View Full Version : Official Kneepads response from IDPA HQ
ryucasta
05-07-2002, 13:36
I originally posted this thread on the 1911 forum I'm also posting it here for informational purposes.
The following is the Official IDPA response to the kneepad question from Dru Robbins at IDPA HQ. By their own admission they state it’s a rule but it’s not in the rulebook.
I would think that they have had more than enough time since 1999 to amend the rulebook with this particular rule. But then again it might be that the person who updates the rulebook might be a member of the procrastinators club. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: IDPA
To: Akula
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: 1911Forum Board - Kneepads & IDPA.htm
Mr. xxxxxxxxx,
That does not appear in the rulebook at this time, but is in fact a rule.
Thanks,
Dru Robbins
IDPA Coordinator
-----Original Message-----
From: Akula
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:01 PM
To: info@idpa.com
Subject: 1911Forum Board - Kneepads & IDPA.htm
To whom it may concern,
Could you all provide clarification on this topic, it doesn’t appear in the rulebook and quite frankly I don’t have the tactical journal the moderator is mentioning in his response.
Sincerely,
xxxx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx states:
xxxxx:
I found your answer. The rule came out in the Tactical Journal, Third Quarter 1999, Volume 3, Issue 3. It was in an article by Ken Hackathorn, Safety Officer Seminars 99, page 6:
"Kneepads can be worn, but must be under your garment out of view. If there is a problem with a surface that the contestant must kneel on, then it is the Match Director or Chief SO's requirement to pad the surface to prevent knee injury."
Thank you all for the help in researching the answer. The thread is closed.
Old news... Doesn't mean it makes sense, but it's the rule. So at your next IDPA match, don't bring knee pads, bring a 2 ft x 3ft piece of carpet and argue the safety issue with the match director. Ask them if you can wear cleats if the surface is too slippery to be safe....
Custom Glock Racing
05-07-2002, 18:22
Or just sue for negligence when you get a knee injury.
matt
Mayonaise
05-08-2002, 06:30
Or better yet. Stay at home.
Mark
HeadHunter
05-08-2002, 07:58
Originally posted by Mayonaise
Or better yet. Stay at home.
Mark
My Man!
ryucasta
05-08-2002, 14:11
My issue here isn’t really the kneepads it more and issue with how the IDPA organization is run. It just seems to me by their response that they have an unidentified number of unwritten rules. I truly never expected a response like that from them. After all they do collect dues and what do you get for those dues, a hat and a rulebook that’s not current or even complete. It’s funny how they charge the same as USPSA and yet they cant provide a website where your classifiers are posted or even a magazine like Front Sight which has a large contributor list.
I would have expected, better yet I would demand as a dues paying member a real rulebook and not this concept of rules buried in a 3-year-old issue of IDPA’s Tactical Journal.
"Stay at home" Well, there you go. Perfect solution. Supports, and promotes, NOT, the whole shooting industry. Like you 2 have your own action pistol matches and competitors and sponsors are beating down your door? For what? You stay at home! Couch Competitor WannaBees Hey! CCW's
Video Tape! Thats how CCW's compete!
HeadHunter
05-08-2002, 22:56
Originally posted by 9x45
"Stay at home" Well, there you go. Perfect solution. Supports, and promotes, NOT, the whole shooting industry. Like you 2 have your own action pistol matches and competitors and sponsors are beating down your door?
Actually, both Mayo and myself ARE running our own IDPA matches and yes we BOTH have more people coming to the matches than we really need or want. That's why we say, "if you don't like it, stay home." People who stay home REALLY make us happy and make our lives easier.
I don't give a damn about supporting the whole shooting industry and in fact I do turn sponsors away. What I want is to provide a format for people who actually carry or have guns for self defense to practice with their carry equipment on a regular basis.
While I am sure it is common in Southern California and San Fransisco to wear kneepads around all the time, normal people don't. That's why we don't allow kneepads at our matches.
I'll tell you what, all you people who wants to write your own rule book will have the opportunity to do so soon. One or may be more of the Board of Directors will retire, HQ will be searching for replacements. You should apply, I'm sure you can do much better job. And by the way, I ran a club for 3 years before passing it off to Mayo, I have seen my share of jagoffs tactical swat wannabees, and I have ran off my shares of doofi.
Jim Watson
05-09-2002, 00:10
Claude,
Not to be contentious, but because I am shooting at your match this Saturday and need to be clear on the matter, are you saying that kneepads under pants per HQ announcement are NOT allowed by local range rule?
I don't wear electronic earmuffs and safety glasses to the ATM, either, but that does not mean they are not essential RANGE safety equipment when I am going to be shooting all day. I view kneepads the same way.
Jim w.
Jim,
Soft kneepads UNDER the pants are perfectly fine for our match.
Richard
Rangemaster
HeadHunter
05-09-2002, 02:29
As the Rangemaster said, soft kneepads underneath your pants are fine.
Custom Glock Racing
05-09-2002, 03:17
While I am sure it is common in Southern California and San Fransisco to wear kneepads around all the time, normal people don't. That's why we don't allow kneepads at our matches.
I dont see normal people walking around in safety glasses and earmuffs all day. I dont either, but If I were out in the world going about my business and I knew I was going to be running on a looses surface (grass, dirt gravel etc) I would wear cleats. If were going to be kneeling alot, I would wear kneepads on the outside, fashionable or not.
Cleats, kneepads, glasses, and earmuffs and safety equipment, afterall IDPA is a GAME and most games allow for safety equipment because they want to prevent injury.
If you want to be real, lose the clock and the scoreboard and have the targets shoot back.
matt
ryucasta
05-09-2002, 03:18
It seems like the some of the illustrious citizens of that former penal colony just cant express and opinion without being insulting to others.
If my initial exposure to IPSC and IDPA had been with individuals like Headhunter or Mayonnaise your probably right I would have not participated in this hobby, but fortunately here in Southern California I have met and competed with individuals like Mike Dalton, Jojo Vidanes and KC Eusebio just to name a few and I can truly say I have learned from them.
What I have learned from you gentlemen is how I don’t want my children or myself to treat other individuals who we might not agree with.
ryucasta
05-09-2002, 03:48
Matt,
I could not have said it better.
Mtrclass
05-09-2002, 11:41
As much as I hate to reenter this thread, I find I must........
While a local club should be allowed to do whatever they feel they need to do, they also have an obligation to follow the rules of the orgination sanctioning the event. In the matter of the kneepads, it seems that the club in question is doing so. My problem is with IDPA and both the rules that they past, and the way they inform the membership about them.
"If it isn't in the rulebook then it is not a rule."
IDPA makes a lot of noise about being a defensive shooting sport, requiring its competitors to act in tactically correct manner. Based on well over a decade of working in a world that requires you to be tactically sound in order to survive, I am of the opinion that most of IDPA's tactically correct techniques are useless on the street and teach you nothing but bad habits. To believe that you can learn to survive a gunfight using IDPA's concept of what is necessary and right is a sure way to get yourself, or someone else, hurt.
Kneepads and cleats are tactically sound for the same reason that a gun is tactically sound. If they allow you to preform at a higher level, or gain an advantage over the BG they are a good thing. When I get dressed for work, depending on my assignment, I wear boots that have cleats, kneepads, shooting glasses, a vest, electronic ear muffs, and anything else I think will help me.
Beyond the tactical correctness of using this equipment, there is also a safety issue that needs to be addressed. Kneepads and cleats will go a long ways toward preventing needless injuries. Just like shooting glasses and hearing protection. Remember, poeple that are hurt, aren't paying entry fees, and attending your matches.
The biggest problem with IDPA is that it is most often run by self appointed experts and tactical plumbers. I guess if you read enough magazines, and compete for a few months without hurting someone, anyone can be an expert.
By the way, I am a California native and wear kneepads on a regular basis. If you think being from Altanta makes you more of a man then being from California, drop by sometime and I will be happy to show you what I do when I am on my knee's. O'course you might just leave without something you came with, but being an inbred southerner only your sister will miss it.....................
HeadHunter
05-09-2002, 12:19
Originally posted by Mtrclass
being an inbred southerner only your sister will miss
Actually, I am a refugee from Chicago. Came to a place with better weather and where one can legally carry a gun.
Kneepads, cleats, etc., they're great if you are a police officer or bounty hunter or D-boy, but that subpopulation is a miniscule fraction of the gun-owning populace. Unfortunately, the "lessons learned" from that subpopulace have as much to do with the average person's defense needs as the lessons learned by the Rangers and D-boys in Mogadishu, which is practically none.
There's a post on 1911 forum about my analysis of "The Armed Citizen" and what our (because I include myself in the Armed Citizen category) incidents and defense needs are like.
As far as chest thumping goes, I am a retired Army Captain, who was an enlisted man for ten years. I served in Airborne, Ranger, SF, and Mech units, commanded a Special Forces A-Team and an Infantry rifle company. Both my father and grandfather were bodyguards for politicians in Chicago and they taught me early and well. I have all the bona fides that I need for what I do and say. I wore knee pads too, but only on helicopters when I was the rappelmaster.
Mayonaise
05-09-2002, 13:17
Ya know. Some of you guys need to lighten up. It astonishes me that people are so thin skinned to actually call people out over a discussion of game rules. It is exactly that type of nitpicking over analizing BS that ruins the sport. Instead of biatching and moaning on web boards. Support your position and direct it to the board. Just make it damned good if you expect a rule change.
Mark
Mayonaise
05-09-2002, 13:31
Originally posted by ryucasta
It seems like the some of the illustrious citizens of that former penal colony just cant express and opinion without being insulting to others.
If my initial exposure to IPSC and IDPA had been with individuals like Headhunter or Mayonnaise your probably right I would have not participated in this hobby, but fortunately here in Southern California I have met and competed with individuals like Mike Dalton, Jojo Vidanes and KC Eusebio just to name a few and I can truly say I have learned from them.
What I have learned from you gentlemen is how I don’t want my children or myself to treat other individuals who we might not agree with.
I truly appologize for bruising your delicate sensibilities.
Sincerely,
Mark Mayo
Originally posted by Mayonaise
I truly appologize for bruising your delicate sensibilities.
Sincerely,
Mark Mayo
Wait a minute, you apologized to some no name nicknamed masked man? And you wouldn't apologize to Dane? I have no use for you range Nazi.
ryucasta
05-09-2002, 14:01
Ricky T,
As a good friend of mine told me once many years ago, its better to have people think you the fool than have them know for certain that you are one…
mcsd2598
05-10-2002, 12:26
So the only question remaining is....
Who won the pi$$ing contest??
Seriously, its (optional) safety equipment. If you want to use it, by all means do so. If you don't, then don't. I personally don't want to dig gravel out of my knee. But if I have to shoot with out it for self defense the last thing on my mind is whether or not I'm gonna loose my hearing or pull glass\gravel out of my knee. The only advantages for gaming that I see are how fast you can drop to your knees. If this makes makes that much of a difference in your time, bring me back something from national's.
I do agree though that the rule book should be more clear on the rules. But, I would suspect that most leagues differ from place to place. That's why you should have a experienced match director and follow his guide lines.
I appluad the imagination and creativity of those running the matches I have participated in. Some people put a lot of thought into this. But everyone would go nuts if you were told "at the next match it will be all Home Invasion scenario's. Wear your PJ's, boxers, come nude, or whatever you sleep in" Or "from now on you can't wear eye and ear protection only what you wear during normal activities because its not in the spirit of IDPA"
IDPA, IPSC, and other matches are great games. Good practice. And real enough to let you make it what you want it to be.
Head and Mayo, no kidding? running your OWN matches... Well, like, I totally, don't like, know, at all, about matches. Dudes, take a clue! I have been running IDPA matches since March of '97. The only reason we didn't get cranked in November of '96 was the GEEZER BOARD OF DIRECTORS takes, like forever. By the way, how many STATE and REGIONAL level matches have you done??? You know of course, the IDPA was founded in Oct '96... October 26th, to be exact. Well, the very same day as the 2002 IDPA Western Regionals in Southern Califorina!!!
As far as kneepads, I had a 9mm case stick in my knee at the 2000 Regionals and squirted blood for the rest of the day. KNEE PADS ARE A SAFETY ISSUE, NOTHING LESS, NOTHING MORE.
Even Tactical Plumbers were KNEE PADS>>>
Originally posted by HeadHunter
As far as chest thumping goes, I am a retired Army Captain, who was an enlisted man for ten years. I served in Airborne, Ranger, SF, and Mech units, commanded a Special Forces A-Team and an Infantry rifle company. Both my father and grandfather were bodyguards for politicians in Chicago and they taught me early and well. I have all the bona fides that I need for what I do and say. I wore knee pads too, but only on helicopters when I was the rappelmaster.
And for that he commands your respect when you talk to him, are we clear on that?
As for my own chest thumping, I have SOed in three state matches, and was a Rangemaster for another, I have shot in three National. I've never been DQed in the National for using illegal equipment nor for safety reason, you can't say that for a certain former IPSC master who was DQed two years ago. So there ! Your turn.
Originally posted by Mtrclass:
By the way, I am a California native and wear kneepads on a regular basis. If you think being from Altanta makes you more of a man then being from California, drop by sometime and I will be happy to show you what I do when I am on my knee's. O'course you might just leave without something you came with, but being an inbred southerner only your sister will miss it.....................
Not to mention your Mom... Putz
Wheeler
ryucasta
05-11-2002, 15:38
Ricky T,
As a child I was taught and I still live by these words that respect is earned. If what your associate says is true then he doesn’t really fit the profile of individuals who I have met who actually were involved in those organizations.
Those individuals were always low-key and they wouldn’t waste their time arguing over such petty matters nor would they go around boasting like a cock in the morning about their achievements. But it could be that the individuals I know are anomalies and your associates are the norm.
BTW, cant you for once in your life keep your responses in line with the original intent of the posted thread and if you cant then just ignore it and maybe spend sometime with your family I guarantee you’ll feel better for it.
Headhunter was a low key individual until Mtrclass insulted him. I don't know if you have ever seen much less associated with the SF types, but they are alpha males, when they are challenged or insulted they will reply.
I wasn't the one to stray off course.
Regarding the original intent of the thread;
IPSC has been around since the 70's, IDPA has been around for less than ten years. It's no small wonder that IPSC rules are more clearly defined than IDPA rules are at this point and time.
Unfortunaltly, those of us that shoot IDPA are playing a game, a game that was setup by others, and is currently administered by others. It's their game, and we have to play by their rules. The only way around that is to set up your own game.
I might add that as kneepads and cleats are very commonly seen in IPSC, that might be part of the aversion the BoD has to allowing their use in IDPA. I might also add that you should not be moving more than a total of ten yards in an entire stage, The rules do clearly state that IDPA is not to develop into a footrace. That's in the rule book, not an obscure tactical journal.
Wheeler
ryucasta
05-11-2002, 16:29
Ricky T,
Little history lesson, after the Vietnam war their wasn’t much of a need for the services of Special Forces or Seals so Uncle Sam offered to retrain these individuals in a number of different industries. I was fortunate enough to know a few who happened to make it into high tech. These individuals would never lose their composure no matter how bad the situation was since they were setting the example for others.
Most of them were Officers within their respective organizations and I have personally used them as roles models in my own career. I especially have fond memories, of one individual who was my mentor when I first start in high tech 24 years ago and I have tried to live by his example.
So I really thought it was out of form for your associate to respond as he did, since the individuals I know would have seen the posting as a non threat and ignored it vs. boasting as your associate did about his past accomplishments which when you look at it at face value it doesn’t matter.
With regards to your statement about Alpha Males, most competitive males tend to be Alpha so its just a matter of refinement are you a street brawler or a boxer? Do you fight everything and everyone or do you pick your fights based on ROI?
Man o man this thread has really gone off on a tangent from kneepads to SF and Alpha males I'm still wondering how we got here.
:cool:
Dump1567
05-11-2002, 17:17
I would just like to say that I've enjoyed this tread very much. I've gotten many a laugh out of it. Keep-up the good work. As for knee pads, I'm all for them. This is due to the sore knee I have every time I don't use one. I also feel that the rules of any GAME should be in writing for all to read. I won't list all my creditals, because I don't really have any. I'm just here to shoot and follow the rules of the game.;f
Mayonaise
05-11-2002, 22:56
Originally posted by ryucasta
These individuals would never lose their composure no matter how bad the situation was since they were setting the example for others. :cool:
I have known Headhunter and Ricky T for 3 years. I have never seen either lose their cool. Make personal attacks expect a response. I saw no indication of anyone losing their cool other than Mtrclass.
Relax.
Mark
Mayonaise
05-11-2002, 23:23
Originally posted by 9x45
Head and Mayo, no kidding? running your OWN matches... Well, like, I totally, don't like, know, at all, about matches. Dudes, take a clue! I have been running IDPA matches since March of '97. The only reason we didn't get cranked in November of '96 was the GEEZER BOARD OF DIRECTORS takes, like forever. By the way, how many STATE and REGIONAL level matches have you done??? You know of course, the IDPA was founded in Oct '96... October 26th, to be exact. Well, the very same day as the 2002 IDPA Western Regionals in Southern Califorina!!!
Obviously more "California Speak". Took me a second to decode it.
I have been a Chief SO for 3 state matches and attended the 2001 Nationals as a competitor. I am currently Match Director for an IDPA club in Atlanta and run weekly matches.
As far as kneepads, I had a 9mm case stick in my knee at the 2000 Regionals and squirted blood for the rest of the day. KNEE PADS ARE A SAFETY ISSUE, NOTHING LESS, NOTHING MORE.
Even Tactical Plumbers were KNEE PADS>>>
Sorry for your blood loss.
It is your responsibilty to make sure the area where you are required to kneel or go prone is policed of debris prior to your run. As an SO for a our state match yesterday I had a stage which required the competitor to move to a position and kneel. As SO's we made sure the carpet padding was clear of any debris (casings and stones) prior to each run as a courtesy. But that really is the shooters responsibility IMO. Again if a competitor choses to wear knee pads under his pants that's their choice. Since there has been clarification on this rule I don't see the point in discussing it anymore.
As a side note my own opinion about these rule wranglings seems to come from the influx of IPSC competitors that also shoot IDPA as fill in for their open weekends until the next IPSC match. My own experience is that the grumblings is from these shooters who seem to want IPSC rules in IDPA. Which is exactly why IDPA was created. These are also the same shooters who receive procedural errors, penalties and DQ's because they are unable to discern what rule set they are under when the buzzer goes off. The one or two times I've shot IPSC I've shot it under IDPA rules as that is my chosen sport. Quite naturally and expectedly my scores reflected that. Not that I cared.
If you want to shoot both. Make one of them a priority and the other as practice. It's not the fault of IDPA if IDPA rules cause IPSC shooters to take penalties, FTDR's and DQ's. Safety issuses asside. Conversely, I don't think competing in an IPSC match using the IDPA rule set ever causes those penalties. I could be wrong.
Mark
Dump,
I'm glad you're enjoying this thread. :) Stick around maybe we'll get on other topics also. Since that california guy called us inbreds, maybe we'll discuss other things like teethless mothers, chewing tobacco, and nascars.
With all due respect to those responding to the original question of the thread, I agree with what both sides have said but I'm confused to how this has deteriorated to IPSC vs IDPA shooters.
When a new shooter plans on getting into the SPORT, and they take it upon themselve to actually read the rulebook, how does one become aware of rules not included in the rulebook? My experience with IDPA shows great variance from hosting club to club when it comes to these sublte understanding of rules. If, as has been posted, that kneepads are legal under clothing and illegal exposed, then why is it unreasonable to ask that it is included in the rulebook?
It's not about IPSC shooters wanting IPSC rules imported into IPDA's rulebook (as I see it), it is simply wanting rules followed as stated in the published rulebook. In my experience, I follow these "soft" rules as I become notified by the individual match director which can be embarassing when one club says something is ok and the other club says it's not.
Again, I don't mean to inflame this discussion. To me, it's about those that like to have a "bible" to follow in the sport they are playing in. When there are unstated rules, that can only be found out by breaking them (or emailing IDPA officials), it can make new shooters (whom were responsible to read the provided rulebook) feel as though the rules of the game are being changed without being notified. I don't see the harm in asking that the rulebook be up to date and accurate as to the interpretation of the governing officials. We want to play in the game and follow the rules, just let us know what they are. It shouldn't have to take an email message to IDPA to know the rules or being embarrassed by a match director when a shooter comes to the line with a kneepad on when the weekend before, at another match, the SO said it was ok.
ryucasta
05-12-2002, 01:59
Bongo,
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
HeadHunter
05-12-2002, 02:46
Originally posted by 9x45
Head and Mayo, no kidding? running your OWN matches... By the way, how many STATE and REGIONAL level matches have you done
Thank you for asking. I have been the Match Director for the Georgia State IDPA Championship for 3 years, the last time being yesterday. Mayo has been one of my CSOs each time. RickyT was one of my CSOs for the first two years and was my Rangemaster (2IC) this year.
I have also SO'd or CSO'd the IDPA Nationals for the past 3 years. How about you?
This thread has deteriorated in interest, so pardon me if I don't follow it much more.
shootingbuff
05-12-2002, 03:35
Quickly went over the thread.
Bottom line it is not mentioned in the "rulebk" last update was 5-2-01.
Seems if the TJ comment held water it would have been added.
I will be the first to say the rule bk needs to be redone. That said for the content that it already has.
My creds are better than yours sounds childish, no flame just an observation. Besides, common sense and safety should always be formost. Doen't take creds for that, just working, sloshing around, gray matter between the ears. Again no flame.
sb
Sorry to interrupt the fun, but I thought I might return to the original topic.
Honestly, if you need kneepads to protect your knees, you're probably doing something wrong. The last I checked, I didn't find any IDPA sccenarios that required the shooter to slide in to a shooting position, or to slam their knees into the ground. If you're doing either of these things, you're breaking the rule of "Smooth is fast".
The only times I've personally seen IDPA shooters draw blood was when two different guys thought they needed to slide in and engage a target array. They both got hurt and they both had confused the need for quickness with the need for breakneck speed.
If you're dropping to a knee so hard that you hurt yourself, you're most definitely disturbing your sight picture along the way. If you aren't getting a sight picture on the way down, and breaking the shot as your knee touches the ground, then you're wasting time.
While I agree that some folks may need kneepads for medical/physical reasons, the rules of IDPA allow them that right if they can hide them with long pants. I really can't see what the problem is, nor can I understand why these topics always degenerate into d!ck measuring contests.
The above comments apply only to IDPA, as my experience with IPSC field courses is pretty limited.
I apologize for deviating from the topic of insults and one-upsmanship. If anyone needs to insult me, please do so by private email so that any potential IDPA/IPSC shooters can't see it and be turned off by your behavior.
HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!!! :)
HeadHunter
05-12-2002, 04:20
Originally posted by ryucasta
Those individuals were always low-key and they wouldn’t waste their time arguing over such petty matters nor would they go around boasting like a cock in the morning about their achievements. But it could be that the individuals I know are anomalies and your associates are the norm.
In looking over the thread, I don't see that I ever threatened to bite anyone's you-know-what off, nor have I made any statements that someone else is inbred, nor have I said anything about anyone else being involved in an incestous relationship with their sister and/or mother. Nor in fact have I insulted anyone. OTOH, some posters have insulted me and the members of the IDPA BOD (those GEEZERS), cast aspersions on the way the organization is run, and denounced the tactical aspects of IDPA, some of which (e.g., the Mag Change with Retention) have now been adopted by the FBI.
My posts have been civil and factual. In return, I have been insulted and libeled (e.g., I can prove I'm not inbred, therefore calling me that in print is libel) by the posters from the West Coast. I don't consider establishing my bona fides to speak on a subject to be boasting. Ultimately, anyone who purports to have standing to speak as an authority on a subject will have to establish their CV, as any expert witness can attest to. However, my resume does not appear on my signature line.
I do enjoy rhetoric and I admit that I have kept the thread running past its useful course and let it stray off topic. For that, I express my apologies to the group.
HeadHunter
05-12-2002, 04:22
Originally posted by Delmont
I apologize for deviating from the topic of insults and one-upsmanship. If anyone needs to insult me, please do so by private email so that any potential IDPA/IPSC shooters can't see it and be turned off by your behavior.
My Man!
I apologize to HeadHunter, RickyT and Mayo for the sarcastic comments. But, I am going to continue to allow kneepads at my matches.
Mayonaise
05-12-2002, 09:25
Originally posted by 9x45
I apologize to HeadHunter, RickyT and Mayo for the sarcastic comments. But, I am going to continue to allow kneepads at my matches.
Accepted and returned 9x45. You're all welcome to our matches anytime.
Thanks guys.
Mark
Mtrclass
05-12-2002, 13:11
For that he earns the right to an opinion, respect must be earned every day............
As a new shooter to the IDPA world the "implied" rules suck bigtime. I'm learning the ropes and then some guy says "You can't do that in IDPA" So I say show me the rule... You know the rest of the story...
We have IDPA style shoots at the local range with a run what ya brung attitude. We all have a blast and get to play with all the toys safely. It's all a learning experience and nice to just BS with a bunch of different shooters. And we pad any kneeling surface.
Jack
Dump1567
05-15-2002, 14:57
Mtrclass,
What's a tactical plumber.;f
Tactical Plumber is a term for a self annoited tactical and weapon systems expert, with lots of regurgitated dogma and no real life experience, who actually makes a living as a plumber....
slidelock1
05-16-2002, 02:31
I am still trying to figure out what the South and Atlanta have to do with one another anymore. The last time I was in Atlanta it looked like Sherman never left. You can still experince the Good ole'south in Nashville, Charleston, MObile and several other cities.
Dump1567
05-16-2002, 02:32
Thanks. I've had that term stuck in my head since I read it. Wasn't sure where the plumber part came from.
Mtrclass
05-16-2002, 04:27
Dump,
About 5 years ago I was assigned to the Training Academy for our dept. My partner and I at the time were teaching a series of Dymanic Entry Classes for SWAT Teams both in our dept and other So Cal Dept. My partner at that time was just beginning to shoot competition matches and we were attending a match that was advertised as being a Tactical match.
On one of the stages we were to preform a house clearing. After my partner had competed the course of fire a fellow competitor (and club offical) came up to him and told him how screwed up he was and how he didn't know any thing at all about tactical entries and housing clearing. We asked the club offical what he did for a living because he didn't seem to know a thing about tactic's or house clearing or dymanic entries. He stated he was a plumber, a tactical plumber.
Ever since we have referred to wannabes with more mouth then expereince as......................TACICAL PLUMBERS
There is too much bickering here. I do not allow personal attacks. In the future, please try to be civil. It is possible to disagree without fighting or name calling.:(
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