imprint of firearm being carried considered displayed and exposed to public view? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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boni
06-22-2007, 09:57
mga sir, tanong ako ulit hehe. kasi nag susurf ako and i read and tried to analyz mga sir ung sinabi na sa phils, guns can be carried if my ptcfor but limited to concealed carry. tapos ive read sa ibang country esp u.s. eh imprint lng daw considered na displaying your f/a. sagot naman ng mga nakakatanda ito eh "so what kung naka imprint? eh naka conceal naman d ba?" hehe btw ty in advance. :)

saki1611
06-22-2007, 11:24
pre just my two cents...

from the word conceal itself it means to prevent something or someone from being known or to keep it secret. so if it's imprinted on the shirt when tucked in the waist, it's not concealing anymore. actually even in our local ptc, one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters. even with cops actually we're being discouraged to do such practice unless on operations or in uniform.

ilocano
06-22-2007, 12:12
Originally posted by saki1611
pre just my two cents...

from the word conceal itself it means to prevent something or someone from being known or to keep it secret. so if it's imprinted on the shirt when tucked in the waist, it's not concealing anymore. actually even in our local ptc, one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters. even with cops actually we're being discouraged to do such practice unless on operations or in uniform.

I once read that "concealed" would mean " not seen in plain view". Imprint on the otherhand can be tricky- - does this fall under "not seen in plain view"???

PMMA97
06-22-2007, 17:48
Originally posted by saki1611
actually even in our local ptc, one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters.

I did not know this.
I think it would be very hard to draw.
Are clutchbag draws included in IPSC/IDPA?

Found this on the net;

The permit is non-transferable. The firearm will also not be displayed or exposed to public view.The firearm shall not be carried inside drinking places,cabarets,public dance halls, public amusement places, or while attending civic, political or religious rallies and meetings.The license or authority to possess the firearm shall always be carried with this permit. Violation of any of the above shall invalidate the PTCFOR and the licensee may be charged.

Ano yung cabaret? :supergrin:

jimbullet
06-22-2007, 18:00
I believe there are no matches available that draws from a clutch bag but there are scenarios that draw from your gun case. So I guess, this should be a good alternative already.

There is a fine line whether it may be classified as no longer concealed if your FA is imprinted. I would suggest however that you do your best not to make itself known since this will open you for possible questioning by LEO's and secondly, this will also make the BG's know that you have a gun and be prepared for it.

vega
06-22-2007, 18:20
Originally posted by saki1611
pre just my two cents...

from the word conceal itself it means to prevent something or someone from being known or to keep it secret. so if it's imprinted on the shirt when tucked in the waist, it's not concealing anymore. actually even in our local ptc, one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters. even with cops actually we're being discouraged to do such practice unless on operations or in uniform.
+1
The problem with some people, they really want to let others know that they are carrying.

TTPower
06-22-2007, 19:46
Originally posted by vega
+1
The problem with some people, they really want to let others know that they are carrying.

+1
one time i was in a grill restaurant i saw 2 guys in a table i'm not sure if they were cops or security escorts but i could tell that they were carrying. it was so obvious because the 1st guy i think was using a duty holster not a concealed holster and even if his shirt was a bit loose u could tell. the other guy was even more obvious because his shirt was a bit small for him i could even tell his was carrying a full size 1911.

if i was a bad guy... they wouldn't stand a chance! i bet they won't even see me coming.

chowchow
06-22-2007, 20:16
Kung undercover agents man yun hindi na. If they are not plainclothes which is obvious, then pangpasikat na lang yun sa kapwa.
Kung meyrong NPA hitman around, baka matarget pa sila.:laughabove:

isuzu
06-22-2007, 21:09
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Are there places in the US that does not want people to conceal weapons (if you don't have a CCW); instead they want people to expose the weapons in plain view i.e., ranchers who have gun racks in their trucks and ATVs, and holster their revolvers/pistols.

TTPower
06-23-2007, 02:31
Originally posted by isuzu
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Are there places in the US that does not want people to conceal weapons (if you don't have a CCW); instead they want people to expose the weapons in plain view i.e., ranchers who have gun racks in their trucks and ATVs, and holster their revolvers/pistols.

i think in arizona u can carry firearms even without a permit as long as its not concealed. if u want to carry ur firearm concealed, u have to secure a CCW permit. that's how gun friendly arizona is :)

kcboy
06-23-2007, 04:53
is carring IWB, really not allowed for our PTCFOR?

userfriendly
06-23-2007, 05:23
is carring IWB, really not allowed for our PTCFOR?

Di pa talaga pwede? Back when PTC was affordable, I used to carry IWB.

BTW, 10K nga ba ang PTC ngayon?

chowchow
06-23-2007, 05:52
CHL dito dapat hindi makikita. Pero kung may printing puede karin mareport, and ma introuble ka pa like fines and license suspended.
Open carry ok kung nasa sariling lugar mo but still practice discretion. If you have a larger acreage of land, kahit mag ATV ka at naka slung ng AK or AR mo walang problema. But no firing of weapons unless u have a minimum of 10 acres (2.47 acres per one hectare). A good backstop is a must bec bullets can go a long way. Liability is a big factor if you have to hit someone then negligent homicide will end it all.

jimbullet
06-23-2007, 08:54
Frankly, I havent seen that in the restrictions on the PTC...unless its in the law...

saki1611
06-23-2007, 09:43
this is the only site i can find:

http://www.pbdionisio.com/firearmlaw.html

read section 6, paragraph c:manner of carrying of firearms

royal glockster
06-23-2007, 10:01
Originally posted by vega
+1
The problem with some people, they really want to let others know that they are carrying.

Agree! some people (mostly untrained) have this "bragging rights syndrome" once they got their PTCs..:supergrin:

PMMA97
06-23-2007, 17:31
But if you were a BG intending to pounce on someone on a spur of a moment kind of criminality ie; hold up or trip trip lang, who would you target?

A known would be victim who is obviously packing or a soft target whom you know does not have any weapon on him?

Just asking guys. :)

jimbullet
06-23-2007, 20:14
There are a lot of variables and the what if's come to play. What if the BG was really intending to hit on you may the BG be high on drugs, it doesnt matter whether you are packing a pistol or not for him, but rather he comes to you prepared based on his assessment on how much defense you can do.

If the BG knows you have a gun, then even armed with a knife, he can make his attack based on how he assesses you. Hold ups are the same, they would have the element of surprise. Why not counter this by surprising them as well.

Of course there are ways that you can project that you are not a soft target at all even if you do not instigate that you have an FA.

vega
06-23-2007, 21:56
I believe IWB is allowed unless it's printing.
Not allowed if:
4) The practice of flagrantly displaying a firearm or tucking it at the waist while in uniform or in civilian clothes is prohibited.
The word "flagrantly" says it all.

Tuck away then.

PMMA97
06-23-2007, 22:56
Originally posted by jimbullet
Of course there are ways that you can project that you are not a soft target at all even if you do not instigate that you have an FA.

Reminds me of an old Marine joke;

If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.

The question is, how? :supergrin:

kcboy
06-24-2007, 06:01
Originally posted by vega
I believe IWB is allowed unless it's printing.
Not allowed if:
4) The practice of flagrantly displaying a firearm or tucking it at the waist while in uniform or in civilian clothes is prohibited.
The word "flagrantly" says it all.

Tuck away then.


for me, if i were to use an iwb holster, then this provision will not be violeted.:rofl:

saki1611
06-24-2007, 06:24
Originally posted by vega
I believe IWB is allowed unless it's printing.
Not allowed if:
4) The practice of flagrantly displaying a firearm or tucking it at the waist while in uniform or in civilian clothes is prohibited.
The word "flagrantly" says it all.

Tuck away then.

just take note on the word "or", the "flagrantly" refers to the displaying of firearms. the way i understand it there are two prohibitions, no.1 "flagrantly displaying of firearms" or no.2 "tucking at the waist while in uniform or in civilian clothes." well i'm pointing this out not to deter your style of carries neither to start an argument but to just give you warning on the possible scenario if cops will question you. i may be wrong, yet it's your risk... ;)

riddler
06-24-2007, 08:06
If one does not want his/her carry gun to be noticed, there are ways to conceal it in his/her person without compromising the ability to quickly deploy it.

The problem is some don't really want "not to be noticed". Some are just plain MAYABANG!!!

9MX
06-24-2007, 08:49
Originally posted by vega
+1
The problem with some people, they really want to let others know that they are carrying.

so that's why pogi would always stuff rolls of tissue paper in his pants pag may lakad..:animlol:

asian_glockster
06-24-2007, 09:12
imprint?? hindi po baril yan, celfone po ito.....

vega
06-24-2007, 09:21
Originally posted by 9MX
so that's why pogi would always stuff rolls of tissue paper in his pants pag may lakad..:animlol:
Kaso sa tapat yata ng zipper niya nilalagay yung tissue kasama ang roll para tama ang printing. :supergrin:

boni
06-24-2007, 10:05
Originally posted by saki1611
pre just my two cents...

from the word conceal itself it means to prevent something or someone from being known or to keep it secret. so if it's imprinted on the shirt when tucked in the waist, it's not concealing anymore. actually even in our local ptc, one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters. even with cops actually we're being discouraged to do such practice unless on operations or in uniform.

what do you mean local ptc sir? btw medyo bago sakin yung IWB at OWB term sir pwede pa clarify din? btw thank you sa mga reply sir.:)
i asked our professor in criminal procedure and also a senior prosecutor and i'm quite satisfied naman. hehehe accdg to him no provision na dapat sa bag. yun kasi dinidiscus nya sa class eh bout policemen acting with mere suspicion only, not reasonable suspicion eh lamang basura yung kaso ng illegal possesion sa mga arrest at search na invalid at mga unlicensed f/a that becomes inadmissible as evidence etc etc etc. i thot gud timing ito matanong nga. mahabang usapan but to him for as long as yung civilian has the legal authority to carry his firearm pwede nya i-Carry yun sa holster. and for as long as hindi in full view it satisfies daw yung requirement ng concealed carry. conclusion ko naman masyadong gray areas talaga. so avoid nalng ako mga fitting and or translucent shirt. :) hehe (ma invite nga si sir sa glock talk)hehe :banana: additional na lng tanong pahabol. nag rereenactment kasi kami last time sa klas eh sabihin natin tayo lahat pulis dito so you see a bulge better yet imprint ng F/A sa waist ng isang civilian. assume civilian. and true nga F/A yun so you make sita ba asking for the legal authority. so what if meron nga ptc then what sir? i-arrest pa rin kasi flagrantly displaying and exposing his F/A in public? :)

9MX
06-24-2007, 10:10
Originally posted by saki1611
one of the provisions is to place the gun in a (clutch) bag and not on the waist whether with iwb or owb holsters. even with cops actually we're being discouraged to do such practice unless on operations or in uniform.

ito ba ay nasusulat? saan? basa...bilis!:wavey:

PMMA97
06-24-2007, 18:17
Originally posted by boni
additional na lng tanong pahabol. nag rereenactment kasi kami last time sa klas eh sabihin natin tayo lahat pulis dito so you see a bulge better yet imprint ng F/A sa waist ng isang civilian. assume civilian. and true nga F/A yun so you make sita ba asking for the legal authority. so what if meron nga ptc then what sir? i-arrest pa rin kasi flagrantly displaying and exposing his F/A in public? :)

For Petes sake better make sita :supergrin: and ask for a valid ptcfor kasi it's for the safety of the general public.

Then if he has a valid ptc then it's up to you kasi nga gray area kamo but I would rather verify the authenticity of his ptc at the precint hence the term, "sa presinto ka na magpaliwanag" :)

saki1611
06-24-2007, 18:18
Originally posted by boni
what do you mean local ptc sir? btw medyo bago sakin yung IWB at OWB term sir pwede pa clarify din? btw thank you sa mga reply sir.:)
i asked our professor in criminal procedure and also a senior prosecutor and i'm quite satisfied naman. hehehe accdg to him no provision na dapat sa bag. yun kasi dinidiscus nya sa class eh bout policemen acting with mere suspicion only, not reasonable suspicion eh lamang basura yung kaso ng illegal possesion sa mga arrest at search na invalid at mga unlicensed f/a that becomes inadmissible as evidence etc etc etc. i thot gud timing ito matanong nga. mahabang usapan but to him for as long as yung civilian has the legal authority to carry his firearm pwede nya i-Carry yun sa holster. and for as long as hindi in full view it satisfies daw yung requirement ng concealed carry. conclusion ko naman masyadong gray areas talaga. so avoid nalng ako mga fitting and or translucent shirt. :) hehe (ma invite nga si sir sa glock talk)hehe :banana: additional na lng tanong pahabol. nag rereenactment kasi kami last time sa klas eh sabihin natin tayo lahat pulis dito so you see a bulge better yet imprint ng F/A sa waist ng isang civilian. assume civilian. and true nga F/A yun so you make sita ba asking for the legal authority. so what if meron nga ptc then what sir? i-arrest pa rin kasi flagrantly displaying and exposing his F/A in public? :)

local ptc, i mean ptc's issued in the philippines, IWB (inside the waist band) and owb (outside the waist band)

well i might be wrong about the bag, but as i have quoted the provisions about the manner of carrying your firearms, it is prohibited to tuck the firearms in the waist. therefore, if you can not tuck the firearms in your waist, then where/what is the best possible solution?

about your next question, yes police that knows this provision can arrest you for the violation of such, i myself will arrest you when you go to makati, pero sabihin mo lang BOG ka patakbuhin na kita.:supergrin: your firearm can even be confiscated and be forwarded to FED office, you might not be criminal liable but your ptc could possibly revoke. it's a light offense, you may drop names for you to be given special consideration but yet abala pa rin. as i've said again i might be wrong, it's up to your guts to take the risk...

ngoe 9mx, Sec. 6, paragraph C.

http://www.pbdionisio.com/firearmlaw.html

9MX
06-24-2007, 18:30
Originally posted by saki1611

ngoe 9mx, Sec. 6, paragraph C.

http://www.pbdionisio.com/firearmlaw.html

its very broad, this is how i understand it:

1. tucked in waist and exposed to the public is not allowed
2. you can conceal it any which way you want, basta concealed.

si pogi should stop using those tisse paper rolls, wa epek pag talon niya sa swimming pool:animlol:

saki1611
06-24-2007, 18:41
Originally posted by 9MX
its very broad, this is how i understand it:

1. tucked in waist and exposed to the public is not allowed
2. you can conceal it any which way you want, basta concealed.

si pogi should stop using those tisse paper rolls, wa epek pag talon niya sa swimming pool:animlol:

up to you...:upeyes: gusto mo try natin?:animlol:

choi_tan2000
06-24-2007, 20:17
sana mareview na itong ptc or firearms law ntin and ilagay na sa practical side mga bro. mukhang sobrang luma na kasi ng law natin about FA and FA handling..

kasi "cabaret" pa eh diba eh ngaun "spa" or bar na ang uso hehehheheheh
diba po yung cabaret yung may mga ticket pa hehehehe

ppts799
06-24-2007, 20:39
on the question bawal ba ang imprint?

based on the seminar i took, YES. sabi ng police speaker, responsibility ng owner to make sure concealed well yung pistol.

o diba, nagattend pa ako ng required seminar ;)

isuzu
06-24-2007, 20:59
Originally posted by vega
+1
The problem with some people, they really want to let others know that they are carrying.

Simply kayabangan and a sign of insecurity, BIG TIME. And it defeats the element of surprise. His threats will do two things: either back down, or be more prepared to counter him.

Happened during the late 90's. I was at Hahn at SM Megamall looking at their guns and beside me was a guy with a beautiful girlfriend. When he found a Ruger P series pistol displayed inside the counter, he pulled out his gun and said: "parehas silang dalawa, ano?" He was probably trying to impress his girlfriend, which she didn't like at all. It startled a lot of people, including myself.

His girlfriend was red-faced, and the manager and two guards approached him and asked him to leave the store. Mall guards were waiting for him as he was being led out of the store.

He could have lost his PTC since it violated the provision of not displaying a firearm in public view, and bringing it in malls/shopping centers.

9MX
06-24-2007, 21:12
Originally posted by saki1611
up to you...:upeyes: gusto mo try natin?:animlol:

ano na naman ang itatry natin? maglagay ng tissue roll kay pogi? ikaw na lang:tongueout:

charlie-xray
06-25-2007, 00:18
Bottomline, PTC won't serve you well if you're in the urban area where malls and restos are 500meters or less from each other due to all of this places are NOT ALLOWED. But this are mostly all the places an urban person goes to, don't tell me you'd hang-out in the side streets of meralco avenue or ayala???

So PTC would just be useful if you plan to dwell in say farm, forest, luneta, even risky in roxas boulevard so what's the USE??? :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

jimbullet
06-25-2007, 00:24
You have to understand that its not because the law is old wherein you cant carry it inside certain public buildings but rather was a result of persuasions made by gunless society (nandy pacheco) a few years back. He was successful in doing a lot of media hype where those who had guns are criminals - period.

He was quite successful in lobbying that led to these restrictions. These were not present mind you during the 80's. - Btw, Im not that old okay...just a witness to the history of the evolution of our ptc and strict gun laws.

vega
06-25-2007, 06:53
Kailan ba na-uso ang clutch bag? I think it was during Marcos time when his bodyguards were wearing Barong. And those bags were in vougue those years. Like choi said, luma na and it does not cope up with present times. Saan nga ba may cabaret ngayon?

So PTC would just be useful if you plan to dwell in say farm, Why not just open carry if you own the farm. I believe si doc tabako naka open carry with his Ruger 44 whenever he goes to his plantation.

charlie-xray
06-25-2007, 07:14
Originally posted by vega
Why not just open carry if you own the farm. I believe si doc tabako naka open carry with his Ruger 44 whenever he goes to his plantation.

That's my point people don't dwell most of the time in the farm, but in urban centers and establishments. So a PTC is USEFUL when you get caught and utterly USELESS when you don't get caught.

So it's a case of Damned if you DO and Damned if you DON'T.

boni
06-25-2007, 07:28
Originally posted by saki1611
pero sabihin mo lang BOG ka patakbuhin na kita.:supergrin: hehehe;):thumbsup:

mikol
06-25-2007, 09:21
Originally posted by 9MX
ito ba ay nasusulat? saan? basa...bilis!:wavey:
mannix makikita mo yung sinasabi ni sakii sa M.O. not the PTC Lic. Card.
Confidential agents are reminded always to carry their FA sa clutch bag and other concealment bags but not IWB or OWB.
And ammos also are designated kung ilang rounds ang pwede mo lang dalhin.
Kalimitan din naman kasi when ask by a Police officer & you show your corresponding docs as an "Confidential Agent" ayos na yun.

Nasa sa tao nalang talaga kung papaano niya dadalhin ang kanyang sarili when it comes to CCW. di ka naman tatanungin ng pulis kung talagang maayos ang iyong pagdala ng FA di ba? ;) ;)

tama ba ako bosing sakii? :supergrin:

saki1611
06-25-2007, 18:21
Originally posted by mikol
mannix makikita mo yung sinasabi ni sakii sa M.O. not the PTC Lic. Card.
Confidential agents are reminded always to carry their FA sa clutch bag and other concealment bags but not IWB or OWB.
And ammos also are designated kung ilang rounds ang pwede mo lang dalhin.
Kalimitan din naman kasi when ask by a Police officer & you show your corresponding docs as an "Confidential Agent" ayos na yun.

Nasa sa tao nalang talaga kung papaano niya dadalhin ang kanyang sarili when it comes to CCW. di ka naman tatanungin ng pulis kung talagang maayos ang iyong pagdala ng FA di ba? ;) ;)

tama ba ako bosing sakii? :supergrin:

yup. now i remember where i read it, but still the general rule is law enforcers and civilians with ptc's are prohibited in tucking their fa's unless on official duty, necessary and on operations. since that provision is very broad it will depend to the interpretations of an individual. civilians might interpret it in their favor, but from the policeman's point of view it will not. sa akin ok lang for as long as you have the papers and your presence in the area is legitimate that will be fine. pero kung yun iba pulis personalin ka, naku po laking abala
!

basta pagdating sa pagbitbit ng baril wag mo unahan ang pulis, kundi yari ka! ang mayabang galit sa kapwa mayabang...:supergrin:

mikol
06-25-2007, 22:29
Originally posted by saki1611
basta pagdating sa pagbitbit ng baril wag mo unahan ang pulis, kundi yari ka! ang mayabang galit sa kapwa mayabang...:supergrin:
basta't pagka-nasita ka ng pulis, sumagot ka lang ng maayos at ipakita ang iyong PTC or MO/MR at ayos na yun. :thumbsup:
bastat mababa lang ang boses(wag pasigaw) at wag arogante ang dating siguradong wala kang problema sa kanila. :)

jerrytrini
06-25-2007, 23:40
IMHO, the only way to conceal a firearm without any imprint on your clothing is use of an ankle holster.

KevlarSix
06-26-2007, 05:34
Originally posted by jerrytrini
IMHO, the only way to conceal a firearm without any imprint on your clothing is use of an ankle holster.

Also a wallet holster. A belly band holster works quite well too.

mikol
06-26-2007, 08:16
Originally posted by KevlarSix
A belly band holster works quite well too.
but not to those who have "natural belly bond" already.
mahirap huminga at lalong nagmumukhang buntis tinganan yung chubby na. :supergrin: ;) ;)

saki1611
06-26-2007, 08:51
Originally posted by jerrytrini
IMHO, the only way to conceal a firearm without any imprint on your clothing is use of an ankle holster.

+1 :thumbsup: , i agree. pwede rin belt bag, during 70' and 80's di pa uso yun! syempre, maxpedition!

9MX
06-26-2007, 09:12
Originally posted by saki1611
+1 :thumbsup: , i agree. pwede rin belt bag, during 70' and 80's di pa uso yun! syempre, maxpedition!

ows? sige nga, i-ankle holster mo yang para mo, tapos suot mo:supergrin:



ba't bigla kong naalala ang soundbyte ni PGMA sa DZMM, walang manyayari...:rofl:

jerrytrini
06-26-2007, 09:55
Just do not use your ankle holster while in shorts.:banana:

jerrytrini
06-26-2007, 09:59
From concealment, the fastest draw would be from the small of your back (unholstered). Yun nga lang, hindi naka tucked in ang shirt mo. Next to SOB draw would be from a vest with Velcro closure. Marami dito ang may suot niyan. Go to coronadoleather.com

pogi
06-26-2007, 17:46
Originally posted by 9MX
so that's why pogi would always stuff rolls of tissue paper in his pants pag may lakad..:animlol:

Langya buhay ire! Kaya pala nasasamid ako parati...INUULAM NYO NA NAMAN AKO NI SAKI.

Pati tuloy si Vega nasasali.

BTW, those are NOT rolls of tissue papers.
THAT'S ORIGINAL!

9MX
06-26-2007, 20:12
Originally posted by pogi
Langya buhay ire! Kaya pala nasasamid ako parati...INUULAM NYO NA NAMAN AKO NI SAKI.

Pati tuloy si Vega nasasali.

BTW, those are NOT rolls of tissue papers.
THAT'S ORIGINAL!

oo nga, hindi nga tissue paper.original...original na pambalot ng siomai..tapos papakain mo sa amin,kaya pala libre...pwe!

Darna
06-26-2007, 23:08
Originally posted by 9MX
oo nga, hindi nga tissue paper.original...original na pambalot ng siomai..tapos papakain mo sa amin,kaya pala libre...pwe!

mannix,saki, masyado nyo naman inaapi lolo pogi ko!:supergrin: :laughabove: :animlol: :rofl:

saki1611
06-27-2007, 07:32
Originally posted by Darna
mannix,saki, masyado nyo naman inaapi lolo pogi ko!:supergrin: :laughabove: :animlol: :rofl:

di ako kasama dyan ha! si mannix, mannix, mannix!

Wp.22
06-27-2007, 18:00
pero pag si saki di halata kahit full size na 1911 natatakpan kasi ng bilbil hehehe peace brother.

saki1611
06-27-2007, 19:35
Originally posted by Wp.22
pero pag si saki di halata kahit full size na 1911 natatakpan kasi ng bilbil hehehe peace brother.

pot, malapit ka na rin gumaling sa CCW (concealed chubby waistline)! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Wp.22
06-28-2007, 00:52
Originally posted by saki1611
pot, malapit ka na rin gumaling sa CCW (concealed chubby waistline)! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

malapit na talaga sinubukan ko yung g19 ko mexican style para lang cellphone yung imprnt.

jerrytrini
06-28-2007, 09:00
One thing about the Mexican carry, the top end rests against the skin prone to corrosion. On the other hand if holstered, the draw should be practiced and trouser waistline, let out.