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California Jack
09-27-2007, 20:31
An IF interview /article.
http://www.fatlosstroubleshoot.com/if.html


A forum for IFers. http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

Todd@CIS
09-27-2007, 20:41
CalJack, what are your thoughts on the Warrior Diet?

California Jack
09-27-2007, 20:51
Man, you're asking the wrong guy. I'm in my infancy with new old school diets. Hopefully DBradD and TurboRocket will show up and chime in. They are much more informed in the nutrition area than I am.

To show my ignorance, is the Warrior Diet sort of an IF plan with a small cheat snack in the morning?

And welcome to the H&F Todd. Please stick around and post here. Despite anything you may have heard, we are an OK bunch. Well, most of us.

Jack

DBradD
09-28-2007, 00:12
[ Edit: Sorry for the long post. I just typed everything I know about IF and TWD!! ]

Wow, great links and a lot to read. Thank you very much. Makes me want to get back on the IF bandwagon. I've been eating strict Zone/Paleo 3 meals + 2 snacks for a little while now. As has happened in the past, I'm getting bored with that quickly. Pretty much amounts to "worrying about food all day" to me.

I read almost all of the Berkhan interview. His approach to IF is very similar to what I tried to do with regard to pre- and post-WO meals the first time I tried IF. I tried working out fasted, but found that to be unbearably miserable. I think my energy was about as good, but I was very unhappy about it! The most success I had was when I ate maybe 500 calories at the first of the feeding period, waited about 2.5-3 hours, worked out, then ate everything else post-WO. I really think my recovery was noticeably better.

I agree totally with his assertion that frequent grazing just makes hunger worse. That was one of the appeals of IF for me. With grazing, one NEVER gets to be satisfied. The main appeal was convenience, which he notes. It's a pain to eat all day.

As for The Warrior Diet, I also have limited understanding of it and have not read the book. From what I found on various boards, I think Jack's description is about right. Eat almost all food during a 4 hour window at night. Minimal snacking is permitted during the day. I did this for 2.5 weeks a while back. I ate about 350-400 calories, about equal parts protein and carbs before about 6pm, then ate everything else to about 1800-2000 calories, all Paleo Diet food. I REALLY enjoyed the efficiency of not having to stop to eat all day. It was like being given an hour or two extra during the workday.

I experienced several problems that I have never read anywhere else--maybe I'm just weird.

First was that I felt dehydrated regardless of how much water I put down. I woke up through the nights several times to get water. Even so, my urine was fairly dark pretty much all day and night.

A meal that's very satisfying to me, but not overly so, is about 800-900 calories. Eating 1400-1500 calories in a 4 hour block was fun at first, but got kinda old. I remember one day in particular. To get my protein for that day, I cooked up 1.25 lb of sirloin. That's freakin' 20 ounces! Not a lot of fun to eat, plus veggies, etc., in a couple of big chunks 2-3 hours apart.

I never experienced any enhanced mental clarity or alertness that IFers often talk about. I actually felt a little mentally weak and uncreative during most of the work days. My enthusiasm at first allowed me to look over it, but after a week or so, it became clearer. I caught myself trying to come up with easier filler tasks during the afternoon, with the idea of doing the harder stuff after I'd eaten, which leads to the next item. During the day, there were several times when I felt like taking a nap during the afternoon. I think that was psychological--wanting to not experience the most miserable part of the underfeeding window.

I had the opposite reaction wrt sleep and relaxation as proposed by TWD fellow (forgot his name). Supposedly, one will kick into relaxation and recuperation mode after eating that huge evening meal. For me, it was the opposite--I'd get this HUGE shot of energy and want to work, workout, etc. I think I was almost pulling all-nighters (going to bed at 2-4am instead of my usual 12-1am) only to still have to get up at the same time.

The 4 hour block also makes it very hard to sandwich a workout in between two meals like I did with the previous plan that had a 6-7 hour window IIRC.

I *think* the little snacks during TWD might cause problems, but I'm not sure. After 2.5 weeks, I supposedly should've had zero trouble with hunger, lack of energy during fasting, etc., but that never came into reality. Four hours is a VERY short window, so the snacking borders on necessary for TWD both to help get to the evening and to cut down the amount of food needed during overfeeding, which leads to...

I also think that my high fruit intake might've made the transition harder. I probably at least half my carb calories from fruit. More veggies might've helped with any blood sugar issues.

Back to IF in general. TurboRocket eats during the afternoon, something like 3-8pm. I think that's probably a much better plan, and similar to Berkhan's. I might try the Berkhan 8 hour block, something like 2-10pm starting tomorrow. I think that would be pretty easy. Why does it have to hurt to be good?!

I think these plans have some really cool aspects, but I just haven't made them work out right yet.

Todd@CIS
09-28-2007, 18:39
Thanks guys.

TurboRocket
10-01-2007, 15:27
I haven't read any of CJ's links yet, nor have I read TWD... from the little that I know about TWD, I assume it is essentially eating a Paleo diet while on a schedule similar to IF. As DBrad mentioned, that is what I follow. Have been following this for a good few months and it's still working out great.

I usually eat 3-8 p.m. each day. I am not overly stringent about this, however. Sometimes I start eating at 1 pm, and occasionally I eat past 10 pm. On weekends, I may go to brunch at 11 am once in a while.

The great thing about following this regimen is that it makes nutrition ultra easy, at least for me. The only things I buy at the grocery are Paleo foods (with very minor exceptions like salt, etc.). When it's time to eat, I just eat whatever amount I need to keep my stomach satisfied. Lately, it's been averaging 1.75 lbs. of meats a day, and about the same in veggies, and then whatever fruits and nuts in the house.

I feel no ill effects when I am fasting, but I do admit that I somewhat savor my feeding windows.

DBradD
10-01-2007, 17:11
I've been reading the Performance Menu IF forum quite a bit since the link was posted. Some great stuff there!

Below is my favorite thread there so far. It's about Alan Aragon's take on IF. I'd read that before on his site. Aragon seems to be a smart guy, but seems a little bent against IF.

http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1453

As for TWD, as I understand it, it's IF except a little food is allowed during the day, perhaps 2-3 small snacks of protein+carbs. He is stringent on the idea that the feeding window must be 4 hours long at the end of the day. He also recommends some specific order of the food being eaten during the overfeeding window. He says to stop eating when thirst becomes very pronounced.

TR, do you have any issues with hydration? I swear, I feel dehydrated all the time when I IF. Ketosis perhaps? I don't even know if that makes sense.

TurboRocket
10-02-2007, 11:38
Originally posted by DBradD
...
TR, do you have any issues with hydration? I swear, I feel dehydrated all the time when I IF. Ketosis perhaps? I don't even know if that makes sense.

No, no problems with hydration. Although I do drink a lot of water - probably 1 - 1.5 gallons a day, depending on the intensity of the workouts that day.

Do you drink tea at all? I've read that tea helps your cells hydrate better than straight water. When I have a batch brewed, I drink about a quart of black or green tea a day. I drink it straight, unsweetened. The amount of tea and water I drink offsets any diarrhetic effect of the caffeine (I think).

DBradD
10-02-2007, 14:42
I drink some green tea, probably about 30 oz per day, along with about 100-150 oz of water. I would've thought that would be enough.

I've also noticed that I drop weight in a hurry when I IF. If I were after weight loss, that'd be my plan! The last time I IFed, I think I started at 184 at the start of the first day and was a hair under 180 two mornings later. I eat somewhere around 2000 calories. The last time I tried to restart IF, I actually ate just about as much as I possibly could in 8 hours.

Even so, my biggest problem with IF is that I just don't feel creative and focused during some of the days. Not sure if this means my diet isn't solid enough or what. These days seem to coincide with miserable work tasks, so it may be that being hungry is just the straw that broke the camel's back. I've read that some people take 2-3 weeks to start feeling good again, but I just don't have that kind of time with my fellowship ticking down, etc.

California Jack
10-03-2007, 22:31
Even so, my biggest problem with IF is that I just don't feel creative Are you sure it has to do more with IF than the fact that you are an engineer?

DBradD
10-03-2007, 23:20
LOL, relative to my usual level...

TurboRocket
10-03-2007, 23:34
You could always try to use one of your classic graphing HP calculators as an etch-a-sketch to bring out that creative side :supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

DBradD
10-04-2007, 00:02
Good idea, but too late. I just sold my new HP50g and my advising professor has borrowed my 48G. I really like my new HP35s because I set a new speed PR with my benchmark equation using it, so am taking the "Beware the man with one calculator..." approach. :rofl:

http://mikemander.servehttp.com:8008/sublime_new/hp35s/

I gave up trying to figure out how to write a workout timer for the 50g. Now that would be a weird cross between workout fanatic and uber-nerd.

Hey, where are you in Ohio, if you don't mind me asking? I have an interview at OU near the end of October. Any idea what Athens is like? Sounds like a tiny place. I read that it's one of the most haunted towns also. If I take the job there and then stop posting here, you'll know what happened--sucked through a portal into another dimension or something.

TurboRocket
10-04-2007, 01:01
I glazed over at "HP50g" :tongueout:

OU? Cool. Athens is a small, quaint college town. OU is about 18,000 strong, I think. Beautiful terrain, pretty students from what I remember (may or may not matter to you), nice campus, and famous (or infamous, depending on how you look at it) Halloween bashes. Don't know anything about the hauntings, tho. Probably 1 hour from Parkersburg, WV, 1.75 hours from Columbus, OH. I'm just outside of Columbus, BTW. OH has reasonable CCW (not that you can carry on campus, tho) and is Class III friendly, in case that matters.