View Full Version : Fn 5.7
Dallas.com
10-26-2007, 10:20
I'm curious to know if anybody here has had any experience with this pistol. I don't see the rational behind a pistol like this. I need to admit it's different and one day might become a colectable piece.
TN.Frank
10-26-2007, 11:06
The reason behind this pistol is to defeat body armor. The 5.7x28mm is suppose to be able to punch a neat little hole in most body armor, but of course, the rounds that "Joe Civilian" can buy aren't the same as the LEO/Military stuff so the ctg. isn't anywhere near as effective at doing it's job.
UniversalBrow06
10-26-2007, 11:11
And the saga continues :popcorn:
Just for the record, I've read pretty much all there is to read on this firearm and the cartridge it utilizes. It will be my next purchase item at the local gun shop.
TN.Frank
10-26-2007, 11:14
On the one hand I'd really like to have one but on the other hand I have to ask myself just how practical a pistol like that would be for me to own. I guess if it was about the same price as a Glock I'd really think about it but at $800+ and with ammo on the hard side to find I'd rather buy a couple used Glocks to play with. Of course on the other hand, FN does have a civilian legal version of the P90 coming out so you could have a carbine and pistol that'd take the same ammo. That'd be kind of cool.
Duncan223
10-26-2007, 11:16
When the next assault weapon/crime bill is passed, you can bet the FN5.7 will be on the list!!
TN.Frank
10-26-2007, 11:37
When the next assault weapon/crime bill is passed, you can bet the FN5.7 will be on the list!!
I just hope they keep missing the 7.62x25mm. That's a Kevlar burner if there ever was one. Cuts thru IIIa like a knife thru warm butter.
The FN Five-seven and 5.7x28mm ammo has it's own ban bill.
Head over to www.fnforum.net to learn more about the Five-seveN, the 5.7x28mm and anything else made by FN.
I like mine quite a bit. Its fun to shoot.
I just hope they keep missing the 7.62x25mm. That's a Kevlar burner if there ever was one. Cuts thru IIIa like a knife thru warm butter.
Yup, I have seen the crappy corrosive surplus ammo go straight through two level II vests taped together and keep on truckin. Not to mention the gun that fires it only costs about $150.
Bikerpreacher
10-26-2007, 22:40
I don't see the rational behind a pistol like this.
Let's see, 28 grain bullet at around 2100 fps out of a four inch barrel with zero recoil and a capacity of 20 rounds.. Nothing there of interest. Not to mention the rifle which has a 50 round capacity and word is a vendor is working to develop a 100 round magazine for the rifle.
Zippy little round that is likely as noted going to be one of the first items listed should another ban come into play. It will likely become quite valuable it that happens.
Dallas.com
10-26-2007, 23:18
....going to be one of the first items listed should another ban come ....
you are right about that.
M2 Carbine
10-27-2007, 08:10
I use my 5.7 FN as a primary inside/outside HD pistol.
I noticed at the the last gun show the price has gone up. Mine was $760.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/FN57andTLR2.jpg
I shoot the FN57 faster & more accurately than any other handgun and that's good enough for it to earn nightstand duty at my house as well.
Tomac
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofFN57w-X2LLaser-Light001.jpg
Just for the record, I've read pretty much all there is to read on this firearm and the cartridge it utilizes. It will be my next purchase item at the local gun shop.
I've read pretty much everything about it as well and have come to the opposite conclusion.
I have no need for it.
MSgt Dotson
10-27-2007, 09:38
When I want a large 1911+ sized pistol that fires 20-30 each 22 Mag equivalent rounds, I will be in line...
Until then, it is merely a novelty, or perhaps a companion sidearm for those owning carbines so chambered....
Too anemic, and too expensive for the ammo, and underpowered...
my 2 pennies...
TN.Frank
10-27-2007, 09:46
I really don't think you'll get 2100 fps from a 22 Mag out of a Handgun, a rifle sure, but NOT a handgun. That makes the 5.7mm a lot more powerful then a 22 Mag. Like I said before, if prices on em' wasn't so high I'd probably get one just for S#!ts and giggles. Of course I've always liked "odd ball" rounds. That's why I really used to love the ol' 41 Mag. LOL.
M2 Carbine
10-27-2007, 11:19
I'm surprised the price of the gun and ammo hasn't gone down.
I figured the gun would be in the $600 range and the ammo would be $15/50 by now.
The ammo is cheap to reload, very cheap if FMJ Mil surplus bullets are used.
The only trouble is finding reasonably priced brass.
I reeeeeeally wanted one for a long time even before they were ever talking about releasing them to the public. I had every intent to pick one up. I almost bought an IOM for 800.( Should have bought it to resale)
The reason I won't go near it. Is someone did the math and I believe it only got in the 200ish ftlb range for energy...uuum my p3at can do that in a tiny gun. The only reason I wanted one after that is because everyone that owns one says they are very accurrate and fun to shoot. Well, if ammo drops A LOT in cost I'll consider it again. Until then, my suped up mk3 hunter will suffice in that role. Besides you can't beat the price of 22lr unless its free.
Dallas.com
10-27-2007, 19:22
Do you have reloading data for it?
Do you have reloading data for it?
unfortunately not.
I forgot the equation to get energy from a given velocity and grain rating but thats what he used. I'm sure you could find the equation then just find some stats and use it.
There is a lot of talking about the gun from many who actually have no idea what they are talking about. They read something somewhere, they have already made up their mind about, it's to expensive and thus needs to be despised, etc, etc
Reality is that it's accurate, light, effective, handgun with the highest capacity for it's size and in my opinion the gun that is way ahead of it's time.
5.7x28mm SS195LF is not restricted and has the same affect on human flesh as "AP" SS190. The only difference is that 190 ("AP") will perforate (penetrate) level 3 body armor + titanium plate. While civilian legal SS195LF can only go trough level II.
They both will go trough 9" or so of flesh tumbling after penetrating the body armor. The interesting thing is that even if there was no body armor in front of the body the bullet will travel the same length inside the body. The bullet was designed not to over penetrate.
Anyway, I paid $1,000 for mine several years ago and it's hands down my favorite handgun. Some photos of it.
M2 Carbine
10-28-2007, 07:29
Do you have reloading data for it?
There used to be a lot of reloading info at the fivesevenforum.com but the site seems to be down.
I've been loading Mil surplus 55gr FMJBT bullets and Hornady 40 gr V Max bullets, but since it's an experiment in progress I don't want to say the powder amount I'm using.
The last time I went to the fivesevenforum, as I recall, some people were trying to get close to 2,000 fps with the 55 gr bullet.
Bikerpreacher
10-28-2007, 08:28
I haven't looked, but I would think a powder like "Lil Gun" would be a good candidate? Since the round is fairly new in terms of available reloading data, perhaps you could check the web site of the powder manufacturer. Sometimes they release data on the web quicker than they can get it into print?
Found the equation:
Ke= V squared x Gr
---------------
450400
That means 28gr @ 2100= 274
Thats less than half of a 357sig 125gr @ 1415= 556(and the is a 3.5" barrel BTW)
Personally, I'll pass.
Anyone have the stats of one coming out of a ps90 or p90 barrel.
I think thats a pretty unique platform and if the energy rating is high enough I might pick one up.
Dallas.com
10-31-2007, 21:37
Do you guys know any army that has adopted and use it?
Mikeyboy
10-31-2007, 21:42
Do you guys know any army that has adopted and use it?
The Saudis recently bought a bunch, I don't know if they are in the rotation yet.
Bikerpreacher
10-31-2007, 21:49
I believe our dept of Homeland Security also bought a bunch of them a year or so ago..
HiVelSword
11-01-2007, 05:43
Let's see, 28 grain bullet at around 2100 fps out of a four inch barrel with zero recoil and a capacity of 20 rounds.. Nothing there of interest.
You do realize that's only giving you 274 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
I'll take a Beretta Px4 with its 20 round mags or a CZ SP-01 with it's 19 round mags over an FN 5.7 who's round is designed to penetrate body armor.
If the 5.7 was such a great defensive round you'd see more and more cops carrying them.
And quite frankly, other designers would offer models in the same cartridge. It's been around for a while now. Where are the other manufacturer's offerings?
M2 Carbine
11-01-2007, 08:46
I don't know that any real information can be gained from shooting wet phone books but it can show an interesting comparison between bullets.
Judging by the extremely poor penetration of the 45ACP apparently wet books are a very effective bullet stopper. The Aguila IQ and Remington Golden Saber barely made it past two inches.
The 5.7 SS 195 (FMJHP) turned sideways shortly after entering the books and continued sideways, doing a good bit of damage.
In other backyard tests, like shooting water jugs, the bullet appeared to consistently turn sideways traveling through the target.
One 5.7 V Max expanded and penetrated to only four inches. The second 5.7 V Max expanded little and penetrated almost as much as the SS 195.
That caused me to now keep my 5.7 FN house gun loaded with SS 195 FMJHP instead of the V Max.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/FNphonebooks2.jpg
ShipWreck
11-01-2007, 14:13
I really like my PS90 and Five Seven - good matching pair of weapons.
Come check out the FN Forum if ya wanna learn more. FN has someone answering questions a few times a month now.
www.fnforum.net
M2 Carbine
11-01-2007, 14:43
ShipWreck, what happened to the FN FiveseveN forum?
I hadn't been there in a while and now can't bring it up anymore.
ShipWreck
11-01-2007, 14:57
The FN Forum is www.fnforum.net - I am the admin there. I have no idea what's going on at Five Seven.
the p90 bullpup makes more sence.50 rounds sweet.
To everyone that was ever killed with a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were killed with a useless cartridge!"
That's like seven people and four died days after getting shot, from wound infection.
Bikerpreacher
11-01-2007, 19:16
You do realize that's only giving you 274 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
I'll take a Beretta Px4 with its 20 round mags or a CZ SP-01 with it's 19 round mags over an FN 5.7 who's round is designed to penetrate body armor.
If the 5.7 was such a great defensive round you'd see more and more cops carrying them.
And quite frankly, other designers would offer models in the same cartridge. It's been around for a while now. Where are the other manufacturer's offerings?
That is the great thing about living in America, choice. If you choose to arm yourself with the Beretta or CZ, more power to you. It isn't that I don't have other guns that would work for CCW, I just like to carry my FN 5.7. When I carry extra mags I have 60 round of those 274 fp loads on me with no significant weight noticed.
Pay your money and make your choice, but please refrain from judging me for mine.
Indy_Guy_77
11-01-2007, 19:33
I had a chance to shoot one for the first time this past Saturday.
I absolutely LOVED the trigger on this pistol.
Recoil was as close to a .22 as you can get without actually being one.
Did not like the ergonomics, feel, or sights at all.
If one were given to me, I'd take it and be happy. I sincerely doubt that I'll buy one though.
-J-
ShipWreck
11-01-2007, 19:34
Pay your money and make your choice, but please refrain from judging me for mine.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Smiley/whrrd.gif
HiVelSword
11-01-2007, 20:42
That is the great thing about living in America, choice. If you choose to arm yourself with the Beretta or CZ, more power to you. It isn't that I don't have other guns that would work for CCW, I just like to carry my FN 5.7. When I carry extra mags I have 60 round of those 274 fp loads on me with no significant weight noticed.
Pay your money and make your choice, but please refrain from judging me for mine.
Notice how I said that "I" would rather carry a hi-cap 9mm. Where did I say that you shouldn't carry the 5.7?
I was just stating my opinion that the 5.7 is not that great of a defensive cartridge. You know, that's the great thing about living in America, a right to espouse your opinion.
Werd! lol
Notice how I said that "I" would rather carry a hi-cap 9mm. Where did I say that you shouldn't carry the 5.7?
I was just stating my opinion that the 5.7 is not that great of a defensive cartridge. You know, that's the great thing about living in America, a right to espouse your opinion.
Shipwreck, I'm sure you would know, Whats the velocity rating coming out of a ps90 and/or p90 barrel?
Extorris
11-01-2007, 23:58
I figured the gun would be in the $600 range and the ammo would be $15/50 by now.
I wish more than 1 company would make the ammo. No one else has plans to produce it. I haven't even fired my PS90 yet. :)
HiVelSword
11-02-2007, 04:31
That's like seven people and four died days after getting shot, from wound infection.
Oooooooo CLEVER!
HiVelSword
11-02-2007, 04:36
Werd! lol
Shipwreck, I'm sure you would know, Whats the velocity rating coming out of a ps90 and/or p90 barrel?
I'm sure that out of even a P-90 barrel you're getting over 300 foot pounds. Couple that with dumping a 5-6 round burst in a body armor wearing terrorist and it's lights out.
Only thing I don't like is the bottom ejection. It may or may not have happened yet but I can just picture some guy in a room with a marble floor who just dumped half a mag, went to go forward and slipped on brass.
ShipWreck
11-02-2007, 05:00
I figured the gun would be in the $600 range and the ammo would be $15/50 by now.
Realize that it is the only ammo that has not gone up in price, and U can find it for $16-$16.95 if U try hard enough. When shooting it from the rifle, that's not a bad deal for 50 rounds of hi quality rifle ammo.
ShipWreck
11-02-2007, 05:15
Werd! lol
Shipwreck, I'm sure you would know, Whats the velocity rating coming out of a ps90 and/or p90 barrel?
Well, 195 ammo from the PS90 hits 2550 fps and has 394 ft/lbs.
I was just stating my opinion that the 5.7 is not that great of a defensive cartridge.
And I will defend your right to that opinion (whether it's different from mine or not). However, IMHO no handgun, regardless of caliber or bullet used, is "a great defensive cartridge". Barring a hit to the CNS the only thing that will stop a determined BG is shutting down the brain from oxygen deprivation due to bleedout. So, with all other parameters being the same (ie: same BG, range, hit location, etc) what practical difference in effectiveness would we see between the 5.7 and your fav handgun round? (ie: How much practical difference in bleedout rate would we see? 30 sec? 1 minute? 5 sec? None? What?) My *opinion* is that shot placement & sufficient penetration are paramount and all other considerations are secondary. While the 5.7 isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread I can shoot it faster & more accurately than anything else and that is more important to me for my SD needs.
Tomac
M2 Carbine
11-02-2007, 08:28
Realize that it is the only ammo that has not gone up in price, and U can find it for $16-$16.95 if U try hard enough. When shooting it from the rifle, that's not a bad deal for 50 rounds of hi quality rifle ammo.
Yes, since all the other ammo has increased so much in price, the price of 5.7
doesn't look too bad.
The round is cheap to reload.
I kept hoping that Starline or someone would manufacture new brass but I don't guess that's going to happen.
ShipWreck
11-02-2007, 08:32
I typically sell my brass when I have some.
Dallas.com
11-02-2007, 08:42
were can I find reloading data ( reliable that is). Who makes reloading dies for it?
M2 Carbine
11-02-2007, 09:18
were can I find reloading data ( reliable that is). Who makes reloading dies for it?
Since my loads are a work in progress I don't want to post them but info can be found on the net. I'm using up to Mil 55gr FMJBT bullets.
I haven't looked yet, but www.fnforum.net might have loading info.
Midway has dies.
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Categoryid=17734&categorystring=9315***731***702***8345***
TN.Frank
11-02-2007, 09:29
The question isn't so much how much energy the ctg. makes as it is how much of that energy is transfered to the target. So it only makes 274 ft/lbs, if all of it is transfered to the target it's better then a round that makes 500 ft/lbs where you get total penetration and maybe 150-200 ft/lbs of that 500 actually transfered to the target. Of course it's all pretty much a moot point. The reason for the ctg. is to penetrate body armor. I'd rather have 274 ft/lbs penetrate a IIIa vest and do some damage then 500 ft/lbs be stopped by the vest.
If nothing else it'd make a heck of a handgun to hunt coyotes with where legal.
Bikerpreacher
11-02-2007, 09:39
If nothing else it'd make a heck of a handgun to hunt coyotes with where legal.
A friend in the area has used it for that purpose many times with great success.
Well, 195 ammo from the PS90 hits 2550 fps and has 394 ft/lbs.
I find these numbers to be more acceptable since I imagine it factory ammo and can be loaded up a bit more.
I personally like that the ps90 p90 eject straight down, especially with the catch bag. I HATE chasing brass, especially when its brass I actually want because I want to get every one of them back.
HiVelSword
11-02-2007, 11:09
The reason for the ctg. is to penetrate body armor. I'd rather have 274 ft/lbs penetrate a IIIa vest and do some damage then 500 ft/lbs be stopped by the vest.
Why are you concerned about penetrating body armor? Has there been an epidemic of home invaders wearing body armor? Or street muggers?
If so then I guess we all need to get an FN 5.7 and use them for concealed carry as well as a bedside gun.
TN.Frank
11-02-2007, 11:13
Why are you concerned about penetrating body armor? Has there been an epidemic of home invaders wearing body armor? Or street muggers?
If so then I guess we all need to get an FN 5.7 and use them for concealed carry as well as a bedside gun.
Guess ya' don't remember the two L.A. bank robbers, do ya'?
Guess ya' don't remember the two L.A. bank robbers, do ya'?
But you live in TN.
HiVelSword
11-02-2007, 11:34
Guys, listen. I think the FN 5.7 is a cool gun. Really!!!
Once I finally get a better paying job I might get one myself someday. But I won't be carrying it.
Until martial law is imposed and govt agents (wearing body armor) start kicking down doors to confiscate guns then perhaps I'll stick it in a holster. Until then...
HiVelSword
11-02-2007, 11:35
Guess ya' don't remember the two L.A. bank robbers, do ya'?
Yeah, and that was when? And where? How many other robberies have you heard of since then where the perps were wearing body armor?
And as was stated, you live in Tenessee.
TN.Frank
11-02-2007, 12:02
And the bank robbery took place in Calif., a state with some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. So what's your point. A crime like that can happen anywhere. I just think it'd pay to be ready for it rather then have to beg AR-15's from a local gun shop.
Bodacious
11-02-2007, 15:21
In any situation where one would be facing body armor I would hope that a rifle would be being used to defeat it. 5.56 and 7.62 are going to do a fine job defeating class III armor.
M2 Carbine
11-02-2007, 15:44
In any situation where one would be facing body armor I would hope that a rifle would be being used to defeat it. 5.56 and 7.62 are going to do a fine job defeating class III armor.
There was a courthouse shooting in TX a while back. The BG wore body armor and was shooting the crap out of everyone including a civilian that shot the BG in the body with a pistol, apparently not knowing the BG had on armor. The BG killed the civilian along with I don't remember how many others.
Chances are if just one of the LEO was armed with the 5.7 FN (or a rifle) the BG might have been stopped early on.
That's when I replaced my M1 Carbine truck rifle with a SKS. I want something that I'm sure will go through most body armor.
HiVelSword
11-03-2007, 02:57
And the bank robbery took place in Calif., a state with some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. So what's your point. A crime like that can happen anywhere. I just think it'd pay to be ready for it rather then have to beg AR-15's from a local gun shop.
So by that statement you feel that everyone should be carrying the 5.7. After all, a crime like that can happen anywhere at anytime. Better to be prepared.
Stupid law enforcement are still carrying 9,'s, .40's, .357 SIGs and .45's! Why don't they see this nationwide epidemic of body armor wearing ne'er do wells???
Now seriously. Go to the advent of body armor. Now find out how many times something like the LA bank heist has happened across the country up to the present time. Now compare it to the number of , oh let's say carjackings. I wouldn't want to say being mugged at gun point because that's been happening long before bullet resistant vests have been around. Anyway, please just take a simple guess at which unfortunate incident a person might find themselves in significantly more than the other.
Perhaps we can ask all the members of this forum how many times they've come face to face with a body armor wearing killer?
But hey, since you like to be prepared for anything, stop driving. You are MUCH more likely to be killed while driving a vehicle than to face off against a bank robber decked out in assault gear and Kevlar.
HiVelSword
11-03-2007, 03:01
There was a courthouse shooting in TX a while back. The BG wore body armor and was shooting the crap out of everyone including a civilian that shot the BG in the body with a pistol, apparently not knowing the BG had on armor. The BG killed the civilian along with I don't remember how many others.
Chances are if just one of the LEO was armed with the 5.7 FN (or a rifle) the BG might have been stopped early on.
That's when I replaced my M1 Carbine truck rifle with a SKS. I want something that I'm sure will go through most body armor.
Until incidents like this become the norm rather than an occurrence rate measured in the low single digits percentage wise, I don't see your standard rank and file being issued 5.7's.
ShipWreck
11-04-2007, 14:12
I find these numbers to be more acceptable since I imagine it factory ammo and can be loaded up a bit more.
I personally like that the ps90 p90 eject straight down, especially with the catch bag. I HATE chasing brass, especially when its brass I actually want because I want to get every one of them back.
Yes, the #'s aren't bad...
Here is a pic from today - I took of my PS90...
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/PS90/fn-ps902.jpg
Yes, the #'s aren't bad...
Here is a pic from today - I took of my PS90...
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/PS90/fn-ps902.jpg
Looks good but it looks impossible to get a good cheekweld using an eotech on that.
ShipWreck
11-04-2007, 19:41
Looks good but it looks impossible to get a good cheekweld using an eotech on that.
Not of U are left eye dominate!
HiVelSword
11-04-2007, 19:51
Yes, the #'s aren't bad...
Here is a pic from today - I took of my PS90...
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/PS90/fn-ps902.jpg
Pretty sweet!!!
Shipwreck, I was wondering and I figured if anyone would know it's you.
Are the lasers that are integral with the weak hand, hanguard available to civilians?
ShipWreck
11-04-2007, 20:04
Pretty sweet!!!
Shipwreck, I was wondering and I figured if anyone would know it's you.
Are the lasers that are integral with the weak hand, hanguard available to civilians?
There is a lower powered version that is available. U can order the parts from a dealer in Honk King. They lower the power to 5mW.
Then, U can either install it yourself, get a smith to do it (which, I would worry about if they are not familiar with PS90s, or get someone who has done a few to do the install.
We have 1 sponsor at FN Forum that apparently installs them.
tooouter
03-12-2008, 20:28
A friend in the area has used it for that purpose many times with great success.
Now that appeals to me. At what range were they? What's the effective range.....not advertised but real world for varmints?
ShipWreck
03-12-2008, 20:39
Pretty sweet!!!
Shipwreck, I was wondering and I figured if anyone would know it's you.
Are the lasers that are integral with the weak hand, hanguard available to civilians?
Yes - but they are aftermarket - Promoted Pawn, a sponsor at my site, does the install. He also supplies the laser.
Be aware that they are 5mW, not the 10 mW that law enforcement get.
That is all that is available to us lowly civilians.
ShipWreck
03-12-2008, 20:41
Looks good but it looks impossible to get a good cheekweld using an eotech on that.
I am left eye dominant - so not for me.
And, one can get a double mag clamp - and the second mag lays across the top of the rear stock. For right eyed people - this will allow a cheek weld...
Here: http://magazineparts.com/productDisplay.php?id=MC
Pretty sweet!!!
Are the lasers that are integral with the weak hand, hanguard available to civilians?
It's the actual P90 laser but, as Shipwreck mentioned, they've replaced the military 10mw emitter w/a civvy-legal 5mw emitter. It's available here, do a search for "P90 laser": http://www.dentrinityshop.com/den_search.jsp
You can see it installed on one of my PS90s:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPS90withAimpoint019.jpg
Tomac
HiVelSword
03-15-2008, 09:26
It's the actual P90 laser but, as Shipwreck mentioned, they've replaced the military 10mw emitter w/a civvy-legal 5mw emitter. It's available here, do a search for "P90 laser": http://www.dentrinityshop.com/den_search.jsp
You can see it installed on one of my PS90s:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPS90withAimpoint019.jpg
Tomac
That's pretty awesome though it bothers me that they cut the power in half. As cool as it is, if (perhaps when) I get a PS90 I'd toss on a Lasermaxx green laser on one of the rails.
No, it's not as close to the bore as that integral laser but it's super bright.
And I'm satisfied with the muzzle energy even from a 10.5" barrel so my PS90 would definitely be an SBR. :supergrin:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Five%20Seven/DSC01129d.jpg
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