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russelldehart
08-10-2007, 09:05
I read a posting on another board where a respondant said he used his hunter safety training to satisfy the conceal carry requirement for training. Is this legit?

rvrctyrngr
08-10-2007, 09:52
Yup.

russelldehart
08-10-2007, 10:00
I got my hunters education certification online. Never had to set foot on a range. Does that count as well? I'm not saying I reccomend this, I'm just a little suprised there isn't some sort of requirement that you demonstrate the ability to actually apply what you've learned.

rvrctyrngr
08-10-2007, 18:39
Couldn't tell ya about that one. I would think they would want an actual classroom certificate, but I'm not sure. Worth a call to the division of licensing, though.

I got my original state-wide license in 1987 with just a copy of my military ID.

Usingmyrights
08-11-2007, 17:56
Here's the problem with hunters ed cards, DD214s, NRA instructor, etc. They don't teach you FL law. I get asked if peoples DD-214s will count.
"Yes, but did the military teach you FL law?"
"Well.. No, but we learned how to shoot the 9mm."
"How long ago was that?"
"Um... 20 years"
"So you didn't learn FL law and its been 20 years anyway. Take the class"

I'll usually ask them questions like can they carry at a Jags game, in a bank, bar, etc.

rich52us
08-11-2007, 18:27
Originally posted by Usingmyrights
Here's the problem with hunters ed cards, DD214s, NRA instructor, etc. They don't teach you FL law. I get asked if peoples DD-214s will count.
"Yes, but did the military teach you FL law?"
"Well.. No, but we learned how to shoot the 9mm."
"How long ago was that?"
"Um... 20 years"
"So you didn't learn FL law and its been 20 years anyway. Take the class"

I'll usually ask them questions like can they carry at a Jags game, in a bank, bar, etc.

All this is true and I basically agree, but the answer is, yes, the hunter safety card is accepted by FL to fulfill the training requirement.

Usingmyrights
08-11-2007, 18:38
Originally posted by rich52us
All this is true and I basically agree, but the answer is, yes, the hunter safety card is accepted by FL to fulfill the training requirement.

Which I stated. The point I was trying to make is unless your going to do all of your own research, then you need to take the class to learn the law. Ignorance won't get you out of trouble, because you have the app signed and noterized that you know the law. Having a question time to time is one thing, but not knowing the basics can get you into alot of trouble.

rvrctyrngr
08-12-2007, 08:56
Originally posted by Usingmyrights
Which I stated. The point I was trying to make is unless your going to do all of your own research, then you need to take the class to learn the law. Ignorance won't get you out of trouble, because you have the app signed and noterized that you know the law. Having a question time to time is one thing, but not knowing the basics can get you into alot of trouble.

True enough...however...

I've sat through numerous CCW 'approved' classes with friends/relatives that were applying for a license. Only one of them did any kind of job at all in explaining the legal issues of Florida carry.

Seriously...how much are you going to learn/retain in a 2 hour class at a gunshow? Takes some people that long just to fill out the paperwork.

If Florida wants to have a training component, then it needs to be a training component.....standard class material with standard info presented. Otherwise, it's just a paperwork drill and a rubber stamp.

Usingmyrights
08-12-2007, 09:29
True, the instructor I know has a fingerprint tech, notary, and someone to take pics with him. In theroy, you can get everything done in 2 hours while learning about the law. I guess it depends on if they actually listen or not.

rvrctyrngr
08-12-2007, 09:49
The guy you're talking about does about the best 'quickie' job, and he actually knows what he's talking about.

Lonnie Morton used to do a very thorough class here...don't know if he's still teaching or not.

My issue is that the training 'requirements' are so vague as to be basically useless. I know of several 'certified' CCW instructors who simply sign a certificate for the $$....in and done in 10 minutes with the stipulation that you read all the 'stuff' they hand you....nutz.

Florida has strict standards for just about every license/certification that you can obtain in the state...with the notable exception of the CWFL...you would think that the state would take that one seriously as well. IF they are going to require training at all, then require PROPER, STANDARDIZED training.

Remember, the requirement is for a 'firearms safety course'...doesn't say diddly about knowing the law.

Hell, I may just develop a course and sell it to them!

Yeah...someone pee'd in my wheaties this morning:supergrin:

Usingmyrights
08-12-2007, 09:57
I'd like to see some basic requirements on the firearms end, other then just "safe handling". The guy I know is Jim Mangles, he's a great guy and will do private lessons that go in much more detail. I've never sat in on one of his classes, but will usually ask him if I've got any questions.

xm15
08-17-2007, 07:45
I'd love to see Florida increase the requirements to obtain a CWP. Require actually qualifying with a firearm, training and testing on the weapons & firearms laws, and last but not least, training on the justifiable use of force.

Of course, any suggestion like that will bring out "THE 2ND AMMENDMENT IS MY CARRY PERMIT!!!" crowd, who will argue that everyone who can fog up a mirror should be able to carry a gun...

rvrctyrngr
08-17-2007, 08:08
I don't necessarily agree or disagree with a training REQUIREMENT, though certainly anyone carrying a gun ought to be trained in its proper use. The more that is required, the more expensive it will be, and some folks just won't be able to afford it. Do they not have the same right to self defense as those of us who CAN afford quality training?

My point is that IF the state is going to require training, then the state ought to offer training (like they do for driving/motorcycle), and it should be STANDARDIZED training, whoever teaches it, state or private business.

Kingslayer
08-17-2007, 12:49
Yep hunter's safety course or DD-214 doesn't teach you Florida law.

So what?

You get a packet that has all the laws explained out for you in common english as opposed to legalese. Plus, even if you do know the law and get pulled over by a cop that doesn't know the laws, guess who's side he's going to take...

Not yours. If you can pass on the training and get your CCW, by all means do so. But read the packet, learn the laws, and get a copy of Gutmacher's book.

Usingmyrights
08-17-2007, 19:42
Originally posted by Kingslayer
Yep hunter's safety course or DD-214 doesn't teach you Florida law.

So what?

You get a packet that has all the laws explained out for you in common english as opposed to legalese. Plus, even if you do know the law and get pulled over by a cop that doesn't know the laws, guess who's side he's going to take...

Not yours. If you can pass on the training and get your CCW, by all means do so. But read the packet, learn the laws, and get a copy of Gutmacher's book.

The thing is most people don't actually read the packet. They may breifly skim through it, but thats about it. Also the stuff in the packet is spelled out just like it is anywhere else. If you want to use alternate training and read the packet then thats fine. Just read it so you know the law.

noway
08-17-2007, 22:06
{I've sat through numerous CCW 'approved' classes with friends/relatives that were applying for a license. Only one of them did any kind of job at all in explaining the legal issues of Florida carry.

Seriously...how much are you going to learn/retain in a 2 hour class at a gunshow? Takes some people that long just to fill out the paperwork.c}


ditto;
same here, I'm one of those that got my CCW over 8 years ago with a DD214. Never took a class, sat in a few, but ould I take legal advice from a CCW class instructor who 1> is not a lawyer 2> HIS?HER views might or might not be valid 3> why do I need a class 4> by FL laws no mention of qualifications of knowning the law is even mention;



h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:

1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;



So once again , why must you spend 40-80 dollars on a course to carring a firearm ? Why ?

rvrctyrngr
08-18-2007, 08:05
My point exactly, noway...the requirements say 'firearms safety'...not diddly about actually knowing the statutes.