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superman79
09-26-2007, 08:08
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:

casmot
09-26-2007, 19:53
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe what you're saying is foreign "residents" and not "citizens". If you're a Filipino citizen you can own a gun and apply for a permit to carry. Gun ownership in the US is a "right" for every individual guaranteed by the US constitution. While in the Philippines, gun ownership is a "privilege" extended only to its citizens.

Sweater
09-26-2007, 19:58
Perhaps the best solution is apply for dual citizenship,i know thats what i will do someday,to carry guns in the Philippines legally.Any of our BOGS members have any suggestions.

revo
09-26-2007, 20:50
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:

Well, if you SHOUT too much they will really think you're crazy and not let you have any guns.

:supergrin:

Kaiser Soze
09-26-2007, 21:57
Originally posted by Sweater
Perhaps the best solution is apply for dual citizenship,i know thats what i will do someday,to carry guns in the Philippines legally.Any of our BOGS members have any suggestions.

Dual citizenship doesn't allow a person of foreign lineage to own a firearm, only natural-born Filipinos are allowed to own and carry firearms. My bud had the same problem, he married a Filipina, but after his lawyer did research, he found that he couldn't own one.

Allegra
09-26-2007, 23:03
Originally posted by Sweater
Perhaps the best solution is apply for dual citizenship,i know thats what i will do someday,to carry guns in the Philippines legally.Any of our BOGS members have any suggestions.


Compete in IPSC

atmarcella
09-27-2007, 01:25
Originally posted by Allegra
Compete in IPSC

if he does then can he own a gun here???

quick
09-27-2007, 03:09
Originally posted by Kaiser Soze
only natural-born Filipinos are allowed to own and carry firearms.

i posted a similar question on pinoyguns.

would anyone what specific law restricts the ownership of firearms to natural born filipino citizens?

thanks.

nrmcolt
09-27-2007, 05:42
Originally posted by revo
Well, if you SHOUT too much they will really think you're crazy and not let you have any guns.

:supergrin:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/nrmcolt/biglaugh.gif

charlie-xray
09-27-2007, 06:04
Simple Logic

In US it's a RIGHT

In RP it's a Priviledge

Doesn't this explain it enough.

Allegra
09-27-2007, 06:15
Originally posted by atmarcella
if he does then can he own a gun here???

no but he can bring his own

superman79
09-27-2007, 12:54
Originally posted by Kaiser Soze
Dual citizenship doesn't allow a person of foreign lineage to own a firearm, only natural-born Filipinos are allowed to own and carry firearms. My bud had the same problem, he married a Filipina, but after his lawyer did research, he found that he couldn't own one.

You can become a dual citizen if you reacquire your filipino citizenship (Citizenship Retention and Re-acquisition Act of 2003)(Republic act no. 9225)which means you were a natural born filipino to begin with before you became naturalized in another country. ex:US. Children of the former filipino citizen can also become citizens of the philippines as long as they're under 18 years of age and unmarried at the time of reacquisition of the former filipino citizen. Another way to become dual is at the time of birth one or both parents must be a filipino citizen. (Recognition as filipino) ex: You were born in the US (jus soli-right of soil) and you mother was a filipino citizen at the time of your birth. You can now apply for dual citizenship because you are considered a natural born filipino (jus sanguinis-Right of blood). In your friends case does he have filipino blood? If so was his mother a filipino citizen at the time of his birth? If not then he can only become a permanent resident or apply for naturalization. Being married to a filipina dosent grant you dual citizenship. You can only apply for permanent residence or naturalization if you are married to a filipina and living in the philippines for 5 years. As for being naturalized and owning a firearm?? I have heard too many stories that you can own firearm and that you cant own firearm.. Natural born is a requirement for running in executive branch postions like senator, president,etc...

colt4ever
09-27-2007, 15:18
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:


Correct me if im wrong, im living here in the U.S. for the past 2 years, tried to buy an FA from a gunstore and yet they would not allow a "foreign citizen" to purchase one. ( as in my case, a working visa). they only allow "immigrants" to have this certain right ( to own and carry FA in the U.S.). i hope that these guys on the gunstore are wrong...

batangueno
09-27-2007, 19:40
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:
Pera pera lang yan. (translation: "money talks")

vega
09-27-2007, 19:48
Originally posted by colt4ever
Correct me if im wrong, im living here in the U.S. for the past 2 years, tried to buy an FA from a gunstore and yet they would not allow a "foreign citizen" to purchase one. ( as in my case, a working visa). they only allow "immigrants" to have this certain right ( to own and carry FA in the U.S.). i hope that these guys on the gunstore are wrong...
You are not doing it the right way, in order for you and specifically you to buy a FA you should have a hunting permit. Check CA DOJ and ATF website, they allow non-legal citizen to buy firearms.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0301.pdf
If the link does not work, go to CA DOJ website and look for information bulletion 2003-01-FD.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r
If the link does not work, go to ATF and click FIREARM button.
Look FAQ on the right side and scroll down to NON-IMMIGRANT ALIENS.

Where are you trying to buy from??? You wasted 2 yrs of your time, ang dami mo na sanang collection.

Most FFLs are ignorant of the fact and you have to try to explain to them. Tell them to call DOJ (916-263-4887) and ATF (213-534-2430)so they can set it straight or make copies of the links I sent you. Do not force them if they don't want to sell to you, just tell them you want to set the record straight and they are missing the oppurtunity to make more sale.

Where is Delano BTW? Turner's would sell to non-immigrant if you have the right paper work but some managers opt not to do so. I do believe you are in SoCal, lots of FFL there who knows the law.

ETA - Which gun store did you try to buy?

I mapquest your place, I believe Wes of Ten Percent firearm is near you. He sells to legal non-residents and as long as you have the right paperwork. Do you have proof of 90 day residence?

isuzu
09-27-2007, 21:10
Originally posted by atmarcella
if he does then can he own a gun here???

He or she could be a member of a gunclub; have the firearm licensed under the gunclub's name and he becomes the user of the firearm. The firearm has to be stored in the gunclub's vault.

There is a foreigner in Bacolod who is married to a Filipina. He put up a security agency so that he could have firearms.:)

Sweater
09-27-2007, 21:40
Colt4ever, I know somebody here in NJ who has a working visa and bought handguns and rifles legally.I think its a State to State basis in regards to who they allow to acquire F.A.

superman79
09-27-2007, 22:46
Originally posted by isuzu
He or she could be a member of a gunclub; have the firearm licensed under the gunclub's name and he becomes the user of the firearm. The firearm has to be stored in the gunclub's vault.

There is a foreigner in Bacolod who is married to a Filipina. He put up a security agency so that he could have firearms.:)

I wouldnt want to keep my firearm in the gunclubs vault! You never know what they will do with it.. Maybe they would drop it and not tell you.. haha.:)

Allegra
09-28-2007, 03:20
Originally posted by superman79
I wouldnt want to keep my firearm in the gunclubs vault! You never know what they will do with it.. Maybe they would drop it and not tell you.. haha.:)


consult a lawyer , from the number of japanese dudes I see sa range bringing their own guns , they must have come into some loophole :)

atmarcella
09-28-2007, 07:13
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:

summary,

her en pelepen mani tok bolshet wok, ef u hab meni mani....u wel hab meni gans....eben ef u r nat pelepeno cetezen:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

boni
09-28-2007, 09:27
Originally posted by superman79
WHY CANT US FOREIGN CITIZENS OWN AND CARRY FIREARMS IN THE
PHILIPPINES WHEN THE US ALLOWS ITS FOREIGN CITIZENS TO OWN AND
CARRY FIREARMS?? THOUGHT WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

Actually this what I like and I want it no other way. Masakit sa mata pag may nakita ako isang foreign national na bumibitbit ng baril dito sa lupang kinalakihan ko. So far wla pa naman. Sorry sa matamaan but this is a privilege sa pinas and firearms here are not for everybody. By the way, same page you say? How can we be in the same page eh you discriminate against Filipinos? Going in or out of the Phils. for you is as easy as going to your next door neighbor while ang kawawang pinoy eh ginagago nyo d ba? International Reciprocity? You take advantage of the filipinos tapos reciprocity? Hayop! San ka ba para makatay ka. Wla nga kayo baril yet you act as if you own our country? How much more pag may mga baril na kayo. Iíll fight to the death para hindi kayo bigyan ng privilege given only to Filipinos. Ito lng para sakin yung lamang kami sa inyo. Ayaw ko na ipamahagi pa ito.

Originally posted by superman79
HOW CAN ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL PROTECT ONE SELF IN THIS CASE?:sad:

Surely if you can afford to go to the Phils. then surely you can afford the talent fee of a Filipino who is allowed to carry d ba? at By the way, kung sino ka man foreigner at hindi mo ma gets sinabi ko cguro naman you can be resourceful enough to get an interpreter. Bahala na ma ban dito, gun ban naman bukas wla na akong pakialam. Basta ako ang para sa Pilipino dapat sa Pilipino lng.

superman79
09-28-2007, 10:36
Originally posted by atmarcella
summary,

her en pelepen mani tok bolshet wok, ef u hab meni mani....u wel hab meni gans....eben ef u r nat pelepeno cetezen:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

haha!!!:rofl:

superman79
09-28-2007, 10:49
Originally posted by boni
Actually this what I like and I want it no other way. Masakit sa mata pag may nakita ako isang foreign national na bumibitbit ng baril dito sa lupang kinalakihan ko. So far wla pa naman. Sorry sa matamaan but this is a privilege sa pinas and firearms here are not for everybody. By the way, same page you say? How can we be in the same page eh you discriminate against Filipinos? Going in or out of the Phils. for you is as easy as going to your next door neighbor while ang kawawang pinoy eh ginagago nyo d ba? International Reciprocity? You take advantage of the filipinos tapos reciprocity? Hayop! San ka ba para makatay ka. Wla nga kayo baril yet you act as if you own our country? How much more pag may mga baril na kayo. Iíll fight to the death para hindi kayo bigyan ng privilege given only to Filipinos. Ito lng para sakin yung lamang kami sa inyo. Ayaw ko na ipamahagi pa ito.



Surely if you can afford to go to the Phils. then surely you can afford the talent fee of a Filipino who is allowed to carry d ba? at By the way, kung sino ka man foreigner at hindi mo ma gets sinabi ko cguro naman you can be resourceful enough to get an interpreter. Bahala na ma ban dito, gun ban naman bukas wla na akong pakialam. Basta ako ang para sa Pilipino dapat sa Pilipino lng.

Ok buddy.. You're taking this way out of context.. I do have filipino blood by the way.. 50% PINOY! You dont have to hit below the belt and say things like that. I love the philippines and i would rather live here than in the united states.I've lived here for over 15 years and would live no other place. I'm proud to have filipino blood running through my veins! I was asking a simple question to see what opinions people have on the topic of why foreigners cannot have firearms here and how they could protect oneself.. Take it easy brother.;)

horge
09-28-2007, 20:12
The short answer is hypocrisy.

:)
If (a big if) it adheres to the principle of reciprocity, then
the Philippines SHOULD extend the same freedoms to Americans as
America extends to the Philippines' own, but only within the
bounds of Philippine law.

In the 1970's, the principle of reciprocity was cited to empower a
DND Circular that allowed for the issuance of firearm licenses and
carry permits to foreign diplomats in the Philippines.
The DND issuance is today technically obsolete, since virtually
all of the laws it cites for its own derivation have been repealed.

Should foreigners be allowed to keep/carry here?
If they'd be required to buy/rent from Philippine outfits, why not?
Revenue generation is a good thing, and if it makes them more at ease
to visit more places here, and spend more of their tourist thalers,
then I'm happy for the locals. I'd limit the privilege to those
countries who are KBA friendly to Filipinos (primarily the US, IOW)

I'd object to foreigners bringing in their own guns, save for
sporting events, and to cash-prize $int'l sporting events in
general, because those tend to be a net loss to the Philippine
bottom line.

Eets ohll abawt dee mahny, neh?

atmarcella
09-28-2007, 21:50
Originally posted by boni
Actually this what I like and I want it no other way. Masakit sa mata pag may nakita ako isang foreign national na bumibitbit ng baril dito sa lupang kinalakihan ko. So far wla pa naman. Sorry sa matamaan but this is a privilege sa pinas and firearms here are not for everybody. By the way, same page you say? How can we be in the same page eh you discriminate against Filipinos? Going in or out of the Phils. for you is as easy as going to your next door neighbor while ang kawawang pinoy eh ginagago nyo d ba? International Reciprocity? You take advantage of the filipinos tapos reciprocity? Hayop! San ka ba para makatay ka. Wla nga kayo baril yet you act as if you own our country? How much more pag may mga baril na kayo. Iíll fight to the death para hindi kayo bigyan ng privilege given only to Filipinos. Ito lng para sakin yung lamang kami sa inyo. Ayaw ko na ipamahagi pa ito.



Surely if you can afford to go to the Phils. then surely you can afford the talent fee of a Filipino who is allowed to carry d ba? at By the way, kung sino ka man foreigner at hindi mo ma gets sinabi ko cguro naman you can be resourceful enough to get an interpreter. Bahala na ma ban dito, gun ban naman bukas wla na akong pakialam. Basta ako ang para sa Pilipino dapat sa Pilipino lng.


pare...puso mo...:supergrin:

colt4ever
10-01-2007, 00:24
Thank sir vega for the clarification. Nabuhayan ako ng loob to acquire FA here in CA. I'll try to talk with the gunstore (that's second ammendment sports, Bakersfield, CA , about 35 miles from me) and if, still, they would not listen, i would go to to ten percent gunstore. thanks din kay sir sweater for the input. i really appreciate it.

boni
10-01-2007, 08:31
Originally posted by isuzu
There is a foreigner in Bacolod who is married to a Filipina. He put up a security agency so that he could have firearms.:) and where is he now? where is his security agency now? and where is his firearms now? that is the right question.

atmarcella
10-01-2007, 08:37
everybody has the right to defend themselves... even foreigners:upeyes:

pasalamat nga tayo dito cla tumira eh marami din cla natutulongan sa impoverished country na to:bringiton:

superman79
10-01-2007, 09:51
[QUOTE]Originally posted by horge
The short answer is hypocrisy.

:)
If (a big if) it adheres to the principle of reciprocity, then
the Philippines SHOULD extend the same freedoms to Americans as
America extends to the Philippines' own, but only within the
bounds of Philippine law.

[b]Should foreigners be allowed to keep/carry here?
If they'd be required to buy/rent from Philippine outfits, why not?
Revenue generation is a good thing, and if it makes them more at ease
to visit more places here, and spend more of their tourist thalers,
then I'm happy for the locals. I'd limit the privilege to those
countries who are KBA friendly to Filipinos (primarily the US, IOW)

Good answer..:) Too bad a lot of people dont think like you.

vega
10-01-2007, 19:14
Originally posted by colt4ever
Thank sir vega for the clarification. Nabuhayan ako ng loob to acquire FA here in CA. I'll try to talk with the gunstore (that's second ammendment sports, Bakersfield, CA , about 35 miles from me) and if, still, they would not listen, i would go to to ten percent gunstore. thanks din kay sir sweater for the input. i really appreciate it.
Forget 2nd Ammendment, I just talked with Alex who talked with his General Manager. They will do it if you have all the necessary requirements plus hunting license, and letters from Phil and US embassies. The letters you don't need, it is not stated in the law. Look for another gun store who are more kowledgeable. They probably have not done it yet and trying to CYA.

As of writing, I'm waiting for Alex's phone call so I would know what the letters should contain. I told him that it is not written anywhere on DOJ nor ATF website. I just hate people making up laws. I advised him to call DOJ and ATF so they can verify. Not Alex's fault though.

You should get your hunting permit now, it takes time to review.

ETA - Alex called within 20 minutes and he will ask Keith tomorrow, I believe Keith is the most knowledgeable person in the store when it comes to FA. Alex will also call DOJ tomorrow to set things straight. If ever, you will be the first non-citizen who they will sell a firearm.

Good luck.

vega
10-02-2007, 23:27
Hey colt4ever,

I talked with Alex this afternoon, looks like they will change the company policy within this week. It seems you would be able to get your firearm. Give them a call on Thursday and look for Keith, asst. gen. manager. Alex will go on leave tomorrow.

Remember, you need to get your hunting license ASAP.