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crazypilot
10-02-2007, 13:47
How many of you Airmen have been able to get a complete ABU set? I'm still missing boots and the tan belt. What's your opinion about them?

AFshooter
10-07-2007, 22:35
I don't wear BDUs so I may not get the ABU for a while. If I do I will be buying some tan boots from the local surplus store (cheaper) since they are also allowed until the foliage green phase in date. I am also going to buy a Wilderness Instructor belt instead of the ABU one (which sucks BTW, I looked at them). My MCSS doesn't have the ABUs but the Surplus Store has the Proppers. No matter what they say, they ARE the same as sold in the MCSS. Look up the AAFES contract and it's Propper!

I have seen a few people wearing green boots in flight suits but I have seen no guidelines about this. In that case I would like to start wearing the tan shirt w/ my flight suit. I only saw one O wearing the tan and it was a LtCol.

I think they look good. The lightest color is more of a tan which I think is an improvement over the ACU with the grey tones.

I still think they should have gone with MultiCam.:thumbsup:

eodcole
10-15-2007, 09:16
Who cares about the pattern. It's not going to camo against anything. I think they're entirely too thick. If you look at the uniform it's the same damn thing as the BDUs cept it has a gay pattern/colors and it's THICKER than the "winter weight" cammies. The "WAR FIGHTERS" is who they say this uniform was built for and well NONE of them want it, EOD included! It'll be great for someone sitting in an office with air conditioning. The fabric will more easily show stains from grease and grime(sorry flight line guys). The will be more likely to stain too(again sorry flight line guys). Everything about it just doesn't seem practical.

http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm

Below is an excerpt from the manufacturer's site linked above.

"Airman Battle Uniform, an advanced BATTLE uniform?

Note to the ranks: When we started the uniform project in 2002, USAF Leadership informed us that 97% of AF personnel did not need a Battle uniform but rather a barracks utility work uniform. Leadership ultimately received exactly what they asked for. The resulting uniform is that barracks utility work uniform.

The name actually does apply if one takes into consideration the Battle activity that USAF Leadership says is the mission of the majority of today's Air Force. As determined by USAF Leadership, advanced Battle features like easy entry slanted chest, arm, and leg cargo pockets, elbow and knee padding pockets, improved neck closure to keep debris out and to protect from body armor, gusseted shoulders for ease of movement, and most importantly... an authentic Battle ready advanced pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway are not needed for the 21st century U.S. Air Force.

Besides making the connection between the Air Force and the pattern; why is blue one of the pattern colors? Besides the sky or ocean, how often does the color blue occur in deserts, forests, jungles, or urban settings? This uniform does not seem to fit the definition of an advanced Battle uniform. This is evidently a new style of Battle uniform.

We're sorry. We wished we had the opportunity to give you an authentic Battle uniform with all the relevant features plus an effective camouflage design. At the very least you could have had a uniform with a State-of-the-Art pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway.

The men and women of the Air Force have our undying support for the difficult jobs that are performed for our country. Is this new adopted camouflage and uniform design an Airman Battle Uniform or an Airman Barracks Uniform? Maybe it's just according to your own definition. Judge for yourself."

I know that the USAF leadership wasn't happy when that came out. It's getting shoved down everyone's throats like it's gods gift to combat because they already wasted too much money on it.

:upeyes:

dewidmt
10-18-2007, 16:57
Wow, I remember the stink when we changed from our "pickle" uniforms to those "brand new" BDU's! Of course, most of us bought our own long before they were available in the BX or military clothing.
I guess the Air Force just didn't want the Army pattern, don't know why, we've been wearing it for something like 23 years now. Oh well, just gotta be different I guess and use up a lotta taxpayer money!
Whenever anyone is promoted to a slot in AF leadership, the first thing they do is "change" something. Just to make a name for themselves and have something to put on that next efficiency report!
Glad I'm out, retired in 04.....

MrMurphy
10-23-2007, 02:07
The pattern actually disappears well enough at night out here in the desert, though daytime, similar to the ACU, it doesn't do too well until you're at a distance. In urban terrain, like ACUs it probably breaks up better.

Several of our people have them now, the rest of us are in DCUs.

crazypilot
10-23-2007, 02:43
The pattern actually disappears well enough at night out here in the desert, though daytime, similar to the ACU, it doesn't do too well until you're at a distance. In urban terrain, like ACUs it probably breaks up better.

Several of our people have them now, the rest of us are in DCUs.


Sounds like you're out there now. Good luck and Take care.

MrMurphy
11-02-2007, 18:04
Yes, I am.

deadday
11-02-2007, 19:36
There's no velcro on these is there? I haven't seen any enlisted folk around here wearing them, so I haven't been able to talk with anyone about them. They seem to be as useless as the ACUs, and the boots are just rediculous. You know it is bad when the manufacturer releases an appology with the product..


drew

crazypilot
11-02-2007, 20:26
No there's no velcro. I've been wearing them for a month now and all I can say is the people from the uniform board need to get fired. I'm in maintenance and it is really hard to keep them clean. I don't have coveralls since our shop doesn't have money (go figure). When the oil drips on the boots, it is not coming off. However, fuel dries up quick. I can't wait until they start issuing the boots so I can use the messed up boots for work and keep the clean ones in the car.

deadday
11-02-2007, 20:27
Same problem with the ACUs and the tan boots....Get oil or grease on them, and they're done...Hell, with the BDUs, a grease or oil stain just looked like more cammo...



drew

P991911
11-03-2007, 18:36
All I got to say about the ABUs are OMFG LOL.

najaboy
11-03-2007, 19:32
Just to clarify, Tiger Stripe Products is not the manufacturer of the ABU- they were the designers. The manufacturer of the issued ABU is Propper International.

"Licensed" commercial versions of the ABU are manufactured by Propper International, American Apparel, Bethel Industries, National Industries for the Blind, National Industries for the Severely Handicapped, and Tama Manufacturing.

use2b6L32
11-04-2007, 01:42
The ABU (should be AFUBU) is/was a solution looking for a problem.

These things are virtually no improvement over what the AF already had.

News Flash: no one else is using DCU's or Woodland BDU's anymore! so by default, the AF is unique. The other branches have their own pattern of utility uniform now.

The AF would rather spend money on a new and unimproved uniform than retain good people.

No wonder the AF is the laughing stock of the DOD.

Sad...

P991911
11-04-2007, 14:13
Just to clarify, Tiger Stripe Products is not the manufacturer of the ABU- they were the designers. The manufacturer of the issued ABU is Propper International.

"Licensed" commercial versions of the ABU are manufactured by Propper International, American Apparel, Bethel Industries, National Industries for the Blind, National Industries for the Severely Handicapped, and Tama Manufacturing.

National Industies for the Blind? LOL now it makes sense.

deadday
11-04-2007, 14:22
National Industies for the Blind? LOL now it makes sense.

Bwahahahahahahahaha....Yeah, I love getting new uniforms with inspections stickers from blind people or prison inmates....



drew

MrMurphy
11-04-2007, 21:07
The lack of starching and ironing and polishing EVERY DANG DAY (Security Forces, we have to look good) is the ONLY good thing coming out of this.

slaytera666
11-04-2007, 23:44
The lack of starching and ironing and polishing EVERY DANG DAY (Security Forces, we have to look good) is the ONLY good thing coming out of this.

God, you are such a tool.

deadday
11-05-2007, 06:09
LMFAO! That is about the only plus we could come up with for ACUs/Tan boots. It was a great change of pace in Korea because 2ID was mirror shines and razor creases...Kinda hard to maintain in the motorpool..


drew

srfl
11-05-2007, 06:41
I plan on still wearing my DCUs until the mandatory replacement date.

MrMurphy
11-06-2007, 00:07
Yeah having a perfect shine and razor sharp creases, to then go sit in a Humvee in body armor and a helmet for 8-16 hours where absolutely NO ONE will see you always made perfect sense....

Or on the gates, where nobody notices, or cares (hell, they barely notice you're armed)..

The no shine, no crease thing is the only improvement. In most other ways, the ABU is a waste of time (too hot, pockets are STILL not in a useful location) although the pattern isn't as bad as we thought it'd be over here in the sand, just depends if you're trying to hide on top of a sand dune with no other cover or not. :)

The guys and girls who have them are not overly thrilled with them, it's more of a "well, they're here, get it over with" reaction. The "Baby Crap Green" boots are still not fancied.

deadday
11-06-2007, 09:57
Oh, I think it is absolutely necessary for the first impression of the Post/Unit to be creased and shined (in a GARRISON environment).



drew

MrMurphy
11-06-2007, 10:07
In a BATTLEDRESS uniform?

You want shiny, wear your blues. And don't even get me started on cops wearing blues as a duty uniform.

deadday
11-06-2007, 10:10
Battle Dress is what they've been called since Jesus was a private, does that mean they are only worn in battle? Point is, when you are representing your unit, your command, your post, then looking pressed and polished is great. When PMCSing your vehicles in the motorpool, or sweating it on the FOB, it's pointless.



drew

MrMurphy
11-06-2007, 23:53
Yeah, well having to look pressed and polished working a LE post is fine. however i work 99.55 security where absolutely no one but the bunnies will see us, and running and diving into grass for cover, etc and crawling up/down ladders, in and out of hatches, etc is normal daily business. Having to shine and press for that is just dumb. Having no-shine boots and a permanent press uniform makes much more sense. This is not a new idea, no-shine boots predate WW2 in U.S service.

MarcD
11-11-2007, 07:56
Iv'e been wearing them for about a month. They are heavy, I cut out the inside pockets and now they feel better. Also, as you wash them they seem to loosen up. I went back to a pair of starched BDU's the other day and they drove me crazy being so stiff!!!! I just wish the material was like the Army's. Rumor her in DC is that lightweight ACUs are in the making!

MrMurphy
11-11-2007, 09:47
AF times said a while back, no interior pocket tops in a lighter weight material are on the way, since apparently several thousand people had to tell them what the testers told them in the first place.

Bevo1
11-11-2007, 10:10
Yeah, well having to look pressed and polished working a LE post is fine. however i work 99.55 security where absolutely no one but the bunnies will see us, and running and diving into grass for cover, etc and crawling up/down ladders, in and out of hatches, etc is normal daily business. Having to shine and press for that is just dumb. Having no-shine boots and a permanent press uniform makes much more sense. This is not a new idea, no-shine boots predate WW2 in U.S service.
Dang that brought back some memories. I remember spending a ridiculous amount of time ironing and shining for guardmount, then as soon as I got on post, they would issue an exercise. I finally learned about cheating (elmers glue and leather luster), then got smart and started bringing an extra pair of boots to use after guardmount, to finally getting extremely smart and getting out all together and starting my LE career.

I was at a nuke base and most of my 4 years was spent preparing for the worst. We had exercises daily. I HATED it. Then, about 3 years after I got out, my SWAT team had a competition at my old base. Our local SWAT team versus the newly formed Security Forces. I was extremely impressed and proud to say that I used to be in that unit.



They (SF) made us look bad

MrMurphy
11-11-2007, 11:39
I'm "old school" I guess, I don't leatherluster boots. However they are polished well enough I only touch them up every other day sometimes. New freshly starched uniform every day though. Not a scumbag. The whole bootswap thing never did much for me.

eodcole
11-11-2007, 11:51
I'm one of those people that refuses to startch my uniform. I follow the laundering and care directions for the BDUs. If somoene wants to judge me and call me a "scumbag" because my uniform top doesn't stand up on it's own can eat a fat f-ing dick. I like the fact that the new uniform is permanent press and no shine boots. It's just to bad that they went the wrong way about doing it. Someone just had too much pride in their idea when it came to uniform design. Now we're having to deal with it. Well I will leave myself out of it because I won't have to deal with it since I have 11 months left. :dancingbanana:

deadday
11-11-2007, 12:09
Lightweight hell, I want to some winterweight.....Nattick is forgetting that while we go have a good deal of troops in the ME, we still hold Germany, S Korea, Alaska....Hah...



drew

crazypilot
11-11-2007, 12:27
Yeah I've spent countless hours shining boots.

MrMurphy
11-11-2007, 15:40
If I could never starch BDUs, I would ( I don't agree with it either) but for cops, a scumbag (to me) is the guy who shows up looking like he slept in his uniform, and it's noticeably the same uniform four days in a row, even in 90 degree plus heat wearing body armor, his beret looks all ate up and he tries to wear Goretex on a hot sunny day without a cloud in the sky to avoid people noticing how crappy he looks.

ABUs are heavier than winterweights. And there is no other option.

MozambiqueDrill
11-12-2007, 01:22
ABUs are perfect for "today's" Air Force! The pencil pushers who are running the show have no clue. If one dresses like a warrior, they are more likely to behave like a warrior. For those who served in the AF in a combat related role, you know what I mean. It is an embarrassment!! I am glad to be retired. The AF has become so "politically correct" that it now reflects in the uniform.

Those in combat roles (CCT, SS, M-TACS, PJ...), I can just see them wearing the new ABUs. The guys who taught me were the last of the Vietnam generation where "whatever it takes" was the motto. They would be livid to see what the AF has become. I'm disgusted, sorry for the rant.

BTW...as for a starched uniform and shined boots... flashback to 1990... just returned from a week long mission (Pacific Air Force), hopped into Clark AB, Philippines... BDUs slightly torn and certainly worn from the field, pockets unfolded where the extra gear and mags were stuffed, boots the same... standing in line at the BX to exchange dollars for pesos to hit the town later that night... light bird behind me couldn't stand the sight of a "real" battle dress uniform... he kept to himself when he realized which unit I was with...

MarcD
11-12-2007, 15:27
ABUs are perfect for "today's" Air Force! The pencil pushers who are running the show have no clue. If one dresses like a warrior, they are more likely to behave like a warrior. For those who served in the AF in a combat related role, you know what I mean. It is an embarrassment!! I am glad to be retired. The AF has become so "politically correct" that it now reflects in the uniform.

Those in combat roles (CCT, SS, M-TACS, PJ...), I can just see them wearing the new ABUs. The guys who taught me were the last of the Vietnam generation where "whatever it takes" was the motto. They would be livid to see what the AF has become. I'm disgusted, sorry for the rant.

BTW...as for a starched uniform and shined boots... flashback to 1990... just returned from a week long mission (Pacific Air Force), hopped into Clark AB, Philippines... BDUs slightly torn and certainly worn from the field, pockets unfolded where the extra gear and mags were stuffed, boots the same... standing in line at the BX to exchange dollars for pesos to hit the town later that night... light bird behind me couldn't stand the sight of a "real" battle dress uniform... he kept to himself when he realized which unit I was with...

lol..."today's" AF is doing more "combat roles" then you ever thought of. You go on and be embarrassed and the AF will be better without you prima donnas. HAPPY RETIREMENT ( If you really made it till then)!!!! 1 more brown shoe gone!!!! don't look back we sure won't look to you!!

MrMurphy
11-12-2007, 16:07
Many of them are, but the pocket-sewn-down-starched-to-kill people are still around.


They just generally keep their mouths shut around the people who've been deployed for ILO missions etc (right when i came in, i played opfor for some guys going out to run convoys for the army. All maintainers. They came back with a definite respect for the army and security forces after that deployment)

We still have idiots, like one SSgt who told me (Security Forces) I should be wearing a reflective belt (ON DUTY, and ARMED) because he is blind and even with his high beams on (thanks for blinding me) the idiot barely saw me standing in the middle of an ECP waving him down coming onto a ramp. I just stared at him for his inane comment. He came back later and apologized actually (surprised the hell out of us standing there).

crazypilot
11-12-2007, 17:22
Hey come on now, I'm a maintainer. I already have respect for you guys that are always deployed, we usually just go TDY. I like my uniform to look neat, clean and pressed and boots shined. If you're not deployed, then there was no reason why your uniform should look like crap. Those are some of the reasons why I quickly picked the ABUs. No shining boots and wash and wear. Although I respect everyone's opinion I cannot stand when people think the Air Force is a joke. It is interesting to hear when people in the other services have had to call in the AF for air support or other reasons. I bet a lot of people will not talk about that. However, for those that have served, I thank you and I understand your gripes but think about the other Airmen that are actually serving for their country and not just for college. I'll save that gripe for those that decide to get in because they are just power hungry. We do have some idiots in the AF though. I just wish the Air Force would provide us with Army or Marine training so that we can help them in their combat roles.

najaboy
11-12-2007, 18:23
Many of them are, but the pocket-sewn-down-starched-to-kill people are still around.


They just generally keep their mouths shut around the people who've been deployed for ILO missions etc (right when i came in, i played opfor for some guys going out to run convoys for the army. All maintainers. They came back with a definite respect for the army and security forces after that deployment)

We still have idiots, like one SSgt who told me (Security Forces) I should be wearing a reflective belt (ON DUTY, and ARMED) because he is blind and even with his high beams on (thanks for blinding me) the idiot barely saw me standing in the middle of an ECP waving him down coming onto a ramp. I just stared at him for his inane comment. He came back later and apologized actually (surprised the hell out of us standing there).

Actually, the reflective belt or vest requirement would still be applicable. While mandating wear of the reflective belt or vest is at the discretion of the installation commander, most follow the same basic template for their Wing OI. It generally reads something to the effect of, "During the hours of darkness, or during periods of reduced visibility, all military personnel assigned to _______ will wear reflective belts or vests when outdoors while in uniform or exercising." I've seen this in CONUS, OCONUS, and CENTCOM.

Sam White
11-12-2007, 18:33
Any of the deployed airmen I've talked to have all said the same as najaboy re: reflective belts regardless of location.

In my duty position I run into people from lots of career fields, including security forces. I haven't run into many who had an attitude toward security forces and most respect the fact that security forces deploy longer and more frequently than the rest of us. This is especially the case in an ANG wing where most security forces airmen deploy voluntarily.

deadday
11-12-2007, 18:36
Just wait till you are PCI'ing for a night cordon, and some fresh butter-bar decides your squad should be wearing reflective belts/vests so you don't get hit by a car..Because the bullet would feel oh so much better...... *bangs head on table*



drew

MrMurphy
11-12-2007, 20:25
The rule for security forces=you are armed, no reflective belt. Period. And this has apparently (except for a few moronic occasions) been the case for everyone i've served with, including a couple 20+ year masters and SMSgts.

I've been lucky with my LT and CPTs in that they tend to shut up and listen to the SNCOs or have enough brains on their own.

As i told a medical captain who said I should be wearing a reflective belt (in full battlegear, under a streetlight, in her headlights, while blocking a road) 'ma'am I'd rather possibly get hit by you than definitely get shot by them'. That was during an exercise so i tactfully did not add my overwatch would have mowed her down if she hit me.


In my units we generally get along well with the maintainers, we know they work hard (we watch them work most of the time) and they get along well with us. Like a maintainer TSgt told me the other day, they work their butts off, but they would never, ever switch jobs with us, because while we do sit around a lot, the times we are NOT sitting around is not something they want to deal with. :)

i generally joke with some of the maintainers on one post I stand that has a thermal camera cause they say "what you been up to" and I reply "sitting here with the thermal cam watching you scratch your nuts in the dark and pretend to work". They always get a laugh out of that one, cause i'm not kidding.....

crazypilot
11-12-2007, 20:28
The rule for security forces=you are armed, no reflective belt. Period. And this has apparently (except for a few moronic occasions) been the case for everyone i've served with, including a couple 20+ year masters and SMSgts.

I've been lucky with my LT and CPTs in that they tend to shut up and listen to the SNCOs or have enough brains on their own.

As i told a medical captain who said I should be wearing a reflective belt (in full battlegear, under a streetlight, in her headlights, while blocking a road) 'ma'am I'd rather possibly get hit by you than definitely get shot by them'. That was during an exercise so i tactfully did not add my overwatch would have mowed her down if she hit me.
LOL.
I agree. I'd rather not get shot.

Morris
11-17-2007, 00:38
The ABUs are a phenominal waste of money. There. I said it. Sue me for 10 years of uniform shenanigans and the McPeak years (Good Goddess, if I ever meet the man, I'll scratch him enough cits to cost his a month's salary). I started pickle suits, ended Woodies. Lived through starch downs and sew downs (CATM) and beat to hell crawling over the rocks (TACP).

The reason why the Woodies were initiated among all the services was to simplify the log train and save the taxpayer (you and me Airman Skippy) some money. Who in tarnation decided they needed to be special so they had their own digital design?

Doesn't matter whether you are a wrench turner or a tip of the spear type (sorry skycops, your not quite there but will be someday - maybe), you need a uniform that will be durable, comfortable in all types of weather and is not costing an arm and leg.

Goddess help my beloved Air Force. Oooh, anyone remember the leather name tag on the BDU days? :)

MrMurphy
11-18-2007, 00:09
The Marines started the revolution to avoid the cost/care of starching/pressing/shining (wasting Marines time and money) on a field uniform. The Army saw the light, and aside from the pattern,actually didn't come off too bad. The AF had to screw it up. At least the Navy has a valid reason (simplify the number of uniforms since nobody uses half the ones they get issued anyways, and hide stains better i.e keep the uniform serviceable longer).

deadday
11-18-2007, 07:51
The Marines started the revolution to avoid the cost/care of starching/pressing/shining (wasting Marines time and money) on a field uniform. The Army saw the light, and aside from the pattern,actually didn't come off too bad. The AF had to screw it up. At least the Navy has a valid reason (simplify the number of uniforms since nobody uses half the ones they get issued anyways, and hide stains better i.e keep the uniform serviceable longer).

MarPat started with the Army and was rejected (because ACU is soooo much better </sarcasm>)..


drew

coastalcop
11-20-2007, 00:21
Goddess help my beloved Air Force. Oooh, anyone remember the leather name tag on the BDU days? :)[/QUOTE]



AHHHH the dreaded " pinger patch" then followed by "Im not getting enough salutes cause they cant read the little tiny rank id so lets put it back on the sleeve and collar time" to back to tapes and stripes, then to two types of stripes and the phasing out of Sgt. , Yep i remember them.

ks farmboy
11-20-2007, 01:35
i work on the flightline on F-15C-D, and what i have found out is they are hot as hell, and stain very easily. my boots have big drops of hydraulic fluid on them and my first shirt was ruined the first week i wore it because of an oil leak. i hate them.

MDLibertarian
11-25-2007, 19:13
I think you guys will like this. It's a rather funny spoof of the whole "battlefield Airmen" concept that's posted on Chairforce.com. You'll need either PowerPoint or the PowerPoint viewer to see it.

http://chairforce.com/fun/files/battlefield-airman.ppt

I've seen a few folks wearing them where I work at Fort Meade, MD, and all I can say is they just don't look right. I work with a few retired AF MSgts who all say they're glad they retired before having to wear these newfangled uniforms and that most of them would rather go back to the old "pickle suits."

packinheavy
11-26-2007, 18:45
I can't believe so many people ran out to buy them like they were the best thing since sliced bread. Bear in mind I am guard, so they will be issued to me eventually. I may buy one before then, but not two or three sets just because I want to fit in with the newest "fashion" statement.

brianbat420
11-29-2007, 21:50
They are very heavy and hot. I am in NM so it is pretty hot here and you dont need any more heat in the summers.

I still cant believe they went with what they did. There are so many better designs and patterns out there Why oh Why couldnt we just get the Army's or Marine's in a different color.

MrMurphy
11-30-2007, 02:23
They keep getting annoyed we get confused with the Army.

Hell, over here I've seen a Army guy in ACUs and a dude in ABUs and almost couldn't tell the difference past 10 feet (stripes on arm being giveaway), so the point was....?

I agree on the hotness. When I arrived it was 130 F at 7am. Now it's fairly cold but the ABU wearers still agree they're too thick.

Sam White
12-03-2007, 19:42
It is hard to tell the uniforms apart at a distance. Stripes on the sleeves are a giveaway; I look for the green boots too.

I haven't seen many people on base going out to buy them yet. I'm going to get them when I deploy, so I'm not going to buy them.

Just a case of "me, too," IMO.