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passive101
07-17-2007, 13:16
Are there any legal signs that mean you can't ccw in Florida like other states have? I went to a gun store yesterday and there was a sign that said NO GUNS, NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS or it might have said NO GUNS OR NO CONCEALED WEAPONS. I'm not 100% sure.

Does that mean I would be in breach of FL law if I carried into that store, or are those signs pointless to legal ccw permit holders and refer to illegal concealed carry?

I know from reading other threads that if someone sees you have a gun and asks you or tells you to leave you must do so or he can then call the police.

rvrctyrngr
07-17-2007, 13:43
Signs carry no legal weight in Florida. The statute (790) lists the (few) places where it is illegal to carry. Learn it. If you carry in a place that is legal but 'posted' and they ask you to leave, leave. Otherwise, it's armed tresspass.

passive101
07-17-2007, 14:01
paperwork was right then :)

thank you.

rvrctyrngr
07-17-2007, 14:21
No problemo.

The LIST:
(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

geekboy
07-17-2007, 14:37
Originally posted by passive101
Are there any legal signs that mean you can't ccw in Florida like other states have? I went to a gun store yesterday and there was a sign that said NO GUNS, NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS or it might have said NO GUNS OR NO CONCEALED WEAPONS. I'm not 100% sure.

Does that mean I would be in breach of FL law if I carried into that store, or are those signs pointless to legal ccw permit holders and refer to illegal concealed carry?

I know from reading other threads that if someone sees you have a gun and asks you or tells you to leave you must do so or he can then call the police. Like rvrctyrngr wrote, signs have no weight or power of law in Florida.

Having said that, most gun shops and ranges don't like loaded weapons in their store for safety reasons. Fear of a robbery comes to mind too. But how can the put a sign that reads "NO GUNS" when people bring their guns in... for repair or trade?

Always a funny sign to have at a gun store. It would be like having a sign at the entrance of a parking lot reading "No Cars Allowed"

Droanx
07-21-2007, 04:54
All the ranges I patron say "Weapons to be used on the range, trade ins, or repair work must be unloaded and safe" Or something to that affect. I asked the owners of the ranges about it. They both said that if you don't intend to shoot or take out your weapon and you are properly permitted they don't care if you carry. As a matter of fact they WANT you to carry in their stores.

Two different ranges BTW

itsnitro
07-21-2007, 05:03
Originally posted by geekboy
Like rvrctyrngr wrote, signs have no weight or power of law in Florida.

Having said that, most gun shops and ranges don't like loaded weapons in their store for safety reasons. Fear of a robbery comes to mind too. But how can the put a sign that reads "NO GUNS" when people bring their guns in... for repair or trade?

Always a funny sign to have at a gun store. It would be like having a sign at the entrance of a parking lot reading "No Cars Allowed"

I believe the sign reads "No Loaded Concealed weapons" not "NO GUNS"
because then I agree with your statement.

passive101
07-21-2007, 12:12
The guy has girls for guns. A pink .25 Taurus semi auto with pink pearl grips that my g/f wants now for a ccw gun. I'm sure I'll be back to check it out :banana:

AggieMax
09-07-2007, 14:01
Guys, I am vacationing in Florida next week. I have read the above reference statute. What are the rules concerning Disney world? Also, if the place is not listed in the 790 statute, what constitutes a valid warning prohibiting concealed carry on the property?

Thanks for the help.

geekboy
09-07-2007, 14:42
Originally posted by AggieMax
Guys, I am vacationing in Florida next week. I have read the above reference statute. What are the rules concerning Disney world? Also, if the place is not listed in the 790 statute, what constitutes a valid warning prohibiting concealed carry on the property?

Thanks for the help. Signs have no power or weight of law. You are welcome to carry at WDW so long as you do not expose your weapon or get made by Security. If you expose it or are made, Disney will take you to the security office and ask you to check the weapon with security, place the weapon in your car, or leave the property post haste. If you refuse, they will issue you a trespass warning in front of a Deputy Sheriff. If you don't leave after the warning... you get a pair of shiny bracelets (armed trespass). If you're issued a trespass warning, you will no longer be welcome on Disney property... they can ban you for hours, days, months, years, forever.

Having said that, no one has had trouble at Disney. I carry there all the time and have not been made or exposed. People who have been made or exposed were asked to check the weapon with security or place it in their car. I've only heard of one out-of-state law enforcement officer who got trespassed. He apparently refused to leave and said he was an LEO. He apparently didn't understand property rights in Florida. Disney only allows LEOs with jurisdiction to carry in their parks. :) (However, I don't know how LEOSA applies to that situation today.)

Regarding a "valid" warning. In order to warn you in Florida, the person in control of the property must verbally warn you or issue you a letter. I am always hard pressed to find any sign at WDW that prohibits weapons of any kind... I've never found one myself.

So long as your permit is valid for Florida, you're ok at Disney World, until you're trespassed. If you want, you can check your weapon with security in the park you're visiting. They'll give you a locker.

rvrctyrngr
09-07-2007, 14:44
AggieMax,

As posted in this thread...there are NO 'legally valid' signs that can be posted in FL. Nothing like the 30.06 signs in Texas.

Signs carry NO weight of law. If a place has a 'Defense Free' sign, and you carry there, and you are discovered, all they can do is ask you to leave. If you are asked to leave, LEAVE. Otherwise, you can be charged with armed tresspass.

As for the theme parks....they are ALL 'posted'. Carry is perfectly legal in all of them.

They will do cursory searches of anything of-body (bags, waistpacks, strollers, etc...). They will not search your person (haven't yet, anyway). Carry on your body, be discreet, and have a blast!

All that being said...if an establishment is not specifically listed as 'off limits' in 790.06, it is legal to carry there.

Have a GREAT vacation, and thanks for your contribution to our tax base!

Gmountain
09-07-2007, 20:23
Originally posted by AggieMax
Guys, I am vacationing in Florida next week. I have read the above reference statute. What are the rules concerning Disney world? Also, if the place is not listed in the 790 statute, what constitutes a valid warning prohibiting concealed carry on the property?

Thanks for the help.
Remember, Disney is no different than any other shopping mall. Well, you do pay almost $75 to get in :supergrin:

Stay out of the bars in there though. Keep your gun on you, not in a back pack or, God forbid, a fanny pack. You won't have any problems.

I'm not sure what you mean by warning. There really is no such thing. If someone wants you to leave, they tell you. If you don't go, they call the cops. You should never get to that point. If someone asks you to leave, then just leave.

They can ask you to leave for any reason, btw, and if you don't go, then you are trespassing. It could be for the way you dress or the color of your hair. Private property is private property.

AggieMax
09-07-2007, 22:05
Great information guys, thank you very much.

One more point of clarification about the areas that are dispensing alcohol. If I go into a restaurant such as Chili's or TGIFriday's which has a bar, does that mean that I am legal to carry in the restaurant portion, just don't cut through the bar area?

Thanks again,

Deron

beer goggles
09-07-2007, 22:36
Originally posted by AggieMax
Great information guys, thank you very much.

One more point of clarification about the areas that are dispensing alcohol. If I go into a restaurant such as Chili's or TGIFriday's which has a bar, does that mean that I am legal to carry in the restaurant portion, just don't cut through the bar area?

Thanks again,

Deron

Yes, as long as the you are not in the area that is mainly devoted to serving alcohol you are fine.

rich52us
09-08-2007, 05:13
Originally posted by AggieMax
Great information guys, thank you very much.

One more point of clarification about the areas that are dispensing alcohol. If I go into a restaurant such as Chili's or TGIFriday's which has a bar, does that mean that I am legal to carry in the restaurant portion, just don't cut through the bar area?

Thanks again,

Deron

Yes. Gutmacher says in his book you are good in the restaraunt part, but you can't even pass through the BAR area to go to the bathroom, so you better be able to hold it:animlol:

geekboy
09-08-2007, 23:11
Originally posted by Gmountain
They can ask you to leave for any reason, btw, and if you don't go, then you are trespassing. It could be for the way you dress or the color of your hair. Private property is private property. One young man was "asked to leave" because he was wearing a t-shirt that had two geckos mating... or at least appeared that they were mating. :)

As Gmountain wrote, you can be asked to leave for ANY REASON that Disney chooses! Do not wear any t-shirts that are profane or otherwise distasteful... you will surely be asked to leave or change your shirt.

AggieMax
09-10-2007, 17:15
Thanks for the information - 4 days till Disney :)

Sgt. Schultz
09-11-2007, 14:58
I’m also planning a vacation to Florida this Christmas and I have a few questions about concealed carry …

Originally posted by rvrctyrngr
As for the theme parks....they are ALL 'posted'. Carry is perfectly legal in all of them. When you say ALL does this include non Disney properties like “Anheuser” Busch Gardens and Sea World?


What’s the law pertaining to conceal carry at the Kennedy Space center?

Originally posted by beer goggles
Yes, as long as you are not in the area that is mainly devoted to serving alcohol you are fine. What about restaurants that don’t have a bar area, say like pizza hut that serves only beer? Can others at my table drink alcohol?

Gmountain
09-11-2007, 15:05
Originally posted by Sgt. Schultz
I’m also planning a vacation to Florida this Christmas and I have a few questions about concealed carry …

When you say ALL does this include non Disney properties like “Anheuser” Busch Gardens and Sea World?
Any theme park is legal. The ONLY place off limits are listed in the Florida statutes. Businesses are not off limits, and that's all a theme park is.


What’s the law pertaining to conceal carry at the Kennedy Space center?
That is a Federal installation and off limits.

What about restaurants that don’t have a bar area, say like pizza hut that serves only beer? Can others at my table drink alcohol?

Perfectly fine. You can drink as well, if you want to. Even if there is a bar, like Outback, you can drink at your table.

Sgt. Schultz
09-11-2007, 16:48
Originally posted by Gmountain
That is a Federal installation and off limits.
Okay Kennedy is Federal and off limits … can the pistol be locked in the trunk or is that a day to leave it locked in the room safe?

Originally posted by Gmountain
Perfectly fine. You can drink as well, if you want to. Even if there is a bar, like Outback, you can drink at your table. Are you serious? That’s allowed in Florida? Personally I don’t think that alcohol and firearms are a good idea.



Thanks for help!

Gmountain
09-11-2007, 17:22
Originally posted by Sgt. Schultz
Okay Kennedy is Federal and off limits … can the pistol be locked in the trunk or is that a day to leave it locked in the room safe?

I'd go room safe that day.

Are you serious? That’s allowed in Florida? Personally I don’t think that alcohol and firearms are a good idea.

Whether to mix guns and alcohol is a personal decision. We've debated it many times. Some say no alcohol at ll, and others say a beer or glass of wine with dinner is no problem.

I agree with both sides. No one advocates getting drunk. I'm not sure having a beer makes a person a raving lunatic, and the law doesn't prohibit it at all.

There is no prohibition against carrying a gun if you are knee walking drunk, however being drunk and using it is a different story.

There is a difference, of course, between having a drink and being drunk.

So if you want to have a beer, go ahead.

Do whatever makes you comfortable.

geekboy
09-11-2007, 18:52
As always, Gmountain has done an excellent job at giving you a very succinct answer. He is, of course, correct as well!

I just want to echo what Gmountain wrote about leaving the weapon at the hotel when travelling to Kennedy. It's a government installation and you never know if they're doing vehicle checks. Don't want to get pinched for that!

Sgt. Schultz
09-11-2007, 20:20
Originally posted by geekboy
Its a government installation and you never know if they're doing vehicle checks. Don't want to get pinched for that! Yes I will definitely leave my pistol locked in the room safe. If I’d have thought about it I would have realized that it was a government installation. I’m familiar with military restrictions as I visit Fort Jackson at least once a month ... I hate that I have leave my pistol at home.

Thanks for the information!!!

rvrctyrngr
09-12-2007, 09:29
Sgt. Schultz,
Do you have a FL CWFL?

Just asking, since FL and SC STILL don't have reciprocity.

Enjoy your trip! Kennedy is definitely worth the experience.

Sgt. Schultz
09-12-2007, 09:42
Originally posted by rvrctyrngr
Sgt. Schultz,
Do you have a FL CWFL?

Just asking, since FL and SC STILL don't have reciprocity.

Enjoy your trip! Kennedy is definitely worth the experience. Yes I do have a Florida permit.

rvrctyrngr
09-12-2007, 10:41
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Cody Jarrett
09-12-2007, 11:09
A store is not a public place. It is a privately own entity who has the sole right to establish the terms and conditions of entering. These conditions fall under the rights of property owners and are not governed by state penal or federal law. Your 2nd amendment rights carry no weight in my home or place of business. The list of prohibited places is not intended as "THE DEFINITIVE LIST". It merely provides a list of places covered specifically under the law. As a property owner, if I ask you to leave and you don't I simply sign a trespass complaint.

I read all these threads about establishments prohibiting the carrying of a gun in states like TX and FL. I live in NY where everyone thinks people are anti-gun. It's easy to get a CCW (outside of NYC) and I have never, in all my years with guns, seen a sign prohibiting a gun in a store, eatery, etc. Nobody cares if you have a gun or not. In my coiunty, about 12% of residents have a CCW.

beer goggles
09-12-2007, 11:20
As a FL resident I have never seen a sign prohibiting firearms at any place other than the big amusement parks. And like it has been pointed out in FL it is not a crime to carry in these places it is only a property rights issue (private property owners can keep you out for any reason they want) and if you get caught with a weapon all they can do is ask you to leave and tell you not to come back.

Now if you refuse to leave it is no different than if you were in my front yard and would not leave after being asked. A private property owner can prohibit your use of their land for any reason they want. And if they tell you to go you need to go.

The point is unless it is one of the places named in the FL statutes or a federal building a sign means nothing as far as the law is concerned.

If I was a business owner I would be comforted by knowing that regular law abiding citizens were armed on my premises. But then again I would be packing too.

rvrctyrngr
09-12-2007, 11:30
I wonder what would happen if I opened a store/shop/restaurant...etc...and REQUIRED all patrons to carry?

No Shirt
No Shoes
No Gun
No Service:)

Cody Jarrett
09-12-2007, 11:34
Originally posted by rvrctyrngr
I wonder what would happen if I opened a store/shop/restaurant...etc...and REQUIRED all patrons to carry?

No Shirt
No Shoes
No Gun
No Service:)
That's funny as hell!

Gmountain
09-12-2007, 18:04
Originally posted by Cody Jarrett
A store is not a public place. It is a privately own entity who has the sole right to establish the terms and conditions of entering. These conditions fall under the rights of property owners and are not governed by state penal or federal law. Your 2nd amendment rights carry no weight in my home or place of business. The list of prohibited places is not intended as "THE DEFINITIVE LIST".

Sure it is, in Florida. The list is the list of places where it against the law to carry a concealed firearm. Your home is not on that list. Therefore, I am not breaking the law carrying in your home.

If you don't want me there, you can ask me to leave, but I have not committed any crime by carrying there.

Gmountain
09-12-2007, 18:06
Originally posted by Cody Jarrett
It's easy to get a CCW (outside of NYC) and I have never, in all my years with guns, seen a sign prohibiting a gun in a store, eatery, etc. Nobody cares if you have a gun or not. In my coiunty, about 12% of residents have a CCW.

How long does it take? Do you need someone's permission? Do you need approval to buy a gun, or do you have to register it somewhere?

Cody Jarrett
09-12-2007, 18:11
Originally posted by Gmountain
How long does it take? Do you need someone's permission? Do you need approval to buy a gun, or do you have to register it somewhere?
The time depends on the county and backlog. background check, four references and a three-hour safety class. Guns are registered on your permit.

Cody Jarrett
09-12-2007, 18:15
Originally posted by Gmountain
Sure it is, in Florida. The list is the list of places where it against the law to carry a concealed firearm. Your home is not on that list. Therefore, I am not breaking the law carrying in your home.

If you don't want me there, you can ask me to leave, but I have not committed any crime by carrying there.
Correct. As I said, property rights of the owner trump second amendment rights.

Cody Jarrett
09-12-2007, 18:24
Originally posted by Gmountain
Sure it is, in Florida. The list is the list of places where it against the law to carry a concealed firearm. Your home is not on that list. Therefore, I am not breaking the law carrying in your home.

If you don't want me there, you can ask me to leave, but I have not committed any crime by carrying there.

Correct. As I said, property rights of the owner trump second amendment rights.

geekboy
09-12-2007, 18:39
deja vu!

beer goggles
09-12-2007, 18:40
Originally posted by Cody Jarrett
Correct. As I said, property rights of the owner trump second amendment rights.

But I think the point here is, it is not criminal nor is it prohibited under any laws within the state of Florida. A property owner can't have you arrested for CCW unless you are asked to leave and refuse to do so. Again this is the same as if you were asked to leave because the guy didn't like the color t-shirt you are wearing. And there doesn't need to be a sign prohibiting it.

I do believe in some places that the signs <b>do</b> carry weight under the law and it is a crime to be packing anywhere it is posted no firearms. I think this is what the original poster was concerned with.

Theblackwulf
09-13-2007, 11:59
Florida Possession regulations (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/possession.html)
Statute 790.06 (12) (http://www.uncledave.org/firearms/fs79006-12.html)
Roughly, Federal/State/Local government are no-no's. Education in any form "public, private, vocational/technical" Any federal lands
Any portion of a business licensed to dispence alcohol for consumption on premises "meaning if you walk into a chili's or outback, "or any place with a bar for that matter" you can sit at the table and eat/drink, however you can't set foot in the actual bar section while carrying. Granted there nobody will be frisking you as you enter the bar, however if someone walks up to you and starts a fight, and you pull the gun to defend yourself, your going to be the one hauled off to the pokey.

As for Disney, they are a private entity, meaning that there is no law saying you can't carry in the park. However it is their property, and they have the right to deny access to the park, contact the LEO's and charge you with tresspassing. In corperate America, the rights granted to you by the constitution/bill of rights end at the door.

Recently on consumerist, someone posted that they feel their fifth ammendment right was violated by a large chain electronics store. They were asked to show their reciept and the contents of their bag upon exiting. When they refused, the store security and manager prevented them from leaving. The consumer did not understand that while he was technically deprived of life, and liberty, the store has full rights to refuse business, and verify that someone is not removing items from the premisis illegally. When the consumer contacted the LEO's they came and took a report however no charges were filed due to the fact that his purchase basicly bound him to the store's terms of purchase.

Law is tricky, and corporations know every bit of them inside and out. Knowledge is power, if you gain an understanding of how everything works, the better off you will be...

Cody Jarrett
09-13-2007, 15:22
Originally posted by Theblackwulf
Florida Possession regulations (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/possession.html)
Statute 790.06 (12) (http://www.uncledave.org/firearms/fs79006-12.html)
Roughly, Federal/State/Local government are no-no's. Education in any form "public, private, vocational/technical" Any federal lands
Any portion of a business licensed to dispence alcohol for consumption on premises "meaning if you walk into a chili's or outback, "or any place with a bar for that matter" you can sit at the table and eat/drink, however you can't set foot in the actual bar section while carrying. Granted there nobody will be frisking you as you enter the bar, however if someone walks up to you and starts a fight, and you pull the gun to defend yourself, your going to be the one hauled off to the pokey.

As for Disney, they are a private entity, meaning that there is no law saying you can't carry in the park. However it is their property, and they have the right to deny access to the park, contact the LEO's and charge you with tresspassing. In corperate America, the rights granted to you by the constitution/bill of rights end at the door.

Recently on consumerist, someone posted that they feel their fifth ammendment right was violated by a large chain electronics store. They were asked to show their reciept and the contents of their bag upon exiting. When they refused, the store security and manager prevented them from leaving. The consumer did not understand that while he was technically deprived of life, and liberty, the store has full rights to refuse business, and verify that someone is not removing items from the premisis illegally. When the consumer contacted the LEO's they came and took a report however no charges were filed due to the fact that his purchase basicly bound him to the store's terms of purchase.

Law is tricky, and corporations know every bit of them inside and out. Knowledge is power, if you gain an understanding of how everything works, the better off you will be...
Well said!

yashua-p
09-17-2007, 08:07
Sacred Heart Hospital in Pensacola has the circled pistol with a slash through it on each entry door. I don't know if this is true at all hospitals in the state.



yashua

rvrctyrngr
09-17-2007, 08:51
Hospitals are a different matter all together!

Excerpt from J. Gutmacher's Website:
Carrying in a Hospital (http://www.falsearrestlaw.com/faq008.shtml)

This is a revised update by Mr. Gutmacher of a recent article from his monthly magazine column, The Legal Corner

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher
Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:


(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
Any firearms or deadly weapon”.
I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.