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Fungunner
06-23-2007, 07:22
Hefty Fees In Store for Misbehaving Va. Drivers

By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 23, 2007; A01



Attention Virginians: The cost of bad driving is about to go up. Way up.

Say you are driving 78 mph on the Capital Beltway and a state trooper tickets you for "reckless driving -- speeding 20 mph over." You will probably be fined $200 by the judge. But then you will receive a new, additional $1,050 fine from the Old Dominion, payable in three convenient installments. So convenient that you must pay the first one immediately, at the courthouse.

First-time drunk driver? A $300 fine from the judge and a $2,250 fee from the commonwealth.

Driving without a license? Maybe a $75 fine. Definitely a $900 fee from Virginia.

As part of the plan to fund the annual $1 billion transportation package approved this year, state legislators endorsed a new set of "civil remedial fees" for all misdemeanor and felony traffic violations, such as speeding 20 mph above the limit, reckless driving and, in some cases, driving with faulty brakes. Drivers with points on their licenses -- a speeding ticket usually earns four points -- will be hit for $75 for every point above eight and $100 for having that many points in the first place.

The new fees will go into effect July 1, and defense attorneys, prosecutors and judges expect chaos. Court clerks fear having to deal with angry hordes learning about the fees for the first time at the payment window.

"I think that we will be overwhelmed," said Nancy L. Lake, clerk of the Fairfax County General District Court, which includes the busiest traffic court in the state. "We feel we're going to take a lot of flack."

The fees will be imposed only on Virginia residents. All defendants must pay the fines, but the "abuser fees," as Del. David B. Albo (R-Fairfax) calls them, are part of the state licensing fees and cannot be imposed on out-of-state drivers.

Standard traffic infractions, such as low-level speeding and running a stop sign, do not carry the fees. The state courts posted the fees and eligible offenses this month.

Albo and Del. Thomas D. Rust (R-Fairfax), who co-sponsored the fee legislation, project that $65 million to $120 million will be raised annually to cover costs of snow removal, pothole repair and grass-mowing. Money for Northern Virginia's congested roads had to come from somewhere, they reasoned, and new taxes were not going to fly in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates.

The people who will be caught up in the new fees say the first wave of chaos will hit in early August, when the first tickets issued under the new law arrive in courthouses.

Traffic court judges fear they will see a huge increase in trials, with defendants unwilling to plead guilty because they know they will face additional fees.

Prosecutors say that in addition to possibly handling more trials, judges might suspend fines they usually impose, knowing that a heavier civil fee awaits. The money from fines will go to county governments, which could then face a decline in revenue. Funds from the new fees will go to the state.

Defense attorneys say the new fees will unfairly burden the poor because they will not be able to pay them, will lose their licenses and possibly their jobs, and then will face tickets for unlicensed driving, which would lead to jail time.

Michael S. Davis, a veteran Fairfax defense attorney, said he plans to file a legal challenge to the fees the first time he encounters them. "If somebody from out of state does not have to pay the same price," Davis said, "I think there's clearly an equal-protection issue" under the U.S. Constitution.

Albo said he would agree with that view if the fee were imposed as criminal punishment. "But it's not," he said. "It's a variable registration fee based on the lousiness of your record. We're giving people with good driving records a reduction in their fee. And we can't charge a registration fee on people from New York flying through Virginia."

Lead-footed drivers should not hold their breath waiting for the legal challenge. Davis said it would have to plow through the state's administrative process before making it to the courts and would be followed by levels of appeals. It would take years.

The fees were included in a larger package passed by the General Assembly to try to address the burgeoning congestion across the state. When Albo and Rust submitted the fee proposals as legislation by themselves in previous years, they were shot down.

"My job as a delegate is to make people slow down and build some roads," Albo said. "This bill does both."

Rust and Albo said New Jersey imposes similar fees to great effect. New Jersey was "pretty convinced it improved safety on the roads," Rust said.

New Jersey calls the fees "surcharges" and raises about $130 million from them annually, Cathleen Lewis, state motor vehicle agency spokeswoman, said. The money is not specifically earmarked for transportation and has been collected since 1983. The number of points drivers have accrued has decreased since 1983, Lewis said, but there is no study linking the decrease directly to the surcharges. New Jersey charges all drivers, not just residents.

And most of New Jersey's surcharges are much smaller: $100 for driving without a license, compared with $900 in Virginia. But a first conviction for driving while intoxicated in New Jersey brings a $3,000 hit vs. $2,250 in Virginia.

In Virginia, the fee can be paid over three years. After the first third is paid at the courthouse, the other two are to be billed by the state Department of Motor Vehicles. DMV officials have not determined how that will work, a spokeswoman said.

Faced with the prospect of financially poorer drivers losing their licenses when they cannot pay a fee, judges might start suspending part or all of the original fines, Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney Randolph S. Sengel said. The result "might be increased transportation funding offset by decreased general fund revenue," he said.

"For someone who's living near the poverty line, or even making $30,000," said Fairfax public defender Todd G. Petit, fees of $1,000 or more might have "a significant impact," and failure to pay them might lead to losing a license, a job and income. "These appear to be punitive measures that are being hidden in civil fees. If we gave the judges discretion to do what is necessary and proportionate, then we can raise the money without disproportionately affecting the poor."

Lawyers said that more defendants will hire lawyers than before, that the lawyers will charge more money because the stakes are higher and that more cases will be appealed to circuit courts.

"It's basically the Lawyer Full Employment Act," cracked one Fairfax lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he stands to benefit from the new law.

But, Albo said: "it's basically a voluntary tax. If you don't commit a crime on the streets, or run up a huge amount of points, you don't pay anything. We believe its main effect will be to get people to stop driving like maniacs."

Jerseycitysteve
06-23-2007, 07:53
Anybody who drives 78 mph on the Washington beltway, deserves a public flogging. A fine is a mercy.

Listen up: Virginia needs roads. Either we raise taxes or increase fees. I don't see the problem.

alien-Glocker
06-24-2007, 11:26
Well they certainly have this part right:

"It's basically the Lawyer Full Employment Act"

At least the cops in Northern Virginia have a sense of humor, although some what black.... I don't drive I-66 out side the beltway much any more due to work location change, but I used to regularly see an unmarked car with the license plates that said

" R U DUI".

Then again if you are its probably to late!

DragonRider
06-24-2007, 14:17
Was it a White Impala, I don't believe its a State Vehicle, based on the look of the driver and inside. It looked to be a former unmarked car from somewhere. Still has the white light and antenna on it. No other lights on it. I saw it last week on 66/Toll Road.

John

SocomCen
06-24-2007, 14:32
What happened to 'equal protection under the law?', this fine only applies to VA residents.

USMC_G19
06-25-2007, 09:52
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Anybody who drives 78 mph on the Washington beltway, deserves a public flogging. A fine is a mercy.


Mercy?? You must not drive around the beltway too much. If you aren't doing at least 70 they'll run you over!

USMC_G19
06-25-2007, 09:53
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Anybody who drives 78 mph on the Washington beltway, deserves a public flogging. A fine is a mercy.


Mercy?? You must not drive around the beltway too much. If you aren't doind at least 70 they'll run over your *****!!

Carlitos
06-25-2007, 10:02
Originally posted by SocomCen
What happened to 'equal protection under the law?', this fine only applies to VA residents.

Good point. This one may be struck down - if anyone challenges it.

Only worthwhile part is increasing the penalty for "driving without a license" since few illegal aliens bother with licenses (or insurance) but they all drive (at least the ones I spoke with who told me they were illegal aliens).

Of course, if you snuck into the USA accross the border and are not supposed to be here anyway, would you be considered a "VA Resident" for purpose of the fine?

Jerseycitysteve
06-25-2007, 12:37
Originally posted by USMC_G19
Mercy?? You must not drive around the beltway too much. If you aren't doind at least 70 they'll run over your *****!!


You are correct. I always exceed the speed limit and drive 60 to 65 otherwise I'd have to drive on the shoulder.

Perhaps a few thousand dollar fines will do the trick for those who exceed 75 MPH. Driving that fast on a crowded road deserves severe punishment.

Fungunner
06-25-2007, 16:20
They had Delegate Albo on Chris Core (local radio show, for those folks not from NOVA) this morning. He said something about the way Virginia law is written, the state can't charge user fees to out of state drivers.

Where's reciprocity when you want it?

Hunterjbb
06-26-2007, 19:20
it's pretty simple really.. don't want to pay a heavy fine.. don't drive fast, which in VA is an oxymoron cause if you don't drive fast your life is in much more danger then going slower will compensate.

My normal 95 speed is about 70-75 never above. i try to stay only 5 miles above no matter what traffic is doing, it's difficult at best..

The out of state thing, geez i know i've seen people blowing by the state police at 80 already.. So now they will give out more tickets?

Should be interesting..

Jeff.

golai
06-27-2007, 05:11
Looks like I picked the wrong time to buy that BMW 335 Turbo coupe. I guess the po po will have to catch me in order to give me a ticket.

I'm kidding. But with respect to the non-DUI offenses, I could easily see judges who don't like the law convicting people of lesser offenses which don't include the fines. For example, suppose that you get ticketed for reckless driving for doing 76 in a 55. A judge could find you guilty for failing to obey a highway sign which carries a much lower fine than reckless driving.

vafish
06-27-2007, 07:49
Several other states have implemented similar laws.

But I believe they assess the fees to out of state drivers as well.

lethal tupperwa
06-27-2007, 09:13
If you get caught, again, for driving without a licence or with a suspended one, you have to pay a three part fee.

If you don't pay it your drivers licence (WHICH YOU DID NOT HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE) will be suspended.

How can this possibly work?

Navy87Guy
06-27-2007, 19:04
Originally posted by SocomCen
What happened to 'equal protection under the law?', this fine only applies to VA residents.

I guess this is like the way your Dad would always beat you harder than the neighbor kid when he caught you doing the same thing!

Jim

.40Guy
06-27-2007, 20:11
VA Reckless Driving is no joke. As I understand it they almost never throw the book at you, but the maximum penalty can involve jail time and loss of license, and the charge can affect your security clearance status. I had to lay out $1200 for a lawyer, and plead down to improper operation. I sat in traffic court for two hours watching guys lose their licenses over speeding and reckless, mostly because they couldn't/wouldn't pay a lawyer.

Nice system they have set up.. You can't talk to the prosecution without a lawyer. The alternative is to throw yourself on the mercy of the court, and as far as I saw, that means you ought to wear comfortable shoes that day, for the walk home.

I still speed, like everybody else, but I watch that 20-MPH-over limit a lot closer these days! :motorcycle:

lethal tupperwa
06-28-2007, 05:48
He got 6 reckless driving charges in one day.

He got 1 year in the pen (state farm).

He told me that they marched him out to a cornfield that he could not see the end of and he picked corn until it was too dark then he went inside and had to shuck the corn.

He said he had never been in such good shape in his life and, "he was never coming back to Virginia".

He said, "I'm on personal recognisance for 1'st degree Murder in the District."

Navy87Guy
06-28-2007, 11:19
Originally posted by .40Guy
I still speed, like everybody else, but I watch that 20-MPH-over limit a lot closer these days! :motorcycle:

It's 15 mph over in 65 and above zones!

Jim

redware
06-28-2007, 16:34
Funny thing about automobiles...

They don't know if their operators have a driver's license or not.

All this silly little law is going to do is drive up the number of people who drive without a license. Not everyone can afford to pay exorbitant fines.

Jerseycitysteve
06-28-2007, 17:50
Originally posted by redware
Funny thing about automobiles...

They don't know if their operators have a driver's license or not.

All this silly little law is going to do is drive up the number of people who drive without a license. Not everyone can afford to pay exorbitant fines.

Drive 20 miles over the posted limit in Virginia.

Tell the trooper you don't have a license.

See what happens.

Fungunner
06-28-2007, 19:42
Here's a URL that breaks it all down:

http://www.courts.state.va.us/publications/hb_3202.pdf

sigpro357
06-29-2007, 11:43
Try driving 55MPH in Northen Virginia inside the beltway. They will run you into the guard rail. I don' drive wreckless, I don't drive careless. But if your so arrogant that you don't believe these new laws can entrap you your a fool. It's rare that I ever get a ticket myself however it does happen from time to time. This new law is gonna put alot of people in alot of trouble and for what? So Virginia can build more roads. Hey how about putting policies in place to curtail residential development? How about tighter controls on expansion?

This state is going to crap.

TScottW99
06-29-2007, 19:21
Reckless driving punishment was already; up to 12 months in jail and/or a $2500 fine. However no judges ever give anyone anything close.

I have no problems with the new law. Of course I'm 35 and have never been given a speeding ticket :shocked: (knock on wood :supergrin: )

rifle-cop624
07-02-2007, 14:50
Great. Now VA coppers will be used as a tax collecting force.

lethal tupperwa
07-02-2007, 16:19
traffic on I81 is visibly slower today.

frank4570
07-04-2007, 15:26
At least this new law isn't just about collecting taxes. There are about... what.... 12 people per day killed on the beltway due to people driving over the speed limit?

SocomCen
07-04-2007, 15:33
Originally posted by frank4570
At least this new law isn't just about collecting taxes. There are about... what.... 12 people per day killed on the beltway due to people driving over the speed limit?

It's the differential speed that kills, meaning some people driving the speed limit, some under and some over. The speed itself does not kill, otherwise all Indy/NASCAR drivers wouldn't finish the race and go home.

Jeff82
07-04-2007, 15:44
Originally posted by SocomCen
It's the differential speed that kills, meaning some people driving the speed limit, some under and some over. The speed itself does not kill, otherwise all Indy/NASCAR drivers wouldn't finish the race and go home.
+1

If speed killed then there'd be no drivers on the autobahn. Now they do have high differential speed too BUT, THEY STAY TO THE RIGHT WHEN NOT PASSING!!!

I believe this simple act alone (staying right/enforcing 'stay right' law) would reduce most of our congestion. Wouldn't stop the typical beltway jam but the rest of the roads would open up if traffic were allowed to flow.

Navy87Guy
07-04-2007, 19:43
Originally posted by frank4570
At least this new law isn't just about collecting taxes. There are about... what.... 12 people per day killed on the beltway due to people driving over the speed limit?

I can't recall the last time there was a fatality on the Beltway around DC. Most of the accidents that take place seem to be on the stretch between Richmond and Fredericksburg - which is wide open and generally uncongested.

I agree with Jeff82 -- if people would just learn to use common sense when they're driving and be aware of their surroundings, then the incidents would drop dramatically. In Germany, you can actually get a ticket for being in the left lane and impeding traffic flow. Let's face it -- you have to have some speeders or traffic would back up miserably. Just look what happens when you get behind a trooper doing the speed limit: even though he and the lead cars are doing the speed limit, the resulting back up drops the overall speed of the "formation" 5-10 mph below the limit. If everyone drove the posted speed limit, then the average speed on the highway would probably drop to 45 mph. So you actually want some people out there going faster.

I have no problem with people who go the speed limit -- as long as they stay out of my way! :supergrin:

Jim

frank4570
07-04-2007, 20:00
Originally posted by Navy87Guy
I can't recall the last time there was a fatality on the Beltway around DC. Most of the accidents that take place seem to be on the stretch between Richmond and Fredericksburg - which is wide open and generally uncongested.



My first post was tongue in cheek.;)

I am just blind guessing here, but I'll bet a lot of those crashes on that stretch you are talking about are from people falling asleep or something of the sort. I don't fall asleep easily but an empty stretch of smooth highway makes me more sleepy than anything else.

mike253
07-13-2007, 13:28
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Anybody who drives 78 mph on the Washington beltway, deserves a public flogging. A fine is a mercy.

Listen up: Virginia needs roads. Either we raise taxes or increase fees. I don't see the problem.

You must not drive around NoVA much, I do it every day, and I know that 75 is about the minimum "safe" speed in the mornings and the afternoons.

Also, to the guy that said it isn't about taxes, thats ALL this is. It's not a fine, its a FEE. It is ONLY about money.

And, do you guys that support this realize it doesn't only apply to reckless driving? If you fail to use your turn signal, its I believe $300 per year for 3 years. If you have what an officers deems to be "sub standard tires" its the same thing. If you have what the officer deems to be an obstructed view, same thing.

So say you cancel your signal when you're 90% in the lane and an officer just sees the last 2 inches of your car in the other lane, he'll assume you didn't signal and thats $900 that CANNOT be suspended. What if you're on the way to get new tires because one is bald and you get pulled over? To bad, that'll be $900. What if you make $9/hour and have a kid to feed and rent to pay? To bad, you had a bald tire, that'll be $900.

BTW, the ass monkey that wrote this bill is a LAWYER who's firm represents TRAFFIC CASES. Not about money my ass.

alien-Glocker
07-13-2007, 13:53
They're feeling the heat so keep writing your reps!

From today's Washington Post:

RICHMOND, July 12 -- Virginia Republican leaders, faced with growing opposition to the "abusive driver" fees that went into effect July 1, said Thursday that they will consider scrapping some of them when the General Assembly convenes in January.....But some GOP legislators, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they don't want to offend House leaders, said they do not want to wait until January to act. Noting that drivers will be legally required to pay the fees in the interim, some lawmakers are advocating a special session this summer or fall.

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/12/AR2007071202054.html

CajunBass
07-13-2007, 19:50
Originally posted by rifle-cop624
Great. Now VA coppers will be used as a tax collecting force.

Exactly what I told my delegate when I wrote to him last week about this subject. (He was quick to point out that he did not vote for it.) The legislature didn't have the courage to raise taxes to pay for their highway projects, so they kick the heat to the police and the courts.

Not about the money? That's all it's about. They're actually counting on people breaking the law to fund highway construction. And they're counting on it happening a lot.

Jeff82
07-13-2007, 21:21
Pass it on to other Virginians!!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/va3202/petition.html

Jerseycitysteve
07-13-2007, 21:44
Road don't build themselves. How do we pay for them?

Jeff82
07-13-2007, 21:55
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Road don't build themselves. How do we pay for them?
I think a check would be fine! Seeing as you are volunteering I'll send the treasurer to your house. I'm sure they take donations.

Otherwise I'm sure there is a more equitable way to spread the cost. You just need politicians with the wisdom and guts to do what's needed instead of taking a wimp-loser's method and trying to jack the next unfortunate soul who gets pulled for a ticket.

Watch the blame game and finger pointing as the heat builds up.

Higher taxes a/o tolls is where this is going. Oh, and by contracting with qualified companies that can get the job done right the first time would help too.

Fungunner
07-14-2007, 05:58
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Road don't build themselves. How do we pay for them?

The one thing I note in Northern Virginia, is they widen a road, then developers come in and build up near and around it, thus putting that much more traffic out there.

One might think the developers could foot more of the bill than they already are. Of course, we might lose a few illegals, as it might cut down on the amount of construction, so fewer jobs.

Jerseycitysteve
07-14-2007, 08:29
With respect, the building of roads in Northern Virginia is an issue of supply and demand. "Developers" work for the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth is responding to the constantly rising population and political pressure of Northern Virginia. So far we don't live in Al Gore's or VI Lenin's world where the state dictates where people should live or where businesses should locate.

Now, I could point to some sparsely populated areas of the Commonwealth where one might wonder why on earth did the DOT put a road there.

Virginia is growing and is economically prosperous. Part of the prosperity needs to be allocated for infrastructure and because the Commonwealth can't print money like the Federal Government, revenue must be found.

I'm a Republican and I can't understand "conservatives" who want services but don't want to pay for them.

Jeff82
07-14-2007, 10:58
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
With respect, the building of roads in Northern Virginia is an issue of supply and demand. "Developers" work for the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth is responding to the constantly rising population and political pressure of Northern Virginia. So far we don't live in Al Gore's or VI Lenin's world where the state dictates where people should live or where businesses should locate.

Now, I could point to some sparsely populated areas of the Commonwealth where one might wonder why on earth did the DOT put a road there.

Virginia is growing and is economically prosperous. Part of the prosperity needs to be allocated for infrastructure and because the Commonwealth can't print money like the Federal Government, revenue must be found.

I'm a Republican and I can't understand "conservatives" who want services but don't want to pay for them.

It's not that I (or those that share my opinion) don't want to pay for services. There are equitable ways to pay for expansion and upkeep and then there are ways that place an undo burden on individuals. I can't imagine getting hammered with one of these several thousand dollar tickets. I'm barely making it now that would push me very near the edge of ruin. Like a bank that takes fees out for an overdraft but hundreds of times worse. Snowball effect. It's the stuff that will now not get paid after having to pay these fees that will dramatically effect your life (and many more I believe). This is punitive in effect if not in intention. The third and fourth order effects will be devastating for some families.

I've really enjoyed becoming a "Virginian" and I have a certain level of pride living in a state with such a distinguished history and lineage. I chose to stay here and finish raising a family after getting out of the active duty army. This is the first issue that has me seriously considering retiring elsewhere. I don't want to live in a punitive state. How much road work will be done by my taxes then?

Jeff82
07-14-2007, 12:21
Found in va-drivertax.pdf
Some of these will blow your mind!!
Does not include fine, court cost, rise in premiums, etc.

Crime/Annual Fee (Remember: each year for three years)

MANSLAUGHTER - VEHICLE/$1,000
INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER - VEHICLE/$1,000
INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER/ALCOHOL/$1,000
INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER/AGGRAVATED/$1,000

DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, MAIMING 1ST/$1,000
DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, MAIMING 2ND/$1,000
DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, MAIMING 3RD OR SUBSEQUENT/$1,000

UNAUTHORIZED USE OF MOTOR VEHICLE - FELONY/$1,000
UNAUTHORIZED USE OF MOTOR VEHICLE - MISDEMEANOR/$300

ENTER/SET IN MOTION VEHICLE/$300

DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, 1ST/$750
DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, 2ND/$750
DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, 3RD OR SUBSEQUENT/$1,000
DRIVING UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 1ST/$750
DRIVING UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 2ND/$750
DRIVING UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 3RD OR SUBSEQUENT/$1,000
DRIVING UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 1ST/$750
DRIVING UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 2ND/$750
DRIVING INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 3RD OR SUBSEQUENT/$1,000
DRIVING AFTER ILLEGALLY CONSUMING ALCOHOL/UNDER 21/$750
REFUSED BLOOD/BREATH, 2ND OFFENSE/$300
REFUSED BLOOD/BREATH, 3RD OFFENSE/$300

OPERATING SUSPENDED/REVOKED BASED UPON 18.2-272/$250
OPERATING SUSPENDED/REVOKED, 3RD IN 10 YRS - FELONY/$1,000

CONSUMING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE WHILE DRIVING/$300
NO DRIVER'S LICENSE - VEHICLE/MOTORCYCLE/$300
DRIVING UNDER REVOCATION OR SUSPENSION/$250
AUTHORIZE DUI OR HAB OFF/DUI SUSPENDED TO DRIVE/$300

DRIVE SUSPENDED BEFORE PROOF FINANCIAL RESPONS/$250
DRIVE WITHOUT LICENSE ENDORSEMENT(S)/$300
OPERATE IN VIOLATION RESTRICTED LICENSE/$300

LEARNER'S PERMIT VIOLATION/$300

OPERATE SCHOOL BUS WITHOUT LICENSE/$300

DRIVE CMV - MORE THAN ONE LICENSE/$300
DRIVE CMV WITHOUT LICENSE/$300
DRIVE CMV WITHOUT CDL OR PROPER CLASS/$300
CDL INSTRUCTION PERMIT VIOLATION/$300
OPERATE CMV WITHOUT ENDORSEMENT(S)/$300
USE CMV TO DISTRIBUTE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE/$300
VIOLATING OUT OF SERVICE ORDER/$250
DRIVING CMV WHILE DISQUALIFIED/$250
DRIVE CMV - BAC .04 OR MORE/$750
DRIVE CMV - BAC .08 OR MORE, 1ST/$750
DRIVE CMV - BAC .08 OR MORE, 2ND WITHIN 5 YEARS/$750
DRIVE CMV - BAC .08 OR MORE, 3RD/$750
DRIVE CMV - BAC .08 OR MORE/DRUGS/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 1ST/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 2ND/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS/ALCOHOL, 3RD/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 1ST/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 2ND/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 3RD/$750

DRIVER'S LICENSE VIOLATION/$300

PERMIT UNLICENSED PERSON TO DRIVE/$300

OPERATING AFTER DECLARED HAB OFF - MISDEMEANOR/$300
OPERATING AFTER DECLARED HAB OFF - FELONY/$1,000

INJURY OR DEATH - FAIL TO NOTIFY POLICE OF ACCIDENT/$300

DRIVING WHEN REVOKED FOR DUI/2ND - MISDEMEANOR/$250
DRIVING WHEN REVOKED FOR DUI/2ND - FELONY/$1,000
DRIVING WHEN REVOKED FOR DUI/3RD - MISDEMEANOR/$250
DRIVING WHEN REVOKED FOR DUI/3RD - FELONY/$1,000

OPERATE OVERWEIGHT OR BEFORE PAYMENT OF FEE/$300
REFUSE TO HAVE VEHICLE WEIGHED/$300

OPERATE OR PERMIT OPERATION UNINSURED MOTOR VEHICLE/$300
KNOWINGLY OPERATE UNINSURED MOTOR VEHICLE/$300
HAUL PROHIBITED CARGO THROUGH TUNNEL/$300

ELUDE POLICE - MISDEMEANOR/$300
ELUDE POLICE - FELONY/$1,000
DISREGARD POLICE SIGNAL TO STOP/$300
ATTEMPT TO ELUDE POLICE/$300
STOP VEHICLE TO IMPEDE TRAVEL/BLOCK/DAMAGE/$300

RD - PASS OR OVERTAKE EMERGENCY VEHICLE/$300
RD - GENERALLY - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - GENERALLY - FELONY/$1,000

RD - OPERATE IMPROPER BRAKES - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - OPERATE IMPROPER BRAKES - FELONY/$1,000

RD - IMPROPER CONTROL - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - IMPROPER CONTROL - FELONY/$1,000

RD - PASS ON CREST OF HILL - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - PASS ON CREST OF HILL - FELONY/$1,000

RD - VIEW OBSTRUCTED - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - VIEW OBSTRUCTED - FELONY/$1,000

RD - PASS TWO VEH ABREAST - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - PASS TWO VEH ABREAST - FELONY/$1,000
RD - DR TWO VEH ABREAST - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - DR TWO VEH ABREAST - FELONY/$1,000

RD - PASS AT RR CROSSING - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - PASS AT RR CROSSING-FELONY/$1,000
RD - PASS SCHOOL BUS - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - PASS SCHOOL BUS - FELONY/$1,000

RD - FAIL TO GIVE PROPER SIGNAL - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - FAIL TO GIVE PROPER SIGNAL - FELONY/$1,000

RD - DRIVE TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - DRIVE TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS - FELONY/$1,000

RD - SPEEDING EXCESS OF 80 MPH - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - SPEEDING EXCESS OF 80 MPH - FELONY/$1,000
RD - SPEED 20/MORE ABOVE SPEED LIMIT - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - SPEED 20/MORE ABOVE SPEED LIMIT - FELONY/$1,000

RD - FAIL TO STOP ENTERING HIGHWAY - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - FAIL TO STOP ENTERING HIGHWAY - FELONY/$1,000
RD - ON PARKING LOTS, ETC - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - ON PARKING LOTS, ETC - FELONY/$1,000

RD - RACING - MISDEMEANOR/$350
RD - RACING - FELONY/$1,000
INJURING PERSON/CAUSING DEATH WHILE RACING - FELONY/$1,000
AID AND ABET RACING/$300

AGGRESSIVE DRIVING/$350

FAIL STOP SCENE ACCIDENT - FELONY/$1,000
FAIL STOP SCENE ACCIDENT - MISDEMEANOR/$300
FAIL REPORT ACCIDENT/UNATTENDED PROPERTY/LESS $250/$300
FAIL STOP SCENE ACCIDENT/UNATTENDED PROPERTY/$300
FAIL STOP SCENE ACCIDENT/UNATTEND PROP/EXCESS $500/$300

IMPROPER OPERATION/RIDING MOTORCYCLE/$300

EMERGENCY VEHICLE VIOLATION/$300
FAIL STOP FOR PEDESTRIAN WITH WHITE CANE/$300

OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE WITH BELOW-STANDARD TIRES/$300

OBSCENE VIDEO IMAGE VISIBLE OUTSIDE VEHICLE/$300

OPERATE WITH SMOKE SCREEN/FELONY/$1,000
OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE WITH WORKING N2O DEVICE/$300

OPERATE SCHOOL BUS WITHOUT WARNING DEVICE/$300
OPERATE SCHOOL BUS TRANSPORT CHILD W/O SAFETY BELT/$300

EXCESS WEIGHT/HEIGHT/SIZE/SPEED ON RESTRICTED HWY/$300
FAIL TO DISCONTINUE OPERATING CMV/$300
REFUSING TO DRIVE TO WEIGH STATION/$300
VIOLATE HIGHWAY HAUL PERMIT/$300

Th-th-that's all folks!!
See anything that would apply to you?!

Wolfgang
07-14-2007, 13:17
we didn't have that much of a problem before we had roads. People should just stay at home.

Civiluzation ain't what it's kracked up to be anyhow!

sigpro357
07-15-2007, 13:21
Have you ever noticed how people from the predominately northern states such as Mass, New York, New Jersey, etc etc continue to move south to escape higher taxes and higher home prices, gas prices etc. Then they move to places like Virginia demanding larger highways, and more stores etc. Expansion booms uncontrolled by the politicians and all of a sudden it seems like Northern Virginia looks more like Central New Jersey than a state south of the Mason Dixon line.

In turn they elect more Democrats who push forward social spending bills and tax increases for "SERVICES". And once they ruin this state they will more further south to somewhere like North Carolina.

sigpro357
07-15-2007, 13:23
From what I understand Virginia modeled this fees legislation after our neighbor to the North. (NEW JERSEY). Oh no say it isn't so.

Jerseycitysteve
07-15-2007, 13:43
Originally posted by sigpro357
Have you ever noticed how people from the predominately northern states such as Mass, New York, New Jersey, etc etc continue to move south to escape higher taxes and higher home prices, gas prices etc. Then they move to places like Virginia demanding larger highways, and more stores etc. Expansion booms uncontrolled by the politicians and all of a sudden it seems like Northern Virginia looks more like Central New Jersey than a state south of the Mason Dixon line.

In turn they elect more Democrats who push forward social spending bills and tax increases for "SERVICES". And once they ruin this state they will more further south to somewhere like North Carolina.


Just like ants!:upeyes:

Prosperity! Jobs! Goods! Services!

Ask the folk in South Side Virginia if they'd like some: roads, stores and the rest. Cities like Danville are still paying for a policy to keep out growth, labor unions, and other "Yankee" ideas. Being poor is not a Southern virtue.

Hunterjbb
07-15-2007, 14:16
OPERATE WITH SMOKE SCREEN/FELONY/$1,000

I found the above kind of interesting in a "what the heck does this mean kind of way?". Frankly am amazed at some of the $$ for the DUI infractions, i'd have thought in our politically correct society that those would be MUCH higher...

I do believe my freind got nailed the other day with a HUGE ticket for going 46 in a 25 zone..

And how the heck does anyone speed on 95 when it's 3 lanes bumper to bumper going 10 miles and hour?.. like it was on Friday night at 8pm from the 495 interexchange all the way to Fredericksburg?.

I know i know.. 95 is like indianapolis motor speedway, most peole think they are Richard Petty and drive likes it's a nascar event, unrealistically insane..

I'm a "slow poke" according to members of my family as i don't drive more then 5 miles per hour over the speed limit anywhere.. I've had my one speeding ticket.. :) no more for me.

Although some of those fines are really goofy..

Jeff.

Hunterjbb
07-15-2007, 14:24
OPERATE WITH SMOKE SCREEN/FELONY/$1,000

I found the above kind of interesting in a "what the heck does this mean kind of way?". Frankly am amazed at some of the $$ for the DUI infractions, i'd have thought in our politically correct society that those would be MUCH higher...

I do believe my freind got nailed the other day with a HUGE ticket for going 46 in a 25 zone..

And how the heck does anyone speed on 95 when it's 3 lanes bumper to bumper going 10 miles and hour?.. like it was on Friday night at 8pm from the 495 interexchange all the way to Fredericksburg?.

I know i know.. 95 is like indianapolis motor speedway, most peole think they are Richard Petty and drive likes it's a nascar event, unrealistically insane..

I'm a "slow poke" according to members of my family as i don't drive more then 5 miles per hour over the speed limit anywhere.. I've had my one speeding ticket.. :) no more for me.

Although some of those fines are really goofy..

Jeff.

Jeff82
07-15-2007, 16:16
Originally posted by sigpro357
From what I understand Virginia modeled this fees legislation after our neighbor to the North. (NEW JERSEY). Oh no say it isn't so.
Other states have done this. Though $100-$300 dollars total is the norm, not $3000!

Carlitos
07-16-2007, 09:15
Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
Perhaps a few thousand dollar fines will do the trick for those who exceed 75 MPH. Driving that fast on a crowded road deserves severe punishment.

Actually, I recently drove more than 140 MPH on a relatively crowded road and magically, I survived, as did my bank account. Should I be severly punished? This drive was on the Autobahn south of Munich.

What's different in Germany?

We suck as far as our driving skills in America. None of us actually "drive." Rather, we just sort of steer the car a little while paying attention to other things like phones, eating, talking, kids, etc. And we have NO training compared to them - most states don't even require it and the driving test is a joke (plus they NEVER take your license due to age thanks to anti-gun AARP).

I love my country, but our driving "skills" are non-existant.

Carlitos
07-16-2007, 09:45
Originally posted by Hunterjbb
I found the above kind of interesting in a "what the heck does this mean kind of way?". Frankly am amazed at some of the $$ for the DUI infractions, i'd have thought in our politically correct society that those would be MUCH higher...

I do believe my freind got nailed the other day with a HUGE ticket for going 46 in a 25 zone..

And how the heck does anyone speed on 95 when it's 3 lanes bumper to bumper going 10 miles and hour?.. like it was on Friday night at 8pm from the 495 interexchange all the way to Fredericksburg?.

I know i know.. 95 is like indianapolis motor speedway, most peole think they are Richard Petty and drive likes it's a nascar event, unrealistically insane..

I'm a "slow poke" according to members of my family as i don't drive more then 5 miles per hour over the speed limit anywhere.. I've had my one speeding ticket.. :) no more for me.

Although some of those fines are really goofy..

Jeff.

I agree with you Jeff - some of them are goofy. For example:

"DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 1ST/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 2ND/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 3RD/$750"

WTF? I am very open minded, but I don't think someone who takes drugs and then gets behind the wheel should have a license at all. A few drinks is one thing. Everybody goes to octoberfest or a wine tasting or wedding from time to time - you have to take that into account & be fair. But, taking drugs is another thing altogether - and if you get behind the wheel after taking drugs it's akin to attempted murder if you ask me. When I see how many people want to legalize taking marijuana it makes me sick. The last place that dope heads belong is behind the wheel.

On another note: What does "smoke screen" mean anyway?

vafish
07-16-2007, 09:58
Originally posted by Carlitos
I agree with you Jeff - some of them are goofy. For example:

"DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 1ST/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 2ND/$750
DRIVE CMV UNDER INFLUENCE DRUGS, 3RD/$750"

WTF? I am very open minded, but I don't think someone who takes drugs and then gets behind the wheel should have a license at all. A few drinks is one thing. Everybody goes to octoberfest or a wine tasting or wedding from time to time - you have to take that into account & be fair. But, taking drugs is another thing altogether - and if you get behind the wheel after taking drugs it's akin to attempted murder if you ask me. When I see how many people want to legalize taking marijuana it makes me sick. The last place that dope heads belong is behind the wheel.

On another note: What does "smoke screen" mean anyway?

And CMV stands for Commercial Motor Vehicle.

That means the fine for getting behind the wheel of an 80,000 lb truck or a bus full of people while you are stoned is only $750 for the first offense.

Jeff82
07-16-2007, 11:08
I think "drugs" includes legal ones too. Get into an accident while using prescribed pain killers, muscle relaxants, etc.

Fungunner
07-16-2007, 15:30
OPERATE WITH SMOKE SCREEN/FELONY/$1,000

I gotta admit, was wondering about some of the other 007 toys. What about ejector seats? Oil Slicks? Machine guns?

Jeff82
07-16-2007, 16:50
(Officer pulls dude over after he stole M1 Abrams tank, crushing cars, road signs and fire hydrants; chasing old ladies back into churches, waking babies, and commiting general mayhem... )

"Sir, you do realise you're operating this vehicle with the smoke generator on, don't you? You understand I'm going to have to cite you."

Hunterjbb
07-16-2007, 20:35
VaFish, your absolutely right.. driving a truck/bus etc. while stoned.. hmm.. not so good..

I just don't get some of the fines..

DRIVING WHEN REVOKED FOR DUI/2ND - MISDEMEANOR/$250
RD - SPEEDING EXCESS OF 80 MPH - MISDEMEANOR/$350


So.. If i understand those correctly, if i get caught with my liscence revoked because of a DUI and it's my SECOND time getting caught, it's only gonna cost me $250 buck or a $1000 if i get the Felony charge..

BUT -- If i'm going faster then 80 MPH which is a fairly normal occurance for 95 for a lot of folks, it's gonna Cost me $350 or a $1000

HUH? I would think anyone getting caught driving with a revoked licsence for DUI and this is THE SECOND time... should be paying a bit more then $250 bucks..

I see common sense at it's best here.. Of course, i should have thought of it, sure why not make the RD charge higher.. your going to be able to give it to more people so INCOME will be better for the state.. plus you won't look like your being to HARD on those poor "sick" alcoholic people driving with revoked licsences.. after all it is a disease.. :shocked:

Jeff..

PS: thank goodness i drive slow.

mike253
07-17-2007, 10:27
Keep in mind folks, that alot of those $250, $350, and $1,000 fees are PER YEAR for THREE YEARS..

rifle-cop624
07-17-2007, 14:11
"In Germany, you can actually get a ticket for being in the left lane and impeding traffic flow. "

And you can get one in VA, too. Check the traffic code, 46.2

The left lane is a designated passing lane ONLY! Not a stinkin lane of travel, mouth-breathers!!!

Jeff82
07-17-2007, 16:01
Originally posted by mike253
Keep in mind folks, that alot of those $250, $350, and $1,000 fees are PER YEAR for THREE YEARS..
And doesn't include the actual fine, court costs, etc. This is just a fee added to all the "bad stuff".

pjva04
07-17-2007, 18:58
Originally posted by rifle-cop624
"In Germany, you can actually get a ticket for being in the left lane and impeding traffic flow. "

And you can get one in VA, too. Check the traffic code, 46.2

The left lane is a designated passing lane ONLY! Not a stinkin lane of travel, mouth-breathers!!!

I WAS JUST RELAXING MY JAW!
http://subwaysurfer.com/wp-content/old%20toothless%20geezer%20color.jpg

Sinsaba
08-02-2007, 12:03
Good news!

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-08-02-0226.html



Judge rules Va. driving fees unconstitutional

Virginia's so-called bad driver fees today failed the first of what is expected to be a series of court challenges.

Henrico General District Judge Archer L. Yeatts III, in a brief hearing this morning, said the measure passed by the most-recent session of the General Assembly was unconstitutional.

Yeatts referred the matter to Henrico County Circuit Court, where it is likely to get a hearing as early as next week, court officials said.

Yeatts ruled in the matter of Anthony O. Price, a 23-year-old Henrico man whose case is apparently the first to be contested since the fees became law July 1.

Arrested July 2 for driving without a license, Price was convicted last week and sentenced to a mandatory 10 days in jail and a fine of $250. The fees could raise his costs by $750.

The fees have been hailed by some as being capable of producing more than $60 million a year in road fund money.

But Gov. Timothy M. Kaine and legislative leaders are scrambling to reassess the fees as public opposition mounts.

Because the law affects only in-state drivers, Price's attorneys say it is discriminatory and violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

But prosecutors say lower courts don't have the power to throw out laws on constitutional grounds, especially when the laws have a rational foundation.

Price is among the first to feel the bite of the new fees, but he's no stranger to the courts. This is the sixth time he has faced charges of driving without a license, according to court records.

Kaine last week called Price one of "these really egregious violators" whom the fees are supposed to ensnare.


As a friend of mine points out, this has no legal standing but, it could be indicative of the prevailing attitude.

lethal tupperwa
08-02-2007, 14:36
be picking crops at the state farm!

mike253
08-03-2007, 22:34
My town council voted to essentially "repeal" the law. If you are cited by a town police officer, the "civil remediation fees" do not apply because the town police follow the "town code" If you are cited by a deputy or a state trooper, you're out of luck. Won't be long until the whole deal is scrapped and I can't wait.

lethal tupperwa
08-04-2007, 06:01
If some citizen with a cell phone calls in a reckless or drunk...

And the county DISPATCHES a Deputy there is an additional FEE.

If the Deputy sees you on their own no extra fee ABOVE the State fee.

Front Royal is talking about something similar.

These are fees in addition to fines.

Jeff82
08-04-2007, 12:25
Originally posted by rifle-cop624
"In Germany, you can actually get a ticket for being in the left lane and impeding traffic flow. "

And you can get one in VA, too. Check the traffic code, 46.2

The left lane is a designated passing lane ONLY! Not a stinkin lane of travel, mouth-breathers!!!
When's the last time that was written on a citation? If HiPo would spend more time writing those instead of speeding ticktets we might get much closer to solving the highway congestion problems!


Left lane driving on controlled access motorways (defined by only access being via merge lanes/ramps, fencing everywhere else) = bad

Left lane driving anywhere else = ok, even better/safer in city/towns than right lane driving

Carlitos
08-06-2007, 11:21
I confess, I did not think I, or anyone I know, was likely to get hit with these huge fees. BUT - sure enough, I drove a couple home from a party Saturday and a kid who works in the wife's office was ticketed just after the fines went into effect:

$10,000 in fines.

According to her: kid slowed to 25 MPH in a construction zone. He thought the zone was over since there were no more cones or equipment - just open road. He sped back up to the limit (45) and was clocked going 47 MPH. Police had a trap set up & charged him with 27 miles over speed limit, speeding in construction zone, wreckless driving, etc. They pulled him over on account of the speed. But the other problem is the kid was 22 y.o. & had just left a party where he consumed exactly 2 beers - which he honestly revealed to the police. He blew a breathalyzer that caused a DUI charge too.

Anyone else think a $10,000 debt for a 22 year old is a bit much under these circumstances? Glad they suspended this stupid law.

Navy87Guy
08-07-2007, 04:53
Originally posted by Carlitos
Anyone else think a $10,000 debt for a 22 year old is a bit much under these circumstances? Glad they suspended this stupid law.

Uh...did I miss something? When were they suspended? All I saw was that the judge in Henrico County declared them unconstitutional -- but that only applies in Henrico. As far as I know, they are still in effect every where else (except those towns that have passed local ordinances to ignore them).

Jim

TScottW99
08-07-2007, 06:50
Originally posted by Carlitos


Anyone else think a $10,000 debt for a 22 year old is a bit much under these circumstances? Glad they suspended this stupid law.

Not if you add up everything, DUI, wreckless, construction zone. Of course I can't stand DUI and think the judges are way to lax.

Carlitos
08-07-2007, 09:45
Originally posted by TScottW99 "Not if you add up everything, DUI, wreckless, construction zone. Of course I can't stand DUI and think the judges are way too lax."

Agree generally that DUI should be punished harshly - but was this really DUI as I described it? In this case he only blew the minimum on the breathalyzer - yes I know that there are limits but 2 beers is not drunk driving in my book. Last year D.C. convicted a woman after ONE GLASS OF WHITE WINE - she was drunk according to the law, but again, not so in my book. D.C. has since changed their "zero tolerance" approach.

Save the DUI charges and huge fines for the many many repeat offenders out there or the poeple that take drugs and get behind the wheel - but don't slam some young kid with no tolerance who only drank 2 beers.


Hey Jim - my bad; did not mean to imply they have been suspended statewide; only in Henrico.

Latest from the D.C. comPost on the issue:

"RICHMOND, July 12 -- Virginia Republican leaders, faced with growing opposition to the "abusive driver" fees that went into effect July 1, said Thursday that they will consider scrapping some of them when the General Assembly convenes in January.

The fees, some of which exceed $1,000 per infraction, were part of a transportation plan that lawmakers approved this year. They were designed to raise millions of dollars each year for road and transit projects by imposing surcharges onto the fines for Virginia motorists convicted of serious traffic offenses, such as driving under the influence. . . . The fees, which Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) supported as part of the bipartisan transportation agreement, have become a top issue in this fall's legislative races. Many residents have contacted their legislators, expressing outrage that the fees do not apply to out-of-state motorists.

Sen. Kenneth W. Stolle (R-Virginia Beach) said the General Assembly probably will try to limit the fees to "truly reckless drivers." Stolle said some lawmakers also want to collect the fees from out-of-state motorists.

But some GOP legislators, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they don't want to offend House leaders, said they do not want to wait until January to act. Noting that drivers will be legally required to pay the fees in the interim, some lawmakers are advocating a special session this summer or fall.

A coalition of anti-tax activists and advocates for the poor also has started an online petition drive calling for a special session. The group wants the General Assembly to eliminate all of the new fees, not just those for Class 3 or 4 misdemeanors. As of Thursday, more than 1,200 people had signed the petition. Another petition received more than 36,000 signatures.

Sherry D. Sherry of Leesburg, who helped organize the petition drive, said the fees could trap drivers with limited incomes in a cycle of debt. She noted that someone convicted of a first-time DUI will have to pay $750 a year for three years.

"I am not trying to defend someone who gets a DUI, but I just know if someone gets a ticket and wants to rehabilitate their life and they work in a low-salary industry, this ticket will put them in a hole they will never climb out of," Sherry said.

Kaine, who has been advocating for the abuser fees since taking office, said through a spokesman Thursday that he "remains open to the possibility" of revising the charges. But Kevin Hall, the spokesman, said the governor still thinks the fees will make Virginia roads safer.

"It is important to remember most of these enhanced fees only apply to a small percentage of motorists who engage in criminal, reckless driving that causes accidents and injures and kills other people," Hall said.

The fees, which could raise as much as $65 million annually, were intended to be a partial substitute for a statewide tax increase, which Kaine supported but the Republican-controlled House opposed.

Stolle said the Senate, which had supported a tax increase, had tried to keep revenue generated from the fees to $28 million annually. But he said House Republican leaders insisted on at least $65 million, which meant the fees had to be higher and cover more offenses.

"The more money you try to generate, the more violations you have to pick up," said Stolle, adding that some lawmakers may want to cut the amount of money raised by $40 million to $50 million by scaling back the abuser fees.

In addition to the fees for misdemeanor and felony traffic convictions, motorists with eight or more points on their driving records will have to pay more. Those drivers have to pay $100 for the eight points and $75 for every additional point. Failure to pay will result in suspension of licenses.

Del. Brian J. Moran (D-Alexandria), who wants all of the new fees eliminated, said they "cause more problems than they solve."

"It is going to generate more driving on suspended licenses, which will clog up the court system and generate other expenses to society," Moran said.

Del. Thomas Davis Rust (R-Fairfax), one of the architects of the abuser-fee law, said he's surprised "by the volume of the outcry."

"If you don't break the law, you don't have a problem," said Rust, noting that the average Virginia motorist gets a ticket once every seven years.

But Rust's Democratic opponent, Jay Donahue, said he plans to make an issue of the fees in the fall.

"It is indefensible for legislators to adopt proposals that discriminate in favor of out-of-state drivers, excusing them from paying their fair share of our road construction and maintenance costs," Donahue wrote in an editorial scheduled to appear in local newspapers Friday.""

Here is the link to the whole story on the WashingtonPost.com website:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/12/AR2007071202054.html

Hunterjbb
08-07-2007, 22:08
It is important to remember most of these enhanced fees only apply to a small percentage of motorists who engage in criminal, reckless driving that causes accidents and injures and kills other people," Hall said.

Government at it's best, completely out of touch with reality..

Oh by the way if the "small percentage of Motorists" happen to be from say New York, New Jersey etc.. and they are doing this they get off without the penalties... That certainly endears us to our legislature..

I'm not against punishing people who break the law and i've always thought that the punishment should escalate with the severity of the crime committed, but punish everyone doing the crime, not just the folks that live in the state.. and let's be real here.

What i'm really hoping for is one of these lawmakers family members get's on of these whoppers.. let's see how fast they cry foul..

Jeff.

Jeff82
08-08-2007, 06:34
"It is important to remember most of these enhanced fees only apply to a small percentage of motorists who engage in criminal, reckless driving that causes accidents and injures and kills other people," Hall said.

Hall's a liar by misdirection. He's attempting to convince Virginians that these fees only apply to a "small percentage" that are "reckless" and "KILL". No. Wrong. By law they apply to all Virginians!

Per year for three years!!
UNAUTHORIZED USE OF MOTOR VEHICLE - MISDEMEANOR/$300

ENTER/SET IN MOTION VEHICLE/$300

NO DRIVER'S LICENSE - VEHICLE/MOTORCYCLE/$300

DRIVE WITHOUT LICENSE ENDORSEMENT(S)/$300

OPERATE IN VIOLATION RESTRICTED LICENSE/$300

LEARNER'S PERMIT VIOLATION/$300

CDL INSTRUCTION PERMIT VIOLATION/$300

OPERATE CMV WITHOUT ENDORSEMENT(S)/$300

DRIVER'S LICENSE VIOLATION/$300

PERMIT UNLICENSED PERSON TO DRIVE/$300

DISREGARD POLICE SIGNAL TO STOP/$300

OPERATE OVERWEIGHT OR BEFORE PAYMENT OF FEE/$300

IMPROPER OPERATION/RIDING MOTORCYCLE/$300

OPERATE MOTOR VEHICLE WITH BELOW-STANDARD TIRES/$300


And it's not really a question of the gov't being out of touch. It's a question of the People being out of touch with who the politicians are: Most pols are all about contolling every aspect of your life through regulation, fees, fines, laws, and other assorted permission/persecution slips. You are not smart enough to do anything without their consent. It's not so much that they are smarter than you. They just like being in control of what you can/can't do. Keeps them in necessary, "in the loop". Without that they'd have to find a real job and produce something or starve. VOTE THE LOSERS OUT!!!

trio
08-10-2007, 23:03
ive been lurking here, and ive asked this in other places, but I will ask this here too....

would you have as much of a problem with these things if they had just increased the criminal penalty for such offenses?

You do realize, of course, that reckless driving is a class 1 misdemeanor and can be punished by up to a year in jail? Criminally speaking, of course, it is viewed as just as serious a crime in the Commonwealth as DUI....

Also, keep in mind, that these fees are administered by the DMV by statute, not the individual counties....so the order by the Henrico judge means, well, pretty much nothing....when the DMV gets the record of the conviction it will still apply the fee because he has no power to bind the state agency...

It is, of course, a step in the right direction...

As a member of the VA bar I have my own issues with these remedial fees, which I can go into (or not).....

The fact of the matter is, though, that an insane amount of people die on our country's (and Virginia's) roads, and if our lawmakers had broached this as a measure to make our roads safer, I might not have had as much a problem with it...

But they didn't....it may as well have been titled "The I-95/NoVA Road Construction Bill"....

But, as you point out, you will have to pay upwards of $1000 over what actually amounts to a little under 3 years for a misdemeanor, and $3000 to commit a felony....

Having said that (and please realize I am playing devil's advocate) we all do realize that it is a privilege to drive in the Commonwealth and that, when you drive like a moron (see Mr. Suspended 5 times) we breach that privilege, similar to breaching a contract....

If you granted someone a privilege or a license to do something, and they continuously, criminally, abused that privilege, would you not impose some penalty on that license?

The state, of course, already did this through the "points system"....get too many points on your license, and you can lose it....now, in addition to this, for abusing your license, you pay for it....

As a scheme to make people respect their license, I dont have as much of an issue with it....as a taxmaking scheme, a lot more...

But, personally, part of my problem with a lot of the outcry is I do not see it as righteous indignation...

What I hear a lot of is people getting angry that it is going to cost them more to break the law...and, I am sorry, but too damn bad...I seem to remember something about "dont do the crime, etc etc" thing...

If you have a problem with the law because of what it is, fine...

But if you have a problem with the law because now when you drive 85 down 66 you might have to pay more, I have little sympathy for you...the two greatest causes of traffic deaths in this country are impairment and excessive speed....69 in a 55 is plenty fast and it wont get you reckless...as is 79 in a 65...maybe i am getting old...but if you feel the need to drive 90 down 95 i have no problem with a judge charging you with a class 1 misdemeanor....

Jeff82
08-11-2007, 12:30
Originally posted by trio
would you have as much of a problem with these things if they had just increased the criminal penalty for such offenses?

You do realize, of course, that reckless driving is a class 1 misdemeanor and can be punished by up to a year in jail? Criminally speaking, of course, it is viewed as just as serious a crime in the Commonwealth as DUI....

The fact of the matter is, though, that an insane amount of people die on our country's (and Virginia's) roads, and if our lawmakers had broached this as a measure to make our roads safer, I might not have had as much a problem with it...


As a scheme to make people respect their license, I dont have as much of an issue with it....as a taxmaking scheme, a lot more...

But, personally, part of my problem with a lot of the outcry is I do not see it as righteous indignation...

If you have a problem with the law because of what it is, fine...


..but if you feel the need to drive 90 down 95 i have no problem with a judge charging you with a class 1 misdemeanor....

They should have raised the criminal penalty if they are interested in safety (but then the funds wouldn't be directed properly!). The legislature should handle funding state projects like responsible grown people and not try to hide this "somewhere else."

I've no prob with increasing penalties for DUI and reckless but as I've posted above, that isn't all that this includes. How do you feel about a $1000 1st time Learner's Permit violation? That'll teach 'em! Or getting snagged for $1000 for a "below standard tire"? (Obviously LEO's judgement at the scene and I'm not arguing "for" steel belts hanging out or some one running on rims...)