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Punctilious1
07-08-2007, 19:46
I went to the Gibraltar Trade Center gun show this afternoon. I brought along a H&K USPc that I'm looking to trade. As you know I had to "check in" the gun with the guy at the door so he could tag it. I was pissed when the moron opened the case and proceeded to point the muzzle directly at me and everyone else in line, and astonished when he turned it toward himself and looked down the barrel! He put on this little show before checking that it was unloaded and locking the slide back (which I practically had to show him how to do). Unbelievable...

Oh, and I came home with NOTHING! They had some good prices on ammo though, next time...

Hailstorm
07-08-2007, 20:02
Yep, I was asked if had a firearm. Since they are not police. I lied. :supergrin:

It makes no sense to disarm someone by handling a gun in a crowed place with. It won't go off in my holster. But, when its handled. It could.

JohnJak
07-09-2007, 05:04
Was there on Saturday and also lied about carrying. When you look at the people checking them in, kinda scares me. Besides every moron that has put the plastic strap on the trigger seems to tighten it up enough (100 lbs + of tugging) to bend my trigger bows. I took my S/S 1911 one time and the gentleman took his little clippers to remove and put a scratch on the frame then denied it when I told him. Sorry you will not handle my guns anymore. Oh by the way met Centennial there and spent some $$ on a AR stripped lower. His prices are very hard to beat and on top of all that he is a very nice person to deal with. So next time there stop and say Hi. John

Hailstorm
07-09-2007, 05:16
I was so tempted to get a lower. I mean for $115 its is hard to beat. The thought was to buy two. One for each one of my sons. But, I figured not yet. Besides, I think they will want to pick out their own. You know kids. :upeyes:

centennial
07-09-2007, 05:47
It was great to meet both of you!
I appreciate the kind words!

Hailstorm
07-09-2007, 05:48
Hey,it was good. And yes, that was one weird pistol. If I ever find some 8mm. Its coming your way.:supergrin:

oily_oink
07-09-2007, 08:57
Originally posted by Punctilious1
I came home with NOTHING!

Me too! The past couple of times I went to that gun show looking for a pistol, I left in disgust. I don't bother with it anymore. I can get better prices elsewhere.

To avoid any problems with the gun checker, I don't carry at the gun show. NO WAY would I hand them my pistol to fondle! Nor would I like to violate any laws by being dishonest with them about having a pistol & telling them "NO" I do not.

Maybe if they had a Certified Police Officer doing the checking???

Hailstorm
07-09-2007, 11:44
Have you seen how some COPS handle guns? Doesn't make me happy.

WarpSpeed
07-10-2007, 20:31
I've seen too much dangerous gun handling over the years, much less guns fumbled and scratched with the cutters.

If I'm bringing in a gun to trade/sell, I'll ziptie it myself ahead of time, take it out of the case and show them it's cleared.....while it's in my hands.

Turtle13
07-11-2007, 19:34
When I was new to guns a few years back (new to owning, not shooting) I didn't know about the common courtesy of opening the action to hand a gun off. Now its become a peeve of mine if someone tries handing me a gun without opening the action.

bassplayer
07-11-2007, 20:33
Originally posted by Hailstorm
Have you seen how some COPS handle guns? Doesn't make me happy.

Hide your dogs! :supergrin:

Tim13
07-15-2007, 13:23
The Gibralter Trade Center is likely considered an entertainment venue with a seating capacity of over 2500, which means that carrying a pistol inside on a plain vanilla CPL was a no-no.


I've heard that the GTC funshow is the best one in the state. I'm glad that I didn't make the trip out from the west side of the state, and waste my time.

I usually only go if I'm looking for several specific items. The $6 admission is like paying once for shipping, and the prices for most accessories are the same as they are online, only I get to see them before I buy them.

Tim

Criphunter44
07-16-2007, 05:27
Hey guys,
Where was the show, Taylor or Mt. Clemens? I need to pick up a few things and was waiting for the one in Mt. Clemens. Any one know when the next MC one is?

Thanks.

centennial
07-16-2007, 06:48
Next Mt Clemens show is August 10-11-12

MichiganPython
07-16-2007, 07:33
Originally posted by Tim13
The Gibralter Trade Center is likely considered an entertainment venue with a seating capacity of over 2500, which means that carrying a pistol inside on a plain vanilla CPL was a no-no.
Tim


Just wondering, if this is true, shouldn't it posted as NO CCW?

centennial
07-16-2007, 07:39
It's not an entertainment venue. It's a shopping center.

Criphunter44
07-16-2007, 08:39
Originally posted by centennial
Next Mt Clemens show is August 10-11-12

Thanks centennial,

I'll see you there.

Fritzer
07-16-2007, 15:05
Here is their web site schedule:

http://www.gibraltartrade.com (http://www.gibraltartrade.com/Michigan_Show_Expo_Events.html)

Tim13
07-16-2007, 21:40
Michigan doesn't have provisions for "no CCW" signs in the law. The actual wording of the Michigan CPL law with regard to pistol free zones is: "An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more."

I guarantee you that the GTC has a licensed seating capacity in excess of 2500 people based on it's square footage. The GTC has hosted other events in the past, including boxing and wrestling, so I think that most people would/should reasonably know that the facility will hold at least 2500 people in its 50,000 square feet.

All that I'm saying is that, personally, I wouldn't risk my CPL by carrying in the GTC. Their request at the very least makes it trespassing if they catch you resulting in removal from the facility, and at the worst, you get busted by the police for violating the CPL law.

I know that at the Grand Rapids gun show, they actually stat in the "no concealed pistols allowed" signs that the facility has a seating capacity in excess of 2500 people. Does the GTC signage say the same thing?

Tim

mikedb
07-21-2007, 20:49
Originally posted by Tim13
The Gibralter Trade Center is likely considered an entertainment venue with a seating capacity of over 2500, which means that carrying a pistol inside on a plain vanilla CPL was a no-no.


I've heard that the GTC funshow is the best one in the state. I'm glad that I didn't make the trip out from the west side of the state, and waste my time.

I usually only go if I'm looking for several specific items. The $6 admission is like paying once for shipping, and the prices for most accessories are the same as they are online, only I get to see them before I buy them.

Tim

If it is an entertainment facility then so is Walmart by the same reasoning. I dont see any chairs.

john_glock_mi
07-22-2007, 10:11
GTC is listed as being a no CCW facility per the MCRGO web site.

Tim13
07-22-2007, 22:12
Originally posted by mikedb
If it is an entertainment facility then so is Walmart by the same reasoning. I dont see any chairs.


:rofl: Yeah, tell that one to the cop when he's disarming you. I'm sure that he'll get a chuckle out of that one.

Tim

caz223
07-24-2007, 16:13
Yeah, it's posted on the door that it seats 2500 people or more, and it's a gun show, I wonder who that 2500 people or more sign was for?
That's a nice way of saying NO CCW without invoking rightous indignation and/or conscientious objector behavior.

coverdog
07-25-2007, 08:47
Originally posted by caz223
Yeah, it's posted on the door that it seats 2500 people or more, and it's a gun show, I wonder who that 2500 people or more sign was for?



It's the law to have capacity posted for the fire marshals and building code. All commercial buildings open to the public for such purposes are required to have the capacity posted.

caz223
07-25-2007, 11:32
Yes, but, it says '2500 people or more' not the exact seating capacity, or what the fire chief rated it at....

Tim13
07-25-2007, 20:41
I could care less if someone wants to challenge the 2500 or more seating capacity of the GTC, and risk their CPL privileges. I think that the average person would know that a 50,000 sqft. building can hold at least 2500 people. You can justify it any way that you want, but I doubt that playing dumb would get you out of trouble if you got busted. Not only that, but they specifically post the seating capacity as greater than 2500 removing any ambiguity, AND, they ask if you have any firearms with you before you enter. I don't think that playing dumb with the 2500 person rule, and then not telling the truth about having a concealed pistol will garner you much sympathy from the police.

Tim

bigjim
08-02-2007, 14:57
Originally posted by Tim13
:rofl: Yeah, tell that one to the cop when he's disarming you. I'm sure that he'll get a chuckle out of that one.

Tim

Exactly how will the cop, or anyone else, know I have a gun?

There is some precedent on this. Granholm herself ruled against either the Detroit Zoo or the Metroparks, one or the other, who were trying to say they were covered under the entertainment facility exclusion because more than 2500 people could sit on the ground.

It would seem that if the Trade Center could say they were thus excluded, so could a mall or a store the size of Wal-Mart, and this has never been attempted. Some malls have posted themselves as private property, but this is not the same thing.

Attorney General Opinion 7120:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10195.htm

Partial text:

A reading of all the words contained in section 5o(1)(f) of the Act supports the conclusion that the Legislature intended that the term "entertainment facility" constitute a structure or building that has a known seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons, or that has signs above each public entrance stating that the facility has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons. Since the Legislature has not required that an entertainment facility be totally self-enclosed, such a facility could consist of a bandshell, amphitheater, or similar structure, provided it has the required, known seating capacity noted above or has appropriate signage above each public entrance indicating a seating capacity of 2,500 or more. This reading of section 5o(1)(f) is supported by the legislative history of 2000 HB 4530, enacted as 2000 PA 231. Both House Legislative Analyses, HB 4530, June 8, 1999, and January 4, 2001, state that HB 4530 would "[p]rohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed weapon in certain public places, such as a school, theater, sports arena, library, or hospital." There is no mention in either bill analysis that an outdoor recreation park, by itself, would constitute a gun-free zone. It is appropriate to rely on the legislative history because of the ambiguity in the statutory language. Luttrell v Dep't of Corr, 421 Mich 93, 103; 365 NW2d 74 (1985).

wizzi01
08-02-2007, 15:41
The law is seating capacity. Not the venue going and renting 2500+ chairs and say looks we can seat 2500+. If only Cobo Hall and the county/city could get the law straight. That way I would actually go to the autoshow.