G26 for wilderness protection?

[GTnBarrel]

My daily carry is G26 with Gold Dot 124 Grain. I live in CO and have recently started dirt motorcycling into the back country.
My question is only survival protection: If I ran into a bear that was going to harm me, besides carrying a bazooka, is there any load I can put into my G26 9mm that would have any bear "get off of me and eat someone else" power?
or do I need to purchase a G39 45 GAP or G33 357 if this is my concern.
Thanks for the education

[Jack23]

Large animals such as bears have extreemely thick hides and dense thick bones. You would pretty much have to be able to re-define the term "well placed round" to be assured of securing your safety with any 9mm against such an animal.

.41mag, .44mag, .454casul are roundly accepted revolver calibers for such use and for auto loaders the 10mm and .45super are generally accepted as adequate. Bullet type and weight will be important but as far as caliber choices I believe the above is a fairly accurate list of acceptable choices.

[3rdpig]

If I had to defend my life against a black bear with a 9mm I'd probably attempt to scare it off before I'd piss it off by shooting it. Assuming I was going to shoot it I'd want the heaviest bullet I could get and one that would hold together and hope I could get enough penetration. Question is, hollow points or FMJ? Hard to say, you need penetration for animals like bear and many modern hollow points designed to stop humans expand too fast and don't give the penetration needed for big 4 legged animals.

Not sure I think .357 Sig is much better, you're still stuck using a standard 9mm bullet of some kind although you will get better penetration. .45 Gap isn't going to have the penetration you need either. You need a big, heavy, solid bullet and enough velocity to penetrate deeply enough to reach a vital organ.

G20 or G29 with the DT 200 or 230 grain WFNGC rounds would be your best choice in a Glock for black bear. While I'd feel reasonably comfortable with the right 10mm for bear protection, I'd still rather have my .44 magnum with the old Kieth 300 grain hard cast load.

[Sertory_glock]

Since you're on a motorcycle, have you considered a scabbard and a lever action for bear protection?

[GTnBarrel]

Just to clarify. The scenario I envision is breaking down late in the day and too far to walk out - so having to spend the night. The tight and rocky riding I do doesn't lend itself to carrying a rifle and my wallet thickness doesn't buy me too much so I have to be correct on the next purchase. The reason I am thinking Glock is because I am now very familiar with the G26- in the light and the dark.
Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciate all of them.

[Mark 19]

Originally posted by GTnBarrel
Just to clarify. The scenario I envision is breaking down late in the day and too far to walk out - so having to spend the night. The tight and rocky riding I do doesn't lend itself to carrying a rifle and my wallet thickness doesn't buy me too much so I have to be correct on the next purchase. The reason I am thinking Glock is because I am now very familiar with the G26- in the light and the dark.
Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciate all of them. You've got a small concealable gun, but not ridiculously small. Why not get a big revolver, but not ridiculously big, to go with it? A .44Mag Ruger Redhawk or SuperRedhawk revolver with the 5.5" or 7" barrel is a good choice. Check www.gunbroker.com for options. Ruger makes the "Glocks" of .44Mag revolvers: not the prettiest maybe, but the toughest.

That, or trade your G26 in on a G29 and load with Doubletap hunting loads or Corbon hunting loads. Good luck and report back on what you decided and what you learned in the first month or so of use.

Correction: the Glock 6" barrel does not fit properly in the G29. I just tried it.

[GTnBarrel]

Originally posted by Mark 19
You've got a small concealable gun, but not ridiculously small. Why not get a big revolver, but not ridiculously big, to go with it? A .44Mag Ruger Redhawk or SuperRedhawk revolver with the 5.5" or 7" barrel is a good choice. Check www.gunbroker.com for options. Ruger makes the "Glocks" of .44Mag revolvers: not the prettiest maybe, but the toughest.

That, or trade your G26 in on a G29. Then, slide the Glock 6-inch 10mm barrel in the G29 for your treks and load with Doubletap hunting loads or Corbon hunting loads. Good luck and report back on what you decided and what you learned in the first month or so of use.

Going to take me a while to interpret and investigate the above.Thanks for takin the time. I appreciate the education.

[sandpiper]

G-26 > sharp stick

[harleyfx69]

only 9mm i would feel comfortable with against a bear would be to the tune of an uzi , or a mp5 clone ..

After you hit him 30 times you throw it at him and run like a mofo ..

[passive101]

33 rd 9mm magazine with FMJ :banana:

[Glolt20-91]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/DesertEagleSWM629-G20-.jpg

The top one cost less than the bottom one with barrel conversion. The top one gives energy levels at 100yds + that equals the bottom one at muzzle.

If you prefer pistols, the one in the middle has a stellar reputation in .44mag and .50cal. :supergrin:

Living in a very rural area, rather than re-invent the wheel, I do as the locals do; carry .44mag hardcast while in bear and mountain lion country. Put either one of these animals in a killing frenzy (which is what an attack is) and the 9mm is useless.

When you are in the wilderness by yourself, you need to know what will work rather than opinions of what might work. The #1 choice is a Marlin .45-70 in a dirt bike scabbard; and that's even cheaper than a G20 with barrel conversion. :thumbsup:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Back%20country/BearwarningTurkeyCreek2-06-2007024.jpg

There's a certain finality of choice once past these signs and you're spending the night in the dark and cold.:wavey:

Bob :cowboy:

[Glock_Holiday]

As much as I like the 9mm and like the Glock 26. If I was going to knowingly be in bear country I would feel much more comfortable with a revolver in .41mag / .44mag / 500 S&W. A 12ga shotgun loaded with slugs is not out of the question, although not real practical in all situations. I.e riding dirt bikes....

Good luck,
GH

[English]

Yes but a G20 is a lot lighter and it caries two and a half times as many rounds and it has shorter split times. Though the 6" barrel is nice it is not essential. falling off a dirt bike and landing on a Glock would be a lot less damaging than landing on a big revolver.

Having said all that, bears, like people, usually take time to die after being shot. In that time the bear is likely to kill you. The best pepper spray works immediately and it works as well on a big bear as it does on a little one. Bears hit with good pepper spray don't attack humans again.

English

[GTnBarrel]

Does pepper spray work on Mountain Lions also?
( I realize that is NOT a Glocking question)

[360]

Carry an extra mag. Blow through the first mag quickly. If that doesn't slow him down or stop him, get on your bad motor scooter and ride... :banana:

[rick_reno]

I know a couple of people here that carry G20's for black bear protection. I do a lot of work in the woods, on the edge of one of our govt's grizzly bear protection zones - I have a big chunk of land that borders the protection zone. I used to carry a Ruger 5.5 inch 44 mag. A couple of years ago Ruger did a good thing - they came out with the Alaskan in .454. I've shot .454's since I got my first Freedom Arms gun in 1989 and really like the round (my FA guns are too long for carry and working in the woods). I got one, it's a great little gun. Very accurate and when it's in a pancake holster from Rob Leahy (Simply Rugged in Alaska) I don't even know it's on my hip when chainsawing or running my skidsteer. I handload it using 300 gr. bullets from LaserCast, they're very hard and offer excellent penetration.

[Mark 19]

Originally posted by Glolt20-91
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/DesertEagleSWM629-G20-.jpg So, top one looks like a Ruger Redhawk (not Super Redhawk) in .44Mag with Pachmyr grips. That's a 5.5" barrel?

The middle one is a Magnum Research Desert Eagle in .44Mag.

The lower one is a G20 with a 6" Glock Brand barrel.

FYI, I find the revolvers are easiest to carry open in the woods (I live in an open carry legal state). You just put on one of those cowboy looking belts with cartridge loops and a holster with a flap, and add a cowboy style hat. People react to the cowboy rig in a completely different way than to a black gun stuffed in a swat-team holster with leg strap.

[john_glock_mi]

The Rugers and Magnum Research are good choices but hard to carry on the body while dirt biking, depending how aggressive you ride. If your going to carry something that large a pack strapped to your bike would be my choice.

If carrying a G26 against any type of bear, I would make sure to fire the entire magazine. Double tap shots are not going to do it.

[MOHAA Player]

Semi auto-G20
Revolver-4" 44 mag

[GlockRik]

If I was concerned with bears, 10mm would be the minimum I would consider. The noise from the G26 would probably be more effective than the bullets. It won't help you much if the bear dies 3 days later on a full stomach.:)

[johnydoe]

ammoman sells 124gr +P+ FMJs.

[outlaw1niner]

If you are truly concerned with defense from bears, get yourself some "bear spray". This is just pepper spray in a higher concentration than the normal stuff for use against people, and it usually comes in larger cannisters.
Trust me it works. I've never run into a grizzly, or even seen one in the wild, but I've run into plenty of black bears. Most black bears will run away when they see people, but I've run into a few that were acting aggressively. The aggressive bears got a blast of "bear spray" and they immediately ran away. These sprays have been shown to be 90-96% effective at stopping aggressive bears, both grizzlies and black bears. It works great on feral dogs too.

If the spray fails, empty your 9mm into his head, aiming at the nose and eyes, repeat as needed, if you have time. If that fails, and if you can.......RUN!!

Just my two cents.

[Haldor]

+1 on the bear spray.

It has about the same practical range as a G26 also. I imagine this stuff would probably work pretty well on two legged critters as well.

http://www.udap.com/images/marksprays.jpg


Here is what U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has to say on the subject:

http://www.udap.com/bearnews.pdf

I happen to think the G26 is a self defense weapon for city use (I own one for the exact purpose), but I would rather have bear spray if traveling in bear country.

[Darkangel1846]

Just a word of warning...concerning bears. Carry bear spray, and the biggest magnum you can. Chances of you getting attacked by a bear is small, but GD! you had better have something in your hand that will stop it darn quick. You will only have a few seconds to react so you had better have a double action magnum with some hot hardened penitrators loaded up. Just a word of warning.

[MattHappyTrails]

More importantly than "what gun" is to become fully aware on how to act in black bear country. ( Black bears are much different than the grizz.) If I counted all the nights I spent in the back country of Colorado, and other locations,camping in a tent, they would total over four years. I've seen dozen of bears and many other things. I've come to the conclusion there is more danger from my fellow man than any animal.

The best thing you can do is fully learn proper safety in bear country. Never a real problem. Google "bear aware" for a good start. Check NPS and Forest Service web sites for info. If you follow these safety guidelines you are most likely never to have a difficulty.

Enjoy the outdoors as much as I have!!
:) :) :) :)

[Warp]

I've gone hiking in Colorado, in bear country, as recently as this summer. Also ID and WY.

I carried my G26 much of the time. I figured if attacked by a bear (or moose, etc) it was a lot better than no weapon. Great for 2 legged predators as well.

The more at risk area I had bear spray on my belt as well.

Definately carry the bear spray.

[Agent6-3/8]

Bear spray is definitely is a good idea. I would also carry a bigbore along the line of a .44mag loaded with the heaviest hard cast loads you can get. A Glock 10mm might do, but the 10mm can't approach the performance of some .44mag loads on the market. Buffalo Bore has a load that throws a 340gr bullet at 1400fps.


I think we can all agree that a bear attack is very rare. However, I'm a firm believer in planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

[English]

Originally posted by GTnBarrel
Does pepper spray work on Mountain Lions also?
( I realize that is NOT a Glocking question)

It works just as well. The problem is seeing the Mountain Lion before it jumps you but even then, if you can get to the spray, it will stop it chewing you faster than anything else. Try to holster it so that you can get to it with either hand.

English

[JimmyMN]

If you're going to rely on a G-26 for bear protection, you better be riding a very fast bike....:rofl:

[Glolt20-91]

Originally posted by English
Yes but a G20 is a lot lighter and it caries two and a half times as many rounds and it has shorter split times. Though the 6" barrel is nice it is not essential. falling off a dirt bike and landing on a Glock would be a lot less damaging than landing on a big revolver.

Having said all that, bears, like people, usually take time to die after being shot. In that time the bear is likely to kill you. The best pepper spray works immediately and it works as well on a big bear as it does on a little one. Bears hit with good pepper spray don't attack humans again.

English

Nice opinions English, doesn't quite work that way in the real world. Reinventing the wheel with opinions on the G20 vs. 44mag doesn't change the dynamics of a killing frenzy. The dynamics of a bear attack are totally different than a casual meeting on the trail.

One major misconception people have is that they will see the bear on the trail, get out their trusty bear spray and everything will be okay. A full fledged bear attack can also have a blackie charging through thick brush at 45ft/sec (a grizz can sprint to over 60ft/sec when chasing down elk, a mountain will come over the top of brush) and that's the speed the victim will be hit with. If you can shoot off 16 rounds in a second or two; then more power to you. :)

Falling on a pistol vs a revolver is irrelevant for the purpose of this thread.

A major advantage of a revolver vs. pistol that is relevant to this thread is a revolver can be pushed into the ribs (or whatever) and continue to fire while a pistol can't. The six inch barrel on the Glock may or may not overcome this pistol shortcoming.

I load upper end for both the .44mag and 10mm; the full lug under the 6.5" barrel of the M629 gives better balance than the G20, the Smith N-frame ergonomics are superior to that of the G20 with my hand size and my rate of fire with the M629 is the same as the G20.

I've tested both calibers (and others) shooting through thick brush and the .44mag gives me the most confidence of scoring a direct hit on target.

Bear spray may or may not be a viable alternative; mountain trails have this nasty habit of strong winds that can change direction in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is carry what locals carry because it works.

This M29 Mountain is a very comfortable CCW carry in a pancake FBI tilt holster. :)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/M29Mountain054.jpg

Bob :cowboy:

[GTnBarrel]

Great info - thanks all.
The education and bear spray seem to make the most sense
I never ride alone in the dirt and being prepared is my motto.
I wonder how a can of bear spray fits in a tactical holster :-)
Thanks again all.

[meshmdz]

Here is my 2 cents.


First things first, the man who said "trade your G26" or whatever is dead wrong. DO NOT trade your G26. YOU WILL regret it and end up BUYING ANOTHER one. Guaranteed.

Now, as for bear rounds... if i were having to do battle with a bear, I am carrying a .44 mag or a .357 magnum at the bare minimum.

THAT being said, anyone who says a 9mm with their ballastics will just "piss off" a bear is misinformed. There is this misconstrued fact that a bear's hide is ALL AROUND SO THICK that it cant be penetrated by a high speed 9mm FMJ. While certain areas on a bear's hide are very thick, a head shot with a 9mm will kill a bear as dead as a door nail. My father was hunting bear here in the mountains of east tennessee a few years ago and shot a black bear with a Remington model 700 30.06 bolt action rifle. The bear dropped after running a few yards. The bear was still alive and struggling when my father approached the bear. Dad shot it in the side of the head with a Glock 19 from 13-15 feet away with a 115 grain FMJ. The bear never moved or lived to breath another second. While the bear was dying from the 30.06 round, the 9mm round crashing into the skull was what killed the bear instantly.

I wouldnt pack a 9mm for "bear protection" initially, but if it all you have, by all means carry it. Another notable point is this. With the G19, you have at bare minimum, 16 rounds of 9mm ammo of your choice. In a worst case scenario, shooting a bear 16 times ANYWHERE on his body WILL deter the animal and stop him from coming in most ALL situations. Keep in mind, more magazines can be carried with minimal ease.

I would almost rather have 16-38 rounds of 9mm and my Glock 19, than a single SW .357 mag revolver. 16-38 rounds vs. 5 .357 is a no brainer to me.

I say all this to say this, the 9mm may not be the best or even close to a good bear round, but with large amounts of ammo and properly placed shots, this round(s) WILL kill a bear.


cheers,
clark

[SilentGLOCK]

What most of you fail to understand is that 99.9% OF ALL ANIMALS WILL START RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU ONCE YOU START BLASTING AWAY. In other words, the NOISE WILL GET THE JOB DONE - and although a 9mm will generally NOT give you a one shot stop on a bear - IT WILL HURT THE BEAR and will usually cause the animal to run away.

P.S. If an animial is chewing you up, it will stop if you empty your magazine (even the puny 9mm) into it's mouth and/or face.

[lastevolution]

I'm a fan of the "shoot them in the face" technique. Any living creature, be it man or animal, will leave you alone after you shoot it in the face a few times.

[Roadking522]

I really enjoyed this thread. I did Google "bear aware" and there was some great reading there! One statistic that surprised me was that since the year 1900, there have (only) been 45 human deaths by bear attack (see bottom: http://www.bearinfosite.com/bear_safe.htm)

I found that reasurringly low as I go fishing up in Canada and we all know our dear Northern friends won't allow us to bring our guns with us. I have frequently seen bear tracks on the trails that lead from lake to lake. We always travel in at least pairs and are always talking or whistling so as not to surprise a bear. Bear spray will always be with me on future trips!

[kensteele]

in colorado, you'll be just find with your glock. it's not alaska lol. maybe people go into the woods with just spray or nothing and do just fine. so will you.

[Sarge45]

Originally posted by john_glock_mi
If carrying a G26 against any type of bear, I would make sure to fire the entire magazine. Double tap shots are not going to do it.

Save the last round for yourself.

[GTnBarrel]

Originally posted by Sarge45
Save the last round for yourself.

Gee that's comforting.

I knew i would get good info from GT - thanks again all.
I will keep my G26 in the smartcarry and carry bear spray in my front pouch...and pray I don't live this scenario.

[meshmdz]

call me crazy, but i will GLADLY take my G26 over "bear spray." :upeyes: Its just hard to rationalize the armament of SPRAY over one of the best 9mm's on the market. while it might be affective, i would still gladly strap my 26, if thats all i had.

:banana:

[SilentGLOCK]

I will keep my G26 in the smartcarry and carry bear spray in my front pouch...and pray I don't live this scenario

Perhaps you should read what I said - and also realize that your bear spray only works when they get CLOSE where the G26 can scare them hundreds of yards out - and even HIT them at 100 yards if you know how to shoot.........

P.S. Just stay out of the woods - City Slicker.......:rofl:

[Glolt20-91]

A CLASSIC LESSON IN BEAR RECOGNITION

For those of you who hike or go for camping trips in the woods.....

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field.

They advise that campers wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. They also advise campers to carry pepper spray with them
in case of an encounter with a bear.

It is a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Campers should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear dung. Black bear dung is smaller and
contains lots of berries and squirrel fur.

Whereas, Grizzly dung is larger and has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray.

Bob :cowboy: :supergrin:

[Ranger.357]

Originally posted by GTnBarrel
My daily carry is G26 with Gold Dot 124 Grain. I live in CO and have recently started dirt motorcycling into the back country.
My question is only survival protection: If I ran into a bear that was going to harm me, besides carrying a bazooka, is there any load I can put into my G26 9mm that would have any bear "get off of me and eat someone else" power?
or do I need to purchase a G39 45 GAP or G33 357 if this is my concern.
Thanks for the education

Have you concidered purchasing the magnum size can of pepper spray. I've seen demonstrations on different bears, and none of them want anything to do with the person holding the spray.

9.2 oz FRONTIERSMAN Bear Attack Deterrent with Chest Holster

Heavy Fog Delivery

2.0% CRC - Maximum Strength

35 Foot Range!

Glow-In-The-Dark Safety

$67.

[Mark 19]

Originally posted by Glolt20-91
Whereas, Grizzly dung is larger and has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray. :perfect10:

[GTnBarrel]

Originally posted by SilentGLOCK
I will keep my G26 in the smartcarry and carry bear spray in my front pouch...and pray I don't live this scenario

Perhaps you should read what I said - and also realize that your bear spray only works when they get CLOSE where the G26 can scare them hundreds of yards out - and even HIT them at 100 yards if you know how to shoot.........

P.S. Just stay out of the woods - City Slicker.......:rofl:

SilentGlock,
I now realize that "keep my G26 in the smartcarry" has the connotation of "not using it". Wrong choice of words. I meant to say. I will carry both from now on and use what ever is appropriate.
Although I can't imagine it would be reasonable to pop a bear at 100 yds for agressive behavior, I can hit him/her at 25 if s/he is wearing an Osama silhouette..;)

[English]

Originally posted by Glolt20-91
Nice opinions English, doesn't quite work that way in the real world. Reinventing the wheel with opinions on the G20 vs. 44mag doesn't change the dynamics of a killing frenzy. The dynamics of a bear attack are totally different than a casual meeting on the trail.

One major misconception people have is that they will see the bear on the trail, get out their trusty bear spray and everything will be okay. A full fledged bear attack can also have a blackie charging through thick brush at 45ft/sec (a grizz can sprint to over 60ft/sec when chasing down elk, a mountain will come over the top of brush) and that's the speed the victim will be hit with. If you can shoot off 16 rounds in a second or two; then more power to you. :)

Falling on a pistol vs a revolver is irrelevant for the purpose of this thread.

A major advantage of a revolver vs. pistol that is relevant to this thread is a revolver can be pushed into the ribs (or whatever) and continue to fire while a pistol can't. The six inch barrel on the Glock may or may not overcome this pistol shortcoming.

I load upper end for both the .44mag and 10mm; the full lug under the 6.5" barrel of the M629 gives better balance than the G20, the Smith N-frame ergonomics are superior to that of the G20 with my hand size and my rate of fire with the M629 is the same as the G20.

I've tested both calibers (and others) shooting through thick brush and the .44mag gives me the most confidence of scoring a direct hit on target.

Bear spray may or may not be a viable alternative; mountain trails have this nasty habit of strong winds that can change direction in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is carry what locals carry because it works.

This M29 Mountain is a very comfortable CCW carry in a pancake FBI tilt holster. :)

Bob :cowboy:

I would not for a moment suggest that a 10mm would match a .44 Magnum. I also think that in an attack such as you describe, you would be lucky to get off one shot.

There are two likely scenarios. One is a bear showing agressive signs at twenty yards or so and the other is as you describe.

A believe a big grizzly has been killed with a single 10mm but it was not a charging grizzly and I am sure that a .44 Magnum would have been a far better choice. The number of people killed by a bear averages out at less that one every two years so the risk is not great. We then have to weigh this risk against the physical cost of carrying a weapon on a dirt bike on which the rider will be bounced around quite hard. A rifle would obviously be more effective but at a much higher cost of carrying it on a bike. The .44 is more effective than a 10mm but its carry cost is also greater. Personaly, my cost benefit analysis would come down in favour of the G20 but the thrust of my post was really to say that pepper spray was better still.

If we look at the first scenario we have a good chance of surviving that. A round fired into the ground will usually be enough to frighten the bear off. If it starts to charge, shooting it a few times might be enough but once it is close enough I believe the spray gives you a better chance.

Once a bear is charging or actually dragging you around it has gone out of its wary or fearful mode and is now very resistant to pain. We know from a multitude of human shooting incidents that bullets can cause very little pain. Later it is different but that is too late. We also know that may people hit with multiple body shots which will produce death in 30 seconds keep fighting hard for much of that time. I suspect that bears will last longer thean people and so even though the 44 is better than the 10, neither will be enough soon enough. Pepper spray, directly attacking the exposed nerves of the nose and eyes seems able to get through this pain block. I believe this is far more likely to stop a bear which already has you in its teeth immediately than anything other than a head shot. And a head shot with a 10mm will be almost as good as ahead shot with a .44 Magnum.

With the second scenario of a high speed charge from the cover of brushwood, you will be unlikely to survive unscathed, but if you are in a condition to get hold of anything and use it I believe that once again you are better off with pepper spray. It is more likely to turn a charge and more likely to drive the bear off once it has caught you.

Incidentally, I have no qualms about shooting a bear. The bear population is quite large enough to withstand the occasional shot.

English

[lumberjack]

FWIW on barrel compatability:

G19 barrel will work in G26
G17 barrel will not work in a G19
G34 barrel will work in a G17
G20 barrel will not work in a G29

For riding in bear country, I'd carry a G20 or G29, if I were hiking, I'd carry a G20 and a Marlin GG in 45-70 or an X frame revolver, probably a 5" 460.

The G20 is carryed on my person, the X frame or rifle would be on the pack.

[rick_reno]

Pepper spray works good on grizzly bears, it's been less effective on black bears. Most encounters with bears are encounters with black bears. Grizzly bears have been clocked at 45 fps - they charge with the head low vital areas protected. Often the charge is a bluff, you won't know until it's over. If you shoot one, be prepared to spend some quality time with people wearing badges. If you're carrying pepper spray - this is the best http://www.udap.com/

[lumberjack]

Originally posted by rick_reno
...be prepared to spend some quality time with people wearing badges....[/url]

Better than chilling on a stainless slab with a tag on your toe.

[GTnBarrel]

Again- good info, food for thought and humor. Thanks all

[outlaw1niner]

Originally posted by lumberjack
Better than chilling on a stainless slab with a tag on your toe.

Don't you mean, better than becoming bear poop?!!

I've sprayed a few black bears and a pack of feral dogs with bear spray and none of them stuck around to bother me anymore. Most black bears I've seen will run away at the sight of a person. Many can be frightened away by yelling at them and waving your arms around. I know because I've done it.

The bears that I sprayed I did so because they didn't run off when they saw me, they didn't run off when I yelled and waved my arms at them, but they ran away very quickly when they got a blast of bear spray in their faces. In each case the reaction was the same, all aggressive behavior stopped, and they all took off running away from me. I have no personal experience with grizzlies since they don't live where I live.

However, I have friends from Alaska, and they said the spray works on the big bears up north just fine. One of them was a Game Officer for the state of Alaska. He's been retired for about 10 years now. He told me how he once had to shoot a big "brownie" off of him with a .44 Mag. He said no handgun offers enough power for that. He finally killed the bear by putting the muzzle right up to the bear's neck while it was chewing on him and firing his last shot, the first 5 being ineffective at stopping the bear. He even showed me the scars he has from this most unpleasant encounter.
His advice is to carry spray as a first line of defense, the firearm is only secondary, but chances are you won't ever need it since bear attacks are actually fairly uncommon.

[magsnubby]

Originally posted by Glolt20-91
A CLASSIC LESSON IN BEAR RECOGNITION

For those of you who hike or go for camping trips in the woods.....

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field.

They advise that campers wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. They also advise campers to carry pepper spray with them
in case of an encounter with a bear.

It is a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Campers should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear dung. Black bear dung is smaller and
contains lots of berries and squirrel fur.

Whereas, Grizzly dung is larger and has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray.

Bob :cowboy: :supergrin:

I've saw this a bunch of times. And it still cracks me up.

[another okie]

Don't sell your 26. It's perfect for protection from 2 legged predators and you'll regret it if you do.

As far as bears are concerned, I know nothing about them and I'm willing to admit it on the internet!

[Oneiros]

Originally posted by Sertory_glock
Since you're on a motorcycle, have you considered a scabbard and a lever action for bear protection?

Lever action? Motorcycle? No, you've got it wrong, all wrong...



















http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/TheColdTruth/rifleman1lf.jpg

:banana: :animlol: :laughabove: :hugs: :shocked: :thumbsup: :wavey:

[johnydoe]

Originally posted by Oneiros
Lever action? Motorcycle? No, you've got it wrong, all wrong...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/TheColdTruth/rifleman1lf.jpg

:banana: :animlol: :laughabove: :hugs: :shocked: :thumbsup: :wavey:

Is it legal to carry the rifle like that???

[Retread]

:laughabove:You guys are killing me.:laughabove:

First the S&W 629 called a Ruger.

Then the 6" barrel in the ribs "Probably" working. (Note: Probably even easier to push out of battery.)

Bear poop w/bells, seasoned with pepper spray.

Now, AK'n down the pike.

....I love it.....


Gimme that Swedish anti-tank gun on ski's pulled by elves with bells on their butts so the bears can chase them down instead of me.

[Harold Mayo]

Your G26 is fine. 9mm will kill a black bear, no problem.

[GTnBarrel]

Originally posted by Harold Mayo
Your G26 is fine. 9mm will kill a black bear, no problem.

How do you know that? I would hate to pi$$ a charging Black bear off because I only winged him/her.

Others above seem to disagree with your statement.

Thanks for the reply.

[Harold Mayo]

Originally posted by GTnBarrel
How do you know that? I would hate to pi$$ a charging Black bear off because I only winged him/her.

Others above seem to disagree with your statement.

Thanks for the reply.

They can disagree all they want, it doesn't change anything.

To clarify, however, I would not intentionally go hunting a black bear (or any bear) with a G26 only nor would I rely on it to stop a bear in a "killing frenzy" (whatever that happens to be) immediately. Still, it's the craftsman and not the tool that counts. If you can't make hits under stress with a 9mm then I doubt that you can make hits under stress with a 10mm or a .500 S&W. If you're really worried all that much about it, bear spray and a large-caliber handgun with the heaviest cast solids possible should do the trick. I've been eyeing the "new" Rugers in .454 Casull/.45 Colt as a nice gift to myself for Christmas.

[Cancer]

With the popularity of Tapout/MMA/UFC/Pride/Octagon fighting in the last few years, could someone be possibly skilled enough to use choke holds or joint locks against a pissed-off charging grizzly? Some of my friends think a top fighter like Tito Ortiz or Chuck Liddell could possibly grapple and take a grizzly down bare handed, but I think they're dreaming too much. I wonder if anyone would ever want to fight a full-grown grizzly in an Octagon match? If you want to "tapout", I don't think the bear will listen! I've read that the biggest Kodiak and Polar bears stand 11-12 feet tall, and are nearly 6 feet tall at the head when on all fours. And their paws are nearly as wide a man's chest. One swipe, and you just got open heart surgery for free!

Supposedly, some karate fighter named "Mas Oyama" was able to kill 50 charging bulls bare handed (one at a time), some with just one punch to the head. Some say he could've killed grizzlies bare handed, but he never did take that challenge up. That would've been a sight to see!

I guess, if all else fails, including pepper spray and bullets, you could always try to poke the bear's eyes out... or get him in a submission hold, ala Royce Gracie!

Since I have a 500SW, I'd probably use that for pistol-size protection against a bear, but if all I could bring was the Glock 26, I'd still take it, but I'd fully load up the mag, and hope I never see Yogi Bear up close...

[Warp]

Take a Grizzly intent on doing you harm (or eating you) down bare handed?

Yeah, that's dreaming.

[degoodman]

Like all threads on the subject of wilderness protection, the responses are pretty evenly divided between people who live, work, or regularly hunt in areas that have populations of potentially dangerous game animals, people who think they do because the distribution map shows that bears (black bears) inhabit nearly the whole country, and all habitats within that generous range (they don't), and finally, city slickers who think that a Glock is the answer to any problem that might require you to kill something.

Here's the straight dope on this stuff.

Bears generally avoid contact with humans whenever possible. If a person has contact with a bear, the cotact was usually the result of ignorant mistakes by the human that were completely avoidable. Knowing how to move in bear country, how to store and carry both your food and your trash, and what to do should you encounter a bear will prevent most bear encounters, and the ones that you do have will be rare photo opportunities with these majestic, solitary cretures.

When you're in bear country stealth is your enemy, unless you're actually hunting for bears or other game and are equipped accordingly. The bells in your shoelaces, rustling brush as you move, and carrying on conversation with your partners all serve to warn bears of your approach, and give them time to leave of their own accord. Be aware of scent control techniques to use with your food stores, and never ever store food, dirty cooking utensils, or trash with you in your campsite. Up in a tree in a bear locker would be best, or sealed in containers in the trunk of a car if you're traveling that way, etc are the way to go. NEVER keep food in your tent with you. Be aware of where you are when you fish, and be prepared to leave your stringer behind. And no matter what, never ever come between a sow and her cubs.

If you do happen to have one of the exceedingly rare adverse encounters with a bear that results in aggressive behavior or an actual attack, bear spray is the best first line of defense, and has an extremely high probability of successfully dissuading the bear. If killing the bear becomes necessary, you will probably have only enough window of opportinity to place one to two shots, so those shots must count. Against any bear, the best defensive weapon will be a highpowered rifle, a 12 Ga shotgun loaded with slugs, or a REVOLVER loaded with full power straight walled handgun cartridges that end in the word Magnum, or are .45 Caliber and larger (LC, Casull, .460's, .475/.480's and .500's in various flavors). If it's fired by a semiautomatic handgun, it's not powerful enough to do the job you'll need it to do against a charge.

For black bears, which are by far and away the most common ones in a vast majority of the US, minimum handgun calibers would be a .357 Magnum, loaded with a non-expanding bullet like a JSP or a LSWC, a rifle .270 / 7mm or larger, mainly because 6mm / 6.5mm and smaller bullets are not of tough enough construction to reliably penetrate bones which you may need to do to put one down, or a 12 Ga shotgun loaded with slugs.

For the various brown bears (grizzly bears and brown bears are actually the same species) the minimums go up commensurate with their size. .44 Magnum is the smallest handgun most professionals would rely on, with one of the newer supermagnums like .454 Casull, .460 and .500 Smith, .480 Ruger and the like being preferred. Rifle calibers generally list .30-06 as the bottom of the range, with the various .300 Magnums and larger bores being better to stop a charger. Other workable choices would include the straight walled rifle cartridges, like the .45/70, .444 and .450 Marlin.

If you have to shoot a charging bear, a head shot is VERY likely to fail. First off, the head bobs quite a bit when running full speed, so scoring a hit is unlikely. Additionally, when charging, the skull plate of a bear is angled back at 60 - 75 degrees. Because of it's actual thickness and this rakish angle which increases it's appearant thickness and it's ability to cause ricochets, even a well placed shot will probably not penetrate to the brain. This is not in any way shape or form like a human bone structure, either in strength, density, or thickness. A centerline shot 1/3 up the depth of the chest to hit the heart, or a shot directed directly into the shoulder to break the animal down are your best chances of stopping a charging animal.

There are plenty of good sources of information on bears, bear hunting, and bear defense in real printed books, from the wildlife departments of states where bear is common, and from professional guides and hunters. But of the information presented so far, you'll be better served with bear spray than with a 9mm. Period. If you're going to rely on a gun as your primary means of defense, choose the right gun, and if it's made by Glock, it isn't the right gun. And if you know how to operate in bear country, you won't need a weapon at all, because the average criminal does not operate that deep in the wilderness, and your odds of an adverse encounter with an animal are basically -0-.

[360]

Now who would shoot this?

http://www.lorien1973.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/polar-bear.jpg


For real, if you get charged, this will probably be the last thing you see on this earth:

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Guy-Crittenden/Grizzly-Bear-Growling-Photographic-Print-C11996614.jpeg

My ex-father-in-law was/is a famous Russian Circus bear trainer, and has 12 brown bears. While touring with the circus here in the U.S., I didn't even like to get close to them when we were backstage and they were on the chains. Always gave them a wide space and never ever turned my back on them. (6' tall and 300 lbs balanced on his feet, by the way)

http://www.reserve.sp.ru/circus/images/0401/zolkin.jpg

[360]

Originally posted by Warp
Take a Grizzly intent on doing you harm (or eating you) down bare handed?

Yeah, that's dreaming.

I heard Native Americans used to do it with a sharpened pole...they would get close, and when the bear raised up, they would push the pole up against its chest...the bear would come down on top of it and impale itself.

Fact or legend, I don't know if that's true. That's what I heard, anyhow...

Still, ya would have to be out of your friggin' mind to get that close.

[360]

Originally posted by Oneiros
Lever action? Motorcycle? No, you've got it wrong, all wrong...


http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/TheColdTruth/rifleman1lf.jpg

:banana: :animlol: :laughabove: :hugs: :shocked: :thumbsup: :wavey:



Notice how no one is in the lane to his right? :rofl:

[GTnBarrel]

degoodman
I appreciate all the info. Please know that I have no intention of purposly staying in the woods quietly. I ride dirt motorcycles and could ( unlikely) end up stranded in the back country over night due to equipment failure or falling down and breaking an essential body part or running out of gas. In any case it would not be intentional and I always, repeat always ride dirt with a buddy. So I am just trying to learn how to be prepared to not become bear scat or mountain lion scat. Haven't gotten into the mountain lion protection yet - that is next...anyone care to respond?
Thanks
( by the way, I carry a ham radio/ cell phone/water/ food bars( which I could not keep on me if stranded) 2 tire tubes and tools and air pump and gas siphon - and will now have fmj rounds + 1 full mag and bear spray readily at hand. )