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scottyv
12-30-2007, 17:16
Hey all. I need a little clarity on the subject of Carry in a Church. Is it legal or not? I was told today that it was illegal. I had no idea.

NC Bullseye
12-30-2007, 23:47
While churches are not specifically mentioned, if there is a nursery school or bible school at the church it could fall under "educational property" even though it's private.

3/325
12-31-2007, 00:16
Check your state and local laws to be sure; they're not all the same.

Bogey
12-31-2007, 07:40
Churches technically fall under "public gathering place" which is a no no.

Talk to your Pastor, or Church Elders. They might just be very open to the idea of several members carrying.

scottyv
12-31-2007, 10:20
I guess i will have to break down and talk to the Pastor. I have never told anyone accept my wife when I carry.

3/325
12-31-2007, 12:57
I guess i will have to break down and talk to the Pastor. I have never told anyone accept my wife when I carry.

Might be a good idea to keep it that way. It's easier to beg forgiveness than to get permission. It sounds like you're not carrying out of defiance, selfishness, or arrogance, but rather a sincere desire to protect others.

I would suggest talking to your pastor or maybe a deacon about recent events and then asking if he's considered allowing armed volunteers to act as church security. This does two things: It allows you to find out how the church leadership feels about CCW in church without specifying that you carry. It also gives the person you're talking to the opportunity to say "Well, the policy is 'no guns' so I only worry about the ones I see," wink, wink.

Many churches are led by committee where the pastor doesn't necessarily get the final word on everything. He may personally like the idea but is being stonewalled by a board of elders who think differently.

Glock-R1980
12-31-2007, 13:47
I carry in church every Sunday. I don't see anything in the law that prohibits this. I don't teach my students any different. The school part in church is sticky. Although if we're there to learn about God then aren't we in school of some sort also....

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

Bogey
12-31-2007, 14:10
I carry in church every Sunday. I don't see anything in the law that prohibits this. I don't teach my students any different. The school part in church is sticky. Although if we're there to learn about God then aren't we in school of some sort also....

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

Hmmmm.....you seem to be correct. I went to NC Dept. of Justice page, as well as General Statutes page. Couldn't find anything either.

Guess I misheard something.....I don't go to church anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.


Thanks for your info, and causing me to look it up for myself. :thumbsup:

Glock-R1980
12-31-2007, 14:15
Cool

:supergrin:

Hmmmm.....you seem to be correct. I went to NC Dept. of Justice page, as well as General Statutes page. Couldn't find anything either.

Guess I misheard something.....I don't go to church anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.


Thanks for your info, and causing me to look it up for myself. :thumbsup:

scottyv
12-31-2007, 14:21
I carry in church every Sunday. I don't see anything in the law that prohibits this. I don't teach my students any different. The school part in church is sticky. Although if we're there to learn about God then aren't we in school of some sort also....

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

Thanks for that website. That has a lot of useful information, information that isn't in greek or that I need a Juris Doctorate to understand. I think that should be stickied somewhere if it isn't already.

NC Bullseye
01-01-2008, 00:53
This may help a little. Here is the text from the course that the NC Justice Academy teaches for CHP instructors. Thanks again for asking questions, it helps others as well as yourself. It keeps me on my toes too.:supergrin:

Places where permit does not authorize carrying a concealed handgun,
or any firearm

Ten areas are listed in N.C.G.S. 14-415.11(c) as places a concealed
handgun is not allowed by the permit statute. On some of this
location, no firearm, open or concealed, can be lawfully possessed by a
private citizen. Any firearm on those premises is illegal. In others, the
prohibition extends to concealed handguns. These locations are
designated as no concealed handgun zones by the permit statute.
The difference between no firearm zone and no concealed carry
zone is important. A handgun that is openly carried, and not
concealed, does not violate the concealed carry statute and does not
violate the concealed deadly weapon statute, N.C.G.S. 14-269, but the
no firearm zones prohibit open and concealed firearms.

a) Educational property: NO FIREARMS
Educational property is generally that of any public or private
educational institution. Included are the buildings, grounds,
recreation and athletic areas, buses, and A. . . other property
owned, used, or operated (by a public or private educational
institution).@ The educational institution may be a nursery
school or a university. The facility may be an entire hospital or
just a bus. Violation may be a Class I felony, N.C.G.S. 14-
269.2(b).

b) Assembly where admission fee is charged: NO FIREARMS
Any assembly where an admission fee has been charged,
N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

c) Alcoholic beverages sold and consumed: NO FIREARMS
In any place where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
Certain exceptions are provided. Violation is a Class 1
Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

d) Courthouses, state buildings, and federal property: NO
FIREARMS
Firearms are prohibited on certain state property. Enumerated
are the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the
Western Residence of the Governor, or in any building housing
any court of the General Court of Justice. Certain exceptions
are provided. Federal property generally is also forbidden
under various provisions of federal and state statutes.
Violation is a Class 1 Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.4.

e) At a parade, demonstration, funeral, picket line: NO
FIREARMS
Firearms are prohibited in, or as a spectator at, any parade,
funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any
private health care facility, or upon any public place prohibited
by the state or any political subdivision. Violation is a Class 1
Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-277.2.

f) In a law enforcement facility: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In a law enforcement facility, meaning in any building or on
premises occupied by a law enforcement agency of the state, a
county, a municipality, a company police agency, or a campus
law enforcement facility.

g) Department of Correction facility: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In a correctional facility, meaning in a building or on premises
operated by the North Carolina Department of Correction.

h) Offices of state or federal government: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In any building housing only federal or state offices, or in any
office used by the state or federal government in any other
building.

i) Financial institutions: NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS
In a financial institution, including banks, savings and loan, or
credit unions.

j) Anywhere a conspicuous sign posted: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
On any premises where a conspicuous notice is posted, or
statement is made by the person in charge, that carrying a
concealed weapon is prohibited. Any property owner has the
right to prohibit possession of a concealed handgun. Notice
may be given personally by the person in charge of the
premises or by a conspicuous sign.
If the law prohibits only concealed handguns, and not all
firearms, a person with a concealed carry permit will comply
with the law by moving the handgun from a concealed to an
open, nonconcealed position. Of course, that may not be
practical under all circumstances.
Also, a person in charge of any private premises may prohibit
an openly possessed or concealed handgun by using the
trespass law. The occupant can, under the trespass law, order a
person openly carrying a firearm to leave. If the order to leave
is not obeyed, criminal trespass has been committed. Nothing
in the concealed carry statute authorizes possession of any
weapon contrary to the wishes of the person in charge of
private property.
Suppose the person in charge of private property posts a
conspicuous sign prohibiting all firearms, open and concealed,
handguns or long guns. That use of trespass law is probably
valid. Going on that premise may be criminal trespass.

scottyv
01-01-2008, 19:46
This may help a little. Here is the text from the course that the NC Justice Academy teaches for CHP instructors. Thanks again for asking questions, it helps others as well as yourself. It keeps me on my toes too.:supergrin:

Places where permit does not authorize carrying a concealed handgun,
or any firearm

Ten areas are listed in N.C.G.S. 14-415.11(c) as places a concealed
handgun is not allowed by the permit statute. On some of this
location, no firearm, open or concealed, can be lawfully possessed by a
private citizen. Any firearm on those premises is illegal. In others, the
prohibition extends to concealed handguns. These locations are
designated as no concealed handgun zones by the permit statute.
The difference between no firearm zone and no concealed carry
zone is important. A handgun that is openly carried, and not
concealed, does not violate the concealed carry statute and does not
violate the concealed deadly weapon statute, N.C.G.S. 14-269, but the
no firearm zones prohibit open and concealed firearms.

a) Educational property: NO FIREARMS
Educational property is generally that of any public or private
educational institution. Included are the buildings, grounds,
recreation and athletic areas, buses, and A. . . other property
owned, used, or operated (by a public or private educational
institution).@ The educational institution may be a nursery
school or a university. The facility may be an entire hospital or
just a bus. Violation may be a Class I felony, N.C.G.S. 14-
269.2(b).

b) Assembly where admission fee is charged: NO FIREARMS
Any assembly where an admission fee has been charged,
N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

c) Alcoholic beverages sold and consumed: NO FIREARMS
In any place where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
Certain exceptions are provided. Violation is a Class 1
Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.3.

d) Courthouses, state buildings, and federal property: NO
FIREARMS
Firearms are prohibited on certain state property. Enumerated
are the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the
Western Residence of the Governor, or in any building housing
any court of the General Court of Justice. Certain exceptions
are provided. Federal property generally is also forbidden
under various provisions of federal and state statutes.
Violation is a Class 1 Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-269.4.

e) At a parade, demonstration, funeral, picket line: NO
FIREARMS
Firearms are prohibited in, or as a spectator at, any parade,
funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any
private health care facility, or upon any public place prohibited
by the state or any political subdivision. Violation is a Class 1
Misdemeanor, N.C.G.S. 14-277.2.

f) In a law enforcement facility: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In a law enforcement facility, meaning in any building or on
premises occupied by a law enforcement agency of the state, a
county, a municipality, a company police agency, or a campus
law enforcement facility.

g) Department of Correction facility: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In a correctional facility, meaning in a building or on premises
operated by the North Carolina Department of Correction.

h) Offices of state or federal government: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
In any building housing only federal or state offices, or in any
office used by the state or federal government in any other
building.

i) Financial institutions: NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS
In a financial institution, including banks, savings and loan, or
credit unions.

j) Anywhere a conspicuous sign posted: NO CONCEALED
HANDGUNS
On any premises where a conspicuous notice is posted, or
statement is made by the person in charge, that carrying a
concealed weapon is prohibited. Any property owner has the
right to prohibit possession of a concealed handgun. Notice
may be given personally by the person in charge of the
premises or by a conspicuous sign.
If the law prohibits only concealed handguns, and not all
firearms, a person with a concealed carry permit will comply
with the law by moving the handgun from a concealed to an
open, nonconcealed position. Of course, that may not be
practical under all circumstances.
Also, a person in charge of any private premises may prohibit
an openly possessed or concealed handgun by using the
trespass law. The occupant can, under the trespass law, order a
person openly carrying a firearm to leave. If the order to leave
is not obeyed, criminal trespass has been committed. Nothing
in the concealed carry statute authorizes possession of any
weapon contrary to the wishes of the person in charge of
private property.
Suppose the person in charge of private property posts a
conspicuous sign prohibiting all firearms, open and concealed,
handguns or long guns. That use of trespass law is probably
valid. Going on that premise may be criminal trespass.

I appreciate all the great info. I see that churches are not listed as a specific no carry zone. This is a little bit away from the church question now, but am I reading the part about financial institutions correctly. I have always understood financial institutions as a no firearm zone. What was written above is no concealed handgun. Should I understand this to mean that open carry is ok in a financial institution.

Glock-R1980
01-01-2008, 21:57
Open carry is allowed in financial institutions. Make sure you check the doors of the bank carefully b/c most will read "No Concealed Carry Allowed". Some may read "No Firearms" and that is up to the bank. I haven't open carried in the bank in the 7+ years I've been carrying. You can almost hear the butt cheeks of the tellers grabbing the seats when someone walks in with a gun not in uniform. Going to the fear of the public still applies for O.C. just be aware of that.

scottyv
01-03-2008, 06:51
Open carry is allowed in financial institutions. Make sure you check the doors of the bank carefully b/c most will read "No Concealed Carry Allowed". Some may read "No Firearms" and that is up to the bank. I haven't open carried in the bank in the 7+ years I've been carrying. You can almost hear the butt cheeks of the tellers grabbing the seats when someone walks in with a gun not in uniform. Going to the fear of the public still applies for O.C. just be aware of that.


The only reason I asked is that I work in a bank. I think I would have an itchy trigger finger next to my panic button if I saw someone open carry in my branch. My office is right next to the door so I would see it before most others in my branch.

obxprnstar
01-14-2008, 13:51
.....I don't go to church anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.
Heathen

riddleofsteel
01-20-2008, 21:49
Heathen; a derivative of Goth. haiži "dwelling on the heath"

I always wanted to live up there

Heathen is as Heathen does my Moma always said.


I carry in church every Sunday. I also teach Sunday school armed.
My motto is that if the dody hits the air circulation device your sins will be forgiven but your ass will be blown away.

Scattergun00
01-28-2008, 15:10
if im not mistaken, SC law states you can only carry in a religious gathering place when the pastor or similar says you may.

r2d4
01-29-2008, 19:42
good information. what if the church is used as a school also? does this means its a school or church on sunday in the eyes of the law?

HighlanderSC
02-08-2008, 20:37
Scattergun00, you are correct ..... see the following from the SC law with reference link at end of this message (NOTE from HighlanderSC: 1-8 and 10 of list deleted):
SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.

(M) A permit issued pursuant to this section does not authorize a permit holder to carry a concealable weapon into a:

(9) church or other established religious sanctuary unless express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body;

A person who wilfully violates a provision of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

Reference:
http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t23c031.htm
SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.

Guitar4Him
03-26-2008, 07:24
I specifically asked this question in our CCW class a couple of weeks ago. The instructor said that he could find no prohibition in NC firearms law about CCW in church. Perhaps the sticky area is if the church maintains an on-going structured school. If a particular church does, I would be hesitant about CCW there. Otherwise, like our CCW instructor, I can't find anything in the NC firearms law that prohibits church carry.

Grayson
04-15-2008, 15:59
I ain't a church-goer, but this hits WAAAAY too close to home (literally) for me, and it got me to thinking about it:

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/NEWS01/80413028

I may need to go to Topix and correct a guy on there, for incorrectly IDing the Church as a 'self-defense free' zone.

Could be that no one was packing, but could be that there were CCWers there that didn't act since it was just a robbery - unlike the Church rampage that was stopped short by a female CCWer not too long ago in another state...