!
Anyway, here I am Wranglers, Ropes, Bianchi Pistolero speed rig, custom 1911 Safari Arms 45, (The owners is still a buddy of mine)Outback Duster, 1 to 4 horses, saddle and pack saddles depending on if I need groceries or not, and *long hair, I mean hair like Ted Nugent down to my belt and riding down, across main street (Mesa, AJ, Goldfield) some times 2 and three times just to stop traffic (live stock has the right of way in AZ and strictly enforced)and to watch the tourist look as I was riding to Walmart.:rofl:
We used to ride to the local restraunt Kovaks Korner and have dinner, but we would have to sit outside and eat because you can't take a gun into a bank or bar. I saw cops everywhere and they never gave me a second look. We were eating there one time and the cops stoped in for some food and these tourist said: "You guys are real cowboys aren't you"? Without even looking up I said " Nope were professional gun fighters":rofl: and they left and we know the cops herd us. But these cops new us or had herd of us too.
But! But! Here's the thing, the cops out there knew if they got into some tiff with anyone and back up was miles away, my buddies and I would of been right there to back them up! 5 big well armed 6' 2" + body builder cowboys and me there to help the boys in blue oops! make the khaki.
Duke
Bad guys don't carry guns out in the open.

*I have a crew cut now that I don't wach "THE YOUNG RIDERS" anymore.


ARIZONA ROCKS!!!



.

vart
08-05-2007, 20:56
Originally posted by HeGlock
Four of us are going to Gunsite next week and plan on carrying openly everywhere we go, except, when we go to dinner.
What class are you taking?

I attended the CCW class there earlier this year and was one of 3 out of 16 that didn't use the 1911.

There was one Glock, my XD45, and some cheap 9mm that wouldn't run.

I got the tightest group of the class; embarassing the owners of $2000 1911s:tongueout:

Lately I've been packing my S&W M&P40 full-size just because it points so naturally and is the same dimension as my XD45 compact.

Azjeeper
08-06-2007, 19:49
Arizona still is great!

HeGlock
08-06-2007, 20:56
vart asked:

What class are you taking?
* General Pistol 250 (2nd time...last time in 1994)

I attended the CCW class there earlier this year and was one of 3 out of 16 that didn't use the 1911.
* In our class there are 12 Glocks, 3 1911's, 1 M&P, 2 Sigs

There was one Glock, my XD45, and some cheap 9mm that wouldn't run.
* No malfs at all on the first day by any gun. There is one extreme beginner that they've taken off to the side to work with...for everyone's safety and theirs!

I got the tightest group of the class; embarassing the owners of $2000.
* My wife and I took a CCW "Day at the range" class in June. A GLOCK won the shootoff...I know because I was shootin it! : )

There are two young uns in the class. 12yr old and a 13 yr old. Both shoot VERY WELL out of the holster. The father of one of them is in the class and he's CLEARLY been working with them. My bet is that one or both of them will be beating many of the adults in the shootoff and school drills.

glock45acp21
08-07-2007, 23:03
I need to find me another leather holster, it's a little bulky wearing a whole duty belt just to carry open. I can't seem to find my Galco holster for my g21.