View Full Version : Restrictions too restrictive?
choochboost
08-27-2007, 15:00
Based on this post...
Originally posted by Warp
It SUCKS (for us), but the may issue states have much better off limits restrictions than many of the shall isssue states.
GA is shall issue but I'd give my right nut to have Kali's or New York's list of places off limits instead of GAs.
I'd rather live in a free issuance county of a may issue state than GA...because I would be able to get a permit and IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE USEFULL!
...I want to know, from those who carry every day, how often do you have to disarm because of these restrictions, and/or how frequently do you have to find another place to do business, etc?
PhoneCop
08-27-2007, 15:20
Assume you mean this for GA GTers only?
Do you want testimonies from elsewhere?
choochboost
08-27-2007, 15:37
I am asking anyone from any state. I want to get an idea of how much these restrictions affect the CCW community as a whole.
As Warp suggested, it may be better to live in a may-issue state with few restrictions than a shall-issue state where there are a lot of restrictions.
As a CCW holder in a may-issue state with few restrictions, I wanted to get an idea of how bad it is.
I don't have to disarm. I just don't go to the places off-limits....
Wait....no I work at a school. The laws in my state won't even allow me to leave it in my car. Therefore I have a 20 mile commute one way with no firearm.
If I'm not working I'm armed and I just don't go places off limits.
kensteele
08-27-2007, 17:24
overrated.
maybe once a month, tops.
I have to disarm every day at work....sucks....
at least my truck is right out the front door
FLGlock30
08-27-2007, 17:51
I too avoid place that are "off-limits"
Florida does not have some of the crazy places that are off limits like Ga ie: reststops considered a government building. Those are some of the most dangerous places.
I just obey the rules, only place I had to disarm was work and even though work policy says no firearms on comapny property, they were not going to search my car.
rvrctyrngr
08-27-2007, 18:45
Not nearly as often as I used to. Don't have much to do with State/Fed Gov't any more (THANK GOODNESS!!!!)
Couple times a week, when I stop for beers after work with friends or the wife (wouldn't have to at all, but I hate sitting in the restauraunt part if I'm not there to eat...tis boring and too many kidz.).
i have to disarm a lot. anytime i go to a restaurant that serves alcohol to be consumed on the premises i have to disarm. that is basically any "sit down" restaraunt. chipotle, TGIFridays, Ruby Tuesdays. all of that trash. any building that the gov't leases or has any part in. schools of any sort.
heck, i even have to disarm in my church. my church has a lame policy that doesnt allow firearms inside. (the law states that it is illegal to carry inside a house of worship unless otherwise given permission by the church, like a head pastor) but im working on it now. im in talks with a pastor of the church. apparently, they decided on the policy when it first came out because they thought no one cared and just decided to not have any firearms. im not sure i follow the logic there... but whatever. im going to try to get a couple of people i know that own/shoot firearms and are interested in getting their ccw and see if we can persuade them to change the policy.
any place that places the no gun sign is off limits too. its enforcible in ohio. but if they put a sign up, i dont give them any business and they get added to OFCC's do not patronize database.
PhoneCop
08-27-2007, 19:39
TX: A shall issue state
I rarely have to disarm.
-once in 5 years have I stumbled into/onto a 51% when packing
-I am disarmed at work, but that's my job, not the state and on the job is when I visit police or the courthouse
-I only rarely visit my kid's school
-My church does NOT have a 30.06 sign
-I have observed next to no 30.06 signs
I'm tallying this Shall-Issue state as not very restrictive, rather accomodating.
TheKnight
08-27-2007, 19:52
I too just do not go where CCW is not welcomed. When I am working at the Hospital, I have no choice but to disarm, I don't like, In fact I think it is stupid, and hazardous. They don't even allow the Security Guards to carry. It would be one thing if the hospital was smack dab in pleasantville, and no crime is ever committed. Instead it is smack dab in the city, we have numerous gang members in there. We have had the security personell beaten by gang members, We even had a kid who was shot(not killed), and the rival gang sent members in to find him to finish the job, and they threatened to take out anyone who was caught trying to help him. So this kid was given a false identity, and transferred out ASAP.
So in affect the Hospital has created a Safer for Criminal Zone.
In Colorado, you can CCW with a permit in many places, so for that I feel lucky.
There are not many places that post signs against it, I am not sure they are Pro CCW, or they just never gave it much thought.
The business that Ban guns, I started becoming active by reporting them to RMGO.
Glock20-10
08-27-2007, 20:05
Every time I come back from IN. to my ****hole state. Yes, I make a lot of stops at the state line. But I'm working on moving to that state next door, where they appreciate law abiding, gun totin' citizens!
CowboyKen
08-27-2007, 20:50
Nevada, very few restrictions:
Biuldings at Airport,
Schools and day care facilities (including colleges),
Govt biuldings if posted or have metal detectors.
Thats it.
Restaurants, Bars, Casinos, private businesses of any kind are OK, posted or not does not matter.
Ken
captainstormy
08-27-2007, 20:53
Originally posted by kensteele
overrated.
maybe once a month, tops.
Depends on the your state, in Ohio people are unarmed more often then armed because of the crazy laws.
For example, here in Ohio:
You can't have your firearm on in any school, and unless it is a university you can't even have it in your car. This also includes school functions at none school locations and buses.
You can't have your firearm on in any day cares.
You can't have your firearm on in any building where they have a class D liquor permit. Basically any room where alcohol is sold for on site consumption.
You can't carry in any church unless the pastors give you permission.
You also can't carry anywhere where they place up a sign saying so, unlike other states if your caught CCing in a place that is posted as a CPZ it is quite a serious charge, the first time is the highest class misdemeanor with a year suspension of your CHL. The second is a felony. Also unlike other states, it is more common here for a place to be posted then to not be posted.
Aside from those there are the usual government owned facilities that you can't carry in, which includes rest areas on the interstate and the post office (which isn't even part of the government anymore).
fairfax1
08-27-2007, 21:49
Originally posted by captainstormy
Depends on the your state, in Ohio people are unarmed more often then armed because of the crazy laws.
Also unlike other states, it is more common here for a place to be posted then to not be posted.
I will +1 that statement about places being posted. I went to visit family there and it seemed like every place I went was posted (especially in the industrial and factories area, huge 2x2 no gun signs on every fence). I couldn't wait to get back to VA where I have never seen a no guns sign.
devldogs55
08-27-2007, 21:57
Idaho: Shall issue state
Off Limits:
1. Courthouse
2. Juvenile detention center or jail
3. Public or Private K-12 school
(university campuses are good to go)
I don't go to any of those places.. I do however attend the U of I. Haven't disarmed since I got my ccw.
______________________________________________________
I go to Washington State a LOT. They aren't too bad either. They have one clause that is fairly confusing.. regarding the "outdoor music festival". I have never been to any event that met all the criteria to have to disarm. Other than that..
RCW 9.41.280:
1. Public or private school
It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools" (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: ... (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student.
(I haven't found out 100% about university campuses or not)
2. Jail, mental health facility, courthouse ect...
HERE COMES THE CONFUSING ONE
3. RCW 70.108.150
"It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his
possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival." From RCW 70.108.020: 'For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings: (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.' (emphasis in original)
4. Any place that the STATE LIQUOR BOARD declares off limits to persons under the age of 21. .... It can't just be a company policy.. it has to be off limits to under 21 by the SLB.
Not bad IMO. I'll pass on adopting Cali or NY laws :thumbsup:
EAJuggalo
08-27-2007, 22:29
I don't think I've been anywhere in MN where I was legally required to disarm in over two years. I've been into posted businesses but the only one I actually disarm at is at Twins/Vikings games. The only places made off limits by state law are jails, secured areas of the airport, schools(day care through 12). In the vast majority of counties and at the State Capitol Complex you may carry as long as you have informed the Sheriff of the county for courthouses or the Commissioner of Public Safety for the Capitol. However judges in Hennepin and Ramsey Counties have issued orders prohibiting permit holders from carrying in those courthouses.
Originally posted by kensteele
overrated.
maybe once a month, tops.
Ken, I think this stipulation rules you out. ;)
Originally posted by choochboost
from those who carry every day,
I have to disarm or go somewhere else (or option C...) FAR too often.
Multiple times a week.
There are also multiple times a week where I ask myself "am I breaking the law?" and I cannot determine the answer with much certainty. I don't think a lawyer could, either, and I sure as heck wouldn't trust a LEO to get it right.
When I lived in Indiana I had to disarm, oh, 2-3 times a year.
Off limits in GA:
All publicly owned/operated buildings, right down to rest area buildings.
All schools/colleges and their functions. And the parking lot.
Churches/church functions. And the parking lot.
Any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on premise, and the parking lot. This rules out almost every single good restaraunt.
All sporting events. And parking lots.
All public transportation, and parking lots. (felony)
Reasonable distance from bus stops (felony). When I am driving down the road and stop RIGHT next to a bus stop, I ask myself, am I committing a felony? When I walk down the sidewalk I have to cross the street to stay FAR away from them, or its a felony.
Public gatherings. Court rulings say this even includes a parking lot where teenagers are "hanging out". Oh yeah, and the public gathering's parking lot. Oh yeah, there is also a case where it was argued (and a charge ensued) that a person carrying legally who acted in self defense was carrying at a public gathering because, after the incident while waiting for police, a crowd gathered. Crowd=public gathering.
Is a movie theater a public gathering?
Then there is the fact that it is also illegal to transport the weapon to one of these places. Based on a court case involving alcohol and a church it is possible that if you were to, say, go out to dinner at a restaraunt (serves alcohol) and park next door (place that is legal), place your gun in the console/under the seat/etc, and then walk over to the restaraunt, it would still be illega.
State parks.
State historic sites.
And more, I am sure, but that gives you the gist of it.
Oh yeah, those aren't places off limits for a gun, but for "deadly weapons". Deadly weapons includes a "knife designed for the purpose of offense or defense". Court rulings have determined that hobby knives (think X-acto or wathever it is) fit that category. SO the simple 3" blade folders I carry all the time are possibly illegal as well.
kensteele
08-27-2007, 23:40
lol, i carry everyday. just not 24 hours of that day. to the store for 5 minutes w/o my weapon, cripes! :)
do you know how tough it is to carry while on a motorcycle, sometimes you just want to jump on and go riding without suiting up, helmet, boots, weapon.... ;)
Originally posted by kensteele
lol, i carry everyday. just not 24 hours of that day. to the store for 5 minutes w/o my weapon, cripes! :)
do you know how tough it is to carry while on a motorcycle, sometimes you just want to jump on and go riding without suiting up, helmet, boots, weapon.... ;)
Not sure, I never rode a motorcycle without the proper safety equipment. ;)
And if I were to, I wouldn't change anything. Just get on the bike and ride. My weapon would already be on (assuming, of course, I was dressed!), and open carry is legal in GA (shirt flying up) so it wouldn't matter. :)
You do carry ever day? IIRC in past threads you stated that some days you just don't carry. Are you getting better in that regard?
kensteele
08-28-2007, 07:13
Originally posted by Warp
IIRC in past threads you stated that some days you just don't carry. Are you getting better in that regard?
carrying to my workplace is off-limits. so if i just go to work that day and nowhere else, "i didn't carry that day." lol
PhoneCop
08-28-2007, 07:40
KenSteele,
KS used to be a "home-rule" state where though open carry wasn't prohibitted by state law, a county could pass a resolution and a city pass an oridinance making it illegal to openly carry. It was hazardous because you could be bopping along and cross the county line from Johnson to Douglas and get 'cuffed. Or, cross from OP into Olathe and see the same (just examples)
I have this (admittedly unreliable) memory that KS excluded handgun laws from home-run with the passage of the concealed carry laws, did it? IF not, did you check out all the city's ordinances where you'd be riding? Or County's resolutions?
Steve
I carry daily in a shall issue state, and I don't recall the last time I had to disarm.
Other than the rare occasion that I have to go in my son's school I am pretty much armed all the time.
kensteele
08-28-2007, 09:25
Originally posted by PhoneCop
KenSteele,
KS used to be a "home-rule" state where though open carry wasn't prohibitted by state law, a county could pass a resolution and a city pass an oridinance making it illegal to openly carry. It was hazardous because you could be bopping along and cross the county line from Johnson to Douglas and get 'cuffed. Or, cross from OP into Olathe and see the same (just examples)
I have this (admittedly unreliable) memory that KS excluded handgun laws from home-run with the passage of the concealed carry laws, did it? IF not, did you check out all the city's ordinances where you'd be riding? Or County's resolutions?
Steve
yes, with ccw, i can carry in every city and county in the state, no local jurisdication can interfere. i believe NE is one of those states where locals can make their own rules regarding ccw.
I live in Georgia and cannot carry in rest stops, places that serve alcohol etc. However, how many times has your car been searched while making a rest stop or in the parking lot of Applebee's? I will take my chances leaving my gun hidden in the car at those places, especially while traveling. I don't visit churches and since my kids are grown I don't visit schools except when voting. If i'm caught by some fluke, I will take my punishment knowing full well I have broken the law and will lose my carry permit. Just my two cents.
Originally posted by Jimmylh
I will take my chances leaving my gun hidden in my car at those places, especially while traveling.
It is every bit as illegal in the parking lot as it is in the restaraunt...but when you hide it in the car you have given up a great deal of you ability to defend yourself, are still committing the crime AND the gun is at higher risk of being stolen.
If it gets stolen from the parking lot, do you report it to the police?
Do you have a safe?
www.center-of-mass.com
Stick it in the safe just before you enter the parking lot and you should be legal.
BTW: Regarding simply breaking the law and assuming nobody will find out unless you have to defend your life....I have done that a time or two.....and am applying for jobs that do a thourough background investigation and polygraph with questions such as "have you committed any undetected crimes" and I suck at lying.
You never know what can come back to be a pain in the butt.
Originally posted by Warp
It is every bit as illegal in the parking lot as it is in the restaraunt...but when you hide it in the car you have given up a great deal of you ability to defend yourself, are still committing the crime AND the gun is at higher risk of being stolen.
If it gets stolen from the parking lot, do you report it to the police?
Do you have a safe?
www.center-of-mass.com
Stick it in the safe just before you enter the parking lot and you should be legal.
BTW: Regarding simply breaking the law and assuming nobody will find out unless you have to defend your life....I have done that a time or two.....and am applying for jobs that do a thourough background investigation and polygraph with questions such as "have you committed any undetected crimes" and I suck at lying.
You never know what can come back to be a pain in the butt.
I know what you are saying, and no, I don't have a safe. I will look into getting one maybe. I'm just saying that sometimes following the letter of the law is not always easy to do. That's no excuse in eyes of the law, but that's just the way I feel. Where I work, I cannot carry or am allowed to have in the car while parked. I'm not going to say where I work but they do have random vehicle searches with dogs. Many years ago I forgot to take out my gun after I came back from hunting the night before. I about messed my pants when I discovered it on the way home after work. I can get fired and put in jail if caught at my work. I'm retiring in a few months and will be glad to be able to leave it in the glove box.
captainstormy
08-28-2007, 10:55
At least in Ohio it is legal to have your gun in the car unless you are going to a K-12 school.
It is seriously impossible in Ohio to avoid being disarmed several times a day unless you either ignore the law or just don't go anywhere.
Even my rental office for my apartment complex is a posted CPZ. I'm looking at moving soon, for that and different reasons, but surprise surprise ( <-- sarcasm) there are CPZ signs on all of their rental offices.
Ohio is just strange, It is one of the old republican strongholds yet the majority of the people and lawmakers are anti's.
About the only places here you can carry are grocery stores, for some reason they decide not to post. Most private buildings are posted with two things automatically in Ohio as soon as they open for business. No smoking and No gun signs. Where as back home in Kentucky I've never ever once seen a no gun sign.
PhoneCop
08-28-2007, 11:14
Originally posted by kensteele
yes, with ccw, i can carry in every city and county in the state, no local jurisdication can interfere. i believe NE is one of those states where locals can make their own rules regarding ccw.
Sorry, I'll adjust the question. Absent CCW, open carry was legal unless a city or county passed "law" against it, its that still true?
Mingus Jim
08-28-2007, 11:15
I have to disarm when I attend my amateur radio club meetings as we meet in a school. So, I have to unload my G19 before I enter the school grounds. I can legally have the unloaded pistol in my vehicle there.
When we go to a restaurant that serves alcohol by the drink, I have do disarm. When we take friends to the Palace Saloon on Whiskey Row in downtown Prescott, I have to disarm, eat, then go to my car and rearm before showing them around town.
Some public entities have no gun signs, but with the new law passed that they must offer storage. The problem is, some don't. The local Motor Vehicle Department has a no firearms sign, but no provision for storing weapons. Some public entities have just ignored the law that passed last year.
For private enterprises, Costco has a no gun sign, but I haven't noticed one in any other business that I've been in.
I did enjoy being able to carry into a steak house in Killeen, TX, a couple of years ago. However, with knives with blades over 5 1/2" long being illegal in TX and there being no open carry, I can't complain too much about the laws here in AZ. Of course, they could always be a little better.:) :)
wow warp... i thought Ohio sucked... i guess i can be happy knowing there are worse places to live (GA, IL). as captain stormy said, its pretty strange that ohio is so unfriendly towards guns, yet continues to be a republican stronghold (up until last november i guess). we have a great movement with the OFCC group and have made some good head way, but we still have a long way to go.
the ohio church law boggles my mind...
I can't carry at work, because I run an establishment that serves alcohol (16-23-465). I have to disarm every time I go to work, so I leave it in my truck, close to the building, and as accessible as can be while not violating the law.
I can't carry in the Sheriff's Office, so I leave it in the truck, but I don't stop by there so often that it's a real problem.
I can, and do, carry everywhere else, except whee prohibited by law, but I rarely go any of those places.
kensteele
08-28-2007, 21:20
Originally posted by PhoneCop
Sorry, I'll adjust the question. Absent CCW, open carry was legal unless a city or county passed "law" against it, its that still true?
You know honestly i don't know. i would never even consider open carry for any reason so i've never looked into it. in addition, i have never seen anyone oc here. but i do think it is legal unless a city or county said no.
im interested in hearing other places where silly laws prohibit carrying a firearm. anyone else have any good ones?
I live in a country where gun ownership is tightly regulated, but carry almost everywhere. "Gun-free zones" here are rare enough to avoid completely.
I grew up in a state that was almost the best of both.
In Indiana licenses were very cheap and easy to get (which a LOT of people did) and I only went 2-3 off limits places in 2 years of carrying...without trying to at all to avoid them.
Down here it just plain sucks.
captainstormy
08-30-2007, 07:59
Originally posted by Lior
I live in a country where gun ownership is tightly regulated, but carry almost everywhere. "Gun-free zones" here are rare enough to avoid completely.
I would imagine that most people in Israel can see the need for guns when you have a whole country of people actively trying to kill you.
The problem with a lot of people in the US is that they feel there is no need for guns. After all the police are there to protect you with just a phone call and nobody would ever attack the US mainland and our government is so perfect that we would never have to think about rising up in revolt.
Originally posted by captainstormy
I would imagine that most people in Israel can see the need for guns when you have a whole country of people actively trying to kill you.
The problem with a lot of people in the US is that they feel there is no need for guns. After all the police are there to protect you with just a phone call and nobody would ever attack the US mainland and our government is so perfect that we would never have to think about rising up in revolt.
Most Americans still wouldn't see the need for guns.
Over 10,000 murders a year and hundreds of thousands of violent crimes, but they still don't see a need to be able to defend themselves.
captainstormy
08-30-2007, 09:39
I know, I'll never understand how some people think. Like my GF, I love her to death but when it comes to protecting herself shes dumb as a rock and wont listen at all.
im not sure that the antis think there is no use for guns, they just think if guns arent available to law abiding citizens the bgs wont have them either. theyre just dumb.
Originally posted by Dinho
im not sure that the antis think there is no use for guns, they just think if guns arent available to law abiding citizens the bgs wont have them either. theyre just dumb.
Depends which antis you are talking about.
The "good" kind think that.
The "bad" kind use the "disarming BGs" and "reduced crime" arguments (which we know to be invalid anyway) as a disguise, what they really want is for the citizens to become subjects.
there is no such thing as a good anti.
Originally posted by Dinho
there is no such thing as a good anti.
It's all relative.
That's why I said "good".
If it makes you feel better, we'll call them "less bad", or bad and not evil.
The "good" ones can more easily be converted and forced to face reality. The "bad" ones are elitists, and are often in a position of power/authority where they can be armed...or have armed guards...while telling everybody else they don't need guns. They are by far and away the most dangerous.
Glockanatorrrrr
09-03-2007, 19:30
Originally posted by FLGlock30
I too avoid place that are "off-limits"
Florida does not have some of the crazy places that are off limits like Ga ie: reststops considered a government building. Those are some of the most dangerous places.
I just obey the rules, only place I had to disarm was work and even though work policy says no firearms on comapny property, they were not going to search my car.
Here in Fl we have it made for CCW. Unless you're going to school or work at a bar. Easy solution......Move to Fl! Mickeym Goofey and Donald Duck all carry!.......The hearts of your kids.
Originally posted by Warp
It's all relative.
That's why I said "good".
If it makes you feel better, we'll call them "less bad", or bad and not evil.
The "good" ones can more easily be converted and forced to face reality. The "bad" ones are elitists, and are often in a position of power/authority where they can be armed...or have armed guards...while telling everybody else they don't need guns. They are by far and away the most dangerous.
haha changeable ones are less evil.
Originally posted by Glockanatorrrrr
Here in Fl we have it made for CCW. Unless you're going to school or work at a bar. Easy solution......Move to Fl! Mickeym Goofey and Donald Duck all carry!.......The hearts of your kids.
Yes, you kind of do have it made for CCW.
Still more places off limits than a lot of other states, and NO OPEN CARRY!
Another great thing about Indiana: Long gun carry is unregulated. You can carry your shotgun or rifle openly or concealed on or about your person or in your vehicle with no license or permit.
One thing going against IN is that open carry is only legal with a license, and vehicle/car carry also requires a license....so you cannot carry a loaded handgun outside of your property without a license. Some states have the car/open carry going for them.
Razoreye
09-03-2007, 19:36
Originally posted by kensteele
lol, i carry everyday. just not 24 hours of that day. to the store for 5 minutes w/o my weapon, cripes! :)
do you know how tough it is to carry while on a motorcycle, sometimes you just want to jump on and go riding without suiting up, helmet, boots, weapon.... ;) Quite easy. I'm sure plenty of people have seen my 1911 riding with me! :supergrin:
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