View Full Version : Would you die for your guns?
If they banned all guns tomorrow and told you that you had to turn in your guns or go to jail, would you turn them in, or would you shoot it out with the cops or whoever when they came to your house to get you? Alot of people say "They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead fingers" but are you really willing to die for your right to own a gun?
As a single person I know I would fight and die if need be to protect my right. But I wonder if someone with a family and kids would feel the same way. If you die defending your right to own guns, what would happen to your loved ones? How would their lives be impacted by your death? So again, would you REALLY be willing to die to keep your guns, or would you turn them in?
Good question.
One thing to consider. . . there are a LOT more police officers that are going to come to the aid of 'one of their own' if he/they call for 'back-up, shots fired'.
You'd probably leave quite a bloodstain on your firearms before they end up with them.
Me?????
I lost all of my guns in a card game, to several of the fine folks right here on GT.
I know Shoeless has at least two of them. Okie got three. G&K Lady got 6 of them. XMM took 4 or 5 of them. I've really lost count of how many these folks took.
(I'm not a very good poker player. Or was it Bridge? Rummy? Or, was it Hearts?)
The Police won't be getting anything, here.
dave_pro2a
11-24-2007, 13:34
Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
And then you can ask yourself, would you die to ensure your family's freedom. Isn't your son or daughter worth a sacrafice, or at least risk.
Have you read much Thomas Paine? To summerize one of his articles, "pray that you fight the war now, so your son doesn't end up having to fight the war FOR you."
There are prolly some here that wouldn't.
What if the first people to ever give up their lives for freedom here decided that they wouldn't because of their families? Some did, and their families died even before they were able to realize the sacrifice their loved ones made.
IF.....that's a BIG if.....it ever came down to it, I would. Don't think I'll ever see the time come in the rest of my living days.
Good question.
One thing to consider. . . there are a LOT more police officers that are going to come to the aid of 'one of their own' if he/they call for 'back-up, shots fired'.
You'd probably leave quite a bloodstain on your firearms before they end up with them.
Me?????
I lost all of my guns in a card game, to several of the fine folks right here on GT.
I know Shoeless has at least two of them. Okie got three. G&K Lady got 6 of them. XMM took 4 or 5 of them. I've really lost count of how many these folks took.
(I'm not a very good poker player. Or was it Bridge? Rummy? Or, was it Hearts?)
The Police won't be getting anything, here.
Yup....the boat sank.
Don't remember which lake though....I took a pretty good rap to the skull.
HollowHead
11-24-2007, 13:47
Let's see...almost 400 million firearms in the United States, how many centuries would it take for total confiscation even if every LEO, NG and military was on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week? HH
dave_pro2a
11-24-2007, 13:48
Yup....the boat sank.
Don't remember which lake though....I took a pretty good rap to the skull.
Will you stick to that story when they start pulling out finger nails?
Or stuffing electrodes into your...
Or cutting off your fingers, one digit at a time.
Oh wait, just kidding ;) They'd never do that.
How about this, they'd just lock up your family, take away your food, turn off your electricity and water, etc. Oh wait, they'd never do that.
Everyone talks about this mythical boat accident. Do you think that the grabbers will be any dumber than the IRS? Sorry Mr. Tax man, I didn't earn a dime all year. I lived by subsistance fishing... :::clink:::
Clyde in CO
11-24-2007, 13:57
ok, suspending all reality, if the "turn them all in or you go to jail" law is passed and they really were going to go door to door and kill anyone who didn't comply ... I'd launch a guerrilla war starting with a strike on the local agency office in charge of carrying out the confiscation.
so they'd never really have a chance to come to my home, I'd take it to them.
FullClip
11-24-2007, 13:57
Don't think I'd be one of those who would relish "goin' down shooting", but I do think I'd be willing to move elsewhere. If the USA ever came down to that condition, think I'd head north and take my chances in the woods of New Brunswick or even Quebec (in an English speaking section!)
Die for an object? Of course not.
Die for a liberty & freedom? Of course.
Attempting to fight overwhelming forces alone, with just my own firearms?
No, that is fool-hardy.
There are other (and smarter) ways to resist.
Taking up arms is merely a good way to get killed.
itisbruno
11-24-2007, 14:18
ok, suspending all reality, if the "turn them all in or you go to jail" law is passed and they really were going to go door to door and kill anyone who didn't comply ... I'd launch a guerrilla war starting with a strike on the local agency office in charge of carrying out the confiscation.
so they'd never really have a chance to come to my home, I'd take it to them.
That is the way to handle it
Die for an object? Of course not.
Die for a liberty & freedom? Of course.
Attempting to fight overwhelming forces alone, with just my own firearms?
No, that is fool-hardy.
There are other (and smarter) ways to resist.
Taking up arms is merely a good way to get killed.
Don't inject logic into a ridiculous premise. ;
Well, I think everyone on GT should get together and plan for armegeddon. A few GT'ers with AR's and AK's, etc., would probably be able to hold them off for a while.
[QUOTE=dave_pro2a;9318956]Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
And then you can ask yourself, would you die to ensure your family's freedom. Isn't your son or daughter worth a sacrafice, or at least risk....QUOTE]
YES.
PhoneCop
11-24-2007, 14:42
ok, suspending all reality, if the "turn them all in or you go to jail" law is passed and they really were going to go door to door and kill anyone who didn't comply ... I'd launch a guerrilla war starting with a strike on the local agency office in charge of carrying out the confiscation.
so they'd never really have a chance to come to my home, I'd take it to them.
ooooooh, interesting
... just sayin'
TacticalRecon
11-24-2007, 14:45
Is MOHAA PLAYER still alive? He would normally be the first to answer this one :)
Depends on the situation and I would definitely put up a fight!
If they banned all guns tomorrow and told you that you had to turn in your guns or go to jail,
Guns? What guns?
Everyone talks about this mythical boat accident. Do you think that the grabbers will be any dumber than the IRS? Sorry Mr. Tax man, I didn't earn a dime all year. I lived by subsistance fishing... :::clink:::
I would note that even the most basic tax resister can keep the IRS at bay for years before the IRS even shows up at the door wanting to confiscate things.
betyourlife
11-24-2007, 14:49
Who is going to take care of my family? You going to leave them to be raped by the jack booted thugs?
TacticalRecon
11-24-2007, 14:51
Who is going to take care of my family? You going to leave them to be raped by the jack booted thugs?
Thugs would over run anyone without a weapon so whats the point?
I'm sure alot of guys here feel that they could never ban guns here or that they wouldn't come to your door to confiscate your guns. But I'm not so sure it couldn't happen at least to some degree here. Depending on who gets elected next year we may be looking at at least some guns being banned as in the Clinton Assault Weapons ban. And as far as confiscation it happened in New Orleans after Katrina, it could happen again. I'm sure people in England and Austrailia never thought they would lose all their guns, including their hunting and family heirlooms either.
I don't know how gun registration works in free states, maybe in some states they don't keep a record of what guns you buy, or maybe they do and you just don't know it, but in Kommiefornia the state knows exactly what we own so it would be hard to hide our guns should they come pounding down our door to take our guns. That's why we would need to either shoot it out or turn them in.
itisbruno
11-24-2007, 15:14
Is MOHAA PLAYER still alive? He would normally be the first to answer this one :)
Depends on the situation and I would definitely put up a fight!
Hasn't been seen since his black friday quest for a PC at best buy ... proly got tased by a cop, bro
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r152/itisskyler/dumbpiclol.jpg
They are gettin mine bullets first.
hardballing
11-24-2007, 15:41
Just a thought here but this seems to get posed/posted about every day or so.
One thing to consider that is any action you plan alone, think of, write down is not an offense.
But actions discussed with others (uh, like here, in print) and added to ANY other action "in furtherance of said acts" would in most states constitue a conspiracy. Irrespective of any future draconion law regarding seizure, you can and may have already put your head in the bag with discussions such as these.
Again, just a thought but you never know who is reading these things, what server records can/are being requested, who can be discovered easily, etc.
(Whats that noise? Is that a Cray kicking on?)
Just consider this a paran...I mean patriotic suggestion. GOD BLESS AMERICA. I LOVE THE GOVERNMENT. VIVA LA BUSH. :)
(thanks Drew)
I would turn n my guns when the gov't disarms MS-13, KKK, Bloods/Crips, Aryan Nation, Skinheads, Mexican Mafia, Al-kaida, etc etc etc. Also,when people like hillary , nyc mayor bloomberg, chicago mayor daley disarm their gun toting body guards. Do that first, then disarm honest taxpaying citizens, otherwise you left wing brady bunch scum can go phuc yourselves....
How can anyone really know how many guns a person has? People buy, sell, trade, give, pawn, etc so many of them that it would be next to impossible to make sense of it all.
I say turn a few in and keep the rest.
As for shooting it out; there are indeed smarter ways to resist.
V.
TheGlock23Guy
11-24-2007, 16:07
I would turn n my guns when the gov't disarms MS-13, KKK, Bloods/Crips, Aryan Nation, Skinheads, Mexican Mafia, Al-kaida, etc etc etc. Also,when people like hillary , nyc mayor bloomberg, chicago mayor daley disarm their gun toting body guards. Do that first, then disarm honest taxpaying citizens, otherwise you left wing brady bunch scum can go phuc yourselves....
I still wouldn't give them up. Because i have a RIGHT to own them in the first place.
I'd launch a guerrilla war starting with a strike on the local agency office in charge of carrying out the confiscation.
Bingo....we have a winner.
rhikdavis
11-24-2007, 16:19
I keep a saturday night special to turn in when they come for mine.
"Wolverines!!!!!"
http://www.freewebs.com/vforvendettagallery/index-center.jpg
BringThaChaos
11-24-2007, 16:46
Break a window in my house and report all the guns stolen the day the law is passed. A window costs less than the guns.
jakemccoy
11-24-2007, 17:09
Hi,
The short answer is that I would fight for my freedom and my family’s freedom. If the government tried to take my guns from my home “for the safety of the public” or something like that, I would consider my freedom taken at that point.
If convenient, I'd move away from my address on file, or at least I’d move most of my guns away from that address. I would not cooperate. I would not use force foolishly. I would use force if necessary. I like the idea of a strike on the local agency office. We each should figure out when the line into tyranny is crossed.
Regards,
Jake McCoy
P.S. Regarding the dude who made the comment about making plans here could be considered a conspiracy, that doesn't mean much in the context of this hypothetical. In this hypothetical, we'd be dealing with a government that turned gun owners into felons, so, good luck with being a "law abiding gun owner" at that point; there would be no such thing.
It's not about guns. It never was.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson
AK_Stick
11-24-2007, 17:59
I'd probably turn in one or two to make it look good, and hide the rest.
By day I'd be a law abiding, normal working guy, and at night, I have a high powered hunting rifle, and a long list of people.
Have you read much Thomas Paine? To summerize one of his articles, "pray that you fight the war now, so your son doesn't end up having to fight the war FOR you."
Thanks - everyone needs that reminder...
Will definitely be interesting WHEN it happens not IF it happens.
I believe I would do whatever it takes to prtect and provide for my family.
I also believe that posting on my home PC that I would willfully resist and kill local, state, and federal authorities, to a bunch of people I don't personally know is a really, really stupid thing to do.
I hope most of you guys aren't MySpace or FaceBook regulars.
Naptown34
11-24-2007, 18:37
Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
I'm a commissioned officer and naval aviator in the US Navy. So that questions is a no-brainer.
Would I give up all my guns???...Nope only the ones they know about.
I'm a commissioned officer and naval aviator in the US Navy. So that questions is a no-brainer.
Would I give up all my guns???...Nope only the ones they know about.
BTW....Thank you for your service, sir.
There's only one firearm they know I have, and that's my SBR, other than that, my other rifles, and pistols are safe from confiscation. Theres no way they could organize a mass gun confiscation, there's no man power for such a deed. A broad sweep of anti-gun legislature, followed by voluntary turn-ins, then the criminalization of those later caught with firearms is the only way to ban gun ownership.
Another thing you'd have to acknowledge in this hyper ridiculous, and unreal scenerio is whether or not, and how many, local LEOs, and military personnel would actually go along with such an act of treason against the people of our country.
grumpybutt
11-24-2007, 18:47
Well, so you say it can't happen ! Stop, take a deep breath, think for a moment, how many you've lost a little at a time and didn't even notice cause you were to busy with " Me Me Me " and had no concern for others and now little by little it's coming back to bite us in the a**. I feel sorry for younger generation, don't think it's looking to good for them. We had better stand up and make some big gutsy changes and soon.
...whether or not, and how many, local LEOs, and military personnel would actually go along with such an act of treason against the people of our country.
I wouldn't.
hardballing
11-24-2007, 19:07
I'm a commissioned officer and naval aviator in the US Navy. So that questions is a no-brainer.
Would I give up all my guns???...Nope only the ones they know about.
Uh, you mean like the ones conveniently listed in your tag line?
DreamWeaver88
11-24-2007, 20:17
Another thing you'd have to acknowledge in this hyper ridiculous, and unreal scenerio is whether or not, and how many, local LEOs, and military personnel would actually go along with such an act of treason against the people of our country.
Sadly, I bet that most of them would do it. "Just following orders", and all that.
DW
Everyone on here (I hope) has bought, sold, traded up, traded down, sold when things got bad, sold what they didn't really like, had too many of, couldn't find parts for, thought mags were too expensive, wanted to get rid of before the ban made illegal, wanted to make money off the ban, wife didn't like, grew out of liking them, sold when stopped hunting, etc, etc.
....and those are just what we're doing legitimately. There's no way to tell who's telling the truth and who's lying. The amount of manpower to iron it all out would be unrealistic, both logistically and politically.
So yeah, I would give them what I have (wink) ..............but I would assume that they would come looking for the rest.
V.
modestglock26
11-24-2007, 20:37
HOLY CRAP YOU GUYS ACTUALLY OWN GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I frequent these sites to compile research for my term papers. Man, ya'll must be some crazy mofos if you own guns. I better get outta here quick.
but seriously...
I live in a nice redneck town and my house is in the woods. My dogs alert me when cars come down the road, and my driveway is long. If I didn't have a family to care for, I would be deep in the woods behind my house with a scoped .308 waiting to see the car pull up. I would indeed die for my rights, but since I have a 3 month old child I think me dying over an object would be worse for my family. I would instead turn in my one and only firearm...an old Hi Standard Double 9 .22 wheelgun and then proceed to hide the rest very well.
I think there would probably be a civil war if this day ever came, at least I hope there would be. The government is here to serve the people, not make them the equivalent of cattle.
MOTHERGREEN
11-24-2007, 20:53
the point is to stop the law requiring us to report stolen guns NOW so that we can still use that excuse WHEN they take our guns... I would rather die than live as a subject under tyrany but I'll take as many of them bastitches with me as possible. for any real change to take effect in a situation like that there has to be a lot of bloodshed by patriots before the masses decide it is a worthy enough cause. if enough citizens fight and enough of them die for what they believe in.. then those who are ordered to fire on us will start to come to our side. thats how it all works.. its a bloody buisness and you have to be willing to say that though you may die your cause lives on.
zzzippper
11-24-2007, 20:56
It's easy to say yes until you are forced to choose. The real question might be, are you willing to have your kids see you shot dead and your wife a widow without support in a police state that will consider the whole family criminals?
nick__45
11-24-2007, 20:57
Yup....the boat sank.
Don't remember which lake though....I took a pretty good rap to the skull.
Is that your final answer or will you be telling a different lie when they take you to the part for some water-boarding?
Razoreye
11-24-2007, 20:58
As if this question hasn't been posed a hundred times for years and years.
Razoreye
11-24-2007, 20:59
It's easy to say yes until you are forced to choose. The real question might be, are you willing to have your kids see you shot dead and your wife a widow without support in a police state that will consider the whole family criminals?
Good thing I have neither. You have to ask yourself whether you can sleep at night knowing you had a chance and pussed out while your family is in bondage. ;)
Ron Paul for President!
http://www.autodogmatic.com/images/b2tcsmall2.png
http://dooglave.info/RonPaulOfficialYardSign.jpg
cjlandry
11-24-2007, 21:01
I would die for your freedom. I'd be dead, so I'd get nothing out of the deal.
Razoreye
11-24-2007, 21:01
For those that say no way it could happen, I'd have to sadly disagree. I would have said there was no way we could abuse the constitution but then Abraham Lincoln happened.
I like the 'broken window, someone stole them' idea...
Additionally, it's a big desert down here in AZ, folks...they would never find where I buried them.
Londo Mollari
11-24-2007, 21:08
This is why citizens' militias are such a good idea. No conspiracy there, just a bunch of fellas training under a known command structure, ready to mobilize.
Personally I think it's a good idea.
I wouldn't.
You are a LEO. I call BS.
Before you deny this, please tell me what you do when you stop a US citizen who has a pistol and no permit, or has a pistol in an area the government has deemed "off limits" or has a automatic rifle that is not registered.
If your answer is "Nothing, contrary to the laws I am sworn to uphold, he has the Constitutional right to carry weapons, regardless of the law. I will let him go without any action. ", then I most sincerely and proudly apologize.
If not, you will do like 99.9999999999% of all other LEO's. You will enforce the laws you are told to enforce.
These posts are little more than an opportunity for gun owners to verbally mas***bate and engage in BS "Red Dawn" unrealistic fantasies.
Here is my post from one of the two or three threads on this subject that are currently open....
Really now. I just know that all you die hard, come-and-take-'em guys have a new machine gun or two to use. How about all those 10" short barreled full auto shotguns? Those are cool aren't they! I guess you will all make a good stand with your converted AR-15's won't you! Man, those G17's will come out and make quite am impression with the fools who dare to take your weapons. You know those 17's that you made full auto?
Wait a minute....you guys don't have any of those. You know why? Yes, you do know. You don't have them because when THE GOVERNMENT SAID THAT YOU COULD NOT HAVE THEM, and you jumped to your feet, stood tall, raised your fist in outrage and defiance and in a unified voice screamed..........OK.
Come on guys, how many threads to you have to read about people who ditch the NRA because (begin sad, whining, whimp voice) "they send me too much junk mail. (end S,W,W,V) Now you tell me that THIS guy is gonna fight armed troops? BS.
The bottom line is this, if you are not spending a significant amount of time, money and effort NOW to stop the confiscation, then you are most likely lying if you claim you will DIE to stop it LATER. Oh, I am sure a couple of people will be so angry that they will suddenly decide "what the hell, it is a good day to die", but they will be so rare as to be negligible.
Ask yourself, "how many cold-dead-hands Rambos took the last stand in New Orleans? How many of the "we will fight to the death" types rushed to New Orleans to put a stop to the confiscations? How many of you are fighting and dying NOW in places where ownership is banned? Or does tyranny only become worth fighting when the fight is in YOUR backyard?
Someone already has alluded to this, but it bears repeating...."If you wait until the government is standing at YOUR door to fight, then you are a damn fool for wasting you efforts and life. In all reality, you gave up long before they got to your door.
I did not post this to start a fight or certainly not to insult anyone posting here. I want everyone to step back and REALLY think about your actions to prevent confiscations.
If you really are honestly doing all you can, and making a big effort, then I commend you and when necessary, I will be beside you or someone like you at the end, if it comes to that. We will have fought well and hard for YEARS before the guns were necessary.
If those thoughts begin with a "blaze of GLORY", then you need to put the remote down, turn off Red Dawn, and develop a real plan to do something that can make a difference. Write or call every single politician over you every month. Go to their appearances. Let yourself be seen and heard. Join the NRA, or every other "pro" group you can, AND WORK FOR THEM. Don't just pay dues and read the magazine. Organize RKBA meetings/picnics in your town. Let everyone see a unified, responsible, group of gun enthusiasts NOW. Hell, this is just a few things you can do. Think of some more and do them.
Razoreye
11-24-2007, 21:18
Remember, ammonium nitrate and diesel are still available locally and cheaply. ;)
You are a LEO. I call BS.
Before you deny this, please tell me what you do when you stop a US citizen who has a pistol and no permit, or has a pistol in an area the government has deemed "off limits" or has a automatic rifle that is not registered.
If your answer is "Nothing, contrary to the laws I am sworn to uphold, he has the Constitutional right to carry weapons, regardless of the law. I will let him go without any action. ", then I most sincerely and proudly apologize.
If not, you will do like 99.9999999999% of all other LEO's. You will enforce the laws you are told to enforce...
Well, I'm glad that you know me so well. I don't profess to know the inner workings of your soul or what makes you tick but somewhere along the road of life you developed an ability to read a few words written by a stranger and instantly know them better than they know themselves.
I stand by my original statement, regardless of what you think.
MyGlockRocks19
11-24-2007, 21:49
I honestly hope that if it came down to a forcible disarming of the American public by the government, there would be a revolt armed or otherwise. I also believe that we must fight that fight through every other available venue before resorting to force. But if "diplomacy fails", and force is the only available option, we shouldn't hesitate to take that step. The second amendment was written into the Constitution to protect us from a tyrannous government. It was intended as a last resort. To remove that protection from the American people is to lay them at the mercy of an armed bureaucracy that can impose itself at will, without fear of serious opposition. Yes, armed opposition will likely end in death, history has shown that time and time again, but I'd rather that then live in the state that will unfold itself within my lifetime if such a policy came to pass.
Come and *******ing take them.
As a police officer in Alabama, Hell no would I take Bubba's guns. Here in the South, Bubba may still come to my rescue if I am getting my butt beat on the side of the road.
Plus, it is my freedom as an individual then as a police officer. I would not enforce unjust laws. We have officer discretion. I do not arrest everyone and I do not ticket everyone.
I treat others as I want to be treated.
BUT, I was taught to watch the other person because not everyone does what is RIGHT !!!!
This includes the Govt. !!!!
May GOD have mercy on us and our country !!!!!
\I would not enforce unjust laws.
To bad the officers in New Orleans didn't feel the way you do.
To bad the officers in New Orleans didn't feel the way you do.
Yeah, I will be that very damn few of them would have ever said "Oh yeah, if I were ordered to confiscate weapons, I sure would!"
Sundown, I did not intend to single you out, but I did so to prove a point as you were the first LEO to say "NOT ME". But I ask you if you enforced laws NOW that are contrary to the concept of the Second Amendment. I submit that you do. Why? Because that is the law of your city/jurisdiction.
My question is "When will you refuse?"
Again, maybe you will not take a weapon away from a citizen because the law says you must do so. Maybe you will overlook an otherwise law-abiding citizen who just happens to have a "happy switch" on his AR, or a 10" shotgun in his car. Think about this and answer to yourself. "If I pulled over a guy who had an unregistered MP5 and a sawed-off shotgun, (weapons that would have once been legal for anyone), would I recognize that his right to keep and bear these shall not be infringed, or would I bust his ass?" I submit that you would bust him.
No, I don't have the "ability to read a few words written by a stranger and instantly know them better than they know themselves", but I do have the ability to smell BS, even that most difficult kind, and that is the kind were someone tries to BS HIMSELF, and really doesn't even realize it.
You are right in one respect, in your post. I do not know you personally. That is why I included an apology in my first post. I hereby repeat that apology, in case you missed it. If I am wrong, I sincerely, open and publicly, and with complete humility, apologize.
But hoss, if I owe you that apology, you are the first in a LONG line of LEO's that I work with and have helped train for many many years.
HollowHead
11-25-2007, 00:30
To bad the officers in New Orleans didn't feel the way you do.
If memory serves correctly, it was a prerequisite to have a felony record in order to be accepted into the academy there. HH
As a police officer in Alabama, Hell no would I take Bubba's guns. Here in the South, Bubba may still come to my rescue if I am getting my butt beat on the side of the road.
Plus, it is my freedom as an individual then as a police officer. I would not enforce unjust laws. We have officer discretion. I do not arrest everyone and I do not ticket everyone.
I treat others as I want to be treated.
BUT, I was taught to watch the other person because not everyone does what is RIGHT !!!!
This includes the Govt. !!!!
May GOD have mercy on us and our country !!!!!
Again, see my post to Sundown. Do you ever take Bubba's guns now because he has them at a high school football game? A sawed off shotgun in his pickup? Notice a full auto switch on his AR?
Is so, where is YOUR personal line? If you do, it seems to be blurred.
If not, I sincerely congratulate you.
Yeah, I will be that very damn few of them would have ever said "Oh yeah, if I were ordered to confiscate weapons, I sure would!"
Sundown, I did not intend to single you out, but I did so to prove a point as you were the first LEO to say "NOT ME". But I ask you if you enforced laws NOW that are contrary to the concept of the Second Amendment. I submit that you do. Why? Because that is the law of your city/jurisdiction.
My question is "When will you refuse?"
Again, maybe you will not take a weapon away from a citizen because the law says you must do so. Maybe you will overlook an otherwise law-abiding citizen who just happens to have a "happy switch" on his AR, or a 10" shotgun in his car. Think about this and answer to yourself. "If I pulled over a guy who had an unregistered MP5 and a sawed-off shotgun, (weapons that would have once been legal for anyone), would I recognize that his right to keep and bear these shall not be infringed, or would I bust his ass?" I submit that you would bust him.
No, I don't have the "ability to read a few words written by a stranger and instantly know them better than they know themselves", but I do have the ability to smell BS, even that most difficult kind, and that is the kind were someone tries to BS HIMSELF, and really doesn't even realize it.
You are right in one respect, in your post. I do not know you personally. That is why I included an apology in my first post. I hereby repeat that apology, in case you missed it. If I am wrong, I sincerely, open and publicly, and with complete humility, apologize.
But hoss, if I owe you that apology, you are the first in a LONG line of LEO's that I work with and have helped train for many many years.
I have never, ever hemmed someone up for carrying a concealed firearm without a permit to do so. I have never enforced a law that was unconstitutional nor will I ever do so.
The thing is, as much as I enjoy what I do, that job is not who I am. I have to be able to go home each night knowing that I did my job the correct way, the right way, and the legal way. When the time comes for me to make the decision about making an illegal arrest, search or charge, then that will be the time that I take off my badge. My job ain't worth my integrity.
Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
And then you can ask yourself, would you die to ensure your family's freedom. Isn't your son or daughter worth a sacrafice, or at least risk.
Have you read much Thomas Paine? To summerize one of his articles, "pray that you fight the war now, so your son doesn't end up having to fight the war FOR you."You said it!Right on the mark.Live free or die.To me I think I would be better off dead that not to be free.
AZ DBLTRBL
11-25-2007, 00:50
Good question.
One thing to consider. . . there are a LOT more police officers that are going to come to the aid of 'one of their own' if he/they call for 'back-up, shots fired'.
You'd probably leave quite a bloodstain on your firearms before they end up with them.
Me?????
I lost all of my guns in a card game, to several of the fine folks right here on GT.
I know Shoeless has at least two of them. Okie got three. G&K Lady got 6 of them. XMM took 4 or 5 of them. I've really lost count of how many these folks took.
(I'm not a very good poker player. Or was it Bridge? Rummy? Or, was it Hearts?)
The Police won't be getting anything, here.
Yup.....all my guns are belong to GT. I don't remember who won them...I don't remember why they won them....I don't remember what I had that they won.....but I'll tell ya, they got a hell of a deal!
and you will never find them. Not ever.....
Die: Nope
Voluntarily hand over: Nope
Good thing I have neither. You have to ask yourself whether you can sleep at night knowing you had a chance and pussed out while your family is in bondage. ;)That's right.And will you take the mark on your hand or head just to get food or the like??Or will you use your guns if ness to feed your family?
betyourlife
11-25-2007, 01:21
zoyter2 makes a lot of interesting points....
zoyter2 makes a lot of interesting points....
Yes he does. Especially this one
Ask yourself, "how many cold-dead-hands Rambos took the last stand in New Orleans? How many of the "we will fight to the death" types rushed to New Orleans to put a stop to the confiscations? How many of you are fighting and dying NOW in places where ownership is banned? Or does tyranny only worth fighting when the fight is in YOUR backyard?
You are a LEO. I call BS.
Before you deny this, please tell me what you do when you stop a US citizen who has a pistol and no permit, or has a pistol in an area the government has deemed "off limits" or has a automatic rifle that is not registered.
If your answer is "Nothing, contrary to the laws I am sworn to uphold, he has the Constitutional right to carry weapons, regardless of the law. I will let him go without any action. ", then I most sincerely and proudly apologize.
If not, you will do like 99.9999999999% of all other LEO's. You will enforce the laws you are told to enforce.
These posts are little more than an opportunity for gun owners to verbally mas***bate and engage in BS "Red Dawn" unrealistic fantasies.
Here is my post from one of the two or three threads on this subject that are currently open....
Really now. I just know that all you die hard, come-and-take-'em guys have a new machine gun or two to use. How about all those 10" short barreled full auto shotguns? Those are cool aren't they! I guess you will all make a good stand with your converted AR-15's won't you! Man, those G17's will come out and make quite am impression with the fools who dare to take your weapons. You know those 17's that you made full auto?
Wait a minute....you guys don't have any of those. You know why? Yes, you do know. You don't have them because when THE GOVERNMENT SAID THAT YOU COULD NOT HAVE THEM, and you jumped to your feet, stood tall, raised your fist in outrage and defiance and in a unified voice screamed..........OK.
Come on guys, how many threads to you have to read about people who ditch the NRA because (begin sad, whining, whimp voice) "they send me too much junk mail. (end S,W,W,V) Now you tell me that THIS guy is gonna fight armed troops? BS.
The bottom line is this, if you are not spending a significant amount of time, money and effort NOW to stop the confiscation, then you are most likely lying if you claim you will DIE to stop it LATER. Oh, I am sure a couple of people will be so angry that they will suddenly decide "what the hell, it is a good day to die", but they will be so rare as to be negligible.
Ask yourself, "how many cold-dead-hands Rambos took the last stand in New Orleans? How many of the "we will fight to the death" types rushed to New Orleans to put a stop to the confiscations? How many of you are fighting and dying NOW in places where ownership is banned? Or does tyranny only worth fighting when the fight is in YOUR backyard?
Someone already has alluded to this, but it bears repeating...."If you wait until the government is standing at YOUR door to fight, then you are a damn fool for wasting you efforts and life. In all reality, you gave up long before they got to your door.
I did not post this to start a fight or certainly not to insult anyone posting here. I want everyone to step back and REALLY think about your actions to prevent confiscations.
If you really are honestly doing all you can, and making a big effort, then I commend you and when necessary, I will be beside you or someone like you at the end, if it comes to that. We will have fought well and hard for YEARS before the guns were necessary.
If those thoughts begin with a "blaze of GLORY", then you need to put the remote down, turn off Red Dawn, and develop a real plan to do something that can make a difference. Write or call every single politician over you every month. Go to their appearances. Let yourself be seen and heard. Join the NRA, or every other "pro" group you can, AND WORK FOR THEM. Don't just pay dues and read the magazine. Organize RKBA meetings/picnics in your town. Let everyone see a unified, responsible, group of gun enthusiasts NOW. Hell, this is just a few things you can do. Think of some more and do them.Very,very well said!That's right WE ALL can do more do stop the anti-gun scum who would inslave as in a hart beat.With the so called Patriot act and no 2nd amendment we will all be tost!I don't know about you ,but I don't trust our governmemt anymore.(Wako etc,etc)Section 213,215,and 1016 of the Patriot act look more like Imperial Rome and Fascist Germany to me.It sure don't look like the United States that I grown up loveing so much.If this keeps going this way and we lose our 2nd amendment rights say good bye to freedom and GOD help us all.
The government will be using "frickin' lasers", "Active Denial System", "MOOT System"(Motor sensory Overload Transducer) against your semi-auto's....good luck.
Very,very well said!That's right WE ALL can do more do stop the anti-gun scum who would inslave as in a hart beat.With the so called Patriot act and no 2nd amendment we will all be tost!I don't know about you ,but I don't trust our governmemt anymore.(Wako etc,etc)Section 213,215,and 1016 of the Patriot act look more like Imperial Rome and Fascist Germany to me.It sure don't look like the United States that I grown up loveing so much.If this keeps going this way and we lose our 2nd amendment rights say good bye to freedom and GOD help us all.
How true. It has always been my contention that "if the 9/11 attacks began the war against America and Freedom, the PATRIOT Act was the massive offensive that marked the point that began and insured their defeat".
The noose will tighten slowly, and always around 'someone else's neck'. It will always be 'for a good reason'. Much like the PATRIOT Act is "necessary to secure the country from terrorists" when the noose begins to tighten, the masses will ignore the implications of the act until it directly and undeniably impacts them personally.
Just see how many strong constitutionalists on THIS forum counter the dangers of the PATRIOT Act with the argument "tell me ONE law-abiding citizen this has hurt, show me ONE abuse". Are you really prepared to say that these same people will recognize the laws which rob us of the RKBA when it is passed? No, that WILL NOT happen. Everyone will sit around saying "show me one abuse" until it is used to abuse them. Fortunately for our government, everyone around them will look the other way. NIMBY is the real American Creed.
Razoreye
11-25-2007, 09:58
Zoyter, ever hear of the boiling frog dilemma? Pop the heat on and they jump out, slowly turn it up and they die not realizing they're being cooked. That's why I always say it is dangerous with each little "chip" they take out of the constitution.
As far as you categorizing... it could be true, it could be BS. It is hard to peg the human psyche or the abilities of the human race to organize.
usmc4641
11-25-2007, 10:43
In 2000 I swore that I would defend the Constitution. I have voluntarily risked my life to protect it. Why would I stop when it came down to my own individual rights? Like previous posters have mentioned, we must work against violations, such as the Patriot Act. We must do it sooner, cause once it comes to gun play, it will obviously be a sad day.
kenpoprofessor
11-25-2007, 10:46
In 2000 I swore that I would defend the Constitution. I have voluntarily risked my life to protect it. Why would I stop when it came down to my own individual rights?
I also swore an oath to defend the Constitution, 20 years before you. My thoughts haven't changed.
I have no children, no wife, both parents are dead, and haven't spoken to relatives in 2-3 years.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
MOHAA Player
11-25-2007, 10:50
I don't care who I had to fire at for the right so many good men died for.I just hope a lot of people would join me,we have more guns then they do,fight back and we will win.We are free men,and if you want to stay that way,never surrender to there game,or lies.
MOHAA
Zoyter, ever hear of the boiling frog dilemma? Pop the heat on and they jump out, slowly turn it up and they die not realizing they're being cooked. That's why I always say it is dangerous with each little "chip" they take out of the constitution.
As far as you categorizing... it could be true, it could be BS. It is hard to peg the human psyche or the abilities of the human race to organize.
Great analogy! I will use that in the future! And I have never, in any situation, hoped so much that my thoughts DID turn out to be BS!
kenpoprofessor
11-25-2007, 11:24
Great analogy! I will use that in the future! And I have never, in any situation, hoped so much that my thoughts DID turn out to be BS!
http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
It's not really a good one.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
passive101
11-25-2007, 11:34
damn skippy and take out as many I could. Of course I hope if it ever came to that I was already in contact to get some banned things ;)
Razoreye
11-25-2007, 12:02
http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
It's not really a good one.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
Who cares? That's not the point.
I may have to boil a frog to find out though...
http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
It's not really a good one.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
Damn, every time I plan a parade.......(insert smilie here!)
usmc4641
11-25-2007, 15:01
I would like to add, I would not die for my guns. That would be like dying for my TV or my car.
I would risk my life to defend my rights against armed aggression.
kenpoprofessor
11-25-2007, 15:26
I would like to add, I would not die for my guns. That would be like dying for my TV or my car.
I would risk my life to defend my rights against armed aggression.
Weapons have always been symbols of freedom. No weapons means you're a slave. Those who would deny us weapons are surely on the path to enslave us. I won't die for my guns either, but the freedom I enjoy because of them.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD “Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.” (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer’s hands.)
"Men that are above all Fear, soon grow above all Shame." --John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon
"Both the oligarch and Tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." --Aristotle
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
cjlandry
11-25-2007, 18:54
This is one of the better "From my cold, dead hands" threads that I've read. Lots of very well thought out posts. Kudos to all!
SouthpawShootr
11-25-2007, 19:30
Would I pick a fight with the cops? Probably not, though my best friend would know better than to come knocking at my door in uniform after the confiscations begin. Chances are, he'd join me in what follows. In any case, I wouldn't be there. I'd max out the cash advance on my CC, withdraw everything from the bank, charge up as much supplies as possible, then disappear into the wilderness. Probably have to go north. It would take decades to round everything up in any case.
By the time the general populace wakes up and realizes what's been going on the past 30-40 years, it's going to be too late.
dave_pro2a
11-25-2007, 19:39
Continue to let the powers that be educate our children (set the cirriculum), and within about 2 more generations this will all be a moot point...
99% of the population will truly believe guns are evil, should be banned, only cops should have them, the 2A is about the army, etc.
jhoagland
11-25-2007, 19:51
To be honest, I don't know what I'd do. There is alot of ifs that would lead up to that.
I have written my senators and reply to editers of papers and articles that Herr Glock posts.
I am a member of the NRA.
I support my local gun shop and am a member of its range.
I have a gut level distrust of anything that the gooberment is involved in. I hope I never have to make that decision.
What is the quote that said beware of losing freedom or rights when using the excuse that we are at war and it is necessary ? I wish I could remember who said it or the exact words.
Would you die for your guns?
________________________
No
It's not going to happen, so I don't worry about it.
SMSTRICK
11-26-2007, 01:34
Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
And then you can ask yourself, would you die to ensure your family's freedom. Isn't your son or daughter worth a sacrafice, or at least risk.
Have you read much Thomas Paine? To summerize one of his articles, "pray that you fight the war now, so your son doesn't end up having to fight the war FOR you." I agree and would also like to add "LIBERTY." Would you be willing to fight or risk life and limb for liberty ? A gun is nothing more than a tool. Therefore , if the government were to try to take away my guns,...they would in essence be weilding their tyrannical and oppresive power to infringe upon my liberty and freedom.
To answer the original question of this thread,.....I would rather die a free man than to submit to a tyrannical power by sacrificing my liberty. It all boils down to principle and a value system. I stand with the founding fathers on this one.
WolfWarrior
11-26-2007, 01:50
I would fight and die just as our founding fathers did. If we do not... then what are we here for. If we do not then we are all hypocrites.
usmc4641
11-26-2007, 05:58
Well, I think the question is better framed by asking "Would you die for your freedom."
And then you can ask yourself, would you die to ensure your family's freedom. Isn't your son or daughter worth a sacrafice, or at least risk.
Have you read much Thomas Paine? To summerize one of his articles, "pray that you fight the war now, so your son doesn't end up having to fight the war FOR you."
This is perhaps the proper question.
SMSTRICK
11-26-2007, 07:08
Very true. The 2nd Amendment is not about guns , so much as it is about the preservation of liberty and freedom of a free society. The guns are only there in case the government were to become oppresive and tyrannical,.....therefore we would have the ways and means to violently overthrow it.
Kingslayer
11-26-2007, 07:14
If they banned all guns tomorrow and told you that you had to turn in your guns or go to jail, would you turn them in, or would you shoot it out with the cops or whoever when they came to your house to get you? Alot of people say "They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead fingers" but are you really willing to die for your right to own a gun?
As a single person I know I would fight and die if need be to protect my right. But I wonder if someone with a family and kids would feel the same way. If you die defending your right to own guns, what would happen to your loved ones? How would their lives be impacted by your death? So again, would you REALLY be willing to die to keep your guns, or would you turn them in?
Yes I would.
However, I don't considering it dieing for my guns I consider it dieing for my freedom. You can replace "guns" with from the Constitution and it should be worth dieing for.
1811guy2
11-26-2007, 07:31
Let's see...almost 400 million firearms in the United States, how many centuries would it take for total confiscation even if every LEO, NG and military was on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week? HH
That assumes that all LEO and military would (and assumes that they would empower the military to make such confiscations which right now is illegal and unconstitutional). The majority of LEO's I know (myself included) would not confiscate guns from law abiding citizens. I wouldn't do it because it is morally wrong. Many others wouldn't do it because it would be hazardous to their health. I am sure there are numerous anti-gun zealots who blinded with their hopocrisy, would take up arms to confiscate from the law abiding. The question would then come down to who is a better shot?
I'd dispose of all my guns myself.
And if I was going to jail because I had so many through the NICS system, they'd find out about the one I disposed of in my house, and hopefully receive all the ammunition before it was handed over to them.
That assumes that all LEO and military would (and assumes that they would empower the military to make such confiscations which right now is illegal and unconstitutional). The majority of LEO's I know (myself included) would not confiscate guns from law abiding citizens. I wouldn't do it because it is morally wrong. Many others wouldn't do it because it would be hazardous to their health. I am sure there are numerous anti-gun zealots who blinded with their hopocrisy, would take up arms to confiscate from the law abiding. The question would then come down to who is a better shot?
Read my post above. THe majority of LEO's WILL confiscate weapons. The majority of gunowners will NOT fight.
Please put yourself in this scenario.....
You and your captain are working the Friday night high school football game. You suddenly notice a man buying a ticket who has a GLOCK on his hip. Your captain asks him if he is a LEO. He replies "No, just a citizen".
Your captain informs him that, according to FEDERAL LAW, he cannot carry a pistol on school grounds. The guy says "Thanks for the info, but I can according to the constitution."
Your captain orders you to arrest the man who is wearing the pistol.
My question for you is "At what point do you explain to your captain that disarming him is unconstitutional, and you cannot do this or allow this to happen."?
Don't be so quick to say "I will never...". You already do, to a degree.
Again, I sincerely apologize if you are the LEO who WOULD protect this guys rights. You will be the first I have ever in my life met. Congrats.
crimsonaudio
06-05-2008, 13:01
I have never, ever hemmed someone up for carrying a concealed firearm without a permit to do so. I have never enforced a law that was unconstitutional nor will I ever do so.
The thing is, as much as I enjoy what I do, that job is not who I am. I have to be able to go home each night knowing that I did my job the correct way, the right way, and the legal way. When the time comes for me to make the decision about making an illegal arrest, search or charge, then that will be the time that I take off my badge. My job ain't worth my integrity.
Amen, and thanks for that. I wish/hope most officers are like you...
Razoreye
06-05-2008, 13:05
Holy thread resurrection, batman!
crimsonaudio
06-05-2008, 13:08
Holy thread resurrection, batman!
Hehe, I do what I can...
fnfalman
06-05-2008, 13:30
I will not die for my guns, nor will I die for any of my properties. BUT I will put my life on the line for our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Big difference.
Why is it that I can't seem to dig this deep into the GT archives? I've been looking for the "Busket Of Soup" thread for a long time.....:dunno:
I have a question for all the people posting "some one broke my window"
or I'll dig a hole and hide them. Will you let others fight for you than dig them
up after it's said and done? If your going to hide them than WE have lost,
just go ahead and put your tail between your legs and turn them in.
If it's time to hide them it's time to use them. Did you not learn from Waco?
The ATF didn't say you have XYZ guns give them to us! They broke in the doors and windows to look for them. Do you think they will be nicer to you?
Or do you think you will find yourself flex cuffed with your family on your front lawn at 3am with an MP-5 in your ear?:dunno:
Since this thread has come out of the dark ages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u7qswjJEA4
slewfoot
06-05-2008, 13:56
I face death and dismemberment every time I bring a new gun home.
cjlandry
06-06-2008, 03:35
Holy thread resurrection, batman!
I stopped in just to see who dusted it off and dragged it out of the dungeon.
I didn't even notice this puppy was a thread necromancy 'till about page three. I just figured someone else had started the whole ball of wax rollin' again, and the same old faces were posting the same old responses. :)
RUSH2112
06-06-2008, 04:02
As others have said, I would simply "no longer own" any of my guns when they come looking for them. All gone, sorry guys.
As for shooting it out, that's 'tarded. For one, it's suicide. And secondly, I would not shoot at, much less kill, any LEO for this or any other reason I can think of. Good men and women doing their jobs, and most of them, if you asked them, probably hate the idea of taking our guns.
Did someone already cover that? I don't know I skipped lots of posts.
If an army or police came to confiscate them then I would hand over the guns. What am I gonna do? Shoot it out with them over my Glocks and H&Ks? They aren't the enemy. Now if some thugs demanded the same that's a dif story.
TacticalBling
06-06-2008, 06:25
As others have said, I would simply "no longer own" any of my guns when they come looking for them. All gone, sorry guys.
As for shooting it out, that's 'tarded. For one, it's suicide. And secondly, I would not shoot at, much less kill, any LEO for this or any other reason I can think of. Good men and women doing their jobs, and most of them, if you asked them, probably hate the idea of taking our guns.
Did someone already cover that? I don't know I skipped lots of posts.
When good people enforce tyranny they become bad people.
Indy_Guy_77
06-06-2008, 06:52
I am not able to answer this question at this time.
-J-
AZ DBLTRBL
06-06-2008, 06:57
Read my post above. THe majority of LEO's WILL confiscate weapons. The majority of gunowners will NOT fight.
Please put yourself in this scenario.....
You and your captain are working the Friday night high school football game. You suddenly notice a man buying a ticket who has a GLOCK on his hip. Your captain asks him if he is a LEO. He replies "No, just a citizen".
Your captain informs him that, according to FEDERAL LAW, he cannot carry a pistol on school grounds. The guy says "Thanks for the info, but I can according to the constitution."
Your captain orders you to arrest the man who is wearing the pistol.
My question for you is "At what point do you explain to your captain that disarming him is unconstitutional, and you cannot do this or allow this to happen."?
Don't be so quick to say "I will never...". You already do, to a degree.
Again, I sincerely apologize if you are the LEO who WOULD protect this guys rights. You will be the first I have ever in my life met. Congrats.
Dead thread...why not. I'll tell you this...I will NOT shoot a cop. Period. Won't do it. I've never owned a gun in my life..so, nothing to see here...move along...
Bottom line...I'm not hurting a cop.
Edit: Never mind, this thread is way too old.
kenpoprofessor
06-06-2008, 07:40
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/kenpoprofessor/thesigning.jpg
As others have said, I would simply "no longer own" any of my guns when they come looking for them. All gone, sorry guys.
As for shooting it out, that's 'tarded. For one, it's suicide. And secondly, I would not shoot at, much less kill, any LEO for this or any other reason I can think of. Good men and women doing their jobs, and most of them, if you asked them, probably hate the idea of taking our guns.
Did someone already cover that? I don't know I skipped lots of posts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/kenpoprofessor/43h5552ur4.jpg
If an army or police came to confiscate them then I would hand over the guns. What am I gonna do? Shoot it out with them over my Glocks and H&Ks? They aren't the enemy. Now if some thugs demanded the same that's a dif story.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/kenpoprofessor/herd-sheep-barnyard_AA035392.jpg
Any federal, state, or city employee that becomes complicit in the destruction of the Constitution is the enemy, it's really that simple. If you don't consider the theft of your freedom and liberty as a reason, then you are really just part of the destruction.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
PlaneJane
06-06-2008, 08:04
There are two kinds of people who post their intention to resist confiscation by armed force: bull******* and fools.
Jane
Razoreye
06-06-2008, 08:26
There are two kinds of people who post their intention to resist confiscation by armed force: bull******* and fools.
Jane
+1
SSS.
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