Kel-Tec Sub 2000...Pistol or not? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mac66
08-09-2007, 15:35
Is the Sub 2000 considered a pistol in MI?

Found one at a good price while on vacation guy won't sell without a CCW or PP. I don't have or need a CCW, too far away from home to go get permission from big brother.

Doesn't really matter at this point, just curious what others think?

wizzi01
08-09-2007, 15:53
No it is a carbine. He probably thinks you need the cpl/pp because it is 9/40. here is the info on it Kel-Tec Sub2000 (http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html)

mac66
08-09-2007, 17:58
Originally posted by wizzi01
No it is a carbine. He probably thinks you need the cpl/pp because it is 9/40. here is the info on it Kel-Tec Sub2000 (http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html)

No, he thinks because it folds it falls under the 30" rule. In MI rifles/shotguns under 30" that are functional when folded are required by big brother to be registered as a pistol.

wizzi01
08-09-2007, 19:11
That receiver was intended as a rifle it can never be classified as a pistol when the company sells it as a rifle. Or am I wrong?

I found this on the michigan page. I am still not sure about the whole cpl/pp but food for thought.

16. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?
MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess. MCL 750.224d There is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.

The possessor must comply with Section 2 [License to Purchase] and Section 9 [Safety Inspection Certificate/registration] of Act 372.

centennial
08-10-2007, 06:39
The Sub 2000 measures less than 30" when extended if it is not fitted with the slip on buttpad.
Im Michigan, they need to be registered as a handgun.

mac66
08-11-2007, 05:46
Originally posted by centennial
The Sub 2000 measures less than 30" when extended if it is not fitted with the slip on buttpad.
Im Michigan, they need to be registered as a handgun.

edited....nevermind.:)

Jason12345
08-13-2007, 10:59
The above comment is correct. The carbine is a rifle and the barrel is long enough, but because the overall length is 1/2" too short for Michigan law it MUST be registered as a pistol. This means a CCW or pistol purchase permit to buy it.

I went through this same inquiry before I bought one about 6 months ago. It also caused a lot of confusion at the Sheriffs office when I had it inspected.

Jason

wizzi01
08-13-2007, 17:40
So if you have to have it registered as a pistol; can you carry it concealed?

TFin04
08-13-2007, 17:46
I own one in MI and it is registered as a handgun.

MakeMineaP99
08-13-2007, 21:05
Originally posted by wizzi01
So if you have to have it registered as a pistol; can you carry it concealed?

Yes.

mac66
09-04-2007, 12:46
The option it seems, would be to buy one in Ohio or elsewhere, bring it back to Michigan and put a butt pad or flash hider or something on it to make it over 30". Then you wouldn't have to register it.

My PD has no problem giving me Purchase Permits by the handful but I just can't wrap my mind around registering a rifle as a pistol particularly when the difference is 1/2".

wizzi01
09-04-2007, 16:49
Originally posted by mac66
The option it seems, would be to buy one in Ohio or elsewhere, bring it back to Michigan and put a butt pad or flash hider or something on it to make it over 30". Then you wouldn't have to register it.

My PD has no problem giving me Purchase Permits by the handful but I just can't wrap my mind around registering a rifle as a pistol particularly when the difference is 1/2".

That is a big no no isn't it? I think that falls into federal crime territory.

MakeMineaP99
09-04-2007, 20:37
Under Federal law, a person may purchase a long gun from an FFL in any state (FOPA 86). MI may have more strict laws.

Any butt pad or flash surpressor would have to be attached by welding, 1100* F Silver soldier or similar so it could not be readily removed.

mac66
09-05-2007, 08:17
Originally posted by MakeMineaP99
Under Federal law, a person may purchase a long gun from an FFL in any state (FOPA 86). MI may have more strict laws.

Any butt pad or flash surpressor would have to be attached by welding, 1100* F Silver soldier or similar so it could not be readily removed.

Anyone can buy a rifle in another state and bring it back. unless that other state has a specific law against it. I've bought rifles in VA, TN, KY and Florida.

Since the Sub2000 or SU16 is not a pistol in any other state it can be legally bought and brought back to MI. If you kept it in original configuration you would have to register it by state law. If you made it longer than 30" you would not have to register it.

There is no state requirement for welding or permantantly affixing and federal law does not apply because the gun is a legal rifle under federal law.

wizzi01
09-05-2007, 16:51
Ah ok so that law is for handguns. I love this place.