Is this possible?

[MakeMineaP99]

If some one were to get a class II manufacture permit, they could modify a Glock 17 for FA fire, legally. Is that correct? Does having this status also let them own post-ban FA weapons? Any light here would be of help and appreciated very much.

Thanks for your help,
Dan

[dengel]

If you have a class II - which IIRC is a manufacturers license you can manufacture firearms, and I believe FA stuff as well. It might sound a bit odd if you are applying out of your garage or for any reason other than you are a firearms manufacturer. But since you're not manufacturing a firearm, you're modifying an existing semi into full auto you'll need to have it registered with ATF and get a class III since it will be a Post 1986 machine gun. If you have a class III you can become a dealer in pre 86 and post 86 full auto firearms. However .. just so you know the new class 01 will cover fully auto weapons, but you'll need to pay $500 for the "tax" to be able to handle the full auto as opposed to a regular class 01 which handles all other handguns, shotguns, rifles, etc.

[MakeMineaP99]

What does manufacture mean according Uncle Sam?

[prebans]

Originally posted by dengel
If you have a class II - which IIRC is a manufacturers license you can manufacture firearms, and I believe FA stuff as well. It might sound a bit odd if you are applying out of your garage or for any reason other than you are a firearms manufacturer. But since you're not manufacturing a firearm, you're modifying an existing semi into full auto you'll need to have it registered with ATF and get a class III since it will be a Post 1986 machine gun. If you have a class III you can become a dealer in pre 86 and post 86 full auto firearms. However .. just so you know the new class 01 will cover fully auto weapons, but you'll need to pay $500 for the "tax" to be able to handle the full auto as opposed to a regular class 01 which handles all other handguns, shotguns, rifles, etc.

Somewhat true, but not fully. A Class II is a permit/license to build any Class III/NFA item but a destructive device. Thus, a Class II can make a short-barreled shotgun, a short-barreled rifle, a machinegun, an AOW, or a silencer.

In the eyes of the government, a Class II manufactures a new firearm when they make something into a NFA weapon, whether it's from scratch or from an existing non-NFA firearm. Thus, taking an AR-15 and sticking on a 11.5" upper is manufacturing a totally new rifle. Within 48 hours of manufacturing that new weapon, the Class II must register it by sending the appropriate paperwork to the BATF. On a more Glock-oriented parallel, installing a stock on a Glock is exactly the same thing. Note that a Class II does not pay any $200.00/$5.00 tax for doing this. In addition, a Class II may also deal in NFA weapons. No Class III is necessary if you've got a Class II. (FYI, a Class I is a normal FFL dealer.) An example of a Class II dealer is Lakeside Machine. You can check him out at http://www.lakesideguns.com.

On to the subject of machineguns... There are three main classes; fully transferrable, pre-86 dealer samples, and post-86 dealer samples. If you're NOT a Class II or Class III, you can only buy fully transferrable items. These are machineguns that were manufactured here in the US on or before May 19, 1986 or foreign machineguns that were imported and registered on or before November ?? of 1968. (Note that a foreign semiauto that was converted on US soil and properly registered on or before 05/19/86 is considered to be a US-made machinegun.)

Converting a Glock to full auto today or any time in the future [under current law] would be considered a post-86 dealer sample. Thus, the Class II who made the gun could own it as long as they kept their license going. They could also sell it to any government agency; usually a police department, the military, government security agencies, etc. In some cases, they could also export it from the country if the correct paperwork was filed in the US and in the receiving country. (I do not claim ANY good knowledge about exportation laws. In addition, there is an importer and exporter license. But, I don't know anything about how they operate.) The Class II could NEVER sell that post-86 full auto Glock to the general public, even if it was the first Glock that hit American soil-- the date it's registered with the BATF as a machinegun is the only day that is important.

Incidentally, there are 3-4 fully transferrable Glock 17's that were converted before the '86 ban. I saw one of them go on http://www.subguns.com for either $22,000.00 or $24,000.00 back in 1999. I've not seen heads or tails of the other three, and that one I saw hasn't gone up for sale since.

HTH,

Mike

[Team-G]

Good info. What about a C2 that makes or buys one of those drop-in selectors that replaces the slide cover plate on a Glock. It can be installed and taken out of any Glock in a minute. Does this require the gun to be registered or just the device?

[prebans]

Originally posted by Team-G
Good info. What about a C2 that makes or buys one of those drop-in selectors that replaces the slide cover plate on a Glock. It can be installed and taken out of any Glock in a minute. Does this require the gun to be registered or just the device?

If the registered part of the gun (in this case, the lower receiver/polymer frame is the registered part) is NOT altered, it isn't considered a full auto. The switch thingy is.

...at least, that's the last I heard about 1/2 a year ago..... It's always a possibility that the Glock itself needs to be registered.

<shrug>

Mike

[Roughneck-2zero]

Cool, is it hard to get a FFL and FFL-Class 2 manufacturer license? I'm sure if it was easy everyone would have one.
I've talked to dealers at the shows and they said that basically the Gov. wants them out of business.

[prebans]

Originally posted by Roughneck-2zero
Cool, is it hard to get a FFL and FFL-Class 2 manufacturer license? I'm sure if it was easy everyone would have one.
I've talked to dealers at the shows and they said that basically the Gov. wants them out of business.

It sure as hell hasn't gotten any easier. :(

First, get a type I FFL and start doing regular gunsmithing. After a year, go for a Class II. You'll have an interview, and they'll look into you, your background, grab fingerprints, take blood samples, obtain the rights to your left nut.....

It more depends on the area. I notice you're from Atlanta. Probably no way in hell.

Head out to a more rural area and you'll probably have a better time of it.

Mike

[Roughneck-2zero]

Thanks, It was just a thought.

[prebans]

Originally posted by Roughneck-2zero
Thanks, It was just a thought.

Sorry I couldn't sound more upbeat. GA is a decent state on gun rights; the only thing they don't allow are destructive devices that are incendiary in nature. Yet, I highly doubt that Atlanta would be interested in a C2 setting up shop, even a law-abiding and honest one.

I'd speak with GA C2 and C3 dealers to get the real scoop. They could tell you more about having to surender your Fourth Amendment rights, taxation issues, laws, nuts-and-bolts stuff, etc.

If you truly want to go through with this, I say go for it! We need more C2's and C3's in this country. But, know what's below the surface before jumping in the pool.

Mike