View Full Version : G38 or G39
Thx-1138
10-18-2007, 13:37
I'm up for buying a new carry weapon.
My only current pistol is a 1st-Gen G17. I've carried used that in a standard Glock Sport/Combat Holster, and that's taught me two things.
First, I need a better holster. (Yes, I already have a good gun belt).
Second, I want a smaller gun for daily carry.
I'm pretty much sold on Glocks, and I'm leaning very heavily toward the GAP. This would be for daily carry, and might end up being my Home Defense gun if my wife convinces me to sell the G17 to cover the cost of my new toy.
The question is, get a G38, or a G39?
Anybody have both, and would like to share your opinion?
Anybody have experience with the G39 and Pierce Grip Extensions? How sturdy are they? I was thinking I could use a standard mag for carry with light clothes (with an extended mag for reloading, and extended mags when I have better concealment (e.g. in colder weather).
Sadly, I can't get both a G38 and G39 (or a G37 and G39, or any combination thereof). I need to have money left over for accessories and range time.
gary newport
10-18-2007, 13:57
I like the G38 for all-around use. The G39 is a bit small, but Pearce mag extensions (they seem sturdy to me) help. I have a Kramer #3 IWB holster in horsehide that does an excellent job of concealing my G38. I'd only be interested in carrying a G39 in the "appendix" position, where the shorter barrel would be more comfortable.
Althought the G39 is on my Christmas list, the G38 is my favorite. It is suitable for concealment, target shooting and competition. It carries very well in a quality OWB or IWB holster. I prefer the products available at www.blade-tech.com
I would take the G38 over the 39 for your stated purposes.
Gregw/aGlock
10-18-2007, 19:17
Can't speak for the G38 except to say that it is on my short list of future acquisitions.
However, I can say that I LOVE my G39 and carry it IWB routinely in a C-TAC slide at 4 o'clock position (right kidney carry?). I have absolutely no trouble concealing it with mag extensions no matter what season it is. It easily disappears under a t-shirt ( I'm 6'4", 218 lbs, and described by my doctor as "medium build".) That said, I should also say that I can easily conceal a G37 in the same rig anytime as well.
FWIW, I don't feel disadvantaged with "only" 7+1 rounds of 45 (Corbon Pow R Ball in winter, speer Gold Dots in summer). I feel that if I ever have to use all those rounds, the S has HTF and I've got bigger issues to deal with.
This platform cannot be beat for carry IMO.
http://media2.dropshots.com/photos/139603/20070222/183014.jpg
http://www.esrnet.com/lawman/Glock39/DSC06819.JPG
http://www.esrnet.com/lawman/Glock39/DSC06825.JPG
http://www.esrnet.com/lawman/Glock39/IMG_3930.JPG
http://www.esrnet.com/lawman/Glock39/IMG_3932.JPG
Thx-1138
10-18-2007, 21:14
I went to a local gun shop and tried out the fit of a sub-compact Glock they had (not a G39. Think it was a G26). I was very concerned about the feel of it with my pinky finger floating in space. To my pleasant surprise, it tucked quite naturally under the grip as if that was the way every gun should work.
Anyway, thanks for all of your input and gun pr0n. I'm getting excited already.
Glock3540
10-18-2007, 22:36
Hello All,
I just picked up a new G19 at a local gun show a few weeks ago and I love it. I have been interested in the .45GAP since it's introduction. I think it was a very good idea. I personally think it (The G38) is the best "looking" Glock, with the possible exception of the G34/35.
I live near an excellent gun shop/range and purchased several weapons there in the past few years. I inquired there about the .45GAP noticing they had none in their case, but had most all other Glock models. He said that they were not selling. He said he had a few and had to wholesale them just to move them. He didn't think the cartridge would last or at least not be very popular.
I'm not one to let anyone easily influence my decisions, but I did at least consider what he said. This weekend, I was in Indiana and stopped at a "local" gun shop that was highly regarded by the locals. He said basically the same thing. He said the .45GAP did not sell well and he didn't expect it to "be around very long".
While I was there, I noticed he had both a G21 and a G21SF. I asked if I could compare the two. The G21 was as I remembered, too large to feel comfortable in my hands (I'm appx 6'1", 225 lbs, linebacker build, but the weapon still feels too large for me). I then handled the G21SF and I actually could not help smiling. It may not seem that much smaller but it feels pretty good in the hand. The grip feels like about 1/2 way between the "normal" G21 and a G17/22. I do not really need another full size .45, but it made me wish for a G30SF, if one ever comes to market.
My point is, I would still prefer to have a G38 .45GAP over a .45ACP Glock of any kind, but I am concerned that ammo may not become common place enough for it to continue to be relatively inexpensive (or available).
I do not think that Gaston will ever discontinue the .45 GAP pistols. Heck, he still makes 10MM when most have given up on it. (I'm not sure but I think the only Glock models that are actually discontinued, are the G17L and the G24?) so I hope the GAPs are safe.
I know this is a GAP forum, and I come here to read almost daily, so I do not mean to offend anyone here. I'm just being honest.
I've carried a G27 daily for 10 years. I also own a G35 with a X200 attached, and my new G19. I've owned, or still own, most other brands but I LOVE GLOCKS! I would like to add a mid size .45 (GAP or maybe ACP) Glock to my collection and would like to know a little more of what you guys think.
Thanks in advance for your replys.
Brian
There are at least four State Police Agencies that have switched to .45GAP. That's twice as many as the .357Sig. None issue the 10mm and I know of none that issue the .45ACP. Every major US ammo manufacturer makes .45GAP ammo. Gun shops are the worse source for factual information.
Facts. I've owned more different Glocks than most folks will ever buy. The G37 and G38 are the two most accurate Glocks I've owned. As a result, I've sold my G21 and G30. I've sold all my 40's except my G24C. I've sold most of my 9's too. My list of owned/once owned Glocks include:
G17--Gen 2
G17--Gen 3
G17L-Gen 1
G17L-Gen 2
G19
G21
G22
G23
G24C
G26
G27
G30
G34
G37
G38
I have shot, but not owned, a G18, G20, G28, G29, G31, G32, G33, G36 and G39.
I have not shot a G25 or G21SF.
The folks that talk badly about a Glock chambered in GAP have never fired one. Keep that in mind. Gun shops stay in business by offering the post popular models. The narrow minded general public has been slow to embrace the GAP, so many gun shops avoid them. Try one amd make up your own mind.
I got the G38, which I love the most. I cannot, however, conceal the G38 on my person very well. What I do is carry it in a fanny pack.(not an unusual thing for a woman to wear a fanny pack anyway) I'm probably skinnier than most of you, so this may not be your issue.
But then I took a G39 away from my husband so that I would have something in GAP to wear in a bellyband. I like shooting the G39 almost as well as the G38 and I can conceal it better. It is a little bit thicker than my G27, so I have to wear fairly loose shirts over the top of it. I don't think it would be too much of a challenge for anyone just a bit bigger than me to conceal a G39. If I could choose only one carry gun it would be the G39.
There are times when my wardrobe isn't as easy to work with and I solve this by wearing the G27 or putting on the fanny pack with the G38 in it. But I do generally use the G39. I like having a gun in GAP on my person. I shoot GAP better than .40.
I'm probably skinnier than most of you...
Are you implying that we're fat?!!!!
Well, now that you mention it, I could stand to lose a few pounds. Hahahaha!!
Are you implying that we're fat?!!!!
Well, now that you mention it, I could stand to lose a few pounds. Hahahaha!!
Very funny! No, just saying that I am inherited the vertical build that doesn't seem to gain bulk very well. People used to ask me if I played basketball, but sports skill doesn't necessarily come with the build. Concealment is challenging.
In other words, you're not circumferentially challenged. Hahahhah!
I purchased a G19 & 26 this spring. My respect for the Glock increased and I soon decided I would purchase a .45 that actually worked(I've owned several v. unreliable Colt .45's in the past). As I began my study I quickly zeroed in on the 21SF and the G38. I was intrigued by the dimension comparison between the G19 & G38. Only the slide width of the 38 differs from the 19, other than that they are the same size.
I went to the local gunshops and received the same tired info. regarding the future life span of the Gap cartridge yadayadayada!
I read this site and took DannyR's advice to do your homework and decide for yourself.
The G38 is my favorite Glock to shoot bar none. I am building an ammo inventory and will reload making it very affordable to shoot. If you get the chance to shoot one please do so, you won't be sorry you did.
jpcast
I did my part to keep the GAP going. I got the G39
Reloading seems to be the key right now. Ammo still hard to find and a little on the pricy side. But, I am able to use all my old 45ACP reloading dies and have reloaded about 150 45GAP rounds so far, and they are working great! I'm using Ranier 200gr JHP, 5.2gr Bullseye (on the low end) and this combination pushes the bullet to around 850fps. Someday, I may try to load it down for lighter recoil if I can find some recipies to do it safely. Recipies are still a little hard to find yet for the 45GAP, and I don't feel comfortable experimenting...
captyg76
10-21-2007, 12:13
G38. Have owned many different Glocks and this is the best shooter of the bunch. I also reload and so cost and availability issues are no issue for me.
Although I prefer the size of the Glock 38, I opted to get a Glock 39. I can carry it on duty in an ankle holster as a backup to my Glock 37 and I can also carry if offduty.
... Gun shops are the worse source for factual information.... The folks that talk badly about a Glock chambered in GAP have never fired one. Keep that in mind. Gun shops stay in business by offering the post popular models. The narrow minded general public has been slow to embrace the GAP, so many gun shops avoid them. Try one amd make up your own mind.
Your past ownership and experience with Glocks is impressive. That said, respectfully, I challenge the above statement. Gun shops know what sells. Any business, gun shops included, will stock what they can sell. Profit comes first. If they can't sell the guns, this is a reflection of the CONSUMER market. The 10mm and .357sig all experienced early fanfare that fizzled. The GAP may or may not follow that path, but the fact that sales are slow is a reflection on consumer demand, which is not favorable, and in turn will affect ammo cost and availability. This may ultimately determine the future of the GAP. The LEO community, despite a few exceptions, has been slow to adopt the .45GAP as they did the .40. If the LEO community does not embrace the GAP, it will not gain mass acceptance on par with the 9mm (international round), .40 (common LEO standard) and .45 (tried and true diehard following).
The concerns shared here over the GAP are not if it's a good (performing) round. It's about prevelance and longevity. The 10mm and .357sig provide recent illustrations. Mass acceptance of the GAP will lower ammo cost and increase ammo variety and supply. Currently, it's too expensive for me to shoot with limited ammo options locally, despite the fact that I really like the Glock 37 and Glock 38 feel. It's kinda like buying a passenger car because it runs on biodiesel... great concept, you just hope it catches on.
Some comments from here: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=773893
With the Glock 19 and Glock 23 there's a 2 round 9mm edge in the same size gun. I'd rather have the 14 rounds (13+1) of .40 than the 2 extra 9mm rounds. So, I have the Glock 23.
In the Glock 38, that number drops to 8+1 rounds of .45. I'd rather have the 5 extra rounds of .40. in a slightly smaller package (particularly slide width). With the three mags that LEO carry, that's 31 rounds in the Glock 37 vs. 46 in the Glock 22, assuming full mag in the gun +1 in the pipe.
I think the "effectiveness edge" of the .40 over 9mm is greater than the .45 edge over .40. This is not intended to start the age-old "caliber war". The point is that the .40 is NOT being questioned by the LEO community, in terms of effectiveness, as the 9mm was when the .40 came along.
Glock is HEAVILY promoting their .45GAP line. It's been featured in the Glock Annual for years now. Glock marketing and HUGE LEO discounts may pave those "inroads". For agencies that believe the .45 caliber is the only way to go, the .45GAP has real appeal over the .45ACP due to the resulting gun grip circumference. Aside from that, it's a harder sell I'm sure as the .40 is getting the job done and I don't see what the Glock 38 (Glock 37) offers that justifies the cost of a switchover, or loss of round count.
If I were a citizen in a 10-round state, or if the .45GAP came out early on during the ban, different story entirely. With that restriction, I'd go Glock 38 all the way. I prefer the mid-size guns and can't grip the larger frame of the Glock 21 or Glock 30 well. Maybe, the Glock 21SF.
It seems to be a great round, I personally just don't see a home for it... at least not in mine.
Gun shops know what sells. Any business, gun shops included, will stock what they can sell.
Gun shops know what THEY can sell. That is, after they have given the consumer idiotic advice. Bought a car lately? Do you think a GM salesman will tell you "yeah, it's a great car but a Toyota is more reliable......" C'mon!!! Get real! The average gun buyer does not cruise Internet message boards daily let alone read every gun rag in print. I help out at the largest public range in my state, hence I am on the front line of what "Joe Sixpack" actually buys and shoots. One local chain "superstore" will try to sell you an XD if you ask to see a Browning over & under!! That's because they have to sell over $10,000.00 of SA products in a year to remain a "stocking dealer".
It seems to be a great round, I personally just don't see a home for it... at least not in mine.
So why are you posting in the Bull Dawg section? Isn't that kind of like a priest condemning a cathouse from the inside?
Gun shops know what THEY can sell. That is, after they have given the consumer idiotic advice. Bought a car lately? Do you think a GM salesman will tell you "yeah, it's a great car but a Toyota is more reliable......" C'mon!!! Get real! The average gun buyer does not cruise Internet message boards daily let alone read every gun rag in print. I help out at the largest public range in my state, hence I am on the front line of what "Joe Sixpack" actually buys and shoots. One local chain "superstore" will try to sell you an XD if you ask to see a Browning over & under!! That's because they have to sell over $10,000.00 of SA products in a year to remain a "stocking dealer".
"What 'THEY' can sell"? That's really spliting hairs. A business will sell what they can sell. What they sell is what the consumer has. We're not talking brand, but caliber. Your arguement still supports my point as 10mm and .357sig could be examples following that logic. The question is will the .45GAP really catch on, not as a novelty like 10mm or .357sig, but really catch on. In sales, the seller will sell what they have to sell. GM will not steer me to Toyota unless they have a used one on the lot. Poor anology here. Gun stores stock Glock, S&W, Sig, Kimber, and so on and they may have "loyalties", but none greater than making the sale. Again, we're not talking about "good" or "reliable". It's about prevelance and longevity, which will determine ammo costs.
So why are you posting in the Bull Dawg section? Isn't that kind of like a priest condemning a cathouse from the inside?
No it's not actually. My reasons would seem obvious: I have a .45ACP, am looking at the Glock 21 and 21SF, and I too have/had been considering the GAP. I research large purchases and value opinion whether I agree with it or not. The more data the better. I've decided (for now) to wait to reconsider it seriously only when I think ammo variety and availability is or will become on par with 9mm, .40 and .45. Maybe a can't-pass-up deal will come along and I'll snatch up a Glock 37/38; who knows.
Regardless, I like to know what others think. We're all her to share our opinion and I believe I've done that objectively.
What they sell is what the consumer has.
Huh? Why would a consumer buy it if he already has it? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic my friend so I quit.
Huh? Why would a consumer buy it if he already has it? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic my friend so I quit.
Communication is imperfect. Not sure if this is a serious question/reply, though. You being coy?
This is business 101 stuff. Basic supply and demand. Consumers can only buy what's for sale, and a seller will (try to have in) stock what the market demands. Low demand equals higher cost, limited availability and/or deep discounts to move surplus inventory fast.
A business will sell what they can sell. What they sell is what the consumer has.
Possibly more clearly stated: A business will sell what they can sell. What they sell is what the consumer buys.
Gregw/aGlock
10-27-2007, 07:38
Interesting point of view, Cole. However, my experiences in gun shops both specifically looking to purchase a GAP model and looking to purchase mass quantities of GAP ammo in no way had anything to do with business 101. Specifically, I have been (1) made fun of for my interest in the GAP, (2) told that I could not buy those items in a particular gun shop because the owner thought that GAP stood for "Girlie Action Pistol" , and (3) shown 1911's when I specifically asked about GAP models.
I think many gun shops simply refused to sell GAP models based upon personal bias rather than consumer demand. Of course GAP models won't sell in gun shops when gun shops will not sell them or when gun shops dis-inform potential consumers. I wish Glock would send "mystery shoppers" into some of their Stocking Glock Dealers (yes, some of my experiences came from a gun shop that specialized in Glock products).
The fact appears to be that most people who do their own research and then purchase a GAP end up loving the round enough to not only keep it, but many buy more GAP models. How does that statistic fit into the "business 101" theory? Seems to me like if gun shops knew this and actually promoted or simply suggested GAP models to folks of the models target demographic, they would have potential repeat customers for more guns as well as ammo.
Also, there is a difference between a knowledgeable person working in a gun shop and the "mall-ninja" types I frequently see working the counter. It is the later group that lead to blanket statements such a DannyR's above which you challenged.
Thx-1138
10-27-2007, 10:54
Well, after buying a G39, I'm happy.
So happy, in fact, that I think I'll end up trading my G17 in for a G37. Eventually.
Interesting point of view, Cole. However, my experiences in gun shops both specifically looking to purchase a GAP model and looking to purchase mass quantities of GAP ammo in no way had anything to do with business 101. Specifically, I have been (1) made fun of for my interest in the GAP, (2) told that I could not buy those items in a particular gun shop because the owner thought that GAP stood for "Girlie Action Pistol" , and (3) shown 1911's when I specifically asked about GAP models.
I think many gun shops simply refused to sell GAP models based upon personal bias rather than consumer demand. Of course GAP models won't sell in gun shops when gun shops will not sell them or when gun shops dis-inform potential consumers. I wish Glock would send "mystery shoppers" into some of their Stocking Glock Dealers (yes, some of my experiences came from a gun shop that specialized in Glock products).
The fact appears to be that most people who do their own research and then purchase a GAP end up loving the round enough to not only keep it, but many buy more GAP models. How does that statistic fit into the "business 101" theory? Seems to me like if gun shops knew this and actually promoted or simply suggested GAP models to folks of the models target demographic, they would have potential repeat customers for more guns as well as ammo.
Also, there is a difference between a knowledgeable person working in a gun shop and the "mall-ninja" types I frequently see working the counter. It is the later group that lead to blanket statements such a DannyR's above which you challenged.
I totally agree the .45GAP is a great round concept. And, I too have been told it's not good by gun shop miscreants. My point is not a debate of the round at all. It's ultimately about ammo cost and availabilty down the road. I'm looking to the future. I'm pleased with the guns I have now and don't want to add a safe queen.
I really like the Glock 38, but now hope Glock makes a .45acp mid-size based off the Glock 21sf. The SF offerings could undercut the .45gap market.
Regardless:
Low demand equals higher cost, limited availability and/or deep discounts to move surplus inventory fast.
Note: once the surplus is gone on a low demand item, prices will rise significantly and availability will decrease.
Buying the gun is a small part of the cost. I want to feed it regularly, and I won't with the (in my area) harder to find and limited selection of 45GAP ammo a $18+/box while .45acp at $15, .40 at $13 and 9mm at $7 can be found almost everywhere. So, I shoot 9mm 75% of the time. I don't bother reloading anymore, and buying a .45gap won't change that. I hope the .45gap catches on.
I really like the Glock 38, but now hope Glock makes a .45acp mid-size based off the Glock 21sf. The SF offerings could undercut the .45gap market.
There is a HUGE difference between the grip circumference of the gap models and that of the SF. If you haven't fondled both, I HIGHLY recommend it.
Well, after buying a G39, I'm happy.
So happy, in fact, that I think I'll end up trading my G17 in for a G37. Eventually.
Congrats! Have a great time with your new gun!
I would take the G38 over the 39 for your stated purposes.
I agree. The G38 seems to fit your needs perfectly.
If you stated other needs I would go with the G39.
I have both.
The G38 is a perfect all around gun, I spend more time time at the range with it and my G37 than all my other Glocks. Great shooter and right on the money! GAP will never die out in my opinion,Just need to get them in more hands so they can see the beauty and performance of this round! I guess I'll get the G39 to round out the GAP collection, I Love Em!!!!!!!
There is a HUGE difference between the grip circumference of the gap models and that of the SF. If you haven't fondled both, I HIGHLY recommend it.
Yes, there is a difference. I own a 21sf. Have "fondled" the Glock 37 and Glock 38 time and again trying to warm up to it by ignoring the as yet lack of mass acceptance needed to increase .45gap ammo supply locally and also bring the ammo price down. Currently at local shops .45gap ammo is limited and $2-$4 more per box.
The Glock .45gap will take the magazine floorplate of the 9mm/.40/.357. That alone gives you an idea of how much smaller the mag, and so resulting grip, is in circumferance compared the the G21.
The Glock .45gap is thicker than the G17, slimmer than the G21sf. It's noticably, but not "HUGELY" bigger in my hand than the G37.
I own both the G-21SF as well as 3 Glocks in .45GAP. The G-37,38,and G39. My wife and I shoot a G-37 in GSSF matches and have been pleased with our results. The G-37's smaller grip frame fit both our hands better and the accuracy of the .45 GAP both improved our scores. She was never able to shoot any of my G-21's accurately until I bought the G-21SF. While the grip size difference between the two is small, it was enough to make accurate shooting and weapon manipulation possible for her and easier for me. Using Winchester 230 Ranger SXT in the GAP and Winchester 230 Ranger T-Series in the ACP I can tell no difference in performance with the exception of a slight accuracy edge for the GAP in my G-38.
Yes, there is a difference. I own a 21sf. Have "fondled" the Glock 37 and Glock 38 time and again trying to warm up to it by ignoring the as yet lack of mass acceptance needed to increase .45gap ammo supply locally and also bring the ammo price down. Currently at local shops .45gap ammo is limited and $2-$4 more per box.
The Glock .45gap will take the magazine floorplate of the 9mm/.40/.357. That alone gives you an idea of how much smaller the mag, and so resulting grip, is in circumferance compared the the G21.
The Glock .45gap is thicker than the G17, slimmer than the G21sf. It's noticably, but not "HUGELY" bigger in my hand than the G37.
The price of the ammo is the same if you order it by the case off the internet. 500rds/$220
The price of the ammo is the same if you order it by the case off the internet. 500rds/$220
Not compared to my LOCAL sources of factory reloads. I've stopped reloading myself.
Now with the Glock 21sf I gain nothing from the G37, actually loose 3 rounds in the mag. Plus I have FAR more ammo options in addition to the .45acp availability and prices noted earlier.
The Glock 38 would be a consideration unless Glock comes out with the rumored Glock 30sf which I'd get instead.
PsychoKnight
12-08-2007, 08:29
Are you buying a gun for 30 years in the future, or for use today?
My only two guns are a 38 and a 39. If a more useful round for the concept comes out in the future and the GAP fizzles out in 10, 20 or 30 years, and ammo becomes unavailable, who cares?
I'll buy a gun in the better round when its available. It makes sense for now, and since no one has a crystal ball that works (other than smaller gun shop dealers) - there's no reason not to buy into GAP. Its not a major committment. People worry more about whether GAP will be around than the time spent considering whether to get a sub-prime loan for a house they couldn't afford. Now, THAT is a future issue which has potential to severely impact one's quality of life.
The fact that Springfield A. gave up on GAP doesn't mean the demand is not rising, just that there is insufficient current demand to justify their particular economic model. It doesn't mean the GAP market as a whole in decline.
I think we are putting the wagon in front of the horse. The ammo for all new chamberings are going to be more expensive. If people like the round and it becomes popular, ammo will be easy to get and cheap. The ease of acquiring the ammo doesn't drive the popularity of the caliber, its the other way around. If the market is flooded with cheap Nambu ammo, and is a guaranteed long term supply, will agencies and individuals go out to buy guns in a chambering which serves no useful purpose? Demand will drive supply, at least in this free market system. And the demand is currently going up, not down.
Are you buying a gun for 30 years in the future, or for use today?
My only two guns are a 38 and a 39. If a more useful round for the concept comes out in the future and the GAP fizzles out in 10, 20 or 30 years, and ammo becomes unavailable, who cares?
I'll buy a gun in the better round when its available. It makes sense for now, and since no one has a crystal ball that works (other than smaller gun shop dealers) - there's no reason not to buy into GAP. Its not a major committment. People worry more about whether GAP will be around than the time spent considering whether to get a sub-prime loan for a house they couldn't afford. Now, THAT is a future issue which has potential to severely impact one's quality of life.
The fact that Springfield A. gave up on GAP doesn't mean the demand is not rising, just that there is insufficient current demand to justify their particular economic model. It doesn't mean the GAP market as a whole in decline.
I think we are putting the wagon in front of the horse. The ammo for all new chamberings are going to be more expensive. If people like the round and it becomes popular, ammo will be easy to get and cheap. The ease of acquiring the ammo doesn't drive the popularity of the caliber, its the other way around. If the market is flooded with cheap Nambu ammo, and is a guaranteed long term supply, will agencies and individuals go out to buy guns in a chambering which serves no useful purpose? Demand will drive supply, at least in this free market system. And the demand is currently going up, not down.
This reply is not a bad-mouth of the 45GAP round. It’s my objective opinion based on my observations and applying time-tested business theory. I would REALLY like the .45GAP to catch on. I waited, it’s not happened, so I bought a Glock 21SF. Now, I have MUCH less need for a slim .45GAP, especially giving up the 3 rounds (G37 vs. G21) and it does not fit in my 9mm/40/.357 leather anyway.
The 45GAP will take the path of the .357sig/10mm or the .40sw. It's too early to tell, but early indications simply do not appear good to me (at least in my area), especially with the introduction of the Glock SF (short frame) line.
Business theory would disagree with many of your points. Supply and demand are connected inseparably. Both drive the other. When 45GAP was in greater supply following release demand was low. Demand was not influenced favorably by supply OR HEAVY release/introduction marketing. Demand remains low and supply has declined. Springfield made a business decision to dump the 45GAP because it was not economically viable. Glock will fight tooth-and-nail because, well, the “G” in GAP stands for Glock.
I'm not aware of ANY business model that considers decreased supply and stale demand a good sign. The Glock 45GAPs at ALL my local shops sit on the shelf for WEEKS (even when priced $50+ less than 45ACP). A few agencies adopted the .45GAP, but that’s a minuscule amount considering the available market. Demand has simply not yet, emphasis on "yet", influenced greater ammo supply and a reduction in ammo cost.
The increased ammo cost of owning a 45GAP is real now. It simply costs more ($4-$5 box) to feed a 45GAP with my supply of local factory reloads. Also, the .357sig and 10mm show that the timeline to release and relegation to a more novelty load (with limited ammo availability and higher ammo cost) is MUCH shorter than 10, 20 or 30 years. Time will answer the question... until that time, it's all debate.
...until that time, it's all debate.
No it's not. Good bye. :wavey:
I like PsychoKnight's input. I've never thought of it that way.
And for those who have discovered and appriciate the advantages the GAP has given us, there really is no debate.
All I know is, I got a 45 in the frame of a G26. That's a big deal to a man that loves the 45ACP, but needs the compactness of a subcompact. There is no Glock offering that matches that chambered in 45ACP. Everyone as got to agree with at least that!
PsychoKnight
12-12-2007, 18:38
Cole, I understand your view. But if I found the perfect round/gun match, I would spend double what it costs now to protect the safety of my family and myself. A baseball bat or kitchen knife is cheaper. Some people have used those. If cost is the over-riding factor, we'd all be using 9mm and 22LR as self defence (my first SD weapon was a tube-loaded 22LR semi-auto rifle with a capacity of 20 rounds, I figured that should stop anyone up close).
As for econ models, I think you are looking at micro-period samples. I agree with your conclusion that only time will tell in the long run, and that was my point of 10, 20 or 3o years. The GAP isn't going away in 5 years. If I can only get ammo for 5 years, that's okay. If a more functional caliber/gun arrives in 3, I'm switching over. I'm not going to cry over my gap investment.
Of all the major decisions in life, this will be one of the cheapest, and therefore not worth the stress of whether to pay $4-5 more per box of ammo. You can practice with 20% less ammo if that makes up for it, by going to the range more frequently, but shooting fewer rounds at a time. I'm not wedded to the gap - every cartridge has its set of plus and minuses, but it happens to be best for me right now, and that's all that matters.
GlockBaby
12-15-2007, 19:36
Hi
I must admit, at first, I thought, "Why?"
Now I live in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, and we are 10 round limited. I carry most often a 360PD, titanium 357, because of the weight issue. I've longed for an auto that was even close, and, chambered for a round I like. I looked at the 29 and 30. Near perfect, but a bit heavy loaded.
The 36 is Gastons problem child, so that ones around a lot, but, I don't want to buy another persons older problem.
I often look longingly at the 26/27 and their under 20 oz unloaded weight, but, don't much fancy the 9mm or 40.
Then I saw the specs on the 39. Its growing on me. 45 ACP ballistics in a 9mm sized gun...
My only real reservation is if the 29 isn't what I really would be happy with. Then I look at Double Taps amazing results with 230 grain Gold Dots, and I think maybe the 30 is the way to go(I do have large hands). It's nice to have choices, but, for right now, I'm staying with the 357, which is really barely a 357 when you use a 2" barrel...Not sure but, next step is to put the holster on, and see what I can conceal, and what weighs what...
dwheeler
12-19-2007, 12:35
Don't know whether to buy a g38 or g39? Buy the g38 and have it sent somewhere like Bowie Tactical and have the grip chopped to the length of the g39. Then you will have the best of both; shorter grip for concealment and longer bbl. length for velocity!
GlockBaby
12-19-2007, 19:30
HMMMM. 39,30, 0r 29>>?>
thisismyglock
12-21-2007, 11:33
I have both a Glock 37 and a 38 and I still cant tell you my favorite. I love shooting them both! I can tell you this. I have stopped shooting my 1911 and my 35, and I am now selling my Sig 226.
I have found no better glock carry gun. The 39 is the easiest to conceal and still has all the power you would ever need. The easier it is to conceal the more likely you will keep it with you at all times. The model 39 is quite a sight to behold. Good luck to you./
watsoncb
01-19-2008, 19:40
I had the same question and went with a Model 39 and kept for just under 3 months and traded it in for a Model 38.
I have meat ball hands and the Model 39 just kept biting my hand. I love my Glock 23 and decided that the Model 38 would be a better fit for me. The Model 38 has a longer grip (5.0 inches vs 4.17) which helps. Plus the longer barrel give me a little extra "pop" for the BG.
Are you buying a gun for 30 years in the future, or for use today?
My first and only s-auto is the 37. After buying and using with great glee i was told by another store: "Why'd you buy that, you could have a gotten 45 acp and saved ammo $". I said "Because I love shooting it and it cost $439 new" (It did on Gunbroker, lucky find).
I spend 20,000 bucks + for a car that will last less than 10 years, if I spend $439 and an extra 2 bucks/wk average for ammo and I get 5 years out of this gun: GREAT!. What's the problem?
I doubt though the GAP is really going to be gone, and it only needs to be available at reasonable addition of a few bucks more than ACP per 500 online.
It is. And that's the worst that's likely to happen. I likely will be shooting it far more than 5 yrs. And it may well grow in sales. But if wanted the most popular round in the world I would have bought accordingly. I wanted a very, very, good, accurate, easy, comfortable, safe, simple gun for SD and range that wouldn't kill me financially. I'm also a new shooter and am 60 yrs old and have the limitations of both. So, I need a good gun to help me. I have it. I'm not lookin'.
I like the G38 for all-around use.
Ditto. Perfect frame size for me and my hand-size in any caliber.
loose cannon
01-22-2008, 22:10
im a noob to this club,,,
but not to glocks having had at least one within reach for the last 14years.but mostly ive been a 9mm glocker having had a short daliance with the g20 and loading 10mm.my last glock is a g19 i got for christmas.
the more i research the 45gap the more i want one it will probably be the g38 i end up with.i plan to rent and shot the 37,38,and 39 before buying.i could give a rip about ammo availability because i will make my own gap ammo and have the brass in sufficient amounts.
although i like the speed of my chosen 115jhp 9mms im getting the itch for a large caliber glock and having small/medium hands the 45gap sounds ideal to me for those times when i feel like carrying big slow rocks lol.
being a huge fan of the g19 the g38 seems a logical choice:supergrin:
Very funny! No, just saying that I am inherited the vertical build that doesn't seem to gain bulk very well. People used to ask me if I played basketball, but sports skill doesn't necessarily come with the build. Concealment is challenging.
Hey I feel your pain ! Im a guy, but at 6'1 and 145lbs, concealing can be tricky. I carry my 23 in an MTAC right now. But for summer, Im either going to get a S&W 360PD, or get another baby glock. Maybe even a 39 :shocked:
I think many gun shops simply refused to sell GAP models based upon personal bias rather than consumer demand. Of course GAP models won't sell in gun shops when gun shops will not sell them or when gun shops dis-inform potential consumers. I wish Glock would send "mystery shoppers" into some of their Stocking Glock Dealers (yes, some of my experiences came from a gun shop that specialized in Glock products).
I think Greg hit the nail on the head here. I am LE. I like my G39 & G38. I worked for a gun shop. They felt that the .45 GAP was, well you know, an answer---- blah, blah, blah, blah, we have all heard it. For the price, size etc. the G39 is really a nice little package. I tried two Colt defenders, a couple of Kimber's and they had all had different types problems. My G39 and G38 just chug along without a hitch.
schapman43
01-30-2008, 09:29
With 10% of the Law Enforcement Community in the U.S. adopting the .45 GAP I doubt it's going away anytime soon. My guess is that it's popularity with Law Enforcement will continue to grow and we'll see GAP being just as popular as .40 S&W. Ammoman currently has GAP ammo for the same price as ACP. I'll be picking up 1K on payday.
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