F1 in Indy is dead...

[boilergonzo]

They announced today that the F1 race is dead. Perhaps there is still time, but Bernie had better wake up fast and realize that this is his best shot at the U.S. market. Hopefully Toyota, Mercedes, Ferrari, and Honda let Bernie know his stupidity is limiting their advertising dollars.

This was a great race for our city, and it is sad to see someone like Bernie think he can make more money in Las Vegas (or Phoenix, or Detroit...). Indy was the best shot, and he blew it!

I'm no fan of George and the open wheel split (which I place lots of blame on Tony), but in this case, I think Bernie E is to blame.

Sigh...

[FThorn]

I'm going to play devil's advocate. Why isn't a street course better for F1? Like miami or LA, or such?

Wouldn't Miami, being a more international flair, have a lot more pent-up demand?

I like the race being here...but again, who cares because I've never spent a buck on autoracing. I am not their target market.

[notasccrmom]

While the facility is nice, and about as convenient as it gets, I think it is not the optimum venue for any type of road racing. There are many tracks in the US that would be far better places for F1, both spectators and drivers/teams. Places such as Road America and Road Atlanta come to mind. They have more interesting layouts, elevation changes, plenty of shade, and lots of character.

It doesn't get much worse than a circle track that's been temporarily converted to a road course in my book.

[hgiles]

When Europeans think 'America' nothing in their minds resemble Indianapolis.

However, I do like F1 and hope to keep an F1 race in America.

[boilergonzo]

F1 has tried that. In the U.S. they don't have the fan base. They need a track with credibility, cash, international clout, and history to make it fly. It was a VERY well-attended race by F1 standards. Most tracks draw far fewer. That isn't to say they had Brickyard or 500 sized crowds, but the attendance was actually quite good DESPITE tire fiascos and bickering that drove off fans.

Miami is like LA... both have glitz and glamor. Both are international destinations. But both have a glaring history of not doing a great job supporting their teams and sports. Indianapolis has a lot of racing fans of all varieties. The track (despite complaints) is world class. The ones complaining loudest about the track are the ones who have had the most problems. Michelin blasted it, several drivers who have repeatedly failed to finish have grumbled about the speeds, and Bernie is greedy to the point of having the teams considering leaving F1 and starting their own league (this has been festering for years!).

F1 had finally found a loving home, but they ran away, drawn by the promises of crack cocaine or crystal meth. It is a shame, because I loved the technology and innovation these cars brought. I will miss them. I have also written about ten sponsors letting them know their advertising in F1 is no longer targeting the U.S. effectively (Toyota, Honda, Ferrari, Mercedes, Seiko, Tag Heuer, Gatorade, Budweiser, IBM, Hilton U.S., Dell, Red Bull, and ING all rely heavily on the U.S. market, which F1 just left). At least two of those entities had big press releases touting the U.S. presence and visibility via F1 to U.S. F1 fans as their target audience (Hilton and Mercedes).

[epsylum]

Originally posted by boilergonzo
F1 has tried that. In the U.S. they don't have the fan base. They need a track with credibility, cash, international clout, and history to make it fly. It was a VERY well-attended race by F1 standards. Most tracks draw far fewer. That isn't to say they had Brickyard or 500 sized crowds, but the attendance was actually quite good DESPITE tire fiascos and bickering that drove off fans.

Miami is like LA... both have glitz and glamor. Both are international destinations. But both have a glaring history of not doing a great job supporting their teams and sports. Indianapolis has a lot of racing fans of all varieties. The track (despite complaints) is world class. The ones complaining loudest about the track are the ones who have had the most problems. Michelin blasted it, several drivers who have repeatedly failed to finish have grumbled about the speeds, and Bernie is greedy to the point of having the teams considering leaving F1 and starting their own league (this has been festering for years!).

F1 had finally found a loving home, but they ran away, drawn by the promises of crack cocaine or crystal meth. It is a shame, because I loved the technology and innovation these cars brought. I will miss them. I have also written about ten sponsors letting them know their advertising in F1 is no longer targeting the U.S. effectively (Toyota, Honda, Ferrari, Mercedes, Seiko, Tag Heuer, Gatorade, Budweiser, IBM, Hilton U.S., Dell, Red Bull, and ING all rely heavily on the U.S. market, which F1 just left). At least two of those entities had big press releases touting the U.S. presence and visibility via F1 to U.S. F1 fans as their target audience (Hilton and Mercedes).

:agree:

This announcement sucks for me. While more elevation changes are fun to watch, but look at most F1 tracks, they are pretty flat. IMO this track had a good combination of speed (the longetst full throttle section of the whole year) and some good infield turns.

However one door closes and another opens. Coming Sept. of 2008..... MotoGP!!! :banana: :banana:

[fire1035]

I honestly don't think this is as big of a loss as the news is making it out to be. Unlike the 500 which has been growing in recent years the USGP continues to get smaller each year. Oh well. Bring on MotoGP!

[IMHerDad]

i say bring em to Talledaga and lets see run a real track! :animlol:

[KSFreeman]

Ummmm, no, we won't be doing that. It's bad enough that those people come here.

Business decision, I can accept that. Afterall, IMS is not a charity despite what some yeehaws think.:upeyes:

I hope F1 reconsiders (i.e. the sponsors lean on Bernie) and is back shortly.:hugs:

[boilergonzo]

Despite my sadness at the F1 loss, I am thankful Tony doesn't lean on the city for cash (like all other cash sports seem to). He couldn't make money with Bernie's greed in the way, so he did what he had to do. Good business, not purely driven by emotion and begging.

I do think the bikes will be cool to see, but downtown was fun and felt almost like an international destination during the USGP. Every time I went, several groups around me were from far away. They cross oceans to be here. When I go the the 500 or Brickyard, the vast majority seem to be Indiana residents. Sure, a few travel long distances, but the F1 race seemed to have more non-Hoosiers than hoosiers.

[Rikki]

If it's all about $ for TG then he oughta open that road course up for the NASCAR boys- Nascar on the Brickyard's roadcourse would sell out in about 4 minutes.
After that tire related BS a couple years ago I wouldn't wipe my @ZZ
on a F-1 ticket.

[fire1035]

Originally posted by Rikki
If it's all about $ for TG then he oughta open that road course up for the NASCAR boys- Nascar on the Brickyard's roadcourse would sell out in about 4 minutes.
After that tire related BS a couple years ago I wouldn't wipe my @ZZ
on a F-1 ticket.

I said that a couple of years ago. Put up some lights and run a night time road race with the NASCAR kids. It's gonna be fun.

[KSFreeman]

boiler, exactly, new money being pumped into the economy. Unlike the NASCAR money from far off Whiteland.:animlol:

[epsylum]

Originally posted by boilergonzo
I do think the bikes will be cool to see, but downtown was fun and felt almost like an international destination during the USGP. Every time I went, several groups around me were from far away. They cross oceans to be here. When I go the the 500 or Brickyard, the vast majority seem to be Indiana residents. Sure, a few travel long distances, but the F1 race seemed to have more non-Hoosiers than hoosiers.

Exactly. My uncles came into town every year for it (from OK and LA). They spent lots of money eating out at nice restaurants every night. We have met lots of people from all over the world while out and about during the race weekend. It made Indy feel like a real international destination. The 500 and Brickyard (sorry, Allstate 400 :upeyes: ) do not do that.

BTW for those who don't know. MotoGP is the motorcycle version of F1 (i.e. the fastest bikes around a track in the world and the best riders). The current reigning champ is from the far off land of...... Kentucky. There have been far more winning MotoGP riders from the US than in F1 (Nicky Hayden, Kenny Roberts Jr., Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Kenny Roberts Sr., etc.)

[KSFreeman]

From Kentucky huh? I hope we approve his entry visa.:rofl:

Bring on MotoGP!:banana:

[boilergonzo]

I am not currently a fan of MotoGP, but am willing to take a look!

The ESPN article pretty much sums it up. Indy as an international F1 news story is done, as the theft from Ferrari of several critical documents by McLaren (pages and PC's found in the chief designer's house) is huge corporate espionage and F1 news. International lawsuits loom, and Lewis (victim) and McLaren (alleged thieves) are in deep doo-doo.

NASCAR could not run the current infield course. It would just be silly. Perhaps with modifications removing the tightest turns it could be made into a viable track, but then MotoGP loses out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=6&columnist=blount_terry&id=2934447&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=6&id=2932714

Bernie either has gotten lucky with the timing of this, or helped time this. Who knows?

[epsylum]

Originally posted by boilergonzo
I am not currently a fan of MotoGP, but am willing to take a look!

The ESPN article pretty much sums it up. Indy as an international F1 news story is done, as the theft from Ferrari of several critical documents by McLaren (pages and PC's found in the chief designer's house) is huge corporate espionage and F1 news. International lawsuits loom, and Lewis (victim) and McLaren (alleged thieves) are in deep doo-doo.

NASCAR could not run the current infield course. It would just be silly. Perhaps with modifications removing the tightest turns it could be made into a viable track, but then MotoGP loses out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=6&columnist=blount_terry&id=2934447&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=6&id=2932714

Bernie either has gotten lucky with the timing of this, or helped time this. Who knows?

Wow! I did not hear about that. Man, that has to suck for Lewis Hamilton (finding out his victories may have been because his team was cheating).

BTW my uncle said that Bernie is even thinking about taking the GP away from England (his home country) because they won't pay the stupid amounts of money he wants. What a greedy SOB. The manufacturers need to put him in his place. I like F1, but hate Bernie with all the hate I can muster.

[Shooting Alpha's]

Originally posted by KSFreeman
Ummmm, no, we won't be doing that. It's bad enough that those people come here.

Business decision, I can accept that. Afterall, IMS is not a charity despite what some yeehaws think.:upeyes:

I hope F1 reconsiders (i.e. the sponsors lean on Bernie) and is back shortly.:hugs:

:agree:

[TLHelmer]

I am sorry that you race fans lost one of your favorite races. I really am. Especially you Eric. I have to admit that I am not mad. It is just one more race I don't have to work. Races may be fun for you guys, but they suck to those of us who have to work them.

Here is a little known fact. No one reimburses the state for all the officers that work those races. That comes straight out of the state budget. I couldn't believe that no one pays the state back for all those races when all that money is being made by several private entities.

[Rikki]

"no one pays the state back for all those races when all that money is being made by several private entities."

Those "several private companies" are paying property taxes,income taxes on the corporations,payroll taxes, and putting on events that bring in-guess what- more taxes on tickets.

Start charging the Indiana Black Expo first-see how that works out and then we can talk.

[rhino465]

Is it true that the influx of cash from the F1 race was higher than the 500 or the Brickyard, allegedly because F1 fans spend a lot more per person than do the fans of the Indy/Nascar racing?

I've heard that from fans and read stuff that agrees with it, but I don't know.

I heard on the radio that the F1 race actually generated more revenues than what is projected for hosting a superbowl. If that's true, it seems like it would be a good thing to keep an F1 race in Indianapolis if it were possible.

[TLHelmer]

Races in other states are paid for by the private entities making the money off the event. I don't know what the total cost is to the state, but a couple of years ago they cut the reporting time back by two hours and saved over 40,000 dollars. I am not asking for more money as an officer, but these events have grown in size over the years and so has the cost to the state, city and county.

I wouldn't have a problem charging the Black Expo either. Think about the drain on the districts that dont have personnel for the three days surrounding the events because their people are all in Indy.

[boilergonzo]

Hey, Trev! So comparing the three races (500/Brickyard/F1), do you guys dread one more than the other due to crowd size or fan attitudes? Or is it just a function of how hot it is? Body armor for traffic control detail, or take your chances to beat the heat?

I am surprised no one helps formally foot the bill. I understand those places pay taxes, but Eli Lilly pays a heck of a lot of taxes and doesn't need Harleys, horses, and human feet at every major intersection. If an event requires officers to manually control intersection signals and babysit drunks, one would think the event would help defray some of those costs.

The city buses don't take people to the race for free...

[boby]

I defiantly did not like working the F1 race. I think I drank about 15 bottles of water and a few bottles of gadorate. When I got home, I couldn't take my uniform off as it was literally stuck to my skin. That was one HOT day...

The F1 fans thankfully were not very rowdy. The 500 fans quite frankly pissed me off. They would not pay attention while driving, would not use cross walks, and were just rude for the most part. Then on outbound everyone is drunk so its pretty terrifying to stand in the middle of the street with them zooming by you. A vehicle came down 30th street throwing beer bottles at pedestrians... Some kids got arrested for throwing objects at cars. Lets not forget the ever classic "Its ok for me to stop in the middle of the intersection and ask the nice police man for directions. I'm sure the 1500 cars behind me have no where to go."

Never worked the Brickyard before, guess I'll find out how that is soon.

P.S. I wear my body armor no matter what is going on. Body armor not only helps with bullets but other trauma such as getting hit by a car. I think the advantage is worth the heat. It smells funkier than George Clinton when you get home though.

[boilergonzo]

Mmmmmm... funky armor smell. I can only imagine!

Boby... which department are you with? I live in Greenfield and didn't know if you were local, Indy, State, etc. If you prefer not to say, that's fine.

[R. Emmelman]

Originally posted by boby
... snip ...

P.S. I wear my body armor no matter what is going on. Body armor not only helps with bullets but other trauma such as getting hit by a car. I think the advantage is worth the heat. It smells funkier than George Clinton when you get home though.
So being an ignorant civi, can you wash body armor?

[boby]

Originally posted by boilergonzo
Mmmmmm... funky armor smell. I can only imagine!

Boby... which department are you with? I live in Greenfield and didn't know if you were local, Indy, State, etc. If you prefer not to say, that's fine.

I'm in the Civilian Volunteer Police unit for IMPD. We basically just direct traffic and assist with DUI checkpoints. We don't have any arrest powers and only carry mace, radio, pager, and cuffs. Every once in awhile we get to do something cool and help with an arrest but its pretty rare.

You can tell who's a CVP by the lack of gun and our light blue uniforms. We drive crown vics with the Bart Peterson logo on the side instead of the police logo. I imagine you have seen a few if you have been to any events downtown or any races.

The 400 will be the last detail I work. I leave for the Coast Guard August 24th :)

Originally posted by R. Emmelman
So being an ignorant civi, can you wash body armor?

Hey don't worry I'm a civi too! Body armor now days pretty much always has a washable carrier. Basically there is a replaceable fabric carrier and the actual ballistic panels fit inside of the carrier. Still the stench is quite powerful. I don't know what exactly causes it but wow is it funky!

[TLHelmer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by boby
[B]
The F1 fans thankfully were not very rowdy. The 500 fans quite frankly pissed me off. They would not pay attention while driving, would not use cross walks, and were just rude for the most part. Then on outbound everyone is drunk so its pretty terrifying to stand in the middle of the street with them zooming by you. A vehicle came down 30th street throwing beer bottles at pedestrians... Some kids got arrested for throwing objects at cars. Lets not forget the ever classic "Its ok for me to stop in the middle of the intersection and ask the nice police man for directions. I'm sure the 1500 cars behind me have no where to go."

Exactly! If you from southern Indiana it is a 20 to 21 hour day. I have been hit by cars twice. Once at the Indy race and once at the brickyard race.

The F1 people are party the least. I think the 500 and the Brickyard fans are about equal in partying. The first couple of years the Brickyard fans were all about the race, but I think the party mood has reached equilibrium.

[KSFreeman]

A rowdy F1 fan? What would be considered rowdy to an F1 fan? Maybe two glasses of wine at dinner and then an expensive cigar on the patio before he calls his stockbroker?:supergrin:

Welcome MotoGP!!!:banana:

[boilergonzo]

Hit by cars twice... yikes! Said so calmly.

Sort've like the guy I used to work with who used to deliver meat in New York City. He admitted the corruption was high, and was aware that theft and resale of meat via certain organized "groups" happened. He very casually said "I've only been shot at twice." and continued with the focus of the story (double parking and driving on sidewalks).

Ummmm... perhaps this is the Indiana in my talking, but glossing over that caused me to blink in surprise!

Hit by cars twice. Be careful, and hopefully drivers drive better.

[boby]

Were the drivers drunk? If not, WOW! :shocked:

[TLHelmer]

One was drunk and the other was just stupid and jumping lines of traffic. Didn't get hurt too bad either time because traffic was too heavy for them to get going too fast. I ended up on the hood of the drunks car.

We do make some arrests at the F1 race, but they are almost always Americans.

[boby]

Originally posted by TLHelmer
One was drunk and the other was just stupid and jumping lines of traffic. Didn't get hurt too bad either time because traffic was too heavy for them to get going too fast. I ended up on the hood of the drunks car.

We do make some arrests at the F1 race, but they are almost always Americans.

Ah ok. Good to hear your ok. I always try and stand out of the road when I can on outbound. Just to many drunk to risk it.

What a surprise they are Americans. I didn't help with any arrests at the F1 but I defiantly did at the 500. Wonder how the 400 will go...

[TLHelmer]

I had gate 7 for several years. We send all lanes south on Georgetown Road and there is no place safe to stand. You will have to be between lanes of moving vehicles.:shocked:

Now I am assigned the night before policing detail.

[boby]

Yikes, I had 30th and Lafayette and then 30th and then 30th and Kessler during outbound so I was able to stand out of traffic most of the time. The rain sure was fun wasn't it?

[TLHelmer]

The night before detail is great. We don't have to direct traffic. We just arrest drunks the night before the detail. It is a double shift at least because of drive time.

[boby]

Originally posted by TLHelmer
The night before detail is great. We don't have to direct traffic. We just arrest drunks the night before the detail. It is a double shift at least because of drive time.

Yea I had the chance to work that as a CVP but I had some family stuff to do. Kind of wish I had done it, everyone said it was alot of fun.