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Flinter
09-19-2007, 23:05
I've been hearing rumors, for what that is worth, about the Army adopting a uniform in the Crye Multicam pattern. I have heard this from 2 different supply sgts that I know. Anyone got any hard info on this or is it just soldiers wishing their uniforms would actually bend with their environs?

xxiv
09-20-2007, 05:10
Who knows, but ACU's need to go.

marchboom
09-20-2007, 15:12
I agree. That ACU, with those Velco patches on the sleeves, is the worst looking uniform (US military) I've ever seen.

I guess each branch of the military hides in different surroundings. :supergrin:

The original Woodland camo BDU's are still the best.

deadday
09-21-2007, 08:28
They Army is definately in the market for a new uniform, again...The main issue is getting rid of the velcro...I mean, here's a great idea, let's put plastic on the uniform of a guy who is very likely to be involved in a vehicle fire or three...MedCom got real hot about that one from what I can tell on the sidelines..

I'm not really a big fan of the Multi-Cam, I think the idea that we can have one uniform for every environment is rediculous. The Marines have two very good patters (which the Army, in all it's wisdom, passed on)..We'll just have to wait and see what the next thing the Army makes us dump our mone on...Anybody bought their blues yet?




drew

richard1
09-21-2007, 16:07
I heard they were doing a redesign, changing pockets, ect. But nothing about a different cammo.

10-32
09-22-2007, 15:12
MedCom isn't happy with the current ACU for a host of reasons, or atleast that's what I've heard.

From what I gather, MedCom was never asked for any input on the design or it's potential adverse effects on the Soldiers who would be wearing it. For one, not being able to roll the sleeves up is a real pain, especially to folks like us who may have to be hands-on with blood or other things you don't want to carry elsewhere. Then there's the potential for molten plastic everywhere, and the list goes on.

Personally, I think the velcro looks like crap. It's impossible to keep the ACU looking good with warped velcro patches, and the uniform wears out WAY too fast. Looking professional is all about how you carry yourself with this uniform, because the uniform itself looks silly at best.


I haven't heard anything about a uniform change, but it would be nice.

Sapperstang
09-25-2007, 12:19
Maybe if they ditched the velcro and allowed soldiers to once again sew on their badges and patches it wouldn't be so bad.

Fox
09-25-2007, 20:54
Originally posted by Sapperstang
Maybe if they ditched the velcro and allowed soldiers to once again sew on their badges and patches it wouldn't be so bad.

IMO the patches and badges (like ribbons & medals) should not be worn on a combat uniform. They should be reserved for the Class A's.

xxiv
09-27-2007, 16:08
Originally posted by Fox
IMO the patches and badges (like ribbons & medals) should not be worn on a combat uniform. They should be reserved for the Class A's.

If they're sew on, then what's the problem.

If you want a patchless uniform, join the Marines. I personally liked distinguishing myself from other units/MOS's, and I was by no means a badge/tab chaser.

OBird
10-07-2007, 21:00
I too have heard this rumor, but with a 2011 deadline. If we went from ACU camo pattern to MultiCam, we'd go from one of the worst uniformed modern armies to one of the very best.

The only problem is, I'd have wasted all this money on ACU gear.

deadday
10-08-2007, 13:06
Originally posted by OBird
I too have heard this rumor, but with a 2011 deadline. If we went from ACU camo pattern to MultiCam, we'd go from one of the worst uniformed modern armies to one of the very best.

The only problem is, I'd have wasted all this money on ACU gear.

I'm still not convinced multicam is the way to go...Cyre has been developing it for a couple years now...Personally, I think we were doing just fine with BDUs and DCUs....

Everytime we turn around the Army has a new uniform of some type for us to buy...Anybody bought their ASU (think that's what they're calling it now?) yet? My As are still good for a couple years last I heard, so I'll stick with them till then..



drew

nothing
10-08-2007, 13:27
DCU's are terrible, especially in night ops. The glow emmitted from them makes you look like a giant shoot me beacon. BDU's do fine as long as you break the starching trend. I hate the velcro and zippers on ACU's, what's wrong with buttons? They are quiet and can be repaired in the field.

I will say ACU's work great at night. Very difficult to see, as a matter of fact when 4th ID replaced us we had to be extra careful not to run over them on the FOB at night. They would get lost since they were new and next thing you know they somehow managed to wander in between your track and ground guide.

GreenBeret1631
10-18-2007, 20:18
If they're sew on, then what's the problem.

If you want a patchless uniform, join the Marines. I personally liked distinguishing myself from other units/MOS's, and I was by no means a badge/tab chaser.


I agree with you 100%!

Subdued sew ons.

NIB
10-19-2007, 21:19
You won't see a change anytime soon cause that would confirm that someone royally screwed up or was bribed!

Multi-Cam is tons better then UCP, heck Multi-Cam even blends into UCP. Some guys have tried to look into the testing results that led to the adoption of UCP but are always hitting a brick wall, I wonder why they don't want to release the testing data.

On another board someone posted pictures comparing boonie hats in UCP, multi-cam, and woodland camo. The Multi-cam boonie hat blended in real well with the terrain while the UCP boonie hat lit up like a glow worm. Even the woodland camo boonie hat did better then the UCP hat.

I welcome the change in the pockets but the 6 miles of velcro and the zipper.....blehhhh!

Ghost-1
10-20-2007, 04:34
Yep ACU's are one of the biggest mistakes made since we had to start wearing the damn beret.

xxiv
10-20-2007, 09:13
...since we had to start wearing the damn beret.

There's an entire regiment that agrees you should not be wearing "that damn beret", assuming you're talking about the black beret.

Bravo 1
10-20-2007, 10:19
There's an entire regiment that agrees you should not be wearing "that damn beret", assuming you're talking about the black beret.


No doubt about that

eodcole
10-20-2007, 11:59
I have no pity for you army folk. You guys have seen what the airforce is giving us? It's so bad Tiger Stripe Products(contracted for pattern development) has an apology on their website for what the airforce leadership chose. I've got a year left so fortunately I will not have to buy any of it. Maybe the generals in the airforce and the army that decided on these respective uniforms hung out?

deadday
10-23-2007, 19:02
I have no pity for you army folk. You guys have seen what the airforce is giving us? It's so bad Tiger Stripe Products(contracted for pattern development) has an apology on their website for what the airforce leadership chose. I've got a year left so fortunately I will not have to buy any of it. Maybe the generals in the airforce and the army that decided on these respective uniforms hung out?

It's a damned disgrace what the Air Force has done to that uniform. It was worn by the best we had during the Vietnam era, and has now been bastardized into that. Damned shame.



drew

the iceman
10-24-2007, 12:36
I'm glad I got out in the BDU/DCU era!! (01/04)

I am now in college but I tend to see a lot of the army's new uniform on ROTC jokers and recruiters-even bigger jokers!

My biggest drawback would not being able to sew badges on. I would just not wear any if that were the case! The rank not being on the collar bothers me as well.

Knowing the army, more than likely they will not change for awhile. They probably have contracts out there with different companies or what not.

Most of you should know that if it makes sense, the army won't do it!

bartog17
11-18-2007, 02:57
Oh...you gotta love the ACU's...while training in the woodline (trees and brush mostly green and brown) I found a nice sized rock pile to blend in with. It actually worked great until I had to get up and move.........

Hooah
11-18-2007, 03:22
day-glow uniforms when in jungle or forest environments.

deadday
11-18-2007, 08:36
Anybody hear we get to buy new PT jackets in fiscal 09?



drew

NIB
11-29-2007, 00:34
Anybody hear we get to buy new PT jackets in fiscal 09?



drew

Yes dear god it's getting worse!

In their infinite wisdom they have figured the current PT jacket is not reflective enough. They are currently testing 3 different jackets.

One of them in, get this, Digital pattern! Oh my god they are looking at a camouflaged PT jacket that frigging is reflective.

And currently the Army is having a huge issue with blown crotches on the ACU! They have known about this since 2005 and still yet haven't figured it out how to fix it! But they are spending the money on a new PT jacket!!!!!

Heres the pic:
PIC HERE (http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/11/06/10019/army.mil-2007-11-07-103111.jpg)

Biscuitsjam
11-29-2007, 00:52
I'm a scout, and I'm getting sick of those damned cook whites. We're supposed to be sneaking around in the woods unnoticed, but our uniforms shine like florescent beacons to draw the eye.

Plus, there is all the other stupidity of the ACUs. Ever had a branch catch on a patch and rip it off? Ever want to open a pocket when noise discipline is essential?

We were the first brigade to get issued the ACU uniform, and after a few months, we were going on foot patrols where every single uniform had the crotch, assflap, and thigh pockets ripped out. We looked like ragbag bums. The seams have been reinforced since then, but failures do occur.

There are a few good things about the ACUs. They're pretty decent at night. They dry fast. They aren't too hot. The pockets don't have huge buttons to dig into you under the body armor. There are lots of pockets to store stuff.

Every day, I find something new to curse about the ACUs. Rank is completely obscured if you wear a slung rifle, for instance. The thigh pockets aren't quite big enough for an MRE, but anything else put into them will just fall out. Velcro patches seem to warp and change shape, looking like crap after a few weeks. The shoulder pockets seem to catch on pack straps every time a pack is worn or removed.

The biggest things are the complete lack of visual camoflage in any non-gravel environment and the horrible noise discipline. Somebody screwed up with the ACU. How the hell are we supposed to watch the enemy undetected when a blind idiot could see these things a mile away?

Jammer Six
11-29-2007, 05:47
In their infinite wisdom they have figured the current PT jacket is not reflective enough.

I'm a scout, and I'm getting sick of those damned cook whites. We're supposed to be sneaking around in the woods unnoticed, but our uniforms shine like florescent beacons to draw the eye.
Uhm, an idea just came to me...

Jammer Six
11-29-2007, 05:48
Rank is completely obscured if you wear a slung rifle, for instance.
Back in the day, one didn't need insignia to establish rank.

Just sayin'.

eisman
11-29-2007, 10:15
Every time I hear someone complaining about the Beret I have to smile. Because somebody else is going to complain about who it got taken away from. Well, I'm old enough to remeber where the Rangers got it from, and the Armor don't want it back.

(Strangely enough, berets did make some sense for wear in tracks, as they could be worn under the commo gear of that era.)

the iceman
11-30-2007, 13:12
I don't understand what was wrong with the BDU/DCU's? I thought they were great! Just goes to show the military is getting dumber and dumber every day!

deadday
11-30-2007, 14:06
Every time I hear someone complaining about the Beret I have to smile. Because somebody else is going to complain about who it got taken away from. Well, I'm old enough to remeber where the Rangers got it from, and the Armor don't want it back.

(Strangely enough, berets did make some sense for wear in tracks, as they could be worn under the commo gear of that era.)

I do believe the Cav wore the black beret before the Rangers....




drew

Bren
12-03-2007, 09:43
I don't understand what was wrong with the BDU/DCU's? I thought they were great! Just goes to show the military is getting dumber and dumber every day!

When I enlisted in the regular Army, many years ago, the BDU was the new uniform (we still got issued OG green field jackets) and all anybody wanted was to wear the old starched OG's with the tuck in shirt and baseball cap. Same thing all over again.

justinhcannon
12-07-2007, 21:15
I do believe the Cav wore the black beret before the Rangers....




drew

Maybe, but we made 'em look GOOD!
:cool:

justinhcannon
12-07-2007, 21:19
I agree on the ACU suckage. I'm prior service and in college now, and I just signed...up...for....ROTC. God help me. WTF is with the collar??? I remember ripping off our lower pockets on our BDU/DCUs and sewing them on the arms, but we kept the buttons dammit. The only velcro was for "glint tape" and a flag. No names, no service. Hell, we only wore a uniform on really big missions anyway. Looking good should come second to combat effectiveness. I think the ACU missed both.

Biscuitsjam
12-08-2007, 01:19
When I enlisted in the regular Army, many years ago, the BDU was the new uniform (we still got issued OG green field jackets) and all anybody wanted was to wear the old starched OG's with the tuck in shirt and baseball cap. Same thing all over again.This is the least camoflaged uniform that the U.S. Army has used... since just after the Spanish American War.

The lack of effective camoflage and noise discipline puts soldiers at risk in dismounted combat. We're not just talking annoyances or preferences here, we're talking about some serious problems with the ACUs. The Marine Corps got this one mostly right. It's a mystery why the army couldn't do so as well.

deadday
12-08-2007, 11:31
Like I said earlier, MarPat was originally designed by (or for, not sure) the Army, and it was turned down because the Army didn't like the digitalized camo look. Course, a bout a year later, we wind up with a FAR worse version of digitized cammo....



drew

GreenBeret1631
12-15-2007, 21:54
I do believe the Cav wore the black beret before the Rangers....




drew

True!

Link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/berethistory.htm

Even this history is wrong, as a few Airborne Ranger Companies wore them in the Korean War era. (Unauthorized of course, except at Company level.) :wavey:

livegrenades
12-23-2007, 01:25
I'm a Hyperstealth Series 1 and Series 2 customer and I get emails from the company. The US military did order a number of Series 1 uniforms. What branches and what color schemes is anyones guess though.
http://www.hyperstealth.com/spec4ce/piggyback/index.html

Bren
12-23-2007, 06:06
True!

Link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/berethistory.htm

Even this history is wrong, as a few Airborne Ranger Companies wore them in the Korean War era. (Unauthorized of course, except at Company level.) :wavey:

That is my understanding - that the first official beret was special forces, in '63 or so, then rangers and airborne, but it was never authorized for armor or any others, prior to the Army black beret.

RM
12-23-2007, 06:17
I agree with you 100%!

Subdued sew ons.


Well since all the ODA guys I worked with overseas (they were all from Ft Lewis also), "sanitized" their uniforms and refused even to have US Army or their name on their ACU or Mod DCUs. I figure there is something to the not wearing anything.

GreenBeret1631
12-29-2007, 16:40
Well since all the ODA guys I worked with overseas (they were all from Ft Lewis also), "sanitized" their uniforms and refused even to have US Army or their name on their ACU or Mod DCUs. I figure there is something to the not wearing anything.

The SF soldiers your talking about, from Ft. Lewis, WA were no doubt from the 1st SFG(A), where their Group HQ's and some teams are from. They operate in Korea, Thailand, PI, Iraq and Afghanistan and most other places in Asia and other places.

An ODA, deciding to wear 'sanitized' uniforms in a combat zone or mission, where such items would draw undue attention, etc., to the team is pretty normal. This is usually a decision made by the Group's leadership or above, prior to the mission.

It would be up to the team's leadership on some of the items you mention. In some cases uniforms, have been used, that are not issued to American forces as well as their weapons. (Vietnam SOG)

As for individual skill badges, that would be up to the individual SF soldier, in garrison situations; however, the US Army tag, rank, SF patch, group flash, and the name tag would be mandatory, in most if not all garrison assignments.

Most SF soldier that I know and am around (Includes myself in the past.) wear their skill badges and combat awards (CIB, CMB CAB) on their uniforms. As I recall, the badges on the new ACU's are required to be the metal black pin on type.

BTW: Do you visit the PS website? That signature line you use looks like it might have been adopted from there.

deadday
12-29-2007, 16:54
I've read that saying several places before (including PS.com), do you know where it came from?




drew

GreenBeret1631
12-30-2007, 22:16
I've read that saying several places before (including PS.com), do you know where it came from?




drew

I'm not sure; however I thought it was the QP that uses it there on the PS 'site.
There was a discussion on that site on it's use, etc., but I didn't follow it. :embarassed:

Magicmanmb
12-30-2007, 22:42
Simple solution bring back the Kennedy whiz kids that brought us the M-16 and make it mandatory for all services to use the same BDU. Not saying going back to pickle suits but why does the Navy need 2 different uniform depending on whether they are attached to Marine unit or Naval unit. Get everyone on the same page and make someone accountable to the US taxpayer.

Jammer Six
12-31-2007, 05:18
Uhm...

Shall we dig the dead ones up?
:upeyes:

steelvipersedg
12-31-2007, 05:53
ACU's were best intentions gone bad. VELCRO(sorry hook and loop) sucks, the service life is non exsistent. But I like the pocket ley out better. Ohh, and let us not forget the two worst words kiwi and starch. What POAG thought of that?

Jammer Six
12-31-2007, 14:58
Ohh, and let us not forget the two worst words kiwi and starch. What POAG thought of that?
If you survive long enough, eventually you may come to see the value of both.

deadday
12-31-2007, 15:26
If you survive long enough, eventually you may come to see the value of both.

What is that supposed to mean?



drew

Jammer Six
12-31-2007, 20:55
What is that supposed to mean?



drew
:rofl:

What don't you understand, Drew?

leadcounsel
01-01-2008, 20:07
The ACUs have some positives such as pockets, 'wash and wear' feature, and the elbow and knee pad pockets.

However, the digital pattern suchs for all environments except a gravel pit. It is too light colored for jungle or forest or night missions. It's too green for the desert warfare, and it doesn't work in rocky mountains either.

I think the Marines two colored uniforms are much better.

I absolutely HATE the velcro. It doesn't work and always looks sloppy at best and sometimes just plain terrible. The argument is that it's supposed to save money but in reality the savings just aren't there. And the velco is just noisy and doesn't hold the cargo pockets closed well when they are full.

I also would prefer to have sew on rather than pin on tabs.

The PT uniform is reflective, so I don't get why MORE reflective belts and vests are needed during broad daylight on roads where the speed limit is 25 mph....

As far as the Beret, it's not great but I'm not sure what I'd rather wear instead....

justinhcannon
01-01-2008, 21:42
As far as the Beret, it's not great but I'm not sure what I'd rather wear instead....


Not meant to offend you personally, but my thought was that if you didn't want to wear a funny looking green cap, then earn a beret. Airborne school is far from difficult, and you get maroon outta the deal.

leadcounsel
01-01-2008, 22:24
Justinhcannon wrote:

Not meant to offend you personally, but my thought was that if you didn't want to wear a funny looking green cap, then earn a beret. Airborne school is far from difficult, and you get maroon outta the deal.


No offense taken. I actually am Airborne qualified and also Air Assault qualified and serve with the 101st. The point is that the beret is far from a great piece of headgear -- it leaves a ring around your head, offers no sunlight protection for your face or eyes, and is hot and doesn't breath. I don't care for it, but baseball caps aren't likely going to be authorized anytime soon.

justinhcannon
01-01-2008, 22:46
Unless you're a rigger! Lol I love those guys...but man that hat is crazy!

GreenBeret1631
01-02-2008, 15:28
Justinhcannon wrote:


No offense taken. I actually am Airborne qualified and also Air Assault qualified and serve with the 101st. The point is that the beret is far from a great piece of headgear -- it leaves a ring around your head, offers no sunlight protection for your face or eyes, and is hot and doesn't breath. I don't care for it, but baseball caps aren't likely going to be authorized anytime soon.


While what you say about the con's of wearing the beret, are true, nobody I know in SF or Rangers wears their beret in the field. Do you?

I wear my Green Beret, with Pride, as I earned the right to wear it, as well as the Maroon and Tan, since I am a triple canopy retired soldier. (Airborne, Special Forces, Ranger!)

deadday
01-02-2008, 16:06
:rofl:

What don't you understand, Drew?


Survive long enough? Eventually see the benefit?




drew

Jammer Six
01-02-2008, 17:00
"Survive long enough" means that you don't die-- that you continue to live. If you die without understanding, you didn't make it.

"Eventually see the benefit" means that in the future, there is a point at which you may understand the point of kiwi and starch.

What else can I help you with?

Wyocop
01-07-2008, 00:34
OG 107s. Need more be said? :supergrin:

Seriously though, I wonder about patterns period. The IDF has been hanging on to plain olive for how long now?

Didn't most SOG RTs eventually abandon the tigers that had been popular earlier in the war with B52 Delta and the Mobile Guerrilla Forces? I've heard many of the RTs started having their tigers embroidered and wearing them around base as "profile suits" and usually wore OGs when going "across the fence."

Many WWII vets comment that the Wehrmacht was often hard to spot in their field grey.

Old time revenue agents working in the southeast usually worn green or gray work clothes, the type of stuff you might get from companies like Dickies, on still raids and surveillance. And some of those old boys could slip through the mountain laurel and rhododendron like like a "painter" (cougar).

Maybe one color would not do for everything but how about plain olive, gray, and khaki?

Wyocop
01-07-2008, 11:29
On the beret issue: at least they didn't return to the WWII practice of wearing a garrison cap with combat uniforms in garrison. You know, you've seen it in Band of Brothers, etc.

Think about it. A garrison cap serves no useful purpose as headgear at all. It doesn't provide any protection from the elements and can be hard to keep on your head in a wind.

And here's the really weird thing: a garrison cap has the unique ability to take whatever look a troop naturally has going for himself and magnify it to the extreme. For example, take a hard core, square jawed, Sergeant Rock type and put him in a garrison cap angled just so and he just looks all that much tougher. But when a sad sack plops that same garrison cap down on his head he just looks all that much sadder. Same cap, different effect. Weird.

I mean really, when you think about it, garrison caps.....:wow: You know, I believe I just described berets!

Magicmanmb
01-07-2008, 12:10
RE: Berets

Unless you earned the right to wear it (Ranger, Green Beret, Airborne, SAS)

Don't, it started with Bill Clinton's one world order mission towards the United Nations. I know it sounds a little John Birch Society but what was the reasoning behind it other than to make us more UN friendly.

tuffie226
01-13-2008, 03:38
Unless you're a rigger! Lol I love those guys...but man that hat is crazy!


Got to be the first Ranger that I have heard say he like's the Red Hat bastard children (me)!!! :thumbsup:

justinhcannon
01-13-2008, 15:28
Got to be the first Ranger that I have heard say he like's the Red Hat bastard children (me)!!! :thumbsup:

Remember that when you pack my chute! Buddy ole' pal!
:supergrin::supergrin::supergrin: