Recommend a good red dot??

[El Toro Loco]

Hello All,
I just got a Bushmaster Carbon 15. Put a M-3 light with pressure switch. Now am looking for a scope, would love to mount a EOTech, but low on $$. Any suggestions on a red dot or something similar? Any info would be great.
This will be my patrol rifle, so something durable would be best. Thanks

Alex

[jmb79]

If that's going to be your patrol rifle, I wouldn't skimp on cheap alternatives. Your life could depend on that piece of equipment. Get an Aimpoint with a good mount (e.g. LaRue) or get an EoTech.

[space_weazel]

Patrol for what, who issues Carbons?

[Alaskapopo]

Stick with Irons until you can afford the Eotech or Aimpoint. No sense in wasting money on a cheap failure prone optic.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Patrol for what, who issues Carbons?

A lot of agencies allow their officers to purchase their own guns. I think that is what is going on here. No agency I know of issues Carbons due to the problems they have had with them.
Pat

[RMTactical]

Save for an Eotech.

[Akita]

double post dammit.

[Akita]

Save for an Eotech.
Agree. Dont go cheap when your life may depend on it. FWIW, I prefer the Eotech.
That said, I know people that have sold their Aimpoint to buy an Eotech and I know people that have sold their Eotech to buy an Aimpoint. Be sure to try both and see which YOU prefer.

[USMC03Grunt]

+Whatever we're up to now for either an Aimpoint or Eotech. Buy quality,cry once...but cheap, cry twice.

[Daynja]

broken record time...

eotech or aimpoint. I like the eotech, but the aimpoint is good too. They are both good enough that it's really just up to personal preference.

[MrMurphy]

I'm an Aimpoint guy but whichever of the two you prefer.

I've seen cops with personally owned Carbon15s but not often.

[Skintop911]

Hello All, just got a Bushmaster Carbon 15. Put a M-3 light with pressure switch. Now am looking for a scope, would love to mount a EOTech, but low on $$. Any suggestions on a red dot or something similar? Any info would be great.
This will be my patrol rifle, so something durable would be best. Thanks Alex

Skip the optics, and fund an upgrade to a better carbine.

After that, Aimpoints in good mounts (Larue, KAC) or Eotechs on a Larue mount are worthy of duty. There are others worthy of consideration at higher price points, but none at a lesser ones.

You could also sell that M3 and buy a scope ring and a G2, and have a much more reliable light.

Lives rely upon the gear you choose.

[El Toro Loco]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the advise. I bought the bushmaster from a friend who is going through a divorce who needed the $$ and didn't want his wife to get anything out of it, only paid $800 for it, i thought is was a good deal. I have considered selling it and moving up to a S&W MP. I have a pair of M3's on my duty G17 and one on my G19 house gun, which have never failed me, so will probably stick with that type of light. Looks like I will go ahead and save up for the EOTech. Any good places to look for one? I found one online for $377 w/ free shipping.
Again thanks for the advise, any others would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

[jmb79]

Here's a link to the Glock Talk want ads where EoTechs are being sold at relatively good prices: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=791480

Note that I am in no way affiliated with the seller.

[CU4X4N]

Skip the optics, and fund an upgrade to a better carbine.

+1000

Upgrade to a better carbine.
Heck, even a regular Bushmaster is quite an upgrade from the Carbon series.
Use your LE discount and get an LMT, Colt, or Sabre Defense!

[RMTactical]

I'm an Aimpoint guy but whichever of the two you prefer.

I prefer the Aimpoint as well, but it is a personal choice, and both work well.

[Akita]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the advise. I bought the bushmaster from a friend who is going through a divorce who needed the $$ and didn't want his wife to get anything out of it, only paid $800 for it, i thought is was a good deal. I have considered selling it and moving up to a S&W MP. I have a pair of M3's on my duty G17 and one on my G19 house gun, which have never failed me, so will probably stick with that type of light. Looks like I will go ahead and save up for the EOTech. Any good places to look for one? I found one online for $377 w/ free shipping.
Again thanks for the advise, any others would be greatly appreciated.

Alex
IMO, you'd be moving downward going from a Bushy to a S&W MP. No better than a lateral. But thats just my opinion.

[NeverMore1701]

Possibly true, if he already had a reglar bushy. He has a Carbon. Just about any aluminum AR is an upgrade from the Carbon series.

Get better gun. Stag, regular Bushy, RRA, S&W, Sabre Defence, Colt, LMT, or Noveske will all be a big step up, at varying price points, with different features.

Then get an EOTech or Aimpoint. I like EOTech better, try before you buy if at all possible.

[Daynja]

What's wrong with the carbon 15? I always thought they were too expensive and they don't offer much weight savings, but apparently there is more?

[Vic303]

I own an Aimpoint, and prefer it to the EOTech I have seen. For MY aging eyes, the EoTech is TOO blurry to the point of being annoying, while the single spot of the Aimpoint, while slightly starred, is much less distorted. YMMV. Both are quality red dots.

[Akita]

Possibly true, if he already had a reglar bushy. He has a Carbon. Just about any aluminum AR is an upgrade from the Carbon series.

Get better gun. Stag, regular Bushy, RRA, S&W, Sabre Defence, Colt, LMT, or Noveske will all be a big step up, at varying price points, with different features.

Then get an EOTech or Aimpoint. I like EOTech better, try before you buy if at all possible.Oops, missed that (metal vs carbon). Youre right.
Tho I have Nothing against the carbonfiber ones, I still prefer metal in a service rifle.

[younggun22]

Oops, missed that (metal vs carbon). Youre right.
Tho I have Nothing against the carbonfiber ones, I still prefer metal in a service rifle.

Definatly agree. i feel that the carbon series are complete and total garbage, i work at a gun store and we used to sell and rent one, every one we had including the rental was complete garbage (FTF, FTE, etc.) If your going to use this rifle to defend your life i suggest reconsidering the carbon series.



(flame suit already on)

[WolfiePacker]

i worked for a dealer for a while and we never heard anything really positive about the carbons. I would consider selling it and going with something else. Someone already recommended LMT and Colt, both excellent options, but a bushmaster, RRA, or S&W would serve you fine. Any standard type AR from any major manufacturer would give you better reliability and service life. And if you want a red dot, AimPoints are my pic, especially for a patrol rifle, you can turn the dot on and leave it the entire time you are on patrol (battery life is longgggg) so you don't have to take the extra second to turn it on. Of course one second doesnt sound like anything significant, but if you have to pull the rifle from the car it just might be. just my 2 cents.

[smoke]

Dump the carbon and get a regular Bushy carbine for about the same price. Or get an LMT (Best, IMO) or an RRA.

Contrary to what others have said, you might want to look at the SPOT optic. It's available for about $150 and appears to be a robust sight. From my experience with it, I'd carry it. I've got Aimpoints and EOT's (and even some Aimpoint clones). While the clones only go on play guns, I will be buying a few more SPOTs in the future.

[ducdungt]

+1, hands down for an EOTECH

[John NYPD]

I prefer EOtech. Others prefer Aimpoint. Find someone that will let you try each and buy which ever you prefer.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one.


John

[El Toro Loco]

Hmm...you guys got me rethinking the whole thing. Damn it!!! Looks like i am going to put that Carbon 15 up for sale to move up in quality. Plus the get the EOTech, which i prefer over the AimPoint. I truly appreciate all the help. As mentioned before I only paid $800 for so shouldn't be too hard to get my money out of it and move up. Thanks again all,
Alex

[Skintop911]

Hmm...you guys got me rethinking the whole thing. Damn it!!! Looks like i am going to put that Carbon 15 up for sale to move up in quality. Plus the get the EOTech, which i prefer over the AimPoint. I truly appreciate all the help. As mentioned before I only paid $800 for so shouldn't be too hard to get my money out of it and move up. Thanks again all,
Alex

Alex- You might want to read this as well, before you go shopping. Originally posted by Pat Rogers, reposted with permission:

Having used both Aimpoints and EOTechs since they were first introduced, and having a number of each, these are my opinions.

Price:
EOTech Lower Initial Price
Aimpoint higher initial price.
However, when you cycle in service life expenses (batteries specifically) the cost for either is close enough not to be of consequence.

Mounts
EOTech has an intregal mount.
Aimpoint M-M3 Does not. M4 Does.
Up until the 553 the EOTech mounts used a cross bolt, which appears to be inherently weaker. We have seen a number break.
The 553/ 557 uses a dual lever arms mount which may or may not work on some rails (including true 1913 rails).
You can mount the EOTech on a Larue mount and solve a lot of probelms (the 553/557 won't work on a Larue mount).
The Aimpoint M68 uses a QRP mount. However, the excellent Larue mount is available (and if you are buying an Aimpoint, Larue is the go to guy)

Battery Life
EOTech advertises 1100 hours on the Rev F. None of my 4 would go past 400 hrs, as confirmed in my log books. YMMV
The Aimpoint M3 and T1 have a 50,000 battery life. The M4 has an 80,000 battery life.

Auto Shut Off
The EOTech will shut down at 4 or 8 hours, depending on which button you use to turn it on.
You can leave the Aimpoint on always. I never turn any mounted on my company guns off- not ever.
This means cop or civilian using a RDS for HD can just deal with getting the gun into action, not both gun and sight

Durability
The EOTech battery box has some issues. It may not be water resistent, and moisture will cause it to leak and batteries to corrode. A hemostat should be issued with it.
The Aimpoint is waterproof
We see significantly less Aimpoint problems then EOTech problems at class. We supervise appx 600,000 to 900,000 rds downrange yearly. Most of the shooters are running either an Aimpoint or EOTech.

Customer Service.
EoTech has excellent customer service!
Aimpoint has excellent customer service- the one guy that is actually there..
He is like the Maytag guy.

From my perspective, they are both viable sights. The later versions of each are of course better then the older versions (go figure...)
From the timer, and over extended periods, the difference in target acquisition/ accurate engagement is just about equal, with faster going back and forth between shooters.
I have engaged pepper poppers out to 400m with both sights. I have engaged pepper poppers out to 500m, but didn't have an EO with me at the time. That is farther then the useful range of the 5.56x45mm cartridge.

I prefer the Aimpoint for durability, battery life and the fact that it doesn't shut itself off, but can use both with equal competence.
Both are good companies.

There are 500,000 older M68's in military service, and 233,000 of the newer
M68 (the Comp M4) in military service.
There are a lesser number of EOTechs in service.
Both are good companies, and they are the only two RDS that are viable for hard use.

See "Running The Red Dot Sight Right", Swat Magazine, Jan 2008 issue for more.
__________________
S/F
Pat sends
Never forget those who died
Never forget those who killed them

[Panzerfaust]

Flat top - EOTech.
A2- Scout mounted Aimpoint.

[RWBlue]

I went with the EOTech for one reason, it works with AA batteries.

Note, I got the one that works with my night vision, and my night vision also works with AA batteries.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Alex- You might want to read this as well, before you go shopping. Originally posted by Pat Rogers, reposted with permission:

That post, as well as others like it, by Pat were what led to me ditching an EOTech 553 for an Aimpoint M4 which I promptly bolted to a LaRue LT-659, and haven't looked back for a second. I only wish I could have come across this kind of info when I did my initial shopping for a RDS, and saved myself the later hassle. Bottom line: when Pat Rogers speaks, I shut up and listen.:beer:

[Skintop911]

That post, as well as others like it, by Pat were what led to me ditching an EOTech 553 for an Aimpoint M4 which I promptly bolted to a LaRue LT-659, and haven't looked back for a second. I only wish I could have come across this kind of info when I did my initial shopping for a RDS, and saved myself the later hassle. Bottom line: when Pat Rogers speaks, I shut up and listen.:beer:

It's no coincidence that there's a steady supply of Eotechs in the want ads, but few Aimpoints.

[MrMurphy]

Having abused the hell out of my issued Aimpoint ?M68) Comp M2, I'm in the Aimpoint crowd for a reason.

I don't get lots of range time with it but I've smacked/bashed/rubbed/scraped it into everything possible, had it frozen/roasted/rained on/etc for a couple years.