Wilson M4-T Upgrade

[SIGShooter]

I need some help with my M4 upgrade...

This is what I would like to do with my Wilson M4-T

1. Daniel Defense free float rail.

http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=26

2. I have been thinking about doing the YHM Spectre XL lightweight kit but I am having doubts about changing out to a low profile gas block. I kind of like the front sight post that I have and I have some reservations about using a flip up front sight and not having the "toughness" of a fixed front sight.

http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/forearmkits.html
(Third one down)

3. I am changing out the current Match trigger with a RRA Standard trigger.

4. I'm replacing all lower receiver parts to RRA parts.

5. I did an inspection of my rifle and I found that the bolt key is getting marred by the gas tube. What could be causing this problem? If I need to change out the gas tube can it be a DIY job or do I NEED a gunsmith?

6. Currently I have a Wilson flip up rear sight. I really don't like it. I am thinking of changing it out to a Troy flip up rear. Is Troy a good company?

7. If anyone could recommend me a reputable gunsmith here in NW Florida I would greatly appreciate it. Preferably in the Fort Walton Beach/Pensacola area.

Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll have more to add later.

[jrs93accord]

I have one question, why did you buy a Wilson M4-T and decide to change out parts? I can see adding the DD forend, not the JP trigger group and the LPK. As for an armorer, Phil at Jay's Guns & Accssories II (850-434-5556) in Pensacola is you best bet.

[SIGShooter]

Alright, where to begin...

I've been having some problems with my safety. I'll engage the safety, bring the weapon down to low ready and then up to engage targets. Sometimes the safety lever will go half way past the "Fire" marker. The safety detent was marred and worn and the safety lever itself was marred and worn. The trigger is, IMHO, too light. When the trigger is fired from reset it will sometimes lock and I have to force it forward. The gas tube and the bolt key are marred, badly. It looks like someone took a wood file to it and just started beating it. (There are currently just over a 1,000 rounds through it. All of it has been M193, M855, BHA 69 Gr. SMK) Wilson has a pretty good warranty program. That's awesome because my CQB has some parts that need to be replaced and I want to have new grips installed. I called Wilson, put in my request. and I was told they will call me and let me know what they are going to do. I waited a week. No call. I called again. I was told the same thing. I waited another week. I emailed the lady that was taking care of me and I called again. No answer. I left 4 messages and 3 emails over the course of another 4 weeks. No one has gotten back with me. It has been 4 months. Not one email or missed call.

I have been doing business with Wilson for 3 years now. I have never had a single problem with them until now. I had my heart set on owning a 1911, M4 and a 12 Ga. all by the same manufacturer. I've used Wilson before (First Wilson was a Professional) and I like their product and they were able to meet my needs and wants. 5,000 dollars and 3 weapons later I get no customer service. The guy that was taking care of me for those 3 years ended up quiting Wilson and now works for Nighthawk. (That is a whole other story) I will never buy another Wilson again. I would actually like to sell them all and get different makes and models and be done with Wilson for good. But, it has been a "dream" of mine to own what I have. So, in the mean time I will just upgrade them and not deal with Wilson again.

I can say this, something I didn't know, Nighthawk was started and is owned by former Wilson employees and financial backers. That was interseting to learn.

Okay, I'm done.

Oh, if anyone ever wants a Nighthawk, I have a very good friend that now works there.

[jrs93accord]

SIGShooter,

I am disturbed by Wilson's reluctancy to make things right. That would make me very cautious about buying a firearm from them. For the money you paid for the M4-T, I would expect nothing but a stellar performance from the carbine. I can now see why you are needing to replace parts. That just goes to prove that sometimes you do not get what you paid for. A big league name does not mean you always get good quality. I think once you get the LPK (that includes the trigger group) changed, you may be little happier with it.

[JohnJak]

If it's not right Wilson will make it right.

[K. Foster]

Sigshooter
I recommend you post dissatisfaction with their service on every firearms forum you can find. Maybe that will get their attention. I have the upmost respect for Bill Wilson as an individual but the company has gotten so commercialized that they let customer satisfaction fall through the cracks.

[SIGShooter]

I'm having problems posting a quote. If I can't get it done from work I'll try from home.




EDITED TO ADD: I've got to do my next posts as seperate. What's going on with that???

[SIGShooter]

If it's not right Wilson will make it right.


At one time they would, but not now.


A little more to the story...


When I got all of my weapons in from Wilson I decided, what the hell, let's have a range day! Cleaned and inspected the weapons. PERFECT! Just as I expected. CQB was first in the chute, 100%. Border Patrol, 100%. M4-T, 20%. For the M4, I was using Winchester M193 ammo. Every 5th or 6th round, jam. Failed to extract. The extractor was ripping the lip off of the case. I had to bang the casing out of the chamber with a cleaning rod. First thought, BAD AMMO! I went and picked up every case that I fired (200) and checked/inspected every case I found. Measured, pictures, drop in chamber, drop in chamber of other M4s. Cases kept getting stuck in the Wilson.

[SIGShooter]

Fast forward a week, trouble shooting out the butt. I call Wilson. The guy I have been doing business with, since day one, says send it in. I did. They paid for everything. Here's were it gets interesting. Wilson's gunsmith tells me, they can't recreate the problem. He says it's my fault. (Me, prior military, armorer certified for 6 years) I said well I don't know what to tell you other than the facts I have given. I even sent them cases (From the 200 spent cases that I collected, all were marked. The cases that got stuck were marked with a black sharpie and the cases that functioned flawlessly were not marked. I gave 10 of each). This guy tells me that there is nothing wrong with the cases, it's me. I told him that Wilson needs to fix my M4 or refund me the money for it. I asked to speak to my POC. He flipped when he heard this. I got a call back about an hour later. It was the same gunsmith. He tells me that, you guessed it, they recreated the problem. Upon further inspection they found that when the M4 was being Armor Tuffed, the finish was sprayed into the chamber. QC missed this "little" problem. I said "little?" This could have been a very bad day for me or my family if we had a KB because of this. The smith apologized about a 100 times to me.

[SIGShooter]

Fast forward a week, the M4 comes back. I take it to the range. Bang, Bang, Bang, jam. No problem. SPORTS. Nothing. SPORTS again. Nothing. Go to put the weapon on safe, it doesn't go. Ok. Try again. Weapon goes on safe, safety lever goes all the way around back to fire. WHAT?!?! I try again. Weapon goes to safe. I drop the mag and clear the malf. Ok. Now the safety. Clear weapon, break it down, give it a once over. Safety is malfunctioning big time. Won't go on safe, won't come off safe. Finally it gets stuck between safe and fire. It's going back! I called my POC right there from the range. He's pissed. Send it back ASAP! Over nighted it Fed-Ex. Same smith calls me the next day. "We can't recreate the problem." "I think you're forcing the weapon on and off safe that's why the safety is malf." I told him to pound sand and fix my weapon. I gave him a choice to fix it or refund me. This is the second time in a week that this weapon has malfunctioned enough for it to be sent back. He didn't want to hear it.

[SIGShooter]

My wife wrote an email to Bill Wilson. (Yes, she is a lot better at writing down how she feels then I am) Well, the smith calls me back the next day. He says, we found the problem. The safety detent spring was out of spec. ???????????? For $1750.00 it better be made of adamantium and indestructible!!! He told me that "When I am wrong I can admit it. I was wrong and I apologize." I said that's great. You did this same thing to me with my first issue. You made me look like an idiot and didn't want to help me. I said I want a full refund of all of my money from Wilson and I will be sending all of my weapons back to Wilson so they can refund me for those.

[SIGShooter]

My POC get's back on the phone and says NO I'M NOT! They are building me a new rifle as we speak. I will have it in a week. My POC took care of me from start to finish. Never a bad word or a pointed finger. He apologized for the way I was treated and he assured me that Bill Wilson got my wife's email and this issue was being dealt with. He kept to his word. That gun smith no longer works at Wilson. My POC at Wilson, who is a good friend, left Wilson a week or so later. I've talked to him recently and he said "That was the straw that broke the camels back." He didn't agree with the way Wilson was treating their customers and he left.

[SIGShooter]

Fast forward, it has been FOUR (4) months and not as much as a missed call from any Wilson employee. Again, my safety is malfunctioning. The trigger is failing. I would like customer service. I've been a dedicated Wilson customer for 3+ years now. I can say that in that time I have spent close to 10,000 dollars of my money on Wilson. Pieces, parts, springs, magazines. I think I have the right to good customer service.

[SIGShooter]

Sorry for all of those posts. For some reason I cannot post one "big" post here.


Oh well...


K. Foster,

To me, it isn't worth my time going to every gun board. I like GT and will post my story here. If the word gets out, fine, if not, fine. Wilson has lost a dedicated customer. I won't do business with them again. I'll spend 5k elsewhere.

[jrs93accord]

SIGShooter,

I say call Phil at Jay's (850) 434-5556 and see what he can do.

[Punkkin]

If it's not right Wilson will make it right.

Wow, That's what I'd thought also. Guess not.

[SIGShooter]

SIGShooter,

I say call Phil at Jay's (850) 434-5556 and see what he can do.


I went to Jay's yesterday. As soon as I get my DD rail and RRA parts kit I'm heading out there. Thanks for the number. I know where it's at but I never get a number when I go there.

[SIGShooter]

A couple of before pictures...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/M4Te.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/M4Td.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/M4Tf.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/M4Th.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k299/davidjinks/M4Ti.jpg


I'll post the after pictures once it's done.

[jrs93accord]

I went to Jay's yesterday. As soon as I get my DD rail and RRA parts kit I'm heading out there. Thanks for the number. I know where it's at but I never get a number when I go there.

You are welcome. I will be home for the next week still recovering from my back surgery. Give me a shout. E-mail me and I will give you the number.

reaja@cox.net

[SIGShooter]

Will do.