are federal premium 180gr hydra-shok's really dangerous?

[sledgmb]

hi guys and gals,

please don't flame me here. i just bought into the .40 rage and got a brand new G27. this is for CCW. haven't shot it yet though. here's the situation. i'm trying to decide upon a load for practice/carry. i generally shoot federal premium ammo. now, i can get federal hydra-shoks for $18.97/box of 50. these are 180gr. everything else is around $13 or $14/box of 20. this is almost twice as expensive as the 180 gr.

are the 180gr hydrashoks dangerous for my new G27?

i read that scary article over at CALIBERS on 180gr ammo for 40's. is it really that bad?

what do you all use? i'd LIKE to use 180 gr solely b/c of price, but if it's dangerous i'll stay away.

what do you think?

[JGO]

I've heard that, too and there are some pretty good arguments. Something about having to reduce the amount of powder because the 180 gr. bullet takes up so much room. I don't know. There are a lot of ammo makers turning the 180 out. it may not be your best round in the .40 for self defense though. That title goes to the 135 gr.

[sledgmb]

yeah, unfortunately in federal hydrashoks, 135gr is the MOST expensive.

:(

[JGO]

Originally posted by sledgmb
yeah, unfortunately in federal hydrashoks, 135gr is the MOST expensive.

:(
True, AND they are underpowered, at least the Personal Defense type is. Do yourself a favor and check out www.proload.com (http://www.proload.com) Good old John Koppel may have the answer to your problem.

[GlockM23]

I thought this too when I first got my 23, but I've never even seen .40 S&W at the store in grains other then 180. They are literally ALL 180 unless you go to specialty places on the internet. For the range I use UMC (really dirty/really cheap) if their out of the winclean normally winclean tho, both 180 grain too. I keep 180 grain JHP's in the gun at home.

Never shot anything but 180 grains, over 1k thru the pipe now and the gun is only getting better, so I'd say shoot em to your hearts content, I do.

[noway]

As you'rer post stated.

the 180gr is the most popular round out and it will not KaBOOm you're gun or is it dangerous. If you get good commercial mfg ammo, then don't worry about it.

[Dave T]

The 40 S&W was developed with a 180g bullet and the majority of the factory ammo made these days is in this bullet weight.

By all means, I would avoid the 180g bullet. What do those boobs who developed the cartridge know compaired to the geniuses on the internet.

[JGO]

Most of the 180 gr. that you guys are speaking of are hardball target loads. I would venture to say that 95% of target loads are 180's. Defensive hollowpoints, on the other hand, are readily available in 135, 155, 165, 175 and 180. The 135 is rated as good a manstopper as the 125 gr. 357 Magnum, King of the Street.

The 180 UMC jams in my two .40 Glocks on a regular basis. I think if you search this board, you will find a lot of negative comments about the UMC stuff.

[garys_2k]

Price for self defense ammo shouldn't be a major consideration, as you can practice with other ammo that aims and recoils like it. A good practice ammo is CCI Blazer (aluminum case). It feels EXACTLY like hot hollow point ammo but is 1/2 the cost (or less).

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with 180 grain factory (or carefully made handload) rounds. Just don't set them too deep - the examples of the CALIBERS website were mostly VERY unrealistically short and defective rounds.

[JGO]

Originally posted by garys_2k
Price for self defense ammo shouldn't be a major consideration, as you can practice with other ammo that aims and recoils like it. A good practice ammo is CCI Blazer (aluminum case). It feels EXACTLY like hot hollow point ammo but is 1/2 the cost (or less).

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with 180 grain factory (or carefully made handload) rounds. Just don't set them too deep - the examples of the CALIBERS website were mostly VERY unrealistically short and defective rounds.

This is why I mentioned Proload (http://www.proload.com) in an earlier post. You can buy your defensive ammo AND some practice stuff that shoots with the same velocity and energy.

[Echo Pop]

FWIW, I've put literally thousands of 180gr rounds through my G22, most of it UMC, and have not experienced a single malfunction. Perfect every time.

EP

[GaryNH]

I use the Winchester white box 180 gr FMJ and JHP from Wallyworld for practice in my 27 but when we're out on the town it's full of 165 gr Golden Sabers.

Gary

[FAL shootist]

All I ever shoot in my 27 is 180 gr. from various maufacturers. Its become obvious to me from many of the questions asked, that many people on these internet firearms boards should put a bullet through their computers and they would lead a life with a lot less anxiety. I don't know who starts these rumors about alot of these guns and ammo being unsafe but alot of it is just nonsense.

Sledgmb, I can tell that you will never be fully comfortable with this gun please private message me so I can give you instructions as to shipping that dangerous g27 to my ffl. I am always willing to do my part for the betterment of society. And if I can relieve some of a persons anxiety and pick up a free gun, well then, my job is done here.

Any modern gun from a major maufacturer is safe when used with newly manufactured rounds for which it was designed.

I shoot 180gr. S&B FMJ, CCI GDHP, and Federal Hydrashoks a fair bit in both my G22 and my Walther P99.

As far as my personal carry round, I use 155gr. Hydrashoks. I've had the best luck with them in reliability, and most literature that I have read states that they have one of the highest 1st shot stop percentages.

[Pop Gunner]

I've slung nearly 10k down range.
You can bet a good part of that was 180gr.
I've stayed away from Wolf and the cheaper brands for obvious reasons.
Target ammo is 180gr,self defense is 165gr Golden Sabres.
Pay attention to what you buy,and never buy reloads if you don't know who loaded them,I say.
Besides that may the force be with you.
SAFE-SHOOTING!

[FSUMach]

I would say you are MUCH better off with the 180gr loading as opposed to a 135gr loading. Not heavy enough, not enough penetration. The danger you are speaking of in 180gr loads is the "kaboom" which can occur due to excessive pressure levels in a situation of bullet setback. With the 180gr there is already not much room and if the bullet is set back the pressure levels rise to dangerous levels. I have not ever heard of this happening with factory premium ammunition, only shoddy reloads. This doesn't mean it can't happen only that it doesn't. Stick with a heavier weighted bullet, the lowest I would go is 155. Evan Marshall recommends 155gr Hydrashock (not 165 as federal downloads this round) or the 165gr Remington Golden Sabre. Chuck Taylor recommends the 180gr Winchester Ranger if you can get your hands on it. The 155 would probably be a good choice out of your 27 due to reduced barrel size, but you can feel confidently well armed with your 180gr Hydras, and for the price you can practice a bunch. Down here in Florida standard Remington JHP's run 30$/50rnds..

Not that I'd wanna get shot with a 135 at all.. but penetration is the name of the game I'd say...

JMHO
FSUMach

[ryucasta]

Its my opinion, that the issue of bullet setback has been way over played with regards to the 40 S&W cartridge in a 180 grain bullet configuration. If you look at the following table the difference between a 180 vs. 155-grain bullet with both loads you will get into the 35000-PSI threshold at about an OAL of 1.080.


QuickLOAD Calculated Results http://www.neconos.com
40S&W N320 4.6 Grains
Montana Gold FMJ
155 Grain 180 Grain
PMAX OAL PMAX
29951 1.120 29284
30645 1.110 30666
31793 1.100 32148
33060 1.090 33824
34453 1.080 35703 Max Pressure Threshold
35955 1.070 37823
37620 1.060 40276
39461 1.050 43004
41506 1.040 46218
43394 1.030 49992
46369 1.020 54489
49290 1.010 59940
52632 1.000 66686


I have actually looked into the Calibers website with regards to that load configuration and while the information looks good it actually isn’t. It doesn’t provide the weight of the powder charge or the brand and type of powder used. Without this information I would say it’s pretty useless.


Calibers Website
http://greent.com/40Page/index2.htm

Overall Length Pressure
1.140" 26,195 psi
1.130" 27,521 psi
1.120" 29,079 psi
1.115" 29,924 psi
1.100" 32,900 psi
1.075" 39,641 psi
1.050" 50,954 psi
1.040" 57,926 psi
1.030" 66,890 psi
1.020" 80,345 psi
1.010" 101,286 psi
1.000" 138,744 psi


:cool:

[Chuck6420]

My g-23 fired in half-battery with fed hydr-shocks 180's

don't forget the weakens the rear of the 10mm case when the developed the .40 becasue the 180's wouldn't seat right

Not a good feeling when a glock with premium factory ammo blows up in your hands

[Steve Koski]

Fed HS 180 gr are VERY dangerous. I would absolutely hate being hit with one.

[jeremy54b]

I second what has been said. The .40 was originally designed around a 180 grain bullet, so no worries. Plus, it's a Glock, as long as you shoot commercial new ammo, no problems! And to answer your question, the Federal 180 grain HS moves along at what, 800FPS+? Hell yes it's dangerous....to the bad guy;) jeremy

[Opie]

I have First Hand knowledge, that I read somewhere, that some guy said he and his friend were out shooting and his friend told him about a guy in Chigago that had a Glock explode for no reason in his hand. Ever since then I have sold my glocks, and I carry a .22 S&W revolver. That way if there is an overpressure round the gun should be able to withstand it. I would stay away from them.

[jeremy54b]

STOP!!! Hold the presses, we have another Vlad! Opie, get some real firepower! Until then, don't badmouth my plastic pals!! ;)

[Bravo]

Chuck6420 - "My g-23 fired in half-battery with fed hydr-shocks 180's"

"Not a good feeling when a glock with premium factory ammo blows up in your hands..."

Inquiring minds want to know Chuck.

What did Glock say about this?

Did they replace your 23 ?

[Quake Guy]

Winchester 165 grain white box & Fiochi 170 grain are widely available at gunshows here in AZ. Both can give you a little more leeway.

For defense ammo, I would rather have a little more velocity to ensure better opening of the hollowpoint that a little extra weight.

Weight is only there to ensure penetration. For defense against humans, anything 155 to 180 will do. 135 would probably work if load to full potential, unlike the Hydrashocks...

[Glock: For Hire]

180's are fine. I use them. I prefer the Pro Load version.

Reasons: The .40 was designed around the 180 grain bullet. I dabbled in the 165 and 155 grain stuff. I'm a retentive nerd and I want both a defensive and practice round in the same weight and velocity. 180's are plentiful in both. With the possible exception of Speer Lawman 165's, a lot of the practice rounds in the latter weight are underpowered. I find 155's have too much recoil (relatively speaking). I find that I shoot 180's the best, and in my world its getting metal on target. I'm confident that out of either my G23 or G27 they will work.

Little anecdote. Take it for what it's worth. A customer came into my gun shop about a year ago and relayed his "story" because we had gotten on a discussion about Glocks and .40 caliber weights. It was this interaction that led me down the 180 path. about 10 years ago, before Texas had CHL, this gentleman used his G23 to defend himself from two armed intruders burglarizing his business while he was there. In the course of the confrontation he shot both of them at least once. The lucky one left with a broken collar bone. His partner sustained a center of mass torso hit, and didn't leave at all, until the coroner came to pick him up. The gentleman who shot in self defense was no billed by the grand jury and got his gun back. He also recieved the two slugs that he used. A pair of fully expanded 180 grain Black Talons. I figure that if it worked for him It could work for me.

Best,

Dave

[vinnier6]

i think there really dangerous if you get shoot with one....

[HOUNDAWG]

According to Ballistic Review tests of various loads (fired in Glocks): "Federal's Hydra Shok series really struts it's stuff in the 180 gr. .40 S&W. Though the crush cavity seemed a bit smaller than the Gold Dot and the SXT, weight retention, .690" recovered diameter through clothing, and 17" penetration put it right up there with the top contenders for personal defense. Recoil was mild with this load." (www.ballisticreview.com)

[Chuck6420]

Hey Bravo,

Glock said they were fixing it for free! Barrel Cracked, extractor also went kuput... slide has to be replaced. they tried to make me pay b/c i had the 3.5 trigger installed, but I asked them if they could tell me exactly how the 3.5lb trigger would make it fire out of battery? They are fixing it though and that's all that matters...
I am not going to keep it when it gets back I am trying to sell the thing!

I have also talked to a few Glock armorers, they said that b/c of the low tolerances of the .40s&w glock frame, the gun begins to develop "pining marks" on the slide. also happens in .357sig(Go Figure) if these pining marks begin to stick-out into the interior of the gun, then they can cause it to fire while a 1/16 of an inch out of battery... I have pushed the slide of a brand new Glock 17 and watched it been dry-fired out of battery. .I can show you some really bad Pining marks on our G22 that is a rental gun at the indoor range I work at. too bad they won't let me take a picture.
because of the excess pressure of the .40s&w, and the fact they are putting it in a 9mm sized gun, in my opinion it is an accident waiting to happen!

[93GT]

i have had two audible pops in umc .45 ammo. obviously not a .40 180 grain but i stay away from it if i can help it. just my experience maybe not typical, but two is enough times for me to just buy something else. i don't like taking my barrel off and having to punch the bullet out.

[MarkCO]

I have fired over 150,000 rounds of .40 cal, at least 80% of it with 180s. If you work up your reloads carfully, you won't have a problem. Or, if you use factory ammo. Sure, there are anomolies here and there, but anomolies are why we have firearms to defend ourselves!

The 135s tend to have more flash, more muzzle rise and more noise. What do you get for these? Not much! The 155-180 perform equally well if not better on the street, in gelatin, etc. I carry 165 grain Pro-Loads in my .40s (and 200 grain Pro-Loads in my .45s). Pro-load is one of the few that does not neuter the 165. It is the most accurate from my Glocks and performs extremely well in several types of test media. From the shorter barreled G27, the 165s "might" bew a bit better than the 180s. With the short barrel, you lose some velocity. When I tested the 180s, vs. the 165s, vs. the 135s in a G35 and a G27, the mid wieghts offered the most consistentcy in the G27. ;f ;f

[russelldehart]

I had the same dilemma when I got my 40 (a Mauser M2) . Everyone I talked to seem to have a different opinion and I began to think that none really knew what they were talking about. So I split the difference - Federal Hydra-Shok 155 gr.:cool: