Stricter rules for PTCFOR [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Poodle
06-26-2007, 21:28
The recent news item on Comelec Official Lintang H. Bedol (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view_article.php?article_id=73211)has prompted the PNP to implement stricter rules on the issuance of PTC's. This info comes from a source in the PNP-FED. Pahirapan na naman. Balak ko pa naman ikuha yung G19.

crazy_hans
06-26-2007, 21:43
pahirapan nanaman or pataasan nanaman ng presyo?:thumbsup:

Wp.22
06-26-2007, 21:59
last friday i applied for ptcfor for my cousin 10.5k is the price. but for highpowered double the price/

Valor1
06-26-2007, 22:21
It's an old song to justify the increase in PTC fees. Hirap talaga ng hobby na ito. Photography na nga lang din ako.

horge
06-27-2007, 00:44
No, no, and no. :)

I saw the news conference held by PNP CSG-FED,
which was televised yesterday morning (T.S.I.P.), June 26.

FED honchos stated that the basic fees had not increased, and that
the real change to application procedures for a PTCFOR (CCW) was
that the sworn proofs of need (whether oustanding death threats or
whatever) now have to be cross-referenced and verified with
intelligence records in other departments. Dati kasi, verification
was done completely 'in-house'.

Of course, C-PNP discretion remains intact, so expect a lot of
applicants to effectively bypass the stricter screening process.
("Sabi ni Chief, bigyan daw, e. Maski kulang ang requirements...")

Of course, if the applicant has no verifiable need, and just wants
to "BUY" a PTCFOR, non-appearance style, e 'di mas mahal na nga
malamang, dahil mas madami na ang mga susuhulan.
Pinalalaganap ninyo kasi 'yang suhulan na 'yan, e.
:tongueout:

The bulk of the news-con dealt with the latest Loose Firearms Amnesty,
empowered by Executive Order 585, and awaiting a formal set of IRR's.
I don't expect the IRR to be any different from the last Amnesty's,
save that provincial HQ's are now going to do the ballistic
fingerprinting and stenciling (as needs be) for submitted loose
firearms, so the applicant can take home the firearms immediately
afterwards, under provisional license.

They showed off flowcharts of the process, at the newsconference.
Camp Crame FED HQ processes for any problems (crimewise) attached to
the firearms, based on provincial data, and within two weeks Crame
can kick plastic license cards out to the provincials for claiming.


E.O. 585 was issued December of last year:
http://www.gov.ph/news/default.asp?i=16748

Full text of E.O. 585:
EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 585
December 11, 2006

PROVIDING FOR THE SURRENDER AND LICENSING OF LOOSE FIREARMS
AND THE UTILIZATION OF FUNDS FROM THE PROCEEDS THEREOF

WHEREAS, despite the issuance of Executive Order Nos. 171 and 390, an
estimated 304,262 loose firearms remain to be accounted and licensed;

WHEREAS, it is consistent with the national interest that these loose
firearms be submitted for licensing end the holders of loose firearms
be encouraged and given an opportunity to obtain the required firearm
license;

WHEREAS, the purpose of the registration and licensing of looses
firearms will be accomplished if the appropriate technology and
resources are made available to exploit the firearm ballistic data
bank;

WHEREAS, it is the policy of the state tee encourage the use of IT
resources by governmental entities and offices in the delivery of
services to the public.

WHEREAS, Executive Order 171 was approved on January 22, 2003 to
address these issues but its implementation was limited due to the
COMELEC imposed gun ban during the election period of 2004;

WHEREAS, Executive Order 171 was extended thru Executive Order 390
but the duration was limited only to seven months;

WHEREAS, there is a need to implement another firearm amnesty program
to license all loose firearms in the possession of natural and
juridical persons who were not able to take advantage of EO 171 and
EO 390.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GLORIA MACAPAGAL-ARROYO, President of the Republic
of the Philippines, by virtue of the powers vested in me by law, do
hereby order;

SECTION 1. Any natural and juridical person who possess loose
firearms may surrender the same to the Philippine National Police for
custody and apply for the corresponding license as required by
existing laws within one (1) year from the effectivity of this Order,
excluding the election period (January 14, 2007 to June 13, 2007),
which was declared by the COMELEC pursuant to COMELEC Resolution
7707. Concerned holders of said firearms may avail of this amnesty
only within the period. Each firearm submitted for licensing shall
have its own distinct firearm description.

SECTION 2. As a general rule, high-powered rifles/paItik firearms may
not be allowed for licensing, however, the Chief, PNP may allow the
licensing of some high-powered firearms. Those who will surrender the
same will not be prosecuted for illegal possession of firearm while
in the act of surrendering the said firearms.

SECTION 3. An amnesty fee of Three Thousand Pesos (3,000.00) for High
Powered Firearms and Two Thousand Pesos (P2,000.00) for Low Powered
firearms, shall be collected for each firearm registered.

SECTION 4. Fees collected in Section 3, thereof shall be treated as a
Trust Liability end deposited in a Special Account in an Authorized
Government Depository Bank (AGDB) to support the nation-wide
implementation of the Firearms Information Management System (FIMS),
Firearms Records Management System and the Firearms Ballistic
Information System In the priority and any unexpended balance
therefrom, shall be reverted to the General Fund.

SECTION 5. The Firearms and Explosives Division (FED), Civil Security
Group (CSG), the Regional Offices and the Provincial/City Police
Offices of the PNP involved in the processing and registration of
loose firearms shall retain 20% of the gross proceeds of the
collection to Support their respective direct costs of licensing
operation.

SECTION 6. The Chief PNP shall issue such implementing Rules and
Regulations (IRR) that will effectively carryout the provisions of
the Executive Order subject to the approval/concurrence of the
Secretary of the Interior and Local Government,

SECTION 7. All orders, issuances, rules and regulations or parts
thereof inconsistent with this Executive Order are hereby repealed or
modified accordingly.

SECTION 8. This Order shall take effect immediately.

DONE in the City of Manila this 11th day of December , in the year of
Our Lord, Two Thousand and Six.

(Sgd.) GLORIA M. ARROYO

By the President:

(Sgd.) EDUARDO R. ERMITA
Executive Secretary


Keep in mind that the IRR for the EO has NOT yet been formally inked.
That's all I'm waiting for, before I begin including the EO in our
online repository of Philipine Firearms laws and issuances.

Keep also in mind that the PNP distinguishes between expired-license firearms, and
loose (never registered*) firearms.

horge


*at least, never registered since PNEMO 6 was issued in 1990,
which basically reset the national firearms register to zilch.

jimbullet
06-27-2007, 06:34
Sad to say that someone should first try to kill you and fail before you can have a CCW. What if the intent to harm you was successful...maybe we can get a CCW in the after life and protect ourself now...

I still believe in the old and still relevant saying:

Its better to have your firearm and not need it that to need it and dont have it.

horge
06-27-2007, 07:10
Pretty much, yes:
You almost have to survive an actual attempt on your life,
before the powers-that-be will consider allowing you the means
to defend yourself.

It is a mirror to the failure of Philippine law enforcement,
and of government in general, being reactive rather than proactive.
It is easier to enforce (and write) laws that address the effects
of crime, than laws that seek to prevent crime.

Law enforcement has yet to learn that enforcing law isn't often
reconcilable with protecting and serving the public.

HEAVY
06-27-2007, 08:31
Originally posted by horge


Keep also in mind that the PNP distinguishes between expired-license firearms, and
loose (never registered*) firearms.

horge


*at least, never registered since PNEMO 6 was issued in 1990,
which basically reset the national firearms register to zilch.

you're saying that if i bought a firearm before 1990 and never renewed, my firearm has no record in fed? that it's loose? that i can apply it for amnesty?

horge
06-27-2007, 16:44
Technically no, yes, yes, HEAVY. :)

If you haven't registered/licensed your (putative) firearm since 1990,
then the (putative) firearm isn't included yet in the present
register, and it is technically "loose".

However, that doesn't mean it's outside of .gov radar.
PNP-FED would still have trace evidence of such a firearm being
owned by you or yours, meaning they can eventually come a-knockin'
on your door about it, because they still have a copy of that old,
nullified register to refer to.

In a semi-related vein...
At the T.S.I.P. news con, the PNP brass commented on the unfairness
of the situation: those who NEVER registered get off scot free under
Amnesty, but those who at least TRIED to do things legitimately,
but failed to keep up with renewals, have to face a steep price in
backlogged licensing arrears. They said they were studying a waiver
on unpaid licensing fees, one that does not encourage a bad habit of
renewal-every-Amnesty only.

:)
Cheers,
horge

Wp.22
06-27-2007, 17:56
can i buy an ingram 9mm a license gun from another person. pwede ko ba ito kuhanan ng license sa FED or kailangan loose firearm muna tapos idaan sa amnesty program ng govt.?

{{EDIT: sorry pards, I had to edit that last part out :) - horge}}

isuzu
06-27-2007, 19:23
Originally posted by HEAVY
you're saying that if i bought a firearm before 1990 and never renewed, my firearm has no record in fed? that it's loose? that i can apply it for amnesty?

FED records were supposedly destroyed after the 1990 coup when several structures at Camp Crame and Camp Aguinaldo were bombed by "rebel" air forces. That's probably the reason why there was a re-registration of ALL firearms after that.

jimbullet
06-27-2007, 21:49
I recall the paper thats supposed to be the license had across it an print "re-registered". If they dont have it, chances are its already loose

chocoboy
06-28-2007, 00:00
Originally posted by jimbullet
Sad to say that someone should first try to kill you and fail before you can have a CCW. What if the intent to harm you was successful...maybe we can get a CCW in the after life and protect ourself now...

I still believe in the old and still relevant saying:

Its better to have your firearm and not need it that to need it and dont have it.


+1 :laughabove:

Evan N. Payawal
06-28-2007, 02:44
Section 2 states that, in general, high powered FAs shall not be registered.
The Chief PNP may allow "some" to be registered.

So if you bring a HP FA for amnesty, no guarantees that it won't be confiscated? The PNP pretty much just decides if they decide to give it back to you or not?

In that case, how many loose HP FAs out there will be brought in for amnesty?

Good luck...kinda defeats the purpose of an amnesty.

MERCMADE
07-01-2007, 03:27
Originally posted by Evan N. Payawal
Section 2 states that, in general, high powered FAs shall not be registered.
The Chief PNP may allow "some" to be registered.

So if you bring a HP FA for amnesty, no guarantees that it won't be confiscated? The PNP pretty much just decides if they decide to give it back to you or not?

In that case, how many loose HP FAs out there will be brought in for amnesty?

Good luck...kinda defeats the purpose of an amnesty.

correct!

If its called an amnesty then it shouldnt matter, no matter what.
patawa talaga e.
but one thing you can do is have your range or a gun dealer or someone who works for crame, check if your firearm is "loose but registerable through the amnesty".

{{*sorry, pards, had to edit that last part out :) - horge }}

horge
07-01-2007, 06:35
Okay, *moderator hat on*.

Criticism of standing laws and regulations falls under free speech,
but let's all be more cautious in how we say we will/won't act
with respect to the laws and regulations of the Republic.

:)

atmarcella
07-04-2007, 23:58
Originally posted by Wp.22
can i buy an ingram 9mm

bro,

dont buy that gun, we tested an ingram once and we could not even hit the ipsc board at 10m...at 3 yes, but it goes to show how bad the accuracy of that gun is;)

Kaiser Soze
07-05-2007, 00:10
Originally posted by atmarcella
bro,

dont buy that gun, we tested an ingram once and we could not even hit the ipsc board at 10m...at 3 yes, but it goes to show how bad the accuracy of that gun is;)

I have to agree with you here sir! The Ingram is a very inaccurate pistol on fullauto, and it's a mediocre performer on semi.

It does have its uses though, it can be used to lay down suppressive fire during situations that need a "gulatan" approach to it.

Avoid autopistols if you can, best to go for a better submachine gun like an MP5 or a fullsized Uzi if you really need it.

atmarcella
07-05-2007, 00:13
micro uzi nalang, plato at 20m kayang kaya...