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MSW
06-23-2007, 21:07
CCW Renewal Training - *&%^ Issues!


I talked to a friend of mine in Louisiana who has a current CCW permit. His permit is about to expire. When he orginally applied for his CCW he was able to submit his DD 214 to show that he had the required small arms training.

He now tells me he has to take "additional" firearms training. This is mandated by law.

I told him I'd get on GT and ask around. I asked in the Carry section but I thought I'd you folks who live down in LA. I told him that when I looked on the Bayou Club before I saw at least a couple of LEO's and that they might know:

1. Does any other state grant CCW to Veterans and then upon renewal require "additional" training?

2. Can anyone see any logic in this law? Seems to be if the state wants training it should be on the front end. My friend told me his original permit was for 4 years. Now, 3 1/2 years later the state is telling him he needs "additional" training.

3. My friend has never had a CCW problem - no arrests, no issues, no - nothing!


Has anyone else encountered this nonsense in other states.

My friend has not gotten the training and he is not happy that he now has to undergo this training. He thinks this is something the CCW instructors have lobbied for to earn more $s.

Friend can't really understand the reasons for now requiring training. Can anyone explain? Keep in mind anyone with a DD 214 can get a current CCW permit but to renew, one has to take "additional" training.

lw55566
06-24-2007, 12:04
Hello-

The Louisiana law is clear on this subject. The initial training is much longer and involved. The renewal course is short refresher. I think just a video and then shooting. I copy and pasted the law directly from the LSP wedsite. Looks like everyone has to do refresher course.



Training

Original/First-Time Applicants:

In addition to meeting the qualifications in R.S. 40:1379.3(C), an applicant must demonstrate competence with a handgun by completion of an approved firearms safety or training course taught by an NRA or P.O.S.T. certified instructor that is registered with State Police, or completion of small arms training while serving in the military (as evidenced by a DD-214), [active service members, reservist and national guard members must include a clear photocopy of their military ID (front & back) with a copy of their last qualification record from their 201 file], or possession of a current valid license to carry a concealed weapon issued by a parish law enforcement officer.

Renewals:

Pursuant to LAC 55:I:1307.D, each permittee applying for a renewal of his permit shall complete additional educational training within one year prior to submitting a renewal application. To obtain renewal training, please contact one of the LSP registered instructors.

Direct Link to LSP CCW trainig policies (http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#training)

MSW
06-25-2007, 05:13
Thanks.

I read what you posted and appreciate you taking the time to do it.

What I don't understand is how one can get a CCW permit the first time w/o training (based on having a DD214) and then 4 years later one has to be trained. This doesn't make sense to me. Either the state of Louisiana should honor refine its regulations on granting the permit w/o training or require training each and every time.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply.

LSP972
06-26-2007, 05:10
Originally posted by MSW
This doesn't make sense to me.

It didn't make sense to the troopers who had to write those regs, either.

Welcome to Lousyana, where politicians have far too much influence in the regulatory processes...

Here's what happened:

Louisiana has one of the least-stringent initial training requirements for license issue. The "training" , in regards to actual firearms handling, is a joke (although the applicant does get a good overview of the legalities and theories of concealed carry). The State Police said that more was needed, along with a higher standard of demonstrated proficiency. The politicians said no, that's too onerous for the citizens.

Then it was realized that Louisiana's program is pretty sad compared to other states (in terms of ensuring that a complete tool doesn't get a permit); hence the "refresher" requirement.

But at least the mechanism is in place for those who wish to carry. Ask the folks in Illinois, New Jersey, etc., if they would gladly pay for a refresher course to be able to carry.

.

MSW
06-26-2007, 05:37
Thanks. I went on line and saw this required by the Louisiana Adminstrative Code and figured someone at Louisiana State Police decided this was the way to do it.

If you ask me, this seems sort of backwards. Why not just require the training up front or not require it at all.

Is this something that is decided by the Commander of the State Police or is it a committee decision? If so, who?

lw55566
06-26-2007, 13:34
I agree as to the level of the training. When i said "much longer and involved" I meant having to sit there longer.

I have suggested to many people a trip to one of the facilities out there like Frontsite, Gunsite, Etc.

But I wouldn't complain, like the man said at least the permit is availble unlike other stats.

LSP972
06-27-2007, 04:46
Originally posted by MSW

Is this something that is decided by the Commander of the State Police or is it a committee decision? If so, who?

Not sure, these days.

When the law was first promulgated, LSP alledgely had some input to the provisions, required training, etc.; much of which was ignored by the framers of the bill.

Now that the law has been in effect for a while, LSP can make some administrative changes; but nothing that can alter the substantive language/provisions of the statute.

I used to be able to stay on top of this, since the guy running the program was a friend of mine (and I was a trooper). I retired in March, and the Concealed Handgun Permit section was undergoing comissioned personnel changes (Wendy still was the main civilian there; she's the one to talk to).

The individual in charge of the section when I left was... well, not exactly a ball of fire; if you get my drift. So I have no clue what's going there these days.

.

jurisglock
06-27-2007, 20:46
I can tell you that when I first got my permit, the training class lasted most of one full day, including almost 100 rounds downrange. That was in Baker, just north of Baton Rouge.

Sitting through my renewal consisted of watching a video of news clips regarding the use of lethal force and putting 36 rounds in a target at about 15'.

I'd call it a minimal burden.

bassman-dan
06-27-2007, 21:17
Don't know if it is still true, but the original regulations were pretty much a carbon copy of the Texas regs with a very few exceptions.
The refresher is pretty minimal considering you only have to do it every 4 years.

dfsutton
07-02-2007, 15:38
I received my CCW off of my DD214. And haven't had to go to the refresher training yet.

What will the cost of this "training" most likely run?

jurisglock
07-03-2007, 07:43
Originally posted by dfsutton
I received my CCW off of my DD214. And haven't had to go to the refresher training yet.

What will the cost of this "training" most likely run?

The renewal training typically costs the same as the initial training, although I suppose it depends on where you take the class. Mine was the cost of the regular class.