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jojo_G19
08-27-2007, 06:33
guys

im currently looking for a shotgun for defense.

any suggestions weather i should get a pump action or a semi-auto??

in currenty eyeing these...

armscor m30 pump action shotgun.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Auey/m30r8new.jpg

mossberg 590
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Auey/590-20withHogue_WEB_0.jpg

winchester 1100
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Auey/1100_competition_master.jpg

and
winchester 1300
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Auey/winchester_m1300_12_18_pump.jpg



do u guys know the local authorized dealer of there shotgun?? and howmuch?

i dont know if the winchester 1100 and the 1300 are locally available.




my still open for a semi auto shotgun if there are any good suggestion.


thanks
jojo

cebuboy
08-27-2007, 06:37
If it were me, I'll go for the 590A1. Twin pines is selling them for 40k++.

If you want a semi-auto, I'd reccomend the benelli m1/m2. and if you can afford it, the benelli m4 is as good as it gets.

OTOH, the saiga is also a good choice... if you dont mind dealing with "whose name shall not be spoken in bog" (nashe) :)

vega
08-27-2007, 06:47
Most suggestions I often read are pump for HD shotgun. Just practice with it so you don't short-stroke it. I wonder if semis jams a lot.


Originally posted by cebuboy
If it were me, I'll go for the 590A1. Twin pines is selling them for 40k++.

If you want a semi-auto, I'd reccomend the benelli m1/m2. and if you can afford it, the benelli m4 is as good as it gets.

OTOH, the saiga is also a good choice... if you dont mind dealing with "whose name shall not be spoken in bog" (nashe) :)
Yes you can mention Nashe, it just opens up another window for flaming. :supergrin:

deenoh
08-27-2007, 07:07
Personally, for HD, I'd get a pump. Among your choices, I'd go for the Mossberg

jojo_G19
08-27-2007, 07:14
howmuch does an benelli m4 costs?? last time i checked 100k++. i wonder whats so special with the m4. why is it so expensive for a semi?


i have also checked hahn manila, they carry hatsan shotgun. their hatsan escort looks nice. and costs nice too at 20k+.
i just wonder if its just the same with the karatay pump which i had to sell because of the recoil. it has a terrible recoil.



cebuboy;
have you tried shooting the mossberg 590? how was the recoil??



tnx
jojo

jojo_G19
08-27-2007, 07:18
Originally posted by deenoh
Personally, for HD, I'd get a pump. Among your choices, I'd go for the Mossberg


sir deenoh;

why a pump?? any disadvantage with a semi??

im eyeing on the semi because i just feel that it is easier to use. no more pumping :supergrin:


are there anymore SG that u can recommend which i have not listed?? i really have very limited knowledge with shotguns.


tnx
jojo:supergrin:

deenoh
08-27-2007, 07:51
I'm no expert ha. just for the record :) I just like shotguns.

As for why I prefer the pump, simplicity. It can be easier to clear a malfunction with a pump. As vega said, just dont short stroke it. Happened to me once, "click" lang. Hehe. Also, in well practiced hands, the pump can be shot quickly too.

Turkish shotguns are ok both in quality and price. Tisas, Akkar, Hatsan, EGE

vega
08-27-2007, 08:49
Originally posted by deenoh
Also, in well practiced hands, the pump can be shot quickly too.

Turkish shotguns are ok both in quality and price. Tisas, Akkar, Hatsan, EGE
I am not that well practiced but whenever I take my shotgun for a spin I always make sure that at the end of each shooting session I practice with pumping while on recoil. Like you said it can be shot real quick.

cebuboy
08-27-2007, 09:39
Originally posted by jojo_G19
howmuch does an benelli m4 costs?? last time i checked 100k++. i wonder whats so special with the m4. why is it so expensive for a semi?


i have also checked hahn manila, they carry hatsan shotgun. their hatsan escort looks nice. and costs nice too at 20k+.
i just wonder if its just the same with the karatay pump which i had to sell because of the recoil. it has a terrible recoil.



cebuboy;
have you tried shooting the mossberg 590? how was the recoil??



tnx
jojo

Why the m4 is so expensive?, because its a benelli :)

Hatsan and Karatay are almost the same, they are light guns, thus they tend to kick more:) but their semi-autos kick lightly due to the gas action, just remember to stock up on o-rings.

Yup, have shot a friends 590A1. the gun is heavier, its all steel so the kick is less:)

Try to hook up with guys who got shotties, its best that you try different models... hth

gatmig
08-27-2007, 10:20
Bikethief is selling his Mossberg 590a for a good price. check out buy&sell thread..

Dok
08-27-2007, 18:08
i ordered a hatsan escort pump. compared to karatay, it more heavier. karatay is very light. hatsan is more well built, and the forend is nearer to the receiver so pumping is shorter

New_comer
08-27-2007, 18:10
Originally posted by jojo_G19
...

i just wonder if its just the same with the karatay pump which i had to sell because of the recoil. it has a terrible recoil.

cebuboy;
have you tried shooting the mossberg 590? how was the recoil??

tnx
jojo

Like it or not, you've just got to live with fierce recoil if you prefer shotguns as a primary defence weapon. The apparent reduction of the kick in using heavier weapons may stil not be enough to appease your desire for a sweeter shooting weapon, unless you prefer to lug around an anvil if only to dissipate kick. If handguns are the scalpel, shotguns are the 'bolos' or heavy axe of small arms. They're supposed to be harsh.

But if you've just got to have a shotgun, may I suggest you get a 20ga instead of the 12ga, and shoot #4buck instead of #00 magnum rounds. You'd definitely feel less kick as the round has comparatively less energy, while not necessarily losing effectiveness as a fantastic man-stopper that shotguns are. I remember PBD sells a semi in 20ga last gunshow, I suggest you check it out. Twin Pines also has a long list of branded SG's that may be in 20ga.

If it still wouldn't work out for you, there's still the .410, which energy-wise is more than a match to a 45acp or 357mag. Good luck! ;)

Allegra
08-27-2007, 19:02
Had a spas12 and a mossy 500 dati
the mossy was definitely lighter but had more pleasnt recoil if you can call sg recoil pleasant

i go w/ the military version of the 500 yung may bayonet stud
or a remy 870 w/ polymer furniture

question - for defense of farm and home do we really need a sling?

vega
08-27-2007, 21:13
Originally posted by Allegra
question - for defense of farm and home do we really need a sling? It's a lot easier to lug around if you have a sling. I used to carry my SG African style (not sure if right term) with the butt on top and the sling instead of the rifle on front. With the right lenght of sling it is easy to swing forward.

deenoh
08-27-2007, 23:54
I'd personally do away with the sling for HD especially since there won't be a lot of moving to be done inside a house. Less clutter to deal with. I just found out last week that because of a tactical light attachment (the inexpensive types) I had on my SG, it would not properly cycle during semi auto. I think the clamps were to tight. Now, the SG does not have any "borloloys" attached to it just to be sure.

But for farms, it would probably be more practical with a sling.

CatsMeow
08-28-2007, 00:47
Any shotgun you end up with should have a nice, generous, buttstock recoil pad. Otherwise, you will remember each and every round.:)

Allegra
08-28-2007, 05:17
Originally posted by vega
It's a lot easier to lug around if you have a sling. I used to carry my SG African style (not sure if right term) with the butt on top and the sling instead of the rifle on front. With the right lenght of sling it is easy to swing forward.

Thats one of ther fastest way to present an sg :)
Pocket carry pwede rin kasi kung sa farm and it doesnt need a sling

darwin25
08-28-2007, 05:47
I always carry a long gun with a sling attached in the left side of the long gun. The sling is looped around my neck. Long gun in front of my torso. The sling should be long enough so it would allow you to shoulder your weapon with ease.

vega
08-28-2007, 07:57
Originally posted by New_comer

But if you've just got to have a shotgun, may I suggest you get a 20ga instead of the 12ga, and shoot #4buck instead of #00 magnum rounds.

If it still wouldn't work out for you, there's still the .410, which energy-wise is more than a match to a 45acp or 357mag. Good luck! ;)
20ga definitely has less recoil, my 120lb daughter can handle that.

Are there lots of 410 ammo in PH?

New_comer
08-28-2007, 17:28
The only shop I've seen sell 410's is PBD, though I'm not sure if they're some sort of snakeshot, birdshot or buck.

isuzu
08-28-2007, 20:19
I would go for a pump action Mossberg. Our firearm instructor suggested a pump action even for hunting ducks. I had an Armscor shotgun, and I had it tuned by my gunsmith right out of the box. Never had issues with it.

isuzu
08-28-2007, 20:37
Originally posted by vega
20ga definitely has less recoil, my 120lb daughter can handle that.

Are there lots of 410 ammo in PH?

Quite hard to find 20 ga and 410s in the Philippines. And very expensive, too.

kamelot
08-29-2007, 06:16
hi jojo_G19!

whatever SG you buy as long as you become proficient with it would be a good HD firearm.being proficient definitely needs some range time.

what SG you like depends on how deep your pocket is. shotguns in general, will outlast you. an armscor SG as featured has been "battle tested" in the firing range. parts are readily available... it is relatively cheap. You have to practice with your SG so you can identify and familiarize yourself with its quirks.

the Mossberg has been used many many "days at the office" as claimed by renowned LEO and instructor Gabe Suarez.

the Winchester is claimed by Pat Kelley as the fastest shooting SG (according to his tests)... a bit faster than the Benelli.

the Beretta Xtrema has come out to be one of the sweetest shooting SG out there. I've seen one of our local shooters do split times in the very low teens of a second with this baby. note that these ladies are quite expensive as you add more bells and whistles...

I have seen Turkish shotguns (Hatsan and Karatay) shine in competitions... they are affordable and are making a name in the shooting circuits. EGE semi auto shotguns (deenoh of WSC is the guy to talk to)will make its debut in the range one of these days...unless it has presented itself there already.

before buying, ask several shotgunners if you could try out a few rounds with their different shotguns. note what feels good to you. use good ammo, not reloads or range ammo out of respect for the owners. i'm sure they are more than willing to help. hope this helps.:)

jerrytrini
08-29-2007, 08:59
Mossberg (marine cote) would be my choice due to humidity. Remington 870 comes second. The latter is very easy to maintain and reliability is without question and so is the Mossberg.

jerrytrini
08-29-2007, 12:26
In addition, the sound of the pump's slide racking should also be a deterrent.

My former department's preferred "tube" is the Remington 870 with side saddles and butt cuffs.

If ever you get yourself one of these babies, make sure you shoot them out at least ten rounds every six months and clean out the bore really well. Its worst enemy is RUST. I know, I was the divisional armorer and have seen first hand that even if the storage area is climate controlled, rust would still develop. Just my suggestion gentlemen and ladies.

atmarcella
08-29-2007, 22:28
the one drawback of a shotgun is when your shooting thru a barrier...

their was this one bog member who told the story of a friend who shot an intruder thru a window w/ grills... the bullets richochet'd and grazed him in the head, i think he had to go to a hospital after in the middle of the night. afterwhich i think he switched to an AR15/M16....

just a thought...

batangueno
08-30-2007, 07:07
Originally posted by atmarcella
the one drawback of a shotgun is when your shooting thru a barrier...

their was this one bog member who told the story of a friend who shot an intruder thru a window w/ grills... the bullets richochet'd and grazed him in the head, i think he had to go to a hospital after in the middle of the night. afterwhich i think he switched to an AR15/M16....

just a thought...
Although if it was an M16 bullet that ricochet'd and hit him on the head.... he would probably dead by now. :supergrin:

jojo_G19
08-30-2007, 08:47
Originally posted by batangueno
Although if it was an M16 bullet that ricochet'd and hit him on the head.... he would probably dead by now. :supergrin:



i dont think an m16 bullet would ricochet from hitting a window grill, it would go through it.

i have seen m16 bullets fired though a standard m16 go through 1/4 thick plate.

atmarcella
08-31-2007, 01:50
yup...i think thats what they did after, they went to the range and fired some 5.56 at 1/4 inch square bars, the bullets went thru like a hot knife on butter...afterwhich i think he sold his shotgun and got himself a black rifle:supergrin:

New_comer
08-31-2007, 02:04
Maybe he hasn't seen yet the devastation a shotgun slug can do. It might change his mind. ;)

atmarcella
08-31-2007, 02:21
slug?....as in rifled slug? yung 1 slug per bullet lang?....that thing can take out an elephant...but doesnt it defeat the purpose of having a shotgun? i.e. you dont have to aim carefully cos marami kang bala tinatapon sa kalaban mo....

cebuboy
08-31-2007, 03:58
ahihihi, who says that you dont have to aim a shotgun to hit the target? :) from 0-15 meters, 00 buck can do really nasty damage :)

batangueno
08-31-2007, 04:54
Originally posted by jojo_G19
i dont think an m16 bullet would ricochet from hitting a window grill, it would go through it.

i have seen m16 bullets fired though a standard m16 go through 1/4 thick plate.
That's even scarier, what if i missed and the rifle bullet goes through to the next bedroom or next house. :shocked:

bunganga
08-31-2007, 06:22
Has anybody ever considered a full-auto 22 rifle as an alternative to the shotgun?

Multiple projectiles downrange at the pull of a trigger with less recoil and less muzzle blast. With a ruger 10/22, you can use an aftermarket magazine that loads from 25-30 bullets.

vega
08-31-2007, 07:13
Originally posted by bunganga
Has anybody ever considered a full-auto 22 rifle as an alternative to the shotgun?

Multiple projectiles downrange at the pull of a trigger with less recoil and less muzzle blast. With a ruger 10/22, you can use an aftermarket magazine that loads from 25-30 bullets.
Are there conversions sold in PH? I know there is an aftermarket but you have to crank it just like the Gatling.

jojo_G19
08-31-2007, 07:50
Originally posted by batangueno
That's even scarier, what if i missed and the rifle bullet goes through to the next bedroom or next house. :shocked:


thats just the same with the shotgun, if u miss with it you'll have to be accounted for 9 shots instead of 1 with the m16.:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:



jojo


BTW, does the shotgun slug goes straight like the rifle bullet do or will it just do what the shotgun shots do?? see, shotgun barrel does not have barrel grooves that spins the slug, thus, it is not "that" acurate. correct me if im wrong plss :supergrin:

New_comer
08-31-2007, 07:59
Originally posted by atmarcella
slug?....as in rifled slug? yung 1 slug per bullet lang?....that thing can take out an elephant...but doesnt it defeat the purpose of having a shotgun? i.e. you dont have to aim carefully cos marami kang bala tinatapon sa kalaban mo....

Yun eh kung #6 birdshot ang gamit mo. At 6 meters, mga isang metro ang spread ng pinong mga bolitas. Pero sa 00 buck, baka mga 8"-12" lang ang spread.

YOU STILL HAVE TO AIM A SHOTGUN CAREFULLY, lalu na kung higit 4 meters na ang layo. Baka ricochet lang ang tumama sa kalaban kung mag hip-shooting ka.

New_comer
08-31-2007, 08:13
Originally posted by jojo_G19
thats just the same with the shotgun, if u miss with it you'll have to be accounted for 9 shots instead of 1 with the m16.:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:



jojo


BTW, does the shotgun slug goes straight like the rifle bullet do or will it just do what the shotgun shots do?? see, shotgun barrel does not have barrel grooves that spins the slug, thus, it is not "that" acurate. correct me if im wrong plss :supergrin:

At home defense distance between 0-10 meters, the raw ballistic characteristic of the slug wouldn't matter. You're still throwing an ounce of solid hurt at more than 2000ft-lbs to your target, powerful enough to still kill after passing thru bulletproof glass. Parang Pacman na naka power pellets yan sa pwersa! Kahit Yale o Master na solid padlock, wasak dyan

Allegra
08-31-2007, 08:18
Originally posted by New_comer
Yun eh kung #6 birdshot ang gamit mo. At 6 meters, mga isang metro ang spread ng pinong mga bolitas. Pero sa 00 buck, baka mga 8"-12" lang ang spread.

YOU STILL HAVE TO AIM A SHOTGUN CAREFULLY, lalu na kung higit 4 meters na ang layo. Baka ricochet lang ang tumama sa kalaban kung mag hip-shooting ka.


I thought pellet spread from a std 18in barrel was 1inch per yard?

jojo_G19
08-31-2007, 08:21
Originally posted by Allegra
I thought pellet spread from a std 18in barrel was 1inch per yard?

so at4 meters, that'll just me 4 inches radius. :sad:

New_comer
08-31-2007, 08:51
http://www.theboxotruth.com/images/6-13.jpg

Here's a pic from the Box o' Truth. The big hole is from a slug, the small ones are from various pistol and rifle cartridges, including the 7.62.

Yes, that's bulletproof glass ;)

As regards birdshot spread, I shot a boxful of #6 thru my Rem870 at several steel drums. They hardly made an impression on the rusted surface of the metal, ga-mini bilao ang lapad ng tama at 6m-8m away. Pero sa 00buck, matatakpan ng palad ang mga butas.

New_comer
08-31-2007, 09:47
Originally posted by New_comer
At home defense distance between 0-10 meters, the raw ballistic characteristic of the slug wouldn't matter. You're still throwing an ounce of solid hurt at more than 2000ft-lbs to your target, powerful enough to still kill after passing thru bulletproof glass. Parang Pacman na naka power pellets yan sa pwersa! Kahit Yale o Master na solid padlock, wasak dyan

Kulang pa pala turing ko. Nasa 2500Ft-lbs na pwersa pala kung 1 oz at 1500 fps na typical sa sabot round. In comparison, pistol calibers generate from 300-500 ft-lbs lang. Bale limang 45acp o walong 9mm na sabay tatama sa target. Aray! ;)

Allegra
08-31-2007, 10:08
Originally posted by jojo_G19
so at4 meters, that'll just me 4 inches radius. :sad:


Thats what the Gunsite sg video said , but I guess they were talking about 00s

userfriendly
08-31-2007, 21:09
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong. A normal 12 guage 00 buckshot will contain around 8 pellets of .36, is this correct? So getting hit by one is like being shot with an 8 round burst from a 9mm gun with every round connecting at the same time.

BTW, what caliber would a 12 guage be? .50 ba 14.5mm... what?

New_comer
08-31-2007, 21:17
Originally posted by userfriendly
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong. A normal 12 guage 00 buckshot will contain around 8 pellets of .36, is this correct? So getting hit by one is like being shot with an 8 round burst from a 9mm gun with every round connecting at the same time.

BTW, what caliber would a 12 guage be? .50 ba 14.5mm... what?

From wikipedia: "A 12 gauge shotgun, nominally 0.729 inches, can range from a tight 0.720 inches to an extreme overbore of 0.800 inches."

So a 12 ga slug would be a .729 caliber 437 grain bullet. Compare that to a 230 grain .45acp or 147grain .355 9mm bullet. ;)

atmarcella
08-31-2007, 23:58
BTW, does the shotgun slug goes straight like the rifle bullet do or will it just do what the shotgun shots do?? see, shotgun barrel does not have barrel grooves that spins the slug, thus, it is not "that" acurate. correct me if im wrong plss

jo,
the slug has rifling in it...thats why some people call it rifled slug.

another thought,
isnt it "too much" to use a rifled slug on a human being....but then again....

New_comer
09-01-2007, 00:13
Originally posted by atmarcella
jo,
the slug has rifling in it...thats why some people call it rifled slug.

another thought,
isnt it "too much" to use a rifled slug on a human being....but then again....

The slug spins alright, so it can be effective at much greater distance than home defense situations. But its supposed to be a close quarter round, not for sniping. Use the Barrett instead. Same effect on doors, locks, shields... and two legged beasts. ;)

vega
09-01-2007, 00:28
Originally posted by jojo_G19
BTW, does the shotgun slug goes straight like the rifle bullet do or will it just do what the shotgun shots do?? see, shotgun barrel does not have barrel grooves that spins the slug, thus, it is not "that" acurate. correct me if im wrong plss :supergrin: This is what it looks like.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Brenneke.jpg/250px-Brenneke.jpg

Young Once
09-01-2007, 03:21
Whatever SG you decide to buy, the others are right, you will still have to have lots of practice with it. I bought an Armscor M30SAS shotgun last year, and I hav'nt regretted it. Price was ok. around P16K yata. Can't remember anymore. No accessories mounted on it, save for a tactical sling which I bought from twin pines. Allows me to carry the SG in front of me, ready to fire if necessary but also allowing the use of my two hands. And the rest are right, parts are readily available so no problem with maintenance. Also loaded it win 00 buck shot. IMHO, no need to worry about over penetration dito sa Pinas since our walls are made of concrete, unlike in other countries where partitions are made of soft pre-fab materials that bullets can go through.

jojo_G19
09-01-2007, 08:19
Originally posted by Young Once
Whatever SG you decide to buy, the others are right, you will still have to have lots of practice with it. I bought an Armscor M30SAS shotgun last year, and I hav'nt regretted it. Price was ok. around P16K yata. Can't remember anymore. No accessories mounted on it, save for a tactical sling which I bought from twin pines. Allows me to carry the SG in front of me, ready to fire if necessary but also allowing the use of my two hands. And the rest are right, parts are readily available so no problem with maintenance. Also loaded it win 00 buck shot. IMHO, no need to worry about over penetration dito sa Pinas since our walls are made of concrete, unlike in other countries where partitions are made of soft pre-fab materials that bullets can go through.


i think a 5.56 round will go though a 4inch concrete hollow block easily. when that happens, that is a problem. but then again it is better to be shooting BGs while they are hidden behind concrete wall and ur making holes on the wall than waiting for them to came out of hiding and while they are shooting at u :supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

vega
09-01-2007, 11:39
Originally posted by jojo_G19
i think a 5.56 round will go though a 4inch concrete hollow block easily. when that happens, that is a problem. but then again it is better to be shooting BGs while they are hidden behind concrete wall and ur making holes on the wall than waiting for them to came out of hiding and while they are shooting at u :supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:
Yes a 5.56 round could possible penetrate a 4" concrete block but Young Once was talking about 00 buck shot and not .223.

New_comer
09-01-2007, 18:07
Originally posted by vega
Yes a 5.56 round could possible penetrate a 4" concrete block but Young Once was talking about 00 buck shot and not .223.

The 5.56 is a brittle round. That's why it breaks apart upon penetrating human flesh.

Against concrete walls, complete with filler concrete mix and an inch of mortar plaster on each side? I doubt it. It'll make ugly scars, no doubt, but won't shatter them, just like those made by Abu sayyaf/govt troops gunfights to infrastructure at Lamitan. :upeyes:

Unless maisahan ka ng contractor mo, at "ampao" ang pader mo ;)

CatsMeow
09-02-2007, 19:43
Originally posted by jojo_G19
i dont think an m16 bullet would ricochet from hitting a window grill, it would go through it.

i have seen m16 bullets fired though a standard m16 go through 1/4 thick plate.

Back in the 80s in Dumaguete, I heard of an attempted murder. The BG fired a carbine through a window at his intended victim. However the bullet was deflected by a steel window bar only an inch wide, so the would-be victim was unscathed. Imagine, it would have been curtains for him had the bullet gone an inch left or right.

atmarcella
09-03-2007, 20:29
i was at the range last sunday, me mga security guards na tinuturuan at pina pa putok ng shotgun dun, they were shooting at a pepper popper at 10meters, it took 7 shots before the instructor himself hit it....pistol nalang ako, 1 shot lang sapul na yun:supergrin:

Allegra
09-03-2007, 20:55
Originally posted by CatsMeow
Back in the 80s in Dumaguete, I heard of an attempted murder. The BG fired a carbine through a window at his intended victim. However the bullet was deflected by a steel window bar only an inch wide, so the would-be victim was unscathed. Imagine, it would have been curtains for him had the bullet gone an inch left or right.

5.56 can be deflected by thick foliage let alone metal bars
Sure it will go thru a steel plate , pero tamaan nya ng tabingi , it wil just deflect

HEAVY
09-03-2007, 21:05
Originally posted by Allegra
5.56 can be deflected by thick foliage let alone metal bars
Sure it will go thru a steel plate , pero tamaan nya ng tabingi , it wil just deflect

i agree.

i read somewhere that that became a problem in the vietnam war.


another thing, like batangueno stated, a ricocheting 5.56 is a lot more dangerous that a ricocheting 00 Buck pellet owing to a much higher velocity from the rifle round.

mas deadly ang ricochet ng m16 by far.

inside the confines of a house, with concrete walls, firing an m16 might not be such a good idea.

CatsMeow
09-03-2007, 21:18
Originally posted by atmarcella
i was at the range last sunday, me mga security guards na tinuturuan at pina pa putok ng shotgun dun, they were shooting at a pepper popper at 10meters, it took 7 shots before the instructor himself hit it....pistol nalang ako, 1 shot lang sapul na yun:supergrin:

10 meters with a shotgun and they still failed to hit it? :embarassed:

Could it be the following:
1. They were using pistol-grip only shotguns, guaranteed brutal on the firing hand;
2. If their shotguns were full-stocked, these had hard-rubber butt-plates (ooouch);
3. They did not have any hearing protection,thus the boom made for a super flinch, among others;
4. They were all bolomen; or
5. All of the above.:supergrin:

Allegra
09-03-2007, 21:26
Originally posted by CatsMeow
10 meters with a shotgun and they still failed to hit it? :embarassed:

Could it be the following:
1. They were using pistol-grip only shotguns, guaranteed brutal on the firing hand;
2. If their shotguns were full-stocked, these had hard-rubber butt-plates (ooouch);
3. They did not have any hearing protection,thus the boom made for a super flinch, among others;
4. They were all bolomen; or
5. All of the above.:supergrin:

SG's are less painfull sa ears than a pistol , and not as distracting
Still need hearing protection of course , but it's not as painfull on the ears as lets say a 38spl round

isuzu
09-03-2007, 21:42
Originally posted by jojo_G19
i dont think an m16 bullet would ricochet from hitting a window grill, it would go through it.

i have seen m16 bullets fired though a standard m16 go through 1/4 thick plate.

An M16 round hitting the side of a grille is more dangerous. It could ricochet and hit someone.

isuzu
09-03-2007, 21:55
Originally posted by New_comer
Maybe he hasn't seen yet the devastation a shotgun slug can do. It might change his mind. ;)

It can take out a deer for sure, but you have to be pretty accurate with it. Shotguns here who use rifled slugs have at least a front and a rear sight. Others use scopes or optics. I wouldn't recommend it for home defense.

There are shotguns who have rifled barrels and use SABOT slugs. An area outside of Edmonton is strictly a black powder/shotgun hunting area. Rifled shotguns are pretty accurate at 100 meters.

Hornady has new Tactical Loads. All are in 00 buck.

http://www.hornady.com/media/2007catalog/Ammo_Shotgun.pdf

http://www.hornady.com/media/2007catalog/Ammo_TAP_FPD.pdf

CatsMeow
09-03-2007, 23:48
Originally posted by Allegra
SG's are less painfull sa ears than a pistol , and not as distracting
Still need hearing protection of course , but it's not as painfull on the ears as lets say a 38spl round

Hmm, I never fired a shotgun without hearing protection, so that's news. :)

atmarcella
09-04-2007, 00:58
yup they were using a pistol grip only SG and they were shooting from the hip....

anyway happy naman club ko kapag meron ganun sa amin, imagine there were 50guards there, 100 bukols each...5k bukols, ako tumangap ng pera...sabay sigaw "inuman na tayo", sama ng tingin ng pangulo sakin:supergrin:

CatsMeow
09-04-2007, 01:26
Originally posted by atmarcella
yup they were using a pistol grip only SG and they were shooting from the hip....

anyway happy naman club ko kapag meron ganun sa amin, imagine there were 50guards there, 100 bukols each...5k bukols, ako tumangap ng pera...sabay sigaw "inuman na tayo", sama ng tingin ng pangulo sakin:supergrin:

Aha, remind me to get out of the way when they "present arms". Too much Hollywood... Sabi ko na nga ba... BOLOMEN.:supergrin:

Allegra
09-04-2007, 07:56
Originally posted by CatsMeow
Hmm, I never fired a shotgun without hearing protection, so that's news. :)

The guy who taught me told me I didnt need any

antediluvianist
09-08-2007, 00:59
"yup they were using a pistol grip only SG and they were shooting from the hip...."

This is arguably more dangerous for the shooter than the intended shootee. No wonder bank robbers have no problem with bank guards.

I was at ARMSCOR MCS when a bunch of guards came in for their once-a-year "training" session which involved shooting 2 or 3 rounds each from a shotgun. Once a year. Well, the guard companies have to make a profit so that's all the training they can pay for. Add to that a pistol grip shotgun fired from the hip = if I were a client in the bank I'd be more afraid of the guard.

userfriendly
09-08-2007, 19:51
Q: Is it possible to get a permit to carry a SG in the car?

HEAVY
09-08-2007, 20:06
Originally posted by userfriendly
Q: Is it possible to get a permit to carry a SG in the car?

i've seen a permit to carry for an m4, so i guess it's possible to get one for a shottie.

hmm...a 14incher stoked full of 00 buck and a sidesaddle of slugs would be nice for those out of town trips. :)

userfriendly
09-08-2007, 20:18
a 14incher stoked full of 00 buck and a sidesaddle of slugs would be nice for those out of town trips.

Exactly what I was thinking.
Wonder what its called and how much it would cost.