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userfriendly
09-08-2007, 20:10
Q: if you are carrying and need to go inside a mall or similar place where you can not carry, do you:
a. leave you FA in the car
b. deposit it with the guard

neil
09-08-2007, 20:24
Originally posted by userfriendly
Q: if you are carrying and need to go inside a mall or similar place where you can not carry, do you:
a. leave you FA in the car
b. deposit it with the guard

I carry it with me.

isuzu
09-08-2007, 23:26
If you deposit it with the guard, make sure he or she issues a receipt and make sure you get the full name of the guard. As per PTC regulations, you can't carry them inside the mall.

3kings
09-08-2007, 23:37
i will leave it in the car.

check the back of your ptc i know its written there regarding entering establishments.

Glock_19_9x19
09-08-2007, 23:38
SM Malls, U can bring it inside the mall but you have to log-in your name sa logbook ng guard.
Glorieta or any other Ayala Malls, bawal talaga magpasok.

bmag
09-09-2007, 00:20
That's right, SM guards allow you to carry basta i-log lang.
One Robinson Galleria guard let my buddy with carry to pass thru while asking me to deposit mine. Ok daw pag di halata. Pag bakat pagagalitan sila ng supervisor pag nakita.

I figure mas importante yung carry when getting back into the parked car rather than iwanan lang sa kotse.

bertud ng putik
09-09-2007, 01:28
ako nung may ptc pa, dala ko sa lahat ng malls. inilalagay ko sa bag ng mga baby ko para di halata. di na sila nag kakapkap pag mga damit ng bata dala ko.:supergrin:

kcboy
09-09-2007, 04:07
ako, i leave it in the car especially if i am parked in the covered parking lot of the mall, but if i park in the open lot, i usually carry my gun inside the mall, using an ankle holster. i dont intend to use it, it's just that im uncomfortable leaving my FA in the open parking lot.:)

G19c,PH
09-09-2007, 04:14
As per your experience which malls allow to carry and do not:

Allow:
1.SM malls
2.MCS
3.?
4.?


Does not allow:
1.Glorietta
2.?
3.?
4.?

What about powerplant,hp,v-mall,promenade,cinemas inside malls,gateway,shang,market-market,allimall.....

3kings
09-09-2007, 07:34
bro g19c looks like may mall tour ka:)

toxic
09-09-2007, 12:43
mukha kase akong holdupper ,so when i go to malls in manila, i just leave it in the Car with a trusted friend roaming around the parking lot to prevent any abala or sita.

jerrytrini
09-09-2007, 14:17
Mall guards do not frisk below your waist. They search your carry ons and around your waistband only, this method of search is not a search at all. My FA is in an ankle holster all the time. My 2 cents.

horge
09-09-2007, 16:43
Basic rule of thumb is:

If the mall has a tenant gun store, they will allow licensed CCW.
If however you cannot CC your W, meaning it prints blatantly
through your clothing, you will have to deposit the piece.

Manong Jerry is spot on about ankle holsters, although I can't
wear one for very long without getting a cramp in my hip.

isuzu
09-09-2007, 18:38
When I went home in June, the guards at Greenbelt all the way to SM (neat, they interconnected the malls), had metal detectors. I don't know if they diligently use them.

riddler
09-09-2007, 19:06
Originally posted by horge
If however you cannot CC your W, meaning it prints blatantly through your clothing, you will have to deposit the piece.

If it is printing through your clothing,.... you are not CCing your W.

I can't understand why some go through the guise of trying to conceal it and then make it obvious that they are carrying a weapon.

:shakehead:

jerrytrini
09-09-2007, 19:09
It is just getting used to wearing it. I remember the first day I wore it with my SW Airlite. It was uncomfortable at first but I got used ot it real fast because I always wear my shirt tucked in and besides, I do not fancy wearing belt or IWB holsters. I do however carry a speed strip for reload.

Gentlemen and ladies, regardless of holster you wear, get used to it and practice drawing your handgun from any position and angle. Practice, practice and more practice.

When I patrol the east side of my division, sometimes my gun was unholstered resting btwn my legs.

CatsMeow
09-09-2007, 20:25
I asked one high-ranking PNP officer, and he says carrying in a mall is a no-no. A mall is included in the definition "amusement place". So I leave it in the car. MCS however could be a different thing.

Before this, my experience was when I entered SM Manila. The guards didn't spot my piece, but uncovered my spare mags. Took quite a lot of explaining before they allowed me in.:upeyes:

userfriendly
09-09-2007, 21:28
Its too bad that my FA is a full size 9mm and will not fit in an ankle holster.

I also know that malls are "ammusement places" and considered restricted areas sa PTC. Thats the reason for this question. I dont want to violate the PTC rules. At the same time I'm not comfortable with leaving it with the guards or inside the car.

CatsMeow
09-09-2007, 21:46
If you don't want to feel "naked", one solution would be one of those miniature .32s or .380s by Beretta, Kel-Tec or NAA, in a pocket holster. The cursory search of the mall guards I experience might not uncover them. However, if you have to draw it for the purpose for which you are carrying it, that is, to save your life, you may live, but you will be in deep legal doo-doo for not declaring it; also all those hoplophobes will be crying for your hide for "making the mall a dangerous place" with your little .32.

I wish the malls would adopt a PTC-friendly policy, for those with nefarious purposes don't even bother with a PTC or a mall restriction anyway...:supergrin:

G19c,PH
09-09-2007, 23:47
Originally posted by userfriendly
At the same time I'm not comfortable with leaving it with the guards or inside the car.

+1

If the mall that im going to have a covered parking area i'll just leave my FA inside the car if not i think i'll adopt the ankle holster.

CatsMeow
09-09-2007, 23:55
Originally posted by G19c,PH
+1

If the mall that im going to have a covered parking area i'll just leave my FA inside the car if not i think i'll adopt the ankle holster.

Ditto. I used to park at the Glorietta parking building next to Landmark, and if I wanted to go to Megamall, I took the MRT (and hoping I won't be needing my G19 anytime soon).:supergrin: Megamall covered parking is always full come noontime...

mariner19
09-10-2007, 00:00
Originally posted by CatsMeow

I wish the malls would adopt a PTC-friendly policy, for those with nefarious purposes don't even bother with a PTC or a mall restriction anyway...:supergrin:

i agree. btw, some ayala malls have installed door frame type metal detectors so an ankle holster would be useless.

mariner19
09-10-2007, 00:07
Originally posted by CatsMeow

I wish the malls would adopt a PTC-friendly policy, for those with nefarious purposes don't even bother with a PTC or a mall restriction anyway...:supergrin:

i agree. btw, some ayala malls have installed door frame type metal detectors so an ankle holster would be useless.

G19c,PH
09-10-2007, 00:21
Originally posted by CatsMeow
Ditto. I used to park at the Glorietta parking building next to Landmark, and if I wanted to go to Megamall, I took the MRT (and hoping I won't be needing my G19 anytime soon).:supergrin: Megamall covered parking is always full come noontime...


IIRC ang covered parking sa glorietta is parksquare1 and parksquare2 tpos underground parking in front of 6750, konti na lang yata open parking nila.

horge
09-10-2007, 00:25
Originally posted by CatsMeow
I asked one high-ranking PNP officer, and he says carrying in a mall is a no-no. A mall is included in the definition "amusement place"...

The matter is really up to the discretion of the proprietors.
If the mall owers allow it, then it is allowed.
If not, then not.
:)

Glock_19_9x19
09-10-2007, 00:43
As per your experience which malls allow to carry and do not:

Allow:
1.SM malls
2.MCS
3.Harrison Plaza
4.Robinsons Place Ermita
5.

Does not allow:
1.Glorietta or any Ayala Center mall
2.
3.?
4.?

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 00:56
Glorietta pa naman is my favorite mall. No surprise that there aren't any gun shops there, except for Hahn.

Thanks for the guide. Do I take it you should have your PTC in hand to present to the guard once your piece is discovered, or just keep quiet and hope the guard isn't very thorough?:supergrin:

Still, some other issues...the person on the line next to you would know you're carrying, and if you're unlucky, that person happens to be Nandy Pacheco...:banana:

BTW, since you quote Hans Ulrich Rudel, you do know who he is and what plane he flew?:thumbsup:

Glock_19_9x19
09-10-2007, 01:06
Originally posted by CatsMeow


since you quote Hans Ulrich Rudel, you do know who he is and what plane he flew?:thumbsup:


Which one? The JU-87 Stuka or the FW-190? :)

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 01:12
It was in the Stuka on the Eastern Front, I think, that he earned the Knight's Cross with Swords, Oak Leaves and Diamonds, one of only a handful of pilots to earn it. He specialized in destroying Soviet tanks. I think his Stuka was the one with the 40mm cannon under each wing. As to the FW-190, I'll check, the Stuka is the plane usually associated with him.:)

Glock_19_9x19
09-10-2007, 01:29
Twas the G-1 version of the stuka, with 37mm cannons. He flew the FW190 towards the end of the war ;)

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 01:51
You're right, it was the 37mm Stuka (the 40mm was the tank-buster version of the Hawker Hurricane), and Oberst Rudel developed the tactic of attacking Russian T-34s from the rear, where there is less armor. And he was the only recipient of the Knight's Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. He lost a leg after being shot down, but continued flying until the end of the war, in the ground-attack version of the FW-190.

The concept of a heavy-cannon armed aircraft has been carried over in modern times in the form of the A-10 Warthog.

So anyway, back to topic, we welcome any tips, from those who've been there and done that, as to how to carry armed in malls without making much of a ruckus, for an attack knows no time and place...:) I've done it, but it all boils down to your piece not being discovered...

brawnless
09-10-2007, 05:28
Originally posted by CatsMeow
So anyway, back to topic, we welcome any tips, from those who've been there and done that, as to how to carry armed in malls without making much of a ruckus, for an attack knows no time and place...:) I've done it, but it all boils down to your piece not being discovered...

What if it is discovered when you are already inside the mall? eg. Ayala Center. Can you be charged for violating the provisions of the PTC? Since you were not stopped by the guard in the first place... :supergrin:

The reason behind is if one were to unknowingly enter into an establishment that prohibits firearms only to find out much later that this is so, what would be the extent of his liability?

Valor1
09-10-2007, 05:57
Ignorance of the law excuses no one but money can let you through.

New_comer
09-10-2007, 06:15
Originally posted by brawnless
What if it is discovered when you are already inside the mall? eg. Ayala Center. Can you be charged for violating the provisions of the PTC? Since you were not stopped by the guard in the first place... :supergrin:

The reason behind is if one were to unknowingly enter into an establishment that prohibits firearms only to find out much later that this is so, what would be the extent of his liability?

This is how the law is written:


c. Manner of Carrying Firearms:
1) As a general rule, firearms shall be carried only while in proper uniform.

2) The sidearm carried by a person in uniform shall be placed in a holster securely attached to the belt, except that military pilots in flying uniforms and crew of armored vehicles may carry their firearms in shoulder holsters.

3) Personnel in uniform but without holster and those in civilian clothes who are authorized to carry firearms outside their residence shall ensure that their firearms are concealed unless in actual use for a legitimate purpose.

4) The practice of flagrantly displaying a firearm or tucking it at the waist while in uniform or in civilian clothes is prohibited.

5) Only firearms specifically described in the mission orders shall be carried.
...

d. Limitations and Restrictions:

1) Those authorized to carry firearms shall not bring said firearms inside public drinking places, cabarets, public dance halls and public amusement places, or while attending civic, political and religious rallies and meetings.

I believe it's imperative that a responsible gunowner know this and interpret its meaning by heart. Bending its intent, or ignoring them altogether, to me at least, tarnishes the integrity of the greater majority of responsible FA holders. How much more if you get caught already... :upeyes:

isuzu
09-10-2007, 06:43
Originally posted by brawnless
What if it is discovered when you are already inside the mall? eg. Ayala Center. Can you be charged for violating the provisions of the PTC? Since you were not stopped by the guard in the first place... :supergrin:

Of course. You also stand to lose your PTC and possibly cancellation of your license. Ignorance of the law excuses no one. And the provisions are clearly stated at the back of your PTC.

New_comer
09-10-2007, 06:53
For the benefit of everfyone who might be interested to know the repercussion of such infraction:

PD 1866, as amended by RA 8294 (Law on Firearms, Ammunition and Explosives)

Violation:Any person who shall carry any licensed firearm (of any caliber) outside of his residence without legal authority therefore (6th Par. Sec.1)

Penalty: Arresto mayor

Arresto mayor. The duration of the penalty of arresto mayor shall be from one month and one day to six months.

Six months lang pala naman eh. Now it's up to every one of us to weigh if such action is worth the penalty, depending on the necessity of carrying outside the scope of the rules ... :thumbsup:

anticentipede
09-10-2007, 07:53
The lesson here is, don't go to ayala malls.

And if you have to, for some strange reason, don't bring your firearm.

At least we now know the ayalas are anti-gun.

boni
09-10-2007, 09:09
Originally posted by Valor1
Ignorance of the law excuses no one but money can let you through. actually knowledge of the law plus money plus "what are they in power for?" will get you through. hehehe tanong lng ako sir. :)
d ba sabi sa restriction hindi pwede dalhin to any amusement place etc etc. what if you carry your f/a to an amusement place in the d ba hindi pwede pero sa lood yung nakipag bolahan sayo is the chief PNP. so sino sisita sayo? d ba?
and another thing the law says "the chief PNP, may, in meritorious cases as determined BY HIM (the chief pnp) and under such conditions as HE (chief PNP na naman) may impose, authorize blah blah blah .... so sya lng yung tao maka revoke ng ptc?
Btw when sinasabi sa law na dapat hindi pwede tucking at the waist, ano halimbawa nun? IWB or pati OWB holster dala na rin? Kasi sa pag interpret naming dito IWB lng eh sa OWB pwede? What the law includes it excludes d ba? Hehehe
btw enjoy lng tayo each others post sir ah baka may mag taas ng kilay dyan ha hehe ultimately d ba yung GMRC parang get the feel na rin ba what your doing ba does this feel right etc so I think dapat ganun din tayo sa pag carry ng F/A. good day :)

jerrytrini
09-10-2007, 10:04
To echo Riddler's outstanding response, do not telegraph you are packing heat. Why is it that some gunowners advertise they carry a firearm?

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 19:04
Originally posted by New_comer
This is how the law is written:



I believe it's imperative that a responsible gunowner know this and interpret its meaning by heart. Bending its intent, or ignoring them altogether, to me at least, tarnishes the integrity of the greater majority of responsible FA holders. How much more if you get caught already... :upeyes:

Oh well, the ultimate conclusion of all this is, when in Ayala, DON'T. Otherwise, as a common saying of ours goes: "madaut ang imong bad record". You might get lucky and draw a fiscal or a judge who also happens to be a BoG, but if you don't, six months may be trivial, but it's going to bite your ass in the future.

For that matter, it may not be worth the trouble to carry at any mall, except MCS. I know, it took some minutes of explaining for me at SM Manila when my spare mag was discovered...:upeyes: If I get assaulted while malling, I, or my heirs, can always sue the management for lax security...:supergrin: For certain those guys who robbed Banco de Oro in Megamall some years ago didn't bother with PTCs..:supergrin:

PMMA97
09-10-2007, 19:43
Originally posted by jerrytrini
When I patrol the east side of my division, sometimes my gun was unholstered resting btwn my legs.

Sorry guys medyo off topic...

Sir is that legal?

I mean we all know that US LEO are under strict SOPs.

Can LEOs legally carry unholstered pistols while in active duty?

userfriendly
09-10-2007, 21:14
six months may be trivial, but it's going to bite your ass in the future.

lalo na kung type ka no Bruno! :rofl:

jerrytrini
09-10-2007, 21:32
No. However, driving through the alleys during hours of darkness calls for defensive mode especially you are an "L" Car (solo) where backup is 6 miles away. The weapon is holstered before I exit my car. The alleys are barely 32 feet wide with houses on both sides and trash bins all over.

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 21:38
Originally posted by jerrytrini
No. However, driving through the alleys during hours of darkness calls for defensive mode especially you are an "L" Car (solo) where backup is 6 miles away. The weapon is holstered before I exit my car. The alleys are barely 32 feet wide with houses on both sides and trash bins all over.

Er, what if you get rear-ended? Your weapon will go flying, as per Newton's law, and it won't be fun trying to grope for it. I read that's what happened to one of those FBI agents in the infamous Miami shootout...Perhaps you wedge it under one of your thighs?:)

jerrytrini
09-10-2007, 21:50
Rear ended, ambush, head on, shot at are just some of the risks we take daily. I said sometimes during alley patrol not all the time. I would submit that Saki does this mode as well?

CatsMeow
09-10-2007, 22:04
Originally posted by jerrytrini
Rear ended, ambush, head on, shot at are just some of the risks we take daily. I said sometimes during alley patrol not all the time. I would submit that Saki does this mode as well?

If anything, it proves you're always in Condition Yellow, which is great.:thumbsup: