Sunday hunting shot down [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HAWGLEG
05-15-2002, 14:21
West Virginia's primary election included a ballot initiative on Sunday hunting. And it was voted down in all 35 counties where the elections were held. I'm an outdoors writer who's been pulling for Sunday hunting for two decades and was crushed with the outcome of this election -- most particularly because the voters were allowed to decide that I can't even hunt on my own land.
This was a grievous day for hunters, landowners and gun owners in WV.

Grey Wolf
05-15-2002, 14:33
Sorry to hear that news. I wish you all the luck in future attempts to get rid of bad laws. Wow this means people who work 5 days a week can only hunt say 4 times during a 4 week season... that would suck. Good Luck
Later
Grey Wolf

jamieray
05-15-2002, 16:00
i wouldnt be able to take that im gald i have it good here in wisconsin

shrpshtr
05-16-2002, 01:55
sorry to hear it Hawg. i know that would make things tough on me because i usually hunt all day on Sundays. good luck in changing things in the future.

duncan
05-16-2002, 06:40
What, you can't worship in the morning and go hunting for a nice Sunday supper in W VA?

Terrible.

Thought there were a good amount of hunters there!

smoney
05-16-2002, 12:18
well, there are other views to the working man, the flip side being that everyone and everything needs time to rest, times when you can go out and not worry about being shot while you go about your normal duties. a time free of gunshots.

yes, i am a hunter, used to be an avid hunter. 4 days in a 4 week season, hardly, deer season here encompases the week around thanksgiving and is basically a holiday in this area.

and you guessed it, i was am and will continue to be against sunday hunting.

PACKIN' PLASTIC
05-16-2002, 13:04
That is very, very stupid.


PP

HAWGLEG
05-16-2002, 13:18
I'm of the mindset that if you oppose Sunday hunting (inflcting your views on me, whatever they may be) you should sell your guns because you don't deserve to own them.

You can oppose Sunday hunting and go to church or do whatever in the world you want to do, without interfering with my recreation.

A vote against Sunday hunting in an election is a vote against the rights of a free individual to choose what he wants to do on Sunday. I choose to hunt.

smoney
05-16-2002, 13:50
well, i am sorry i don't meet the criteria to own guns in your eyes, glad you aren't king. thats why they call it an election, and a democracy, you vote and the majority rules.

guess the city life is different, you go out and hunt a week or 2 a year, when you live in the country those 2 weeks are generally don't let your children go out side, watch your pets/livestock closely and be wary of not wearing blaze orange for a time when you aren't hunting. because everyone is out shooting at anything that moves. i like to hunt, i think its a great sport and recreation. but everyone and everything needs a break, there are apparently more people with a mindset of such, than there are people who want to hunt. the vast majority of west virginians i know are hunters. so go figure they should all sell their guns then, and become mindless peasants.

HAWGLEG
05-16-2002, 14:00
The election was a primary in Democrat-dominated WV. Had this issue been placed on a general election ballot (legislators were afraid to do that because Sunday hunting then might have remained alive) it might have been considered a fair election.

I own my own land and don't fancy having others tell me what I can or cannot do on it. Every hunter and gun owner everywhere should feel the same way.

smoney
05-16-2002, 14:09
well, goes to show i am a republican. it is easy to cry not fair and gripe about it.

sounds to me like you need a little country all by your lonesome, where laws don't apply to you. i drive a sports car and i certainly do NOT appreciate people telling me i can't drive faster than 25,35,40,45,55,65, or even 70. but i live in society and i have to obey the laws, created by a majority.

remember just because i disagree with you does not mean that i am incorrect, or "wrong" as you so elloquently put it. i just have a different view.

Tphipps
05-16-2002, 14:09
I moved to WV 12 years ago and was surprised by the ban on Sunday hunting. From where I came from (out West) Sunday was always the best hunting day. I also was surprised by the vote, but there was a lot of politics involved and it was a bad piece of legislation. There should have been no distinction between public and private hunting. If anything, the Sunday hunting should have been on public land, not private, or on both equally. And I think there was a lot of legitimate fear on the part of private landowners that hunting would go on Sundays without any DNR enforcement of the private/public distinction.

Lets face it, in WV the DNR does not have the manpower to enforce the hunting and fishing laws. I have been doing both actively for 12 years and have yet to encounter a DNR agent. It was really pressure from the Farm Bureau and private landowners that defeated the bill. When it fails in all counties in a State that is made up almost entirely of gun owners, hunters, and fishermen, there had to be something wrong with the bill.


Tim

(by the way, I voted for Sunday hunting and I still love this State!)

HAWGLEG
05-16-2002, 15:11
No one else would sit still for having voters decide how they participate in any recreational activities.
So Smoney?? is it? Who owns a sports car? Why don't we have a vote on you parking your car on Sundays. How would you like that? I'm sure you wouldn't like being told to park it on Sundays.
And that's what this issue was all about. I'm a landowner and don't need voters holding illegal elections to tell me what I can or can't do on my own land.
As for there not being enough game wardens in WV, I would have to disagree. There are an adequate number (some would say more than enough), if only those in the field would do their jobs.
Sunday hunting is a gun owners rights issue, a hunting issue and a landowners' rights issue that should never have been placed on a primary election ballot.
It looks like time for litigation now -- time to fire up the lawyers and file a pile of lawsuits.

smoney
05-17-2002, 02:24
give someone a pen and they think they know it all and are the only opinion that matters, thats why i read very few gun magazines and take what i do read with a grain of salt.

i made a refrence to one totally different law and now you and your wounded journalistic ego are trying to take my words and twist them into something they aren't.

as for commenting that our DNR Law enforment officers aren't doing thier jobs, that is far from the case, look at the ratio of hunters to officers not to mention they are issued a handgun, and put in a rifle fight with many of thier suspects/perpetrators. Is anything enough for you?

if YOU believe the election was illegal, get a lawyer and file suit, if you aren't going to don't complain. Suddenly you lose and OH NO it was ILLEGAL!

and it is NOT a gun owners rights issue no matter how hard you TRY to make it one, they didn't say you can't shoot on sunday, can't carry a gun on sunday, just can't HUNT on sunday. it involves the use of a firearm, but does not erode the rights to own, or fire a gun.

badbilly429
05-17-2002, 03:23
im not sure how it works in mihigan now i would have to check the new rule book, but in certain counties in michigan hunting on private land on sundays was not allowed unless you owned the land. due to the fact that we used to have a program where you could purchase a book of land owners and farmers from the dnr and these land owners would let you hunt their property. well they didnt want to be bothered on sundays, so they instated this rule, and even now that the program is gone, the dnr has never changed the rule to my knowledge. but hunting on public land is allowed.

HAWGLEG
05-17-2002, 07:30
Smoney,
This is supposed to be a pro-hunting forum and it appears you've taken an anti-hunting stance here.
As for crying foul after the election. You're wrong again. I've been writing about this issue for 20 years. And more than a year ago when elections came up in the State Legislature, I claimed then that voters don't have a right to tell a landowner what he can or can't do on his own land.
And you're right. I'm workjing with a team of lawyers right now to start suing everyone involved with the issue. We're hoping the NRA may step in and help out.
You're either pro-hunting or you aren't. In this case, it appears you aren't. I'd find another forum. Perhaps the PETA or Friends of Animals Web-Sites would better suit your needs.

smoney
05-17-2002, 14:51
you are very wrong i am pro hunting, it is a great recreation, and a very valuable asset in the population control aspect of wildlife managment. not to mention i the best turkey is wild turkey adn deer vennison is delicious and very healthy.

Your heartless, rude and ignorant slander is not appreciated, i suppose in this case you feel you speak for the forum in telling me to find another one.

HAWGLEG
05-17-2002, 15:02
On issues that deal with guns and hunting, you're either all in or all out. By siding against hunting on Sunday, you're taking sides with all of the worst enemies of hunting and gun rights in America.
Every animal rights group in the state pushed to kill Sunday hunting, along with every other group that anti-sportsman -- of which the WV Farm Bureau is the worst.
If you're offended for taking the wrong side on an important issue like this one, then it sounds to me like you're a little thin-skinned.
Again, you're either in or out on these issues. There is no middle ground any more.
I once had an old turkey hunter (who wanted to ban rifles in spring gobbler season) say he didn't care if there were bans on assault style firearms, because he'd never own one.
The problem with his philosophy was that by taking a stand against those guns, he was taking a stand against a lot of legitimate gun owners -- many of whom fought in a multitude of wars for their country to give him all the gun rights he so enjoys.
Understand where this is going yet?
Siding on the right side in these debates is somethign every one of us has to do, even if with disagree with an occasional issue. The reason we have to go that route is that enough resistance already exists out there on the other side.
I shouldn't have to explain this to an NRA member. Unbelievable!!!

smoney
05-17-2002, 15:20
and many of us vote for differing reasons, respecting this is part of being an adult, and not verbally assaulting peole that you believe in. since sunday hunting HAS been against the law for many years (ever since i can remember) i don't see how it can be twisted into such a huge debate. as for the animal rights, other liberal nut case associations just jump on anything that sounds good.

i realize that we have to fight many battles as hunters, as gun owners, and as shooters. but i just don't see this being one of them, and i wish you the best of luck in your lawsuits, and may the just way prevail, that is why we have these avenues.

silenthunter
05-17-2002, 16:35
While reading this thread these things jump out. I couldn't help it I had to add my 1.5 cents :)

smoney
"give someone a pen and they think they know it all and are the only opinion that matters"

Isn't this what your trying to do?



smoney
", look at the ratio of hunters to officers not to mention they are issued a handgun, and put in a rifle fight with many of thier suspects/perpetrators"

"well, there are other views to the working man, the flip side being that everyone and everything needs time to rest, times when you can go out and not worry about being shot while you go about your normal duties. a time free of gunshots. "

Why do you have this opinion of hunters? Are you sure your a hunter?



smoney
"well, i am sorry i don't meet the criteria to own guns in your eyes, glad you aren't king. thats why they call it an election, and a democracy, you vote and the majority rules. "


demorcracy is mob rule. We have a Republic. Are you sure your a republican?

and yes I'm for sunday hunting. real hunters are not a threat to others just because there hunting.They make sure of there targets and backstops.

smoney
05-18-2002, 00:49
the saftey for a non hunter in the woods Has gotten better in recent years, namely since the hunter saftey program has been put into effect, i do wish more hunters would be more conscious.

that opinion of hunters. with 90% of hunters we don't need DNR Agents/Officers however that other 10% is continually breaking the laws, including hunting on private land which they don't have permission, Spotlighting (hence previous example look eyes, lets shoot (bang) oops that was a cow, not a deer.

no, i am not forcing my opinion on anyone, i am not the party who began to slander another with insults.

real hunters. well, the majority are, its the few others that shoot at anything that moves that creates a problem. (ooh that doesn't happen... look at the hunting accidents) and we are required to take a class before we can get a hunting license for this reason.

i am not down on all hunters, i know many and have a great respect for most of them.

1.5 cents :-) that after taxes

HAWGLEG
05-18-2002, 06:56
Smoney writes,
"i am not down on all hunters, i know many and have a great respect for most of them.''

In an earlier post he wrote that he was a hunter.
This guy is a troll and I'm finished arguing with him.

smoney
05-18-2002, 07:57
how polite, calling a fellow poster, and a moderator a troll. apparently intelect much like intellegence shouldn't be taken for granted.

why can't some people be able to disagree and still get along.

HAWGLEG
05-18-2002, 08:16
Smoney:
You're obviously not interested in preserving my right as a landowner to hunt on my own land. Rights don't get anyu more basic than that. You need a serious re-assessment of your view of what "rights'' really are.
Take some of your own advice about joining the NRA to preserve our rights. You're deiniftely not an all-in gun rights advocate and probably shouldn't be a moderator on GlockTalk with an anti-hunting (which translates into anti-gun) attitude.
You, and everyone like you, are the reason we've lost so many gun rights as we stand today. Again, you're either all-in as a gun rights advocate, or you're a troll, hanging out on a forum where you probably don't belong.

Deuce
05-18-2002, 08:37
smoney, you're a moderator on a pro-gun forum stating that you don't think a man has a right to hunt on his, or public, land on a particular day of the week? That just don't add up!

I don't blame Hawg for getting so upset with you. We deal with anti-gunners all the time who say they don't want to take our guns away while they've got their hands in our safe. As such, just because you say you are pro-gun and pro-hunting, doesn't mean you really are.

If you aren't able to step away from insisting that you cannot possibly be wrong on this issue, then you're not likely to see the (no, not even hyprocisy ... just) out and out anti-gun rhetoric that you are spewing.

Hawg's point about you having to leave your car sit all day Sunday was an excellent analogy ... maybe you should think about it.

The reasons you've given for voting against hunting on Sundays, beyond simply deciding that Sunday is the day everyone should rest (where do you get off anyhow?), are completely applicable to voting against anyone hunting on any number of days of the week or any time of the year, or at all.

Actually, I shouldn't even bother with you. You're statements about how everyone has to live by the vote of the majority proves your inclination ... the aforementioned "mob-rule". If the majority voted that anyone who earned in excess of $100,000/yr had to pay that excess as taxes for redistribution to those under the mark, would that be the right thing to do?

HAWGLEG
05-18-2002, 08:48
Deuce,
Thanks for weighing in with some reasonable help against this Smoney character. I'm getting tired of pointing out to him how wrong he is.
Again. Thanks for the help.
HAWGLEG

smoney
05-18-2002, 08:59
i never insisted that i was right. just how i felt, my eyes have been opened to some of the sponsors of this, and bad politics that have angered many people. so why didn't the hunters get out and VOTE. no mater what thier registration card was, it was on both ballots. had i know what i know now i may have voted the other way, or atleast not voted against it.

as self procalimed pro gun activists, shouldn't you try to educate, and persuade people to se your point of view. not piss them off. A good part of my change in attitude is due to a friend and hunter whom is much more educated on the local political BS than i.

calling me anti-gun is not only missing the mark, it is totally nuts, i have introduced atleast a half dozen people to firearms this year, alone, this isn't just taking them to shoot, its convincing them to buy a gun, join the NRA or other organizations. and become more proficient marksmen/women. and i probabally shoot more than most people here. i am a competitive IDPA and USPSA shooter, and logged about 30,000 rounds last year, and will shoot far more than that this year.

SteelGuitar
05-18-2002, 09:25
i wonder who will obey that law. e.g. it is illegal to hunt crows in new mexico. yeah like anybody would believe that nobody shoots crows in nm.;N ;N ;N
or like there is a season on groundhogs. (i am not 100% but i think that there really is one in some states and yes everyone pays attention to those seasons)

;) ;)

smoney
05-18-2002, 10:07
lol. in WV those laws are "continuous open season"

Deuce
05-18-2002, 12:21
Hawg, any time.

Smoney, I sincerely appreciate your efforts to introduce new people to guns in a positive way (ie. shooting sports). I'm also encouraged that you have reconsidered your vote, albeit halfway. However, you must understand that if, let's say Charlton Heston, with his pro-gun efforts, were to have voted as you did, given the chance, that he would have been wrong as well and nearly the entire NRA membership would have been calling for his head on a platter. Regardless, after reading what you have stated in previous posts on this thread, if you truly wish to consider yourself pro-gun, I strongly encourage you to review your overall political beliefs (ie. "mob-rule"). Also, it's a dangerous world ... you're more likely to be injured or killed in a car accident than from a hunter's stray bullet ... and, a blaze orange cap while strolling through the forest will practically guarantee against that ... and, if it doesn't, then you've got a problem that can't be solved by prohibiting hunting on a particular day of the week. At some point, you simply have to respect other people's rights and freedom and take a little responsibility for your own safety.

As a great philosopher once said "Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?".

This is a fundamental difference I've noticed between pro-gun and anti-gun people. Pro-gun people are more willing to risk their lives to protect their freedom (ie. against being robbed, raped, tortured, and/or killed). Whereas, anti-gun people are more willing to accept the risk of violations of their freedom in a vain attempt to safeguard their lives. (Good thing our armed forces don't have this attitude when they go into battle)

I feel I've digressed too far now so I'll simply shut up.

younggun58
05-25-2002, 05:03
Since I live in ol' WV I'll just throw in the .02

The bill was defeated in Wood county because there are a lot of farm owners who tell people who don't hunt to vote no and they do. They were worried about their livestock on their land. Since they were at church or sleeping they couldn't keep an eye on their land. That's BS. Just deny permission. Who has the right to tell you when and what time you can hunt on land that you OWN. You OWN it therefore it is YOURS. Not the voters, not the politicians, not the ***hole anti-gunners.


Smoney
What part of WV do you live in anyway that you have to walk around with blaze and watch out for livestock or your children. If you have such irresponsible hunters then have the DNR check out the woods. If you want one day with no gunshots move to Canada otherwise get the hell out W by god V.

toothglock
05-25-2002, 14:22
Hats off to Hawgleg,Deuce,and younggun..See, this is how it all starts..Little by little the anti-gunners chip away at your rights..They slowly erode rights one by one without many even noticing..Then you wake up one day and wonder how this happened..Don't sit back and watch it happen..Deny hunting on Sunday is just the beginning..Next year it might be no hunting on weekends..And so on..You get the picture! Just my two cents worth from a fellow mountaineer from the great State of WVa..

smoney
05-26-2002, 13:15
well aren't you the "by god" west virginian, i was born and raised here, any day when you tell me to leave you will have to fight to make that happen. Its easy to argue freedom when its your side yoru arguing against.

i also stated that since the hunter education program things have gotten a lot better. and i hope it continues to improve.

Lastly, i admitted my wrong on some of the points because my lack of knowlege, ... now a little bit of a task for those of you who are loving to jump into the bandwagon to flame me.... EDUCATE please try not to be so harsh as you were to me, let people know what these people are TRYING to do. that the issue really has very little to do with the actual hunting on sunday. but is about greater things that are trying to be taken from us. ... yes, mind has changed on the vote.. sadly this didn't happen for election day, because my parents and i discussed this and it meant 3 votes the wrong way.

Summary,
it is better to educate than persecute!