CArrying into a business with a no-carry sign?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : CArrying into a business with a no-carry sign??


pens-66
12-12-2007, 12:03
I had a quick question here...can someone tell me if you were to carry into a business that displayed a no-carry sign in its window,and happened to be made,are you in deep dodo with the law or can a business only ask you to leave...please help me on this one.The handbook isnt really clear to me on this.:wavey:

Ol' 12-toes
12-12-2007, 15:00
I had a quick question here...can someone tell me if you were to carry into a business that displayed a no-carry sign in its window,and happened to be made,are you in deep dodo with the law or can a business only ask you to leave...please help me on this one.The handbook isnt really clear to me on this.:wavey:I think you're expected to go to the AG's site to read the actual law so you don't get zinged by information in outdated booklets.

The business just calls the cops and you're good for 30 days/$250. As this is 'only' a misdemeanor, this law has no practical effect on people who are already commiting a felony by carrying while under disability or concealed without a permit.

pens-66
12-12-2007, 15:07
I think you're expected to go to the AG's site to read the actual law so you don't get zinged by information in outdated booklets.

The business just calls the cops and you're good for 30 days/$250. As this is 'only' a misdemeanor, this law has no practical effect on people who are already commiting a felony by carrying while under disability or concealed without a permit.

I have the updated booklet and still seems unclear...I have heard many say that all the business can do is ask you to leave,with no consequences by the law..Was just hopeing to get some input maybe from LEO here

thorn137
12-12-2007, 17:23
The law requires that you KNOWLINGLY violated the sign before entering, in order to be charges with the misdemeanor. If you didn't see the sign, and didn't know it was forbidden, then you merely have to leave when requested.

thorn

Linda
12-12-2007, 20:25
It's a misdemeanor trespass charge.

Hask12
12-13-2007, 06:18
Linda's right, and the police I have spoken to have said they probably wouldn't even charge you, but instead would just explain to you how the law works. Although that's by no means a guarantee.

pens-66
12-13-2007, 06:30
Linda's right, and the police I have spoken to have said they probably wouldn't even charge you, but instead would just explain to you how the law works. Although that's by no means a guarantee.

Well thats what I thought..I havent been carring where there are signs posted...but with all the talk that all they can do is ask you to leave,then I would.With all these shootings and crap going on anymore,I just get paranoid when I'm not carrying.That last thing I would want to do is jeapordize my right to carry! My brother in law is a police officer and also says they probably wont do anything...But I don't like "PROBABLY"...I'd like a guarantee!

Racsan
12-13-2007, 08:05
The law requires that you KNOWLINGLY violated the sign before entering, in order to be charges with the misdemeanor. If you didn't see the sign, and didn't know it was forbidden, then you merely have to leave when requested.

thorn

Over the last 4 years, the medical community has seen a sharp rise in a strange medical condition known as "Gun Buster Blindness". :whistling: It severely limits a persons ability to see certain shapes like a firearm symbol and the circle/slash symbol. There used to be a few signs around town, but lately they have either taken them down or this newly discovered medical condition has been getting worst. Fortunately no one is currently looking for a cure.

pens-66
12-13-2007, 08:23
Over the last 4 years, the medical community has seen a sharp rise in a strange medical condition known as "Gun Buster Blindness". :whistling: It severely limits a persons ability to see certain shapes like a firearm symbol and the circle/slash symbol. There used to be a few signs around town, but lately they have either taken them down or this newly discovered medical condition has been getting worst. Fortunately no one is currently looking for a cure.

:rofl:I think I'm gettin a touch of that here lately:wavey:

Linda
12-13-2007, 10:47
Over the last 4 years, the medical community has seen a sharp rise in a strange medical condition known as "Gun Buster Blindness". :whistling: It severely limits a persons ability to see certain shapes like a firearm symbol and the circle/slash symbol. There used to be a few signs around town, but lately they have either taken them down or this newly discovered medical condition has been getting worst. Fortunately no one is currently looking for a cure.


NICE!:wow:

:rofl:

elderboy02
12-14-2007, 10:42
:rofl:I think I'm gettin a touch of that here lately:wavey:

Me too. It is hard to see them with the no smoking signs up. If someone ever got caught, one might be able to argue that they didn't KNOWINGLY see it because they thought it was a no smoking sign.

Hask12
12-14-2007, 11:48
If there was ever a place you needed to carry, it would be in a "Gun Free" zone

anyplainjoe
12-14-2007, 12:53
Hey Linda,

any update on the Marion situation?

flitcrma
12-14-2007, 14:03
I don't know about you folks, but I've never 'knowingly' seen a no gun sign.

Linda
12-15-2007, 07:35
Hey Linda,

any update on the Marion situation?

Not yet! Apparently not settled, since Ken has not talked about it yet.

Catalina
01-12-2008, 17:18
There is no provision in our law for being asked to leave.

If you knowingly cross the threshold of a criminal protection zone (gunbuster sign) while carrying you are guilty of criminal trespass in the fourth degree.

Unfortunately proving the unknowningly part requires a trial.

Here's a current case of someone busted pending in the Cleveland suburbs: Sun News (http://www.cleveland.com/sun/policeblotter/index.ssf?/base/cops-0/119748875639230.xml&coll=4) and the Berea Court Docket (http://www.bereamunicipalcourt.org/casesummary.asp?ccn=07CRB02044&pageId=32)

2911.21
(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:

(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;

(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard;

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;

(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.

(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.

(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception.

(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

(E) As used in this section, “land or premises” includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof.

Swanny
01-17-2008, 18:38
If you are doing a good job of concealing your gun, how is anyone ever going to know?

Blitzer
01-17-2008, 19:15
Ohio; another reason to use a Smartcarry holster! ;)

hagar
01-17-2008, 20:56
I'm an old fart. The only thing I can see, is the front sight of my Glock, and a metal detector.

firedog978
01-18-2008, 05:13
Far be it from me to tell anyone when and where to carry. I'd like to see no criminal safe zones at all.

I have written many letters to businesses that post no gun signs. In every one of those letters, I have made statements that a person holding a CCW license from the state of Ohio is one of the most law-abiding people they could encounter. I have let them know about the criminal background checks and the assurances by the state that all these people are sane, have recieved training on a number of issues about carrying concealed (including the illegal places as defined in that training). I let them know that I refuse to spend even one thin dime in those businesses that choose to post such signs. In some cases after my letters, the signs have been removed, some have not.

That said, a few of the above posts make it very difficult to convince the general public and certainly the antis, that CCW licensees are law-abiding.

There are ways of changing their minds and/or the ridiculous laws. There are businesses at hand that do not choose to take away your 2nd Amendment rights. Use them! It's very difficult to continue to convince people that CCW licensees are some of the most law-abiding people they can encounter if they pick and choose which laws to obey.

Hask12
01-18-2008, 06:17
I completely understand what you are saying and I agree with you completely.
At the same time it doesn't do me any good if I'm lying there dead because I couldn't protect myself. It's a problem we all must deal with, fortunately as time goes on there are fewer and fewer signs posted. Probably the best way to handle it is to turn around and walk away, and go elsewhere.

KnightOfTheOlde
01-19-2008, 10:09
Be Especially careful about Class D permit holders, even if they do not dispense Alcohol by the glass for consumption on the premises.,

anyplainjoe
01-19-2008, 19:44
any update on the Marion case?