G36 Failure Analysis

[Liberty Ship]

I am an experienced shooter and have put thousands of rounds through my G21 with not a single malfunction of any kind.

However, I have had a G36 for some time now and have experienced malfunctions and I think I have figured them out and would be interested in your opinions.

When I got the 36 as a carry gun, I took it to the range and put a couple of hundred or rounds through it. 230 gr ball and 230 gr Hydra-Shocks, and 185 gr +P's. No problems whatsoever. However, I did confirm what everyone said -- it pinched my little finger.

Sometime later, I went to shoot again and experienced a failure to feed with a 230 gr standard pressure ball cartridge. Simply assisting the slide forward caused it to chamber. There were no further problems.

So yesterday I went to the range and fired about 250 rounds or mixed ball, HydraShock, and 230 gr +P loaded with Gold Dot's. I experienced one failure to extract with the standard pressure 230 gr ball, and two instances of the slide failing to lock back. Perhaps coincidendally, both slide lock problems happened with the same mag - a new one I had purchased, OEM Glock. The session left me with a blood blister on my little finger.

Here is what I think. I think it was operator error. I think that once I learned in the first session that the thing was going to pinch my little finger, in subsequent sessions I was tending to relax my little finger (and thus, perhaps my ring and middle finger), causing a de facto "limp wristing" of the gun. I think that the Hydra-Shocks and the +P's were hot enough to compensate for this but the combination of my grip and the standard pressure rounds caused an occaisional problem, including, perhaps, the slide lock problem (if the slide did not slam far enough back for the lock to have time to snap into place).

I am now lubricating the side rails, and the top inside of the slide with Tetra grease. I am also rubbing a microscopic amount on the feed ramp to the barrel and the metallic tab in the front of the mag leaving no residue whatsoever. I believe that with better attention to my grip on the pistol and the use of hotter rounds (230gr +P) I have a reliable defensive pistol. Time, of course, will tell.

Your thoughts?

[CarlosDJackal]

Try shooting the same supected magazine with your pinky extended. Just make sure you are using a good grip to do so. If you cannot make it malfunction, then your analysis may be correct. I wold also have someone try the same gun-magazine-ammo combination just to be sure.

FWIW, I have found that I can shoot my G27 without using my pinky (flush magazine). If you find that this magazine seems to make you relax your grip because of the pinching, maybe you should look into installing an extended floorplate onto it and see if that makes a difference.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Liberty Ship]

Thanks, Carlos. I'll try that drill next time I'm at the range.

[Tphipps]

One thing I have found with small guns like the Glock 36, and for some reason, my Beretta 92G, is that my thumb on my left hand (I am right handed) will sometimes reach over my right thumb and ride the slide when I am firing. This is enough with light loads to cause a failure to feed or a failure to lock the slide after the last round is fired. If I am careful about that left thumb I never, or at least rarely, have a failure to feed or lock back.

Just my 2 cents.

Tim

[RCS]

With my G36 and 4 factory mags, the pinching (for me) was caused by the magazine moving up & down when firing/slide reciprocating.

My solution was to relieve the bottom front of the grip. I made a curved cresent similar in shape to the cut-out found on Glock's compact and full size pistols. I also reduced the front outside diameter of the magazines floorplate where your little finger wraps around. Used very coarse grade sandpaper progressing up in grit to very fine.

No more finger pinching.

regards

[ParaGlock]

I don't get pinching, but if I'm not careful about how I grab it I can get a good whack to the second knuckle of my middle finger on my shooting hand from the bottom of the trigger guard, due to recoil. I may try to relieve that contact point with a Dremel tool (from the trigger guard, not my finger).

For now I'm trying to figure out the best way to carry my G21, since it fits my hand so much better. 'Course, I often have the Para C7.45 instead, but only when the weight won't bother me. Oh, the agony of choice! :)

-- PG

[Liberty Ship]

I put the 36 through its paces tonight using 230 gr Hydra Shocks exclusively and with a bit more focus on my gripping technique. The Hydra Shocks are somewhat hotter than my standard practice ammo. No problems. I think the 36 does better on hotter ammo, or maybe the hotter ammo causes me to intensify my grip reducing "limp wristing." The 36 is definietly a keeper.

RCS, I will think about relieving the grip as you suggested. My concern would be that it might all even more "rocking." I can live with the pinch if I know I have to.

Paraglock, I carry my 21 in a regular Fobus paddle holster. Not as concealable as the 36, but easier to hide than you would think. The extra barrel length and grip length just tends to catch on things like car seats, chair arms, etc.

[DaveR120]

I have a G36 and truly believe in it as a primary carry gun - since - I discovered the proper way to grip it without having a 'Failure to Feed'.

I found the the thin grip and the 'pinching' everyone keeps refering to had an adverse effect on my grip, which led to 'weak-wrisitng' the grip and caused numerous failures to feed. I was able to work through it using a golf glove with the trigger finger cut off. After practicing with it that way for a while, I found I was able to maintain a good grip consistently without the glove, which caused all the failures to stop - In particular those failures that needed just a nudge to get the round to chamber properly.

Same ammo, just better grip worked for me.

[CarlosDJackal]

FWIW, I had some malfunctions during the first 300 rounds of shooting my Glock 30. Most were failures to extract (CCI Blazers).

Give it some break-in time since the 2-stage recoil spring of the G30 & 36 seem to prefer hotter loads until broken in.

Good luck!!

[grenadier]

Interesting...

So far, I have not noticed any "pinching" of my pinky, even after I fired 100 rounds of standard pressure ammo (my own handloads).

The only thing I felt was from that "target" trigger they put on it. It started to make my trigger finger numb.

[Liberty Ship]

Thank you all for the feed back. I believe that I am at the bottom of my G36 failures and, perhaps, all the rest I have heard about.

My 36 seems to be very reliable with hot ammo. It is also reliable if I am careful with my grip. However, hot ammo compensates for a bad grip. I have settled in with 230gr +P's for it.

Perhaps now that it has more than 500 rounds through it, however, it will be just as reliable as my G21 regardless. I got spoiled with the G21; I had never had a firearm which NEVER malfunctioned and this is what caused me concern with the few malfunctions I had with the 36.

[CarlosDJackal]

Originally posted by grenadier
....The only thing I felt was from that "target" trigger they put on it. It started to make my trigger finger numb.

This is why I installed a smooth trigger onto my G30 (took it off my G21). Try shooting 800 rounds in 2 days sometime.

[denfoote]

I have small hands, so the gripping problem never gave me any trouble. The only problem I have had with mine is when I had the extended slide stop installed. Got many jams. However, this was solved by taking a couple of mills off the end of the slide stop. 50 rounds of 230gr hardball and 20 rounds of 230gr Remington GS later, it has returned to it's ever reliable self!!! I have not experienced the failure you described.

[TNRonin]

with my 36, the 30 I had would pinch the hell out of my finger with the "extended" grip. I shot the short 9 round when possible for the comfort issue. Watch using the extender on that 36, I had a pearce and had nothing but disappointment. It caused many malfunctions and would not eject because that filler part they have on the magazine hangs on the meat/heel of your hand. It won't drop free. I took it off after that session.

I'm getting another G21 for my home gun, and the G36 is my carry gun, I LOVE THAT SUCKER!