Handguns for Deer Season [Archive] - Glock Talk

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anyplainjoe
10-29-2007, 11:33
I was reading the Division of Wildlife 07-08 Regulations. For taking deer with a handgun, I read the requirements are a 5" barrel and straight walled cartridge of .357 caliber or higher. Soooo......

Anyone ever use a handgun for deer? With these regulations, popular pistols such as the 1911 Gov't model or even a G22 with a Lone Wolf extended barrel would be ok.

Has me thinking....

RWBlue
10-29-2007, 15:19
I was reading the Division of Wildlife 07-08 Regulations. For taking deer with a handgun, I read the requirements are a 5" barrel and straight walled cartridge of .357 caliber or higher. Soooo......

Anyone ever use a handgun for deer? With these regulations, popular pistols such as the 1911 Gov't model or even a G22 with a Lone Wolf extended barrel would be ok.

Has me thinking....

45ACP isn't legal. The cartridge is not long enough.

I know someone who used a 357 revolver.
I took my 44mag DesEagle to the woods, but never got a shot.

degoodman
10-29-2007, 17:24
45ACP isn't legal. The cartridge is not long enough.

I know someone who used a 357 revolver.
I took my 44mag DesEagle to the woods, but never got a shot.

The DNR hunting regs do not specify a minimum length for the caliber as many states do. .45 ACP is legal.

HOWEVER!

Using ANY semiautomatic pistol caliber for the hunting of deer barely qualifies as ethical. Seriously. Don't do it. If for some reason you feel the need to use a 1911 or a Glock to hunt deer, don't. Move to the nearest wall, and smack your head against it as hard as you can for thinking it was a good idea.

Straight walled semiautomatic pistol cartridges do a VERY poor job against deer. There are a cascade of reasons for this. Principal among these is bullet selection. The expanding bullets for semi-autos are designed to work correctly against human density tissue. Game animals have denser tissue and heavier bones, which typically cause the bullets to expand prematurely and underpenetrate, leading to a slow painful death for an animal that you will not be able to locate and collect.

The alternative to this, that is preferred by a substantial majority of handgun hunters, is to use a non-expanding cast lead bullet with a sharp shoulder, and wide flat meplat, exepmlified by the WFNGC or Keith Style Semi-Wadcutter bullets. These bullets cause substantial tissue crush because of the flat noses, and penetrate deeply, usually producing a through and through wound on all but the most rakishly angled shot on deer sized game. This profile bullet will typically not feed in a semi-auto. The non-expanding bullets that will feed in semi's lack the proper shoulder configuration or flat nose to work well against game.

A final nail in most semi-auto's coffins is their accuracy under field conditions. To properly anchor a deer, you better be able to place a bullet into a 8" circle on demand under field conditions. As a note for you, unless you can shoot a GSSF-Indoor match with a perfect 500 every time, you are not good enough to hold a 6" circle with your chosen semi, and that's at distances of 25 yards or less. The D-1 tombstone has a "10 ring" that's 8" across.

A major part of hutning ethics is using weapons of sufficient power and accuracy to guarantee a quick kill on your chosen quarry. The typical semi-auto (with rare exceptions like the Desert Eagle) lacks these two characteristics, and should not be used.

The reason the hunting regulations book is as thick as it is is due in large part to the lack of ethical concern shown by so many hunters. The use of an inadequate caliber in an inadquate weapons platform exemplifies this to a tee. Just because something is legal does not mean that it is ethical. Recognizing that difference is the difference between an educated, responsible hunter, and someone that has no business afield.

RWBlue
10-29-2007, 18:24
The DNR hunting regs do not specify a minimum length for the caliber as many states do. .45 ACP is legal.
.

It doesn't? It use to? How sure are you, because I had a conversation about this subject with a DNR guy a couple (ok many) years ago?

If it is legal, I would be very inclined to use my 45Super on a deer. :-)
But then there is the suppressor which I think takes me back to illegal. :-(

anyplainjoe
10-29-2007, 18:36
the rules just state caliber and barrel length, period.

shooterwolf
10-29-2007, 19:47
Degoodman,
That was a very good post. Be ethical and use enough gun .

Shooterwolf

LabTech
10-31-2007, 19:36
I'm thinkin' that a Glock 20 with some Double Tap Beartooth rounds would work nicely on an Ohio White Tail.

Walter45Auto
10-31-2007, 22:05
The regs i read 4 or 5 years ago said the overall length of a loaded handgun cartridge has to be at least 1 inch to be legal for deer. But I just went over to the DNR website, and can't find that one anywhere now. Y'all may want to know how I know this or what I have to do with it, being a Texan and all.... I have family who has some land in Ohio, and it's about the only place I get to hunt anymore.

valian
11-01-2007, 17:58
I have taken deer with .357, 45ACP, 44 and .45LC. For general purposes the 44 and 45LC are better choices than 357 and 45ACP. Being unethical in hunting is not simply a matter of caliber but how you use it. With the 45acp i limit my shots to 30 t0 40 yds and know well what my gun can do at that range ....both accuracy and bullet performance.

There are many well known hunters and one very well know gunsmith who regularly hunt with the 45LC with 250gr hard cast lead bullets at 950 fps. I can load a 230 gr lead SWC to near about 1000fps and get about the same penetraton in 45ACP, in fact I often carry that load when not carrying a .44 mag when camping in black bear country. I have also taken deer with the Rem. 230gr Golden Saber ammuniton limiting my shots to about 30 yds and only taking broadside shots behind the shoulder with perfect results. Not a thing 'unethical' about my doing so either.
I have used the .45LC 250 Gold Dot hollowpoint at 950fps to take deer with shots quartering away to 30 yds this bullet will expand and even break the far shoulder and either exit or stop in the skin on the far side. That is not my usual load in 45LC but a Speer 260gr bullet at about 1180fps is my most used load in this caliber.

valian

alwaysshootin
11-05-2007, 01:14
The ODNR has changed their definitions over the years as to what, by definition, is legal for handgun hunting of Whitetail Deer. At one time it stated use of only a revolver, but since it has changed dramatically. Heck at one time they gave a minimum, and maximum barrel length.

As far as using an auto pistol, I would not use a 45 ACP. One of the great things inherent to the acp is it's lack of over penetration. On the other hand, and I'll let you know how my 10MM works this year. Personally I figure the 10 is a perfect handgun, with the right load offering for whitetail hunting. I'm figuring a 200 gr hardcast flatpoint going somewhere around 1300 fps to have a complete pass through, no matter if ribs, or shoulders are hit. Like I said I will let you know. Would also like to add, that not because of my choice of caliber, but because of my abilities, shots will not exceed 50 yards. Of course those were my limits when using a 44 magnum also.

cloudbuster
11-15-2007, 16:16
Ruger Blackhawk comes in a .45LC/.45ACP combo. That would be a fine hunting/plinking/woods/trail gun.

gjwheels
11-24-2007, 15:33
Degoodman, you are absolutely right. I have never understood those that want to hunt dear with a handgun, no matter what the calibre. We should be looking for a humane kill and I'm not so sure that can be attained with a handgun calibre.

Armchair Commando
11-26-2007, 01:27
Degoodman, you are absolutely right. I have never understood those that want to hunt dear with a handgun, no matter what the calibre. We should be looking for a humane kill and I'm not so sure that can be attained with a handgun calibre.
You don't think a 44 magnum or 454 casull is humane to use on deer?

Ghost361
11-26-2007, 09:52
Degoodman, you are absolutely right. I have never understood those that want to hunt dear with a handgun, no matter what the calibre. We should be looking for a humane kill and I'm not so sure that can be attained with a handgun calibre.


I will let you know how efficient it is with my 686 in 357 mag shooting the Fusion boned 158's

Ghost361
11-28-2007, 13:16
Shot 2 does on Tuesday. Both one shot kills. One doe 180 lbs at 32 yards. The other one 120 lbs at 51 yards. The big girl was a lung and heart shot and dropped in her tracks. The smaller of the 2 was a double lunger and went 15 yards before falling over. My buddy took a buck at 15 yards with a 50 cal muzzleloader with a round ball a little high double lung that went 90 yards before piling up. With a good bullet the .357 mag does a damn fine job on whitetails big and small. I truly believe ethical shots are based more on conditions and placement than the choice of arms. If you are the kind of person that is willing to take a risky shot than you should probably pack the biggest gun allowed by law. But if you are willing to wait for a good ethical shot than by all means hunt with what gets the job done and ignore the naysayers. I know my freezer did.

birddog1
11-28-2007, 18:50
Degoodman, you are absolutely right. I have never understood those that want to hunt dear with a handgun, no matter what the calibre. We should be looking for a humane kill and I'm not so sure that can be attained with a handgun calibre.

I don't understand your reasoning. A few years back I shot a doe with a 480 Ruger. It wasn't any less humane or less lethal than the doe I shot yesterday with a 1.25 oz. 12 gauge slug. I've taken 6 deer over the last 3 years, 4 with my bow, 1 with my muzzleloader and 1 with the shotgun. I don't think the deer noticed any difference. As with any weapon, shot placement is key, not the weapon itself.

Matt VDW
12-02-2007, 01:05
A final nail in most semi-auto's coffins is their accuracy under field conditions. To properly anchor a deer, you better be able to place a bullet into a 8" circle on demand under field conditions. As a note for you, unless you can shoot a GSSF-Indoor match with a perfect 500 every time, you are not good enough to hold a 6" circle with your chosen semi, and that's at distances of 25 yards or less.
Would you apply that same accuracy standard to a hunter using a revolver? Very few people could shoot a perfect 500 every time with a revolver.

Ghost361
12-02-2007, 13:18
In single action with one well aimed shot most people will shoot better with a 5 or 6 inch revolver than a semi auto. Longer sight radius. And nice short trigger stroke.

anyplainjoe
12-03-2007, 12:32
Went out yesterday, didn't even see a deer. Oh well, guess I'll be breaking out the 25 NAA again next year.







Just kidding!