new to the world of shotguns

[modestglock26]

i recently got a benelli nova 12g and i got it for home defense. my wife feels if it came down to it she would grab the shotgun to defend herself since it would seem pretty easy to hit whatever was in front of her. my question is...

what would be the best rounds for home defense? i have some 00 buck and a lot of 7.5 buck. i was looking at some slug shells online but i wasnt sure if i had to have a rifled barrel for them or not. if i dont need to have any modifications done to my gun, what would be a good slug choice for ammo?

thanks,
sorry for noobness

[MrMurphy]

1. Shotguns miss as easily as anything else. At 10 yards the group is still smaller than the palm of your hand. You must AIM.

2. I had a Nova myself. Hornady TAP 00 Buck low recoil has the tightest pattern and lowest recoil I've found. Not cheap (this is not plinking ammo) but will definitely do the job. Federal Tactical, Winchester Low Recoil and others, in 00 Buck, 000 Buck or No.4 Buck would do the job.

7.5 is birdshot. Leave it for the birds, it does not effectively work on humans except at very close range (and even then, not always).

Slugs are a hunk of lead. They overpenetrate like crazy. Think of them as a modern musket ball. Heavy, big, and they don't stop. I would only use slugs on a far-away (50-100 yard) target or for a precise shot, and if I knew my backstop well. Or, if i had to penetrate a car body or something. I would NOT use them for home defense.

Your gun, assuming it has a cylinder or improved cylinder bore will shoot Foster type slugs just fine. Remington Sluggers and similar slugs are of this type. Sabot slugs require a rifled barrel.

I would suggest going to amazon.com and buying anything written by Louis Awerbuck about combat shotguns. He's "the man" when it comes to combat shotgunning, though others are also good. Gabe Suarez's book is good on the basics, though some of the info is a bit dated, it's inexpensive.

[modestglock26]

thanks for the help. i didnt realize that the #7.5 would be just about useless. i have #00 like i stated before, and i will look into getting some more. thanks again.

[MrMurphy]

It's not "useless". Birdshot HAS killed people before. However with half a million tiny little pellets, it lacks in penetration against people. if the guy is wearing a leather jacket, denim, etc some of the load may be stopped. Even taking the full hit, it might not put him down.

At very close range (under 7 yards or so) when it's still effectively a solid mass, it will sometimes do the trick, but not reliably enough to count on. And birdshot sails through drywall just like buckshot (tested many times).

The only times I've seen birdshot reliably, every time do the trick was suicides. Birdshot at contact distance to the mouth generally leaves nothing above the barrel left. Messy. (I am a former news photog, I've seen quite a few shootings/aftermaths and other stuff)

You want a tight group of large pellets, 00 and 000 being the norm. Those are .33 or so caliber pellets, I believe 000 is .36. No.4 Buckshot is .25 caliber or close, you get more pellets, but not quite as big. El Paso PD was a big user of #4 for a long time, till they had a few where solid hits did not do it. Chuck Taylor (Vietnam vet, cop and 30-year shooting instructor) wrote that up, they switched to 00 Buck.

[modestglock26]

yeah im gonna let her shoot the lighht loads to get used to the gun, and keep #00 in it for the house. ive been researching online while at work, and have found that many people think the #4 and #00 are great loads. i will stick with those for now. my other question is...my nova will accept 2 3/4" shells and up...would one be better than the other?

[MrMurphy]

For defensive use, standard (2 3/4") are fine. Magnums are for shooting at geese, bears, car bombers, aircraft... you get the idea.

Magnum rounds against a person will not significantly better your performance, have much more blast (noisier, more shock wave) and take you longer to get back on the target. This is the reason low recoil shotgun rounds were developed, easier to shoot more rounds in training etc, and they found that slightly less powder, with plated pellets, resulted in very, very tight groups and maybe a loss of 100 fps in energy (nothing noticeable), while remaining easier to shoot.

To give you a clue, i fired the Hornady TAP from my Nova literally right out of the box. At 10 yards (where many shotguns have a open-hand sized group) it was a single large hole. At 20, a usual 10 yard pattern, and so on. And it kicked fairly light for a shotgun.

[ElevatedThreat]

I used to buy into the idea of birdshot and #4 buck for defenese -- until I tried my own pattern and penetration tests.

I found that birdshot opens up so fast from an improved cylinder choke that the idea of it hitting in a solid mass has merit only at near-contact ranges.

And #4 buckshot penetrates VERY poorly -- even with plated hardened shot.

So I now stick to #1 buckshot or larger. Federal Flite-Control 00 buckshot loads give VERY tight patterns.

Incidentally, coroners have found that in actual shooting cases plain vanilla lead Foster slugs do not normally overpenetrate humans even at close range, so slugs are a viable defense option.

-ET

[MrMurphy]

One case I saw they did, but he was shot at almost contact distance.

[CaliTheKid]

I use TAP in my Reminton 870P and like the performance a lot.

I just purchased a Benelli M4 and am going to see how it cycles TAP. I am leary about lower recoil loads in semi-autos. Anyone have any experience with it in semi-autos?

[MrMurphy]

They make a semi-auto load version with a bit more thump to cycle it. I've seen them sold side-by-side or i'd have never known. :) The box is marked for it.

[GLOCK35TX]

Mr Murphy is 100% correct on his advice...

Beware shotguns are very powerful and over penetration of walls is a constant danger - even with birddhot..which can go through several layers of drywall

Here is a vid to show why it is never a good idea to use slugs in a home defense scenario.


**Turn your speakers down or off as the music is pretty loud**
SLUG LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU4ocXjh2Sc)

[epsylum]

Originally posted by CaliTheKid
I use TAP in my Reminton 870P and like the performance a lot.

I just purchased a Benelli M4 and am going to see how it cycles TAP. I am leary about lower recoil loads in semi-autos. Anyone have any experience with it in semi-autos?

I would stay away from reduced power loads for semi-autos. The good thing is that semis help cut the felt reocil down so reduced recoil loads aren't really needed. BTW I have a Saiga 12 and had Remington 1100 competiton master. Both need(ed) full power to be 100% reliable. I bought half a case of Federal full power 2 3/4" 00 buck at a gun show and still have some left. My Saiga loves it.

Also a good load for self defnse is #1 buck. The gel tests I have seen have shown it to do some quite nasty stuff to the testing medium when it initially impacts and it still penetrated over a foot.

[machinisttx]

Originally posted by GLOCK35TX
Mr Murphy is 100% correct on his advice...

Beware shotguns are very powerful and over penetration of walls is a constant danger - even with birddhot..which can go through several layers of drywall

Here is a vid to show why it is never a good idea to use slugs in a home defense scenario.


**Turn your speakers down or off as the music is pretty loud**
SLUG LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU4ocXjh2Sc)

It should be noted that that video depicts slugs which are apparently hard cast, and are handloaded. Factory slugs contain very little antimony, and aren't very hard. They can also be had in versions designed for expansion(which the slug in the video was not). Just like everything else, there is a proper load for every use. Hard cast, non expanding slugs designed solely for penetration are not the choice for HD use. That said, I'd still use 00 or 000(in my shotgun right now) buck instead of slugs.

[GLOCK35TX]

I agree .. right now I have a nice sample of Polyshok rounds on the way to test for my dept.