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chowchow
09-07-2007, 07:29
Beijing Offers Manila New Helicopters
By WENDELL MINNICK, TAIPEI
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3017976&C=asiapac

China is offering to sell the Philippines military eight Harbin Z-9 utility helicopters to help replace aging Bell UH-1H helicopters from the 1970s. Philippines government officials have acknowledged an interest in the Z-9 and another unidentified Chinese-made utility helicopter.

Military-to-military relations between the countries have been improving steadily since 2004, when Beijing and Manila began a security dialogue. Recently, China donated $2.5 million in engineering equipment and an additional $2 million in direct military aid.

The Philippines has about 38 UH-1Hs and a mix of other helicopters, including a small number of Sikorsky S-70s and S-76s, and Bell 205s, 214s and 412s. Additional helicopters would help the military control the insurgency in the south against communist and radical Islamic rebel groups.

The Philippines is currently accepting bids for eight attack helicopters for an estimated $25.8 million contract. McDonnell Douglas, AgustaWestland and an unnamed Polish company are competing for the contract.


Related link: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3017976&C=asiapac
Uploaded file

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/Z-9G_1.jpg


http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/Z-9G_3.jpg

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/Z-9G_2.jpg

toxic
09-07-2007, 08:23
Hope its not another ZTE

chowchow
09-07-2007, 08:31
Hope walang recall for lead tainted paint, lol.

chowchow
09-07-2007, 08:39
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aerospatiale.puma.hc1.fairford.arp.jpg



Puma helos are also an excl choice.


http://www.agustawestland.com/products_pop6.asp?id_img=178
And these are deadly killers too.

Kaiser Soze
09-07-2007, 09:23
Does this mean we'll be seeing RP soldiers with AK's soon?:shocked:

isuzu
09-07-2007, 19:36
Originally posted by chowchow
Puma helos are also an excl choice.

The PAF had a Puma and a Blackhawk during the early to mid-80's assigned to the presidential fleet. Heard the Blackhawk crashed and the Puma was decommissioned. I saw the Puma start up at the parade grounds at the Villamor Air base. The start-up was a long process.

chowchow
09-07-2007, 21:47
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/ru_monino_aircraft_su25_01.jpg


The Russky SU 25s are cheap and combat proven. Maybe perfect for our counterinsurgency needs.

New_comer
09-07-2007, 23:21
That $26 million is our money. They're buying gadgets that may easily be shot down with RPG's. If we look at history, there's no way to win a siege battle like what we have now in Basilan, and not lose hundreds of our own soldiers.

Why don't they just carpet bomb that stupid island, burn everything down and wait for the bandits to come scurrying out of their ratholes? We don't extract any useful resource from that place anyway, except harbor bandits by the hundreds. Evacuate all non-combatants, then rain hell on the Abu Sayyaf! Those who would survive would have to come out or face starvation.

/rant off ;)

Glock_19_9x19
09-08-2007, 00:32
Not bad for a multi-role replacement ng Hueys natin. Harbin Z-9s are license built versions of the SA/AS 365 Eurocopter (formerly Aerospatiale) Dauphin and not to be confused with the SA 330 Aerospatiale Puma, which the PRC doesnt have. Z-9s are medium-weight multipurpose twin-engine helicopters that can carry 2 crew and 10 troops each. Currently fielded by the Chinese military as shipborne ASW/ASUW(Anti-Submarine Warfare/Anti-SUrface Warfare)platform Z-9C , Anti-Tank WZ-9 or Z-9W, and Utility Z-9B. The US Coast Guard uses the Eurocopter version which they call the HH-65 Dolphin.

The other unidentified Chinese helicopter could either be the Changhe Z-8 (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z8.asp) (SA 321Ja Super Frelon) Multirole Helicopter, or the fairly new Habrin Z-15 (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z15.asp) Medium Utility Helicopter


Picture shows a Eurocopter Panther, military version of the Dauphin, courtesy of http://www.fas.org. Note: The Z-9 is generally identical to the AS 365 Dauphin, but later variants of the Z-9 incorporate more composite materials for high strength and lower radar signature. Hence, baka nga may lead :supergrin: hehe
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/panther-new011.jpg
Here's another one...It reminds me of Airwolf
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/panther-501.jpg
Harbin Z-9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-9)
Harbin Z-9 pictures (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z9.asp)
Eurocopter Dauphin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Dauphin)

chowchow
09-08-2007, 08:33
Ok pala ang dateng. Hope the PAF will get some for trial run. The small propeller on the back is protected and more stable daw ito .
On the Z 8, parang Sea King ang porma, heavy lifters din yun. Diba gamit ng mga British Marines yan sa Falklands War?

isuzu
09-08-2007, 08:52
Originally posted by chowchow
Ok pala ang dateng. Hope the PAF will get some for trial run. The small propeller on the back is protected and more stable daw ito .
On the Z 8, parang Sea King ang porma, heavy lifters din yun. Diba gamit ng mga British Marines yan sa Falklands War?

The supposed tail rotor is what is called "Fenestron" by Aerospatiale, that was first used in the Gazelle. It's a revolutionary development as opposed to the conventional tail rotor that is exposed and prone to damage; plus, it doesn't need a lot of energy to operate compared to the conventional tail rotor.

Hughes also came out with its NOTAR or No Tail Rotor technology.

isuzu
09-08-2007, 09:03
Originally posted by chowchow
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/ru_monino_aircraft_su25_01.jpg


The Russky SU 25s are cheap and combat proven. Maybe perfect for our counterinsurgency needs.

For COIN operations, you would need an aircraft that can fly low and slow. The OV-10 Brocos that we acquired from the US and Thailand are a perfect example of a COIN fixed-wing aircraft. I would go for the Warthog for this role (the US is decommissioning them in a couple of years). It's heavily armored and could fly low and slow. It could also loiter in an area for a long time.

For Rotary wing aircraft, the UH-1H is still the best choice (the US Marines still use the platform - the UH1Y). Both the UH-1H and the Hughes 520 attack helicopter make a great team.

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/bellUH-1Y.cfm

The UH-1H upgrade (Huey II)

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/bellHueyII.cfm

Transitioning the PAF's current chopper pilots won't be that difficult. Of course, they will have to be trained with the new equipment, but the time and the cost would be cheaper compared to a completely different equipment.

The Blackhawk is a heavy chopper, cumbersome to maneuver and land in tight spaces (that's why the soldiers in Black Hawk Down had to rappel), and easy to hit because of its size.

horge
09-08-2007, 17:03
IMO rin, Su-25 are next to useless for COIN in the Philippine context.
A-10's would be nice, good survivability of both plane and pilot
even against SAM's, but I don't think Fairchild has ever resumed
production, and the US A-10's might not be decomm'ed any time soon.
Not at least until they've been too worn out by present engagements.
I'd look into better Kevlar/composite belly armor for the UH-1H,
and buying one of four ailing East European companies that have the
tech infrastructure to xray the airframes and rebuild the engines
as necessary.


IMHO, lang, ha?
The ideal COIN support aircraft is prop-driven, fixed wing.
But, I'm not talking about the Tcano or Super Tucano, either, though
either would be a great match to PAF maintenance infractructure
and operating budget considerations.

I'm talking about aerial artillery.
A budget version of the Spectre gunships, or an
updated incarnation of Gen. Rancudo's 'Maulers'.

-Fly in the troops
-After offload, strip out the seating
-Mount the gun, munitions (prepositioned at various airstrips)
-Blast enemy placements from high altitude.

If SR can be employed to chuck transponders into targets,
so much the better. Lots of airframes can be converted to
the role, Spanish b/new, Russian and US surp, etc.

The foregoing was last hashed out to death online at PDFF,
back in 2004. http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=579&st=60

userfriendly
09-08-2007, 20:23
A-10s are currently undergoing a refit and will not be retired anytime soon.

Qute from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II

"The A-10 is scheduled to stay in service with the USAF until 2028 , when it may be replaced by the F-35 Lightning II. The entire A-10 fleet is currently undergoing upgrades. The A-10 could stay in service longer due to its low cost and its unique capabilities which the F-35 simply cannot incorporate such as its cannon, ruggedness and slow flying capabilities."

antediluvianist
09-09-2007, 04:21
Manila gets $3m military aid from China
CHINA will give the Philippines about US$3 million worth of 'non-lethal' military equipment to carry out development projects in areas where communist and Muslim rebels operate, officials said on Monday. via The Straits Times

I can see it now - US soldiers using Chinese equipment, just like in "Firefly".

PMMA97
09-09-2007, 05:39
Originally posted by antediluvianist
I can see it now - US soldiers using Chinese equipment, just like in "Firefly".

Shiny :supergrin:

anticentipede
09-09-2007, 08:55
To stop the terrorists in Basilan all we need are 100 tons of nerve gas.

chowchow
09-09-2007, 09:08
Hindi ba kaya ng AFP, syaro naman.

CatsMeow
09-09-2007, 20:48
I read an old Popular Mechanics article to the effect that ALL helicopters are flying coffins, due to the level of skill needed to fly one; one mistake and it goes in, and you couldn't even bail out; you'll get chopped to bits by the rotor. As another article said: "If your nose itches while you are hovering, too bad, for if you take a hand off the controls the helicopter will do its best to scratch your nose for you.":supergrin:

As such, helicopters are only as good as the pilots flying them.

In the airshow I described earlier, they had a Eurocopter Dauphin 2 on display; we watched it taxi in behind a PAF "Follow Me" jeep. A distinctive feature of this bird, and indeed all helicopters with fenestron tail rotors, is the high-pitched whine from the fenestron.

Still, if we only had some of those old C-47s flying, the "Puff the Magic Dragon" AC-47 concept of side-firing machine guns might work; watch John Wayne's "The Green Berets". The Colombian air force still uses turboprop powered C-47s with three side-firing Browning .50s.

chowchow
09-09-2007, 22:35
I remember in 1978 when I was still an elem kid. The entire school was bused to the airport to meet the arrival of former First Lady Marcos. It took a long time for her to show up. Advance party consisted of several huey choppers and there was this old DC 3 that landed. Out came several top generals and one was Gen Fidel Ramos. He was still PC Head that time. We all cheered and had a great time seeing all these dignitaries . Marcos time, maporma talaga...

CatsMeow
09-09-2007, 22:50
I was there too! Di ba when Imelda inagurated the Talay BLISS? When Imelda came out, wow, the screaming crowd. Hard to believe this was a few years before EDSA.:supergrin:

The DC-3 did not make much noise, but plenty of smoke, when it started up. But when it took off... the delicious roar...:thumbsup: