View Full Version : Who's got a .45?
... and what kind is it? Glock? Some flavor of 1911? Something else?
This whole bear scare has got me rethinking "bigger is better."
If I were to meet up with Yogi - we DO take walks along the highline canal road, and saw tracks in the mud last summer - just how well would my .38 special, 9mm, or .40 fare? (I have a .357, but with a 6" barell, it's not much of a "carry" piece.)
I guess they're better than nothing, but probably not as good as a real big bore (and an S&W 500 is out of the question, thank you.)
If you've got pix, let's see 'em!
:thumbsup:
Steve Koski
06-19-2007, 15:53
Shotgun slug, 300 Win Mag, or S&W 500 Mag are good bets. 9/40/45/10mm are all going to suck. Carry heavy non expanding bullets loaded warmly, ala Double Tap's 200 gr loadings (for .40).
Originally posted by Steve Koski
(snip) heavy non expanding bullets loaded warmly, ala Double Tap's 200 gr loadings (for .40).
Where do you get those Double Taps, Steve?
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php
They're located up in SLC, so you will have to pay sales tax. But you may not have to pay shipping! They're pricey, but for the 10mm, the prices are unbeatable.
And this is what I carry in the backcountry:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=105
200 grains @ 1300FPS for a good 750 foot-pounds of power.
I had a bear incident in California. Optimally, we'd like to have a 12-gauge or a .45-70 nearby should a bear strike, but when I'm backpacking, I can't haul that kind of weight around. There's compromises in everything; to me the Model 20 with the load above is a good, lightweight, compromise to the bear/cougar/other nasties problem one may encounter in the woods.
Originally posted by RyDC
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php
They're located up in SLC, so you will have to pay sales tax. But you may not have to pay shipping!
... meaning you buy it mail order, you don't drive up there?
I could see myself buying a box of hot .40s but 9s? Hmmm... Yes, they is pricey. If they bring the ballistics performance of the 9 up so much though ... Hmmmm ...
Like my Seminary teacher tried to tell us in High School (to talk us out of steady dating): "Variety is the spice of life."
Thanks for the linky.
:thumbsup:
ElConquistador
06-20-2007, 18:17
If you're planning on shooting a bear with your 9/40/45 you had better file off your front sight first. That way after he shoves it up your a** it won't snag when you pull it out.
Have you seen the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan?? Now that's a bear gun, .454 casull/.45 LC. I want one.
That said, you have very little to worry about. This bear was out of the ordinary. You will likely never see one from closer than a quarter mile especially walking along a canal. Maybe if you were hiking through brush you could surprise one but still, they are going to be aware of you before you are aware of them and unless cornered or threatened they will take off.
Hey, why don't you just get a B&D flashlight like that guy used to save his granddaughter 15 years ago? Have you seen that story? Incredible.
Originally posted by ElConquistador
If you're planning on shooting a bear with your 9/40/45 you had better file off your front sight first. That way after he shoves it up your a** it won't snag when you pull it out.
(snip)
Hey, why don't you just get a B&D flashlight like that guy used to save his granddaughter 15 years ago? Have you seen that story? Incredible.
:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:
Ok, I'll do that right now, especially on the .38; it's got the biggest front sight, and the one I'd hate having shoved up my a** the most. (I'm still laughing :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: )
I'll go throw all my guns away right now, and start carrying my 4-"D" cell Maglight flashlight - since guns are useless.
My .45s are my G36 and an Uberti .45 Cattleman. Though if it came down to it I'd probably just shoot in the air or the ground in front of the bear and hope that alone would scare the bear away.
My 45's are 1911's and a Glock 21.
My normal camping gun is a 5in 1911, what would be the best load for that?
I wonder how well a Pocket CS grenade would handle a bear. :supergrin:
stan and
07-15-2007, 21:00
Non expert thoughts on bear protection. I've never shot a bear, but I've killed several hundred injuried animals along the highways. All with handguns in duty type calibers. 357, 38 sprc. 45 ACP, 40s&w and 357 sig. The largest and one of the first was an adult Hereford bull. He was broke down laying in the traffic lane. No amount of proding could get him up and off the road. The bull's owner asked me to shoot him. At three feet I shot him between the eyes with a 357 158 grain WW lubaloy. His reaction was to turn his head away from the blast. I nexted shot him behind the ear, at which he stood up. (the owner by then was wishing he had call a vet instead of a cop) The next shot was again in the forehead, but by luck a couple of inches higher. The bull just colapsed as if struck by lighting. Had that last shot been my first I would have left with an unrealistical view of the 357's power. As it was I learned that placement is almost everything. (light weight high speed hollow points suck) Large animals like elk or cattle likley will show little or no immediate reaction to shots from any of the above calibers, if placement is anywhere, but in the brain pan or spine.
My go for a walk gun is a G21 with LWD barrel, heavy recoil spring and 45 super brass loaded with 230 hard cast bullets. I've never shot anything with it, but rocks, trees and sheep turds.
GixxerSixxer
07-15-2007, 22:02
Originally posted by stan and
At three feet I shot him between the eyes with a 357 158 grain WW lubaloy. His reaction was to turn his head away from the blast. I nexted shot him behind the ear, at which he stood up. (the owner by then was wishing he had call a vet instead of a cop)
That was your mistake. You don't shoot cows right between the eyes because all you do is drive the bullet through their sinus cavity. Hundreds of ranchers every year do the same thing and just watch their cow blow blood out their nose while standing there looking at them. I know a vet in Spanish Fork and hear the stories every deer hunt.
Originally posted by stan and
The next shot was again in the forehead, but by luck a couple of inches higher.
That's the correct way to shoot a cow in the head. You aim higher than right between the eyes. The brain is higher up than most people think. The proper way to shoot a cow in the head is to draw an "X" in between the eyes and the horns. Then shoot in the middle of the "X".
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/man/bseesb/cow3.jpg
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/man/bseesb/cow2.jpg
In the old fashioned (and maybe still in the small family style) slaughter houses, they shoot them from above. The cow is in a chute/stall, and the killer is standing above them, usually with only a .22, right between the ears behind the "poll". They usually drop like a stone. (Where do you find pix like that, GixxerSixxer? Your old FFA handbook?)
GixxerSixxer
07-16-2007, 19:44
Originally posted by reerc
In the old fashioned (and maybe still in the small family style) slaughter houses, they shoot them from above. The cow is in a chute/stall, and the killer is standing above them, usually with only a .22, right between the ears behind the "poll". They usually drop like a stone. (Where do you find pix like that, GixxerSixxer? Your old FFA handbook?)
I'm currently working with some slaughter houses for work. I had the page those images bookmarked. I originally found the site with google. If you right click and check the properties the URL will show.
Some of the small family slaughter places I've seen use .22lr. Not always from above, some just use stand in front and use "X method". Not even copper plated HV ammo either, just Standard velocity RNL.
Shot placement does a lot when you're trying to kill something.
That diagram showing the size of a cow's brain explains a lot of my frustrations growing up on the farm.
I swear, dumb as they come. (not me, the cows) ... well, maybe me too :supergrin:
While I was going to college I was a rent a cop for a big (for Utah) cow slaughter house (I'm sure all of you have seen their trucks on the highway, probably daily) and they use a high powered air gun that shoots a metal rod into the cow's head. The stubborn ones that won't go up the chute get hit with a 22 rifle and they always dropped.
"In passing, may we suggest Millers Blue Ribbon Beef?"
ElConquistador
07-18-2007, 15:56
Originally posted by stan and
The largest and one of the first was an adult Hereford bull. He was broke down laying in the traffic lane. No amount of proding could get him up and off the road. The bull's owner asked me to shoot him. At three feet I shot him between the eyes with a 357 158 grain WW lubaloy. His reaction was to turn his head away from the blast. I nexted shot him behind the ear, at which he stood up. (the owner by then was wishing he had call a vet instead of a cop) The next shot was again in the forehead, but by luck a couple of inches higher. The bull just colapsed as if struck by lighting. Had that last shot been my first I would have left with an unrealistical view of the 357's power. As it was I learned that placement is almost everything. (light weight high speed hollow points suck) Large animals like elk or cattle likley will show little or no immediate reaction to shots from any of the above calibers, if placement is anywhere, but in the brain pan or spine.
Was this by chance when you were working for the Rhode Island Highway Patrol? :rofl:
"In passing, may we suggest Millers Blue Ribbon Beef?"
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. Thats the place, they're up in Hyrum just outside of Logan.
Originally posted by ustate
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. Thats the place, they're up in Hyrum just outside of Logan.
Used to see the trucks a lot more than I do now. Spent seven (or eight?) years getting a four year degree (hey, a guy's gotta have fun, right?), then a Masters at USU in Logan, so I'm pretty familiar with "Happy Valley", love the place to death. Was always impressed with how clean those trucks were - the cleanest 18-wheelers on the road.
Side note, sad about the illegal immigration trouble that Hyrum plant just went through. I just read about someone being charged for selling false IDs to the illegals. Luckily, the plant and the HR folks there have come out clean.
It was sad to see the illegal immigrant problems they went through but I wasn't surprised when it happened. Although I left Cache Valley after I graduated USU back in '98 even back then there were a lot of illegals working there. I asked one of the workers (he was from one of the Central American countries, don't remember which one) and he did tell me that there were lots of phoney ID cards there and that those cards were very easy to find.
Also I was told about .45 Super a while back, it uses cases with more support at the bottom and it’s suppose to be more powerful than +P.
From what it looks like, all you need is a 21+ pound recoil spring?
The stuff is pricy though.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=416011
Arc Angel
07-19-2007, 16:35
Originally posted by ustate
My .45s are my G36 and an Uberti .45 Cattleman. Though if it came down to it I'd probably just shoot in the air or the ground in front of the bear and hope that alone would scare the bear away. Wise words! ;)
:) Yup, I'd also suggest a 45 Super and the heaviest FMJ ammo I could get my hands on. (This setup will outperform a 10mm!) All of my reloaded 45 acp brass is already in 45 Super cases, anyway. All I've got to do is add a 22# recoil spring; and, I'm good to go.
For a, 'last ditch' stand, a 45 Super should be good enough for, say, the black bears; however, I'm not comfortable with having to use any pistol on one of their big brown cousins, though.
Still, it's got' a be better than trying to use a 357 - right! :wow:
(A longer barrel, also, helps!) ;)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/Me_2U/GlockModel214-1.jpg
Cool, thanks for the input and the picture.
I think I'll try that out, is that just a 5in barrel?
Do you have a good source for 45Super brass?
Or a better price on the ammo? :)
Steve Koski
07-19-2007, 17:36
http://www.starlinebrass.com/
45 SUPER
$ 92.05 per 500
$163.55 per 1000
I believe these prices include shipping.
Awesome, thank you sir. :)
Arc Angel
07-19-2007, 20:23
Originally posted by Gibbles
Cool, thanks for the input and the picture.
I think I'll try that out, is that just a 5in barrel?
Do you have a good source for 45Super brass?
Or a better price on the ammo? :) :) Like Koski said: Starline is about the best deal you're going to find right now.
The barrel is Bar-Sto, 5 1/8" overall, and protrudes 1/2" from the front of the slide. It dissipates recoil by, maybe, 10%; cuts down on front sight dwell time; and gives faster follow-ups. It might be my imagination; but, it seems like the bullets actually hit harder when I'm using this barrel.
Anyway, I couldn't be more pleased with it. :thumbsup:
tyger006
07-28-2007, 09:11
Personally, I don't think that a .45 would offer you a large advantage over a .40 when dealing with a black bear. I am not saying that there may not be an advantage with the .45, but I don't think it would be huge.
Others on this forum have often questioned what the 'best' bear protection would be, and many of the people who live in heavy black bear country don't feel underarmed with a .40 or 9mm. Personally, I feel that the .40 is enough, especially if that is what you are used to shooting and carrying.
Really the problem lies with all the many factors that play into a real-life scenario. As mentioned with the story of trying to put down the Bull above, sometimes things just don't work out the way you expect them to. I have personally watched a .44 Mag and a
.30-30 Bounce off of a steer's forhead(One of my knuckled-headed distant relatives from Enterprise was the shooter). Not perhaps the most powerfull cartridges available to the modern shooter, but better than the .45 or .40 by a long shot.
Lots of old timers talk about taking deer with thier .22's and yet I remember shooting a jackrabbit through with my G21 Hydra-shoks at 12ft away and watching it run off as if nothing had happened. shot it again at aprox 30 yards and put it down, upon inspection, two holes- the first looked like a .22 though. But a jackrabbit! Vs a .45! Not what I expected. What am I trying to say? Real-life results are not as clear-cut as we may expect, choose your caliber, get proficent with it, and most importantly, have it with you.
-Tyger-
Ps. Just be glad we arn't like my crazy Great-Grand-Uncle who would follow cougar into their dens with a .22 and either candles or a small lantern! Perhaps a way to prove you have serious stones-perhaps just crazy.:shocked:
That’s nuts’ I shot a jack with Wal-Mart special FMJ and it dropped dead like god came down and took its little bunny sole with one solid swipe. I took another jack with my P22 square in the chest with mini mags, and it just went stiff and fell over like a board, .223 through the rear and it jumped up and looked like when you shake a rug, and it landed dead. (All under 50 yards)
For a bear, I would really want a rifle, but I don’t usually camp with my Carbine, I would take a 10mm over a .45 for sure, I don’t own a .44 or a .500, but I would feel better with one of those. .45 super sounds very interesting though, but I’m still putting a high power revolver on my list, the problem is I like to shoot my guns, and I don’t want something that’s going to hurt to shoot.
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