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New_comer
07-21-2007, 09:08
Of the many airgun models paraded during this last gunshow, my attention got stuck on several Turkish-made break-barrel 0.177 cal airguns from Hahn, with polymer stocks in plain black, camo and faux wood. I am more inclined to own this type instead of CO2 or compressed air since self priming guns are ready to use anytime.

Any comments from Hatsan airgun owners here on its performance and durability would be greatly appreciated... ;) Tamang tama ito as a Christmas gift to my son. :hearts:

Here's the big boy of their lineup at 1250fps:
http://www.hatsan.com.tr/images/airguns/big_picture/mod_125_big.jpg

I'm thinking of getting the model 70 instead
http://www.hatsan.com.tr/images/airguns/big_picture/mod_70_big.jpg
Model Caliber Max. Muzzle Vel. (*) Stock Length Barrel
Length Weight Fiber Optic Sights Diameters (optional)
Rear Sight Front Sight
Mod70 4.5 mm (.177 cal) 300 m/s (1000 fps) Advanced
Polymer 1140 mm (45") 450 mm (17.7") 3100 grams
(6.8 lbs) 0.9 mm (.035") green 1.5 mm (.060") red

3kings
07-21-2007, 18:34
got a hatsan 85x at the gunshow (plus a caiman at filarms). the one with the scope at boasts of 1000fps.

easy to zero. had zeroed it at 15-20yards with close to half an inch in grouping. i suggest you get the one with the scope.

the only tradeoff is breaking the barrel especially if its new. after shooting around 50 shots my arms got sore ;) but what the heck, i enjoyed every minute of it.

went to armscor yesterday and played with the airgun (also the pistol, shotgun, rifle)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/a3kings/d80/_DSC2255.jpg

hope this helps.

New_comer
07-21-2007, 19:05
Thanks! :thumbsup:

I did not see that model there you're shooting. Only the 33 and 70 were there. Perhaps Hahn will restock with some 85's at the next gunshow. ;)

I was also looking at PBD's Slavia line and Crossman break-barrel lineup, but nameplate speed failed to impress at 600fps. The Hatsans got me excited. Had I known they're rated >1000fps, I would have brought home one, or two already - the second being the pistol version. ;)

mikey177
07-22-2007, 01:19
How much do those Hatsan air rifles cost? Are they also available at Hahn?

I didn't notice them when I went to the gun show. If they're available at Hahn, maybe I'll check them out the next time I go to SM Baguio.

charlie-xray
07-22-2007, 01:46
Being Hatsan as the available there, how much would that cost?

I'd like to compare it to the GAMO and WEBLEY 1,000fps available here, available in polymer, and stained wood stocks.

New_comer
07-22-2007, 01:55
Between 5-10 th depending on model.

The pistol is almost 4th

Medyo may kamahalan din.

antediluvianist
07-22-2007, 02:06
Does anybody know what's the fps of the Hatsan pistol? (Breakbarrel also, right? ).

The price of P4K is reasonable if it's matibay and if the fps is good enough to kill/seriously wound rats/snakes/pigeons/miscellaneous little pests that leave droppings .

Googled it - ah, it's only 380 fps. Well, it's just a pistol. Hmmm...not so exciting.

http://hatsan.com.tr/mod_20.asp


And then the Hatsan Model 125 (see website below) boasts 1,250 fps. Hmmm...almost twoce the velocity of a .38 special out of a snubbie. There are special aerodynamic .177 pellets - not the usual type, the ones really shaped like bullets, with bodies (except the nose) made out of teflon for max speed thru the barrel - anyway, those aerodynamic teflon .177 pellets do not slow down as much as the standard pellets after they leave the barrel, and they can penetrate skin.

http://hatsan.com.tr/mod_125.asp

3kings
07-22-2007, 02:40
got mine at 9.3k (gun show price) it includes the scope and suppressor. no gunbag and pellets. have to get them separately

here is the link http://hatsan.com.tr/mod_85x.asp
fyi

New_comer
07-22-2007, 02:45
There are two models with break levers under the barrels, maybe to preserve zero aim. Mod 100 and 105 IIRC, but command the premium prices at almost 10K

antediluvianist
07-22-2007, 03:01
New-comer, those under-the-barrel-lever models are for sale locally at Hahn?

charlie-xray
07-22-2007, 03:58
those are cheap, way cheap compared to this Made in Spain GAMO and WEBLEY.

antediluvianist
07-22-2007, 04:23
And ridiculously cheaper than Feinwerkbaus. My FW 127 cost P17K in 1982.

I'll probably get the 380 fps pistol for 4K and setup a big close-range target inside my office, behind the door. Stress reliever. Will also at least discourage neighborhood cats and rodents and pigeons from crapping on my lawn, even if the pellet bounces off them or just lands nearby.

New_comer
07-22-2007, 04:23
Originally posted by antediluvianist
New-comer, those under-the-barrel-lever models are for sale locally at Hahn?

Yup. Mahal lang nga. Up to 10K

New_comer
07-22-2007, 04:35
Forgive me for not squealing for joy on this find, kasi yung katok plastic nung stock, nakaka-turn-off eh. Tama si ante, pang-stress relief lang.

I'd be more enthused had PBD brought back those Weirauch break-barrel airguns they had on sale about 4-5 years ago. Wala pang 10k nuon yung mod 35 ata, but what most impressed me then were that the products oozed with German engineering and quality. Natural wood talaga yung stock. Yun ang tunay na sale. :thumbsup:

New_comer
07-22-2007, 04:42
Originally posted by antediluvianist
...

I'll probably get the 380 fps pistol for 4K and setup a big close-range target inside my office, behind the door...

Baka mahimatay secretary mo sa bawat kalampag ng pellets against your door. ;)

My son told me that his classmate has one, and it has a serious punch into it. That's why I'm also interested in the pistol version. :supergrin:

maskytrading
07-22-2007, 22:39
I have a Hatsan .22 cal air rifle from PBDionisio. I bought an Amandini holster for around 6K last year from same store but unfortunately did not fit my pistol (or vice versa); I did not want any modifications done on either so I brought it back for a refund...while waiting I saw this air rifle with about the same price and decided that I will just take it instead...Quite good for plinking, very accurate up to 10 meters with small fixed scope...for varmint/bird hunting; power is sufficient up to around 30 meters max imo.

antediluvianist
07-23-2007, 01:25
Called Hahn Park Square. The 380 fps pistol costs P3,692. Oh hell, cheap enough for a stress-reliever/varmint chaser. Mas mahal pa a bottle of imported tranquilizers.

bisoy
07-23-2007, 18:06
please excuse my ignorance sir... what is a break barrel airgun? how is it different from the regular co2 or compressed air airguns? thanks.

vega
07-23-2007, 18:19
http://sp1.mm-a6.yimg.com/image/3532519093

From Crossman website.
Break barrel air rifles are fast, convenient, and self contained. They get their name from the single cocking stroke that is needed to get them ready to shoot. You pull the muzzle down and back ("breaking" the barrel) until a spring and piston latch into place. Load a pellet into the breech, return the barrel to its original position, and you're done. It's simple, quick and elegant

bisoy
07-23-2007, 18:42
wow. that's something new (at least for me). so the pellets are propelled by just the spring action? is the trajectory comparable to the air propelled air guns? what are its advantages and disadvantages of break barrel airguns?

sorry for the numerous questions. if im already thread jacking, pls let me know and i shall crate a different thread. sorry to the thread starter and thanks in advance for the responses.

antediluvianist
07-23-2007, 18:49
A spring-piston airgun can produce pellet velocities far in excess of CO2 guns, and they are quieter. Check the Hatsan website - just google hatsan+air - and you will see that one of their break-barrels fires pellets at 1,250 fps.

Quality break-barrel airguns like the German Feinwerkbaus and Weirauchs are passed down from father to son.

The spring piston compresses the air behind the pellet - there is a gasket seal so the air doesn't escape sideways - and that's a lot of power - that's why you use the barrel - as leverage - to draw back the piston in the first place.

I stopped using CO2 when I got into breakbarrels.

bisoy
07-23-2007, 18:58
what are the parts that normally break? i ask coz there might be specialty parts that i cant find in the province. with regular co2 airguns, o-rings are cheap, abundant and easy to replace. so far, these are the only things that i have replaced. the air rifle that i am using has been with our family for more than 3 decades.

antediluvianist
07-23-2007, 19:03
Break-barrels are not very delicate, but if a part breaks, it is necessary to order it from abroad. Not difficult or expensive really. These days things get mailed internationally very easily. I don't think local sellers keep parts in stock.

If that's a major concern, then having a local CO2 gun might be the better alternative.

vega
07-23-2007, 19:07
.

bisoy
07-23-2007, 19:18
noted. thanks for the heads up.

antediluvianist
07-26-2007, 05:28
Am finally over my cold...will buy the 380 fps break-barrel Hatsan pistol tomorrow or this weekend at Nashe Park Square. Neighborhood cats/leavers of droppings/complaining students beware.

mikey177
08-20-2007, 04:11
Any updates on the performance of these Hatsan airguns?

For hunting big rats, would you guys recommend the .177 which has a higher velocity, or the .22 that has a slightly larger pellet size?

The velocity for the Hatsan Model 85x air rifle in .177 is 1000 fps while that of the .22 is 750 fps.

CatsMeow
08-23-2007, 04:04
I handled a Hatsan air rifle at Hahn Ali Mall, the one with the under-barrel cocking handle. It was, like, wow, I want one. But the plastic stock...

I've long given up shooting game, but for plinking and marksmanship training, and shooting rats (not eating them so they're not game!:supergrin: ) I would also be interested in the caliber. 22 cal. is more available in the provinces.

mikey177
08-31-2007, 21:31
I got the Hatsan Model 105 fixed barrel-under lever air rifle last week. http://www.hatsan.com.tr/mod_105.asp

At 7.5 pounds, this air rifle is heavy. When I first tried cocking the under lever mechanism, I thought that the gun was busted because even after cocking it, the gun wouldn't fire. It turns out that the spring was still stiff, and I needed to apply near-Herculean strength to cock the rifle.

Turns out there is an audible click if the gun is cocked fully, but it really provides a good upper body workout --I think they designed the rifle for large-framed European males. I myself, being only a 140-pound Pinoy, had to rest the butt of the rifle on the floor while pushing down on the cocking lever with my full weight in order to cock it. However, after a few days the cocking lever becomes easier to operate.

.177 pellets fly out of this gun at 800 fps, and without a silencer, this gun makes a loud noise every time it is used --it's like shooting an unsuppressed .22LR :shocked:

The fixed barrel aids in accuracy though, and I was able to get 1-inch groups at around 10 meters.

This model doesn't come with a scope, and the rear sights, while adjustable, are IMO not up to par for precision shooting. They get knocked out of alignment easily, so windage adjustment could be problematic if one accidentally nudges the sights.

Lastly, it's the first time I've experienced perceptible recoil using an air rifle. I've shot CO2-powered Armscors before, as well as spring-piston FWBs, and I've never noticed recoil from them. But the beast really is powerful --even the .177 is capable of shooting through plywood at 50 feet.

I'm just waiting to see if the gun will mellow out after a couple of hundred rounds. On hindsight, I would've been happier ordering a Filarms Caiman --so I did just that, and I should get it after around 2 weeks.

New_comer
08-31-2007, 22:03
This what you got?

http://www.hatsan.com.tr/images/airguns/big_picture/mod_105_big.jpg

Congratz on your new toy / bullworker. :thumbsup:

At Hahn-Mall of Asia, the saleslady allowed me to cock the air pistol. I nearly dislocated the joints of my hand trying to hear that full 'click'. There must be a way to ease the stiffness of the lever. You'd need a vise just to get a good hold on the short barrel to cock it :sad:

mikey177
08-31-2007, 23:11
Yup, that's the beast, except they didn't have any more units with the black stock so I had to settle on one in camo.

Here's a photo of the front and back of the plywood that I shot at at 50 feet:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/mikey177/guns/hatsan_m105_penetration.jpg

Now, if only I could do something about that pesky rear sight.

New_comer
09-01-2007, 00:04
That's quite nasty! 800 fps pa lang yan...

The cheaper Mod70/85 can even crank it higher at a thousand fps (rated). Imagine what that would do... :thumbsup:

You may need to install a scope to deal with the erratic sights.

mikey177
09-01-2007, 00:41
Yeah, I was thinking of getting the model that cranks out 1000 fps, but I went for the under-lever model to minimize the effect on accuracy of the break-barrel design, and also because I figured I could get tighter groups with just 800 fps.

mikey177
09-01-2007, 06:47
If I ever win the lottery, I'd get me one of these babies:

http://www.pilkguns.com/steyrlg110hpfly.jpg

However,at $1,800 in the US, it's way beyond my reach.

New_comer
09-01-2007, 20:41
Parang pang Star Wars ah... :thumbsup:

Di ba't yung hi-end ng Filarms, ganyan na din kamahal?

zorkd
09-02-2007, 02:45
did you buy the hatsan pistol?

is it a good buy? i am thinking of getting one also, at 380 fps, it is not very powerful, but do you think it can take care of rodents? COM hit with a pointed .177 pellet.

mikey177
09-02-2007, 03:55
Originally posted by New_comer
...Di ba't yung hi-end ng Filarms, ganyan na din kamahal?

Not really. $1,800 in Philippine pesos is around P82,000. If we include taxes, the cost could go past P90,000.

On the other hand, from bikethief's Filarms Caiman Rifle thread (http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=589988), the following figures are cited:

Standard Rifle: Php.16,500
Pump: Php.9,000
Scope: 7k upwards
Optional Black pepper laminate stock: 7k

A grand total of P39,500, already inclusive of the hand pump. I don't think the price of the Steyr includes the pump, so I would say the Filarms is still a good buy. I'll let you know in about two weeks when mine arrives :thumbsup:

New_comer
09-02-2007, 10:19
I believe you'd need to add to that the replacement s/s barrel they were also selling, orig Walther iirc, at 16Th or so for the 20-incher. Having a brass lined barrel won't be fitting for such a high quality gun to begin with.

That now brings it to around 55K, and it won't look half as mean as the Steyr. :supergrin:

mikey177
09-02-2007, 19:55
May I ask what the disadvantages of a brass-lined barrel over a stainless steel barrel are? Are there any advantages to using brass over s/s?

New_comer
09-02-2007, 21:30
Originally posted by mikey177
May I ask what the disadvantages of a brass-lined barrel over a stainless steel barrel are? Are there any advantages to using brass over s/s?

Here's what I got from Quackenbush Air Guns technical report:

"Before you make a barrel, you must decide what to make it out of. So let's go examine some of the popular materials used for barrels.

Brass:

Brass has good qualities for an airgun barrel. It is easy to machine and easy to rifle, because brass chips break away cleanly leaving a good surface. Brass offers a rust & corrosion resistance. On the down side, brass is heavier than steel and not as strong as steel, so the same barrel in brass would have to be thicker walled to make up for its lack of strength, but this would make a brass barrel much heavier than a steel barrel. Benjamin/Sheridan get around this using a thin barrel and soldering it to the lower tube to give it the strength it needs. Most air cane brass barrels are supported inside a steel casing. Anyone who has an older Benjamin or Sheridan knows that when the finish wears off, how would one refurbish it? Steel can be blued and when worn it can be repolished and blued again. For modern airguns, brass requires too much to design around to make it work.

Stainless steels:

Stainless steel is chosen for its corrosion and rust resistance. The grade of stainless steel most commonly used for firearms barrels is AISI #416, which is a free machining variation of #410. The main constituent in this stainless steel is chromium. Chromium improves wear resistance, and corrosion and scaling at elevated temperatures. The reason this is important for firearms, especially target rifles, is the wear that degrades accuracy is the hot, burning powder gasses eroding the throat area. The throat is the spot in the barrel where the bullet enters the rifling. Without a good start to the bullet in the bore, the gun won't be accurate. If you're going to have a barrel and expect it to last for 20,000 rounds (target rifle), you'll have to select a material that will last that long. The attributes that make stainless steel so desirable for a firearm is unnecessary in an air gun because there are no hot, burning powder gasses. The other feature that most people look to stainless steel for is rust resistance. They use the term "resistance", not "proof", because the grade of stainless steel used for rifle barrels can rust. Stainless steel barrels are not maintenance free. Just because you have a stainless steel barrel doesn't mean that you don't have to take care of it. So it would be a mistake to put a stainless steel barrel on an air gun in the belief that you can now neglect it. At the moment, I don't see where the extra expense and difficulty of machining and rifling a stainless steel barrel would be an advantage. Without the rest of the rifle's components being made of stainless steel, and having a synthetic, weather proof stock, the stainless steel barrel only is no advantage."

There are other materials they discussed in here:
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/Airgun_barrels.htm ,
which I leave our readers to peruse.

Personally, I don't see any difference between the two, shooting-wise. It's just that, why did Filarms still have to offer an 'upgrade' barrel, a Walther at that, if they had nothing marketable to distinguish it from the original installed. Was the original inferior in any way? No one at the booth then can answer me that too.

New_comer
09-02-2007, 21:35
Who says airguns cant kill big game?

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/steph_bison.jpg

2000 lb. bison taken with a Quackenbush .457 cal. air rifle


:shocked:

mikey177
09-03-2007, 02:25
Good info you posted there, New_comer. Thanks.

Maybe the option for a Walther barrel upgrade is to give shooters a choice of having a "proven" name behind their rifle. Of course, if the original Japan-made brass barrels prove themselves equal to the Walthers in competitions and in the field, then maybe this will change (but I hope it won't mean a price increase on the brass barrels).

CatsMeow
09-03-2007, 02:33
Originally posted by New_comer
Who says airguns cant kill big game?

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/steph_bison.jpg

2000 lb. bison taken with a Quackenbush .457 cal. air rifle


:shocked:

I'm not surprised. One of the assassination plots against Oliver Cromwell in England involved some sort of weapon propelled by "wynde".

Also, I saw an old Gun Digest article whereby the author, J.I. Galan I think, took a wild boar with an air shotgun made in the Philippines, loaded with sabot rounds.:thumbsup:

Wp.22
09-03-2007, 19:35
i also have a break barrel airgun medyo rusty na. the brand escapes my mind right now. kainins lang parang di derecho yung barrel.


what brand of pellets ang ok gamitin?

CatsMeow
09-03-2007, 20:19
I just remembered the brand of Philippine-made air shotgun: the ARS-Farco. Is Farco still around?

ARS (Air Rifle Specialists,I think) also imported to the US a very powerful Korean-made .22 caliber air rifle which was charged from a scuba tank or CO2, had a six-shot revolver-type cylinder and, unusually, was double/single action like a revolver. Would be nice to have one.:)

antediluvianist
09-08-2007, 01:05
Ante here.

I tried the Hatsan air pistol and it seemed like a lot of work for measely power output. Decided not to get it. I remember there was one air pistol - I forget the brand - that was cocked by sticking a hollow cocking tube around the barrel, to get more leverage.

mikey177
11-13-2007, 22:45
After spending a few weeks of confinement in my closet, I decided to bring the Hatsan Model 105 out and give it another try. Maybe I was being too hasty with my initial perception because owning an under-lever air rifle was a new experience for me.

The gun ban ended already but because I cannot as yet visit the range, I vented my wrath on a couple of tin cans. Even using flat-nosed .177 pellets, each shot went straight through the cans, regardless of whether they were upright or lying on their side:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/mikey177/guns/plinking_01.jpg

This time around, I found it easier to cock this under-lever airgun because I already knew the technique (bear down with your entire body weight while resting the butt of the rifle on the floor). The report was still loud, but not as scandalous as before --or maybe I am already used to it so it didn't bother me much. I also didn't notice the recoil anymore, and I realized that this gun is best used with its stock sights and not a scope.

That's why I moved the scope to my Caiman, as seen in the bottom photo. The camo pattern airgun on top is the Hatsan, while the airgun in the center is a CZ break barrel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/mikey177/guns/airguns_01.jpg

New_comer
11-14-2007, 04:22
That's a very handsome collection you have there! Very nice!

mikey177
11-14-2007, 05:13
Thanks, New_comer. Airguns are my first passion.

I still remember the first airgun I ever had when I was in high school --an Armscor CO2 air rifle with a retractable stock. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but that didn't stop me from enjoying airguns and the camaraderie I forged with my high school buds when we went hunting in Bataan during summers.

Yung kulang na lang sa collection ko, Feinwerkbau 603 Match (drool).

mikey177
11-15-2007, 06:43
...I remember there was one air pistol - I forget the brand - that was cocked by sticking a hollow cocking tube around the barrel, to get more leverage.

Sir Ante, would it by any chance by the Walther LP53? Here's a short write-up on said air pistol for reference --> http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/05/walther-lp53-james-bond-airgun.html