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Seven High
08-05-2007, 07:39
I noticed in the latest Glock catalogue that the Glock 19 has been issued/used by the USAF. Does anyone have any information as to which units have been using them?

meeko
08-05-2007, 09:47
Originally posted by Seven High
I noticed in the latest Glock catalogue that the Glock 19 has been issued/used to the USAF. Does anyone have any information as to which units have been using them?

The USAF does not issue the Glock 19. The only "authorized/issued" pistols are the Beretta M9 and the SIG P228. the SIG is for Office of Special Investigation OSI similar to ARMY CID. There might be a couple S&W model 15 revolvers locked deep inside a base gun vault somewhere but they only issue the M9 and SIG. I just retired after 21 years as a Security forces troop and also was a combat arms instructor. So I'd bet money it was a misprint or that author did not check the facts. I'm not saying some personal Glocks never made it over somewhere but if so the number could probably be counted on one hand.

eodcole
08-05-2007, 21:02
I'm calling BS on the last post. Now I do not know what unit it was but a fellow EOD co-worker was carrying a Glock(19?) on his last deployment to Iraq. He has left over mags from when he was issued his loadout. Also I'm sure some of the spec ops dudes have a little more freedom to pick what they carry as a unit instead of a M9. I know if we as EOD could choose (give me a G21!) we would but just to make CATM happy we'd come and qual on M9s just like the rest of the folk.

meeko
08-06-2007, 06:40
Originally posted by eodcole
I'm calling BS on the last post. Now I do not know what unit it was but a fellow EOD co-worker was carrying a Glock(19?) on his last deployment to Iraq. He has left over mags from when he was issued his loadout. Also I'm sure some of the spec ops dudes have a little more freedom to pick what they carry as a unit instead of a M9. I know if we as EOD could choose (give me a G21!) we would but just to make CATM happy we'd come and qual on M9s just like the rest of the folk.

Whatever happened to respectfully disagreeing there eodcole!! Unless the EOD guy obtained a Glock from say the Iraqi police (the Iraqi's tend to sell their handguns sometimes). I'm telling you the USAF DOES NOT ISSUE the Glock not even to the AF combat controllers/TAFCP or para rescue. Now if they are attached to an Army unit like TACP guys they could get who knows what. However the only two authorized/issue pistols are the M9 and the SIG. He was in a combat area and sometimes troops do pick items up. If I was running anything I wouldn't care what my troops carried/obtained as long as they could use it and the ammo was compatible.

Seven High
08-06-2007, 15:47
From page 13 of the latest Glock catalogue. Last sentence:" For instance, many of the elite pilots of the USAF trust the Glock 19 for their efficient defense in emergency situations." Does anyone have first hand knowledge which units are using Glocks?

meeko
08-06-2007, 18:15
Originally posted by Seven High
From page 13 of the latest Glock catalogue. Last sentence: For instance, many of the elite pilots of the USAF trust the Glock 19 for their efficient defense in emergency situations. Does anyone have first hand knowledge which units are using Glocks?

If any pilots in the USAF were issued Glocks the Combat Arms Training and Maint (CATM) folks (I just retired days ago and was assigned CATM duties)would be the ones that trained and qualified the pilots. CATM has the tech orders and specs of all weapons in the AF inventory no matter what base you are at or if that particular weapon is there. example not all AF bases have M2 50 cal's or MK 19 automatic grenade launcher but they do have the tech orders because you could be deployed where the M2 or MK 19 are etc. The AF does not do anything without tech orders and they do not have any tech orders for Glocks.

So I'm saying it's a misprint. Just like the newest issue of guns and Ammo I recieved in the mail today. has an article about the M&P 45 the only problem with the article is the picture in the article of Bart Skelton shooting a SIG.

eodcole
08-07-2007, 03:08
He didn't just pick it up. He was issued the weapon. I don't know who exactly issued it however. I'll take your word on it I guess that the USAF doesn't issue glocks. I personally wouldn't have believed it anyhow. Well more than half the force scare me with a weapon in their hand. I think the reason everyong wears body armor at CATM is not for training, but for safety:shocked: .

meeko
08-08-2007, 14:25
Originally posted by eodcole
He didn't just pick it up. He was issued the weapon. I don't know who exactly issued it however. I'll take your word on it I guess that the USAF doesn't issue glocks. I personally wouldn't have believed it anyhow. Well more than half the force scare me with a weapon in their hand. I think the reason everyong wears body armor at CATM is not for training, but for safety:shocked: .


True story

I was deployed to Qatar in 02. I was a fire team leader and we came into the chow hall to eat. We would have a weapons rack by our table (SOP). There were a bunch of other airman (support admin whatever types) that actually said "what are those guns doing here). I thought delevering bombs on Afganistan and someone actually said that. then we went around with the base safty. someone was "concerned/worred" because the 203 gunner carred a can with 18 high explosive grenades. The thought these grenades were going to jump up in and go bang bythemselves while we were eating. we ended up having to drop the grenades off more than 300 yards away at a checkpiont. They just took a 1/4 effectiveness if something was to kick off while we were there the 203 gunner was just a rifleman. Thats the god ol Air force. They are great on computers but no real normal understanding. glad i'm retired.

MrMurphy
08-09-2007, 03:49
Yup.


I think the G19-in-the-Air-Force thing came from the Gulf War.

Rules were apparently more lax back then, and I've heard (reliably) a squadron bought G19s for all it's pilots, and since they all had them, all of them fired and qualified, they were allowed to do so. After a while I think they made them switch back to M9s, but for a while at least, a squadron of pilots was indeed carrying G19s (either all bought individually at the same time or with squadron funds).

I know one master sergeant personally who's about to retire, who was an armed courier for classified info etc during the Gulf War. This was during the .45-to-9 switch timeperiod and he was basically allowed to choose either. He asked if he could use his own .45 (customized Commander) and since he had been qual'd on the 1911 for some time, they said bring it in and shoot it, and you're good. So he did and took it with him (authorized and signed off) for his duties over there.

The question came up because we were talking about deployments and he said "do they still let you do that" and I said "hell no, though we wish!".

CatsMeow
09-11-2007, 21:37
It was in the Guns and Ammo issue regarding the small arms used in the first Gulf War. There was a little article there to the effect that the pilots of a certain USAF squadron, with the approval of their CO, pooled together some funds and bought a batch of G19s. The G19 was touted as being able to fire underwater, thus very useful for a pilot who had to eject over the ocean.:)

meeko
09-12-2007, 17:35
Originally posted by CatsMeow
It was in the Guns and Ammo issue regarding the small arms used in the first Gulf War. There was a little article there to the effect that the pilots of a certain USAF squadron, with the approval of their CO, pooled together some funds and bought a batch of G19s. The G19 was touted as being able to fire underwater, thus very useful for a pilot who had to eject over the ocean.:)

Sounds like another urban legend. A B52 crew from my base went down off Diego Garcia after a boming run. 3 out of 6 did not make it. The last thing they were worried about was if thier handguns worked underwater!

RF7126
09-17-2007, 12:36
I don't know, if I was stuck in the ocean, I'd be thinking "Jaws". ;)

OfficerLow
09-23-2007, 17:47
About 3 or 4 years ago, I was at John Shaw's Mid-South Institute of Self Defense Shooting in Lake Cormorant, MS and ran across an Air Force ParaJumper. He had a Glock 19 and I asked him if it was a personal weapon. He said it was issued.

I posted this another time someone asked about the Air Force issuing Glocks and someone called BS. Apparently there are a few people who don't want to believe it. Oh well.

BrokenArrow
09-27-2007, 14:02
The first Gulf War (91) was 6 yrs after the switch from the M1911A1 to M9 (85).

Stuff happens. I was in a USAF special duty assignment that issued M1911A1s, sometimes carried round in chamber, cocked n locked, concealed, from 84 - 88.

From time to time market surveys and T&Es are run on stuff and given to special folks to play w; could be some of that goin' on.

The Army's new AWG (Asymmetrical Warfare Group) bought G19s recently, so Glock's foot is in the door and they are in the system.

DMF
10-02-2007, 23:56
Here's the real deal. Aircrew sometimes get the M9, or maybe the M9, but if that doesn't suit them they might also get the M9. I flew for several years, had friends flying with all the commands on a variety of aircraft, and none of the pilots, navs, etc, ever qualified on any handgun other than the M9. OSI, and a few other special duty folks get the M11 (aka SIG P228).

Claims of aircrew being issued the G19 are utter and total BS.

isp2605
10-25-2007, 09:40
During GW1 one of our F-16 pilots had an AD in the briefing room as we were set to deploy. He was carrying a Glock 19. I was SF cmdr at the time which those in the USAF know also includes CATM. The squadron commander came to me and wanted us to issue him a Glock 19 too. I told him we didn't have Glock 19s and didn't issue Glock 19s. He said the pilot who had the AD had reported that the Glock 19 he was carrying was issued to him by CATM. Ain't no way. Didn't have them, didn't issue them, he didn't get it from us. Turned out it was his personal G19 which after the AD he told his boss it was issued thinking it would keep him out of trouble. Unless someone checks or actually knows a person could say anything is issued to them. Just because they say it's issued doesn't mean that it was.

coastalcop
11-02-2007, 04:24
I sold a S&W 686 with night sights and magnaport to a pilot being deployd during desert 1, said he wanted something with more umph than the mod 10 he was likely to get. He didnt seem to think it was a big deal.

but remember... to err is human... to forgive is not SAC policy.

use2b6L32
11-02-2007, 14:45
I carried a G-21 to Iraq (and other places) as an aircrew guy.

But it wasn't issued and it wasn't authorized.

srfl
11-05-2007, 07:45
About 3 or 4 years ago, I was at John Shaw's Mid-South Institute of Self Defense Shooting in Lake Cormorant, MS and ran across an Air Force ParaJumper. He had a Glock 19 and I asked him if it was a personal weapon. He said it was issued.

I posted this another time someone asked about the Air Force issuing Glocks and someone called BS. Apparently there are a few people who don't want to believe it. Oh well.

Do you recall which Rescue or STS this PJ came from? I was in an ANG Rescue group/wing for 11 years and never saw a Glock in use by anyone....but then again, I left that unit for the AFRES four years ago.

Rob96
11-11-2007, 15:35
There are units within the SPEC OPS community that are using the G19. That PJ may be assigned to one of them.

MozambiqueDrill
11-11-2007, 19:43
I might as well chime in on this one. Having first hand experience with CCT and mobile TACS, we were never "issued" a Glock or any other firearm that was not AF inventory. However, during GW1 and other assignments, I carried a Glock and another carried a S&W 686 4" .357. Neither weapon was "issued", but we had the liberty to carry and train as we deemed necessary, particularly when deployed to a hostile theater of operation. More so, since the early 90s, joint ops has become standard and the other spec ops team members had greater liberty to carry "non-issued" weapons.

This was back in the day (not to long ago) before the AF / military became obsessed with being "politically correct" as opposed to the motto "whatever it takes".

JoeM
11-15-2007, 02:36
Got a chance to use a DoE range and they had a few Glocks on hand. Only time I've seen it in the AF.

Teej
10-20-2008, 18:12
Well it seems US Glocks from GA are ending up in Iraq. I read somewhere 50,000 were ordered for the new Iraqi Police force. Appears the police are not receiving all of them. We've all seen special forces with AK's so I am sure if someone wants a Glock they will find one. Whether or not they are being issued?? that is another question. The majority of private contractors I've seen appear to have Glock side arms. (mm ammo is very easy to come by around the world.
---------------------------------------------------------------
August 24, 2007 Turkish police displayed evidence this week of what they say is the growing black-market trade of weapons of U.S. origin being smuggled across the border from neighboring Iraq.
In the border town of Mardin in southeastern Turkey, officers unwrapped 18 Austrian-made Glock pistols and laid them on a table. Mardin Police Chief Ismet Tasan said the guns were originally donated by the U.S. military to the Iraqi police. The pistols were later sold to arms dealers in northern Iraq for more than $1,500 apiece and then smuggled to Turkey, where they can be resold for prices as high as $5,000.
"Sixty of the 140 guns captured by our team in the last six months are Glocks," Tasan told reporters. "We have observed an increase in the demand for these weapons."
Turkish officials say this seizure is just the tip of the iceberg.
Last month, the Turkish government announced it was finding disturbingly high numbers of weapons of apparent American origin, including Glock pistols, AK-47s and M-16s, in the hands of captured Kurdish separatists from the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.
The PKK has battled the Turkish state since 1984, operating from camps in mountains along the Iraqi border. Both the United States and its NATO ally, Turkey, officially label the PKK a terrorist organization.
"When we searched the origin of the weapons that were seized on some of the terrorists, we noticed that these are the [same] ones given to the Iraqi army," Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said in a television interview on July 16. "We asked for clarification from the Americans."
Professor Ihsan Bal, a terrorism expert from the International Strategic Research Center in Ankara, says that "terrorists are ending up with American weapons." Like top Turkish government officials, he stopped short of accusing the United States of directly arming the PKK. Instead, he blamed the small-arms proliferation on American negligence and mismanagement.
But, Bal added, with American popularity among Turks at an all-time low, "quite a number of people are ready to believe that America might have directly [given these] weapons to the terrorist organization."
"We do not do business with the PKK," responded Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell. "We don't talk to them [or] deal with them, let alone arm them as a matter of policy."
Last July, the Department of Defense sent its top lawyer, William J. Haynes, to Ankara to meet with Turkish officials. A Pentagon spokesman said the U.S. government is investigating the Turkish allegation, along with revelations in a recent U.S. Government Accountability Office report that found the Department of Defense cannot account for 190,000 pistols and rifles that were distributed to Iraqi security forces during the first two years of the U.S. occupation.
"There is a very large, wide-ranging investigation underway to try to get to the bottom of a number of issues," Morrell said. More than a month after the investigation was launched, the Pentagon said it is still too soon to confirm or deny the allegations that the PKK is using American-issued weapons from Iraq.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, however, U.S. government officials stationed both in Washington and in the Middle East said it is possible that thousands of weapons given by the United States to the Iraqi army and police have slipped into the black market and into the hands of arms smugglers and terrorists operating in neighboring countries like Turkey.
"I think the U.S. certainly didn't intend for its weapons that it provided to Iraqi security forces to end up in the hands of criminals and insurgents in other countries," said Rachel Stohl, an analyst specializing in the illegal arms trade at the Center for Defense Information in Washington.
Stohl said the proliferation of American weapons across the region is an unfortunate consequence of the U.S. forces' rush to arm Iraqi security services.
"Weapons from Iraq can certainly have a devastating effect on countries in the region," Stohl explained. "They can be used for crime and violence, to assist insurgencies or opposition groups in various countries, and in some cases may actually be used to destabilize governments."
In Baghdad, a high-level official in the Iraqi Ministry of Interior described, also on condition of anonymity, an elaborate system to divert weapons from Ministry of Interior facilities to local arms traffickers and militias. The official claimed large quantities of American-supplied weapons, including M-16s, MP-5s, MP-4s and Glocks, were being sold and, in some cases, exported to neighboring countries.
"It's not just guns that are slipping over the border and into general circulation," said Hugh Pope, a senior analyst with the International Crisis Group in Turkey. "It's also explosive materials; it's also guerilla techniques that are being used by the Kurdish rebels in Turkey that have clearly been copied from the successful tactics of insurgents in Iraq like roadside bombs. I think that the guns are just a symbol of a larger problem."
Scores of Turkish soldiers and gendarme have been killed this year and many more wounded as part of a recent upsurge in fighting with PKK guerillas. Often, these fatalities involve roadside bombs.
The Turkish military has repeatedly called for a cross-border military operation to attack PKK camps in northern Iraq. Washington has urged the Turks to hold back, arguing that an incursion would only further destabilize the region.
In the meantime, smugglers continue to ship American-issued weapons across the border yet another unintended consequence of the U.S. occupation of Iraq.
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TACLOAD
10-20-2008, 23:05
I'm a C-130 Aircrew member and all we use is the M-9. I going on a special duty in two weeks for one year, and I have to carry a M-9 concealed whenever I go off base, which is 5 or 6 days a week. When we were down in Colombia with Army SF, the M-9 was the only weapon that was used on off base excursions. I would love to take my Glock 26 with me.

AFshooter
11-08-2008, 21:03
I work with a guy who flew gunner position on Buffs in the late 80's. He said back then it was S&W revolvers and whatever you brought with you.
He still has the .25 Auto Beretta he purchased when he was an airman on the advise of his crew AC.
He's a MSGT now, and still brings the pistol out to our squadron shooting ... I mean... team building days.

MrMurphy
11-09-2008, 05:19
Back in the Gulf War, there were also quite a few units that had not gotten Berettas yet.

My father's Navy Reserve unit was one of the first Navy units on the ground (port defense unit, they have to be) and they were issued 1911s. Not enough M9s.