View Full Version : Governor Kaine - Gun Show Loop Hole
watsoncb
01-09-2008, 20:55
Could some one explain what the heck Governor Kaine is talking about in closing the gun show police check at gun shows?
I go to the Nations Gun Shows in Chantilly often. I have purchased rifles and handguns at the shows and each time, I wait for a VA State Police/FBI check to be performed - before I can own the firearm.
Where is the loop hole?
Olivers_AR
01-09-2008, 22:00
Could some one explain what the heck Governor Kaine is talking about in closing the gun show police check at gun shows?
I go to the Nations Gun Shows in Chantilly often. I have purchased rifles and handguns at the shows and each time, I wait for a VA State Police/FBI check to be performed - before I can own the firearm.
Where is the loop hole?
Have you seen the people at the Nations Gun Show walking around with a for sale sign or placcards? They are private citizens and not gun dealers (FFL), and you can purchase the gun from them without a background check being run. Assumption is that you are legally able to purchase the gun and that the gun itself can be legally sold.
The gun show "loophole" is a misnomer because private gun transactions are currently legal, at the gunshow or at your house with your neighbor, without a background check. Again assumptions that your not doing a "straw purchase" ie buying it or selling it to someone who cannot legally own or purchase a gun.
With this coming up a topic in VA politics, I'll bet that you'll see alot of ink on this subject.
--Olivers_AR
It's really the "Private Sale" loophole, but that doesn't sound sexy enough and doesn't demonize gun shows.
The silly thing about it is that even if sales at gun shows were outlawed, there wouldn't be anything against you walking around with a sign saying you had an XYZ gun for sale. Then walking out to your car in the parking lot or down the block to make the sale.
There is no "Gun Show Loophole". Dealers at gun shows have to follow federal and state laws and do proper background checks. If there actually are "Unlicensed Gun Dealers" at the gun show, meaning a person that is in the business of selling firearms without the proper license they are committing a federal felony and should be prosecuted.
a while back I saw some posts of a document that people who privately sell firearms at shows have the purchaser fill out i.e. there name address etc etc. anyone have one of those handy on their computer and like to post it on here for a reference?
watsoncb
01-10-2008, 17:43
Here are a couple of ATF forms that might work for you.
a while back I saw some posts of a document that people who privately sell firearms at shows have the purchaser fill out i.e. there name address etc etc. anyone have one of those handy on their computer and like to post it on here for a reference?
Found this one on line:
Bill of Sale
Transfer of Ownership
For $______ received, I, (seller’s name here), have sold to (buyer's name here)
One (1) ABC Model XYZ firearm description here, Serial # _____________
Any other accessories here
I represent that this ___________ is not stolen. I am the owner of the _______ listed above. If it can be shown now or in the future that this _______ was stolen prior to the date listed below, I will give the buyer a full refund for return of the _______ and all accessories listed above.
Sold as is.
No warranty is expressed or implied by the Seller.
Seller assumes no responsibility after transfer of ownership has taken place.
Seller assumes no responsibility of any/all aftermarket parts added to the ___________.
Seller assumes no responsibility of any/all original equipment parts on the ________.
Buyer assumes all responsibility when transfer of ownership has taken place.
Seller specifically disclaims any warranties of merchantability or of fitness for a particular purpose of this ________ and disclaims all responsibility for consequential and/or incidental damages or any other losses arising from the use of said _________.
Buyer agrees to the terms and conditions set forth and listed on this document, and acknowledges that he has received a true copy of this Bill of Sale/Transfer of Ownership and certifies that he is 21 years of age or older. Buyer acknowledges and understands that he will read the Owner’s Manual. Buyer agrees that it will be his responsibility when transfer of ownership has taken place to adjust, check, and follow all instructions as outlined in the Owner’s Manual. Buyer attests that he is able to legally buy and possess firearms.
Buyer: Name Here
Seller: Name Here
Date:_________________________
Buyer: _____________________________
Address:____________________________
Phone #: ____________________________
Seller: ______________________________
Address: ____________________________
Phone #: ____________________________
Hunterjbb
01-14-2008, 19:48
At the showplace they don't let folks stand outside and sell anymore. You have to be inside.. Of course that would not stop you from advertising inside and going out to your truck.
What's the solution, ban private sales? or require a background check by the seller on the purchaser? Love to see how that would be implemented?..
Another attempt to "fix" something and take advantage of a really unfortunate situation and play on peoples misunderstandings..
Can you see the state police, trying to figure out the staffing that would be required to do the additional background checks?
Anyone have a statistic on the number or private firearms sales by chance for a year in VA ? i'm sure this would be difficult to come by..
Jeff.
What's the solution, ban private sales?
Yes, that's exactly what they're aiming for. Apparently private citizens are not only unable to handle a firearm, they're unable to sell one properly as well. :steamed:
while we're on the subject of private sales...sold my friend a gun this past weekend. we filled out a bill of sale, but is there a number he can call or a way for him to get the gun registered to his name?
while we're on the subject of private sales...sold my friend a gun this past weekend. we filled out a bill of sale, but is there a number he can call or a way for him to get the gun registered to his name?
He could call the State Police non-emergency number and find out from them. But why? Is registration required in his home state?
If his home state is not VA then the sale was not legal (therefore, you probably shouldn't call the police :shocked:). If he is a VA resident, and was legal (not a felon, over 21, etc.) then all is well and its done. VA doesnt register our guns, thankfully.
I always keep a bill of sale signed by purchaser (usually my dad, good friend, brother in law...) just in case something happens later with that gun and it is traced to me.
Joe
edited to add - Kaine is a tool, he claimed not to be an anti but he is 100%. He has his eyes on national office and I hope his anti-gun bs will burn his ass. I am a freedom loving Viriginian and I hope the law doesnt get changed (what do gun shows have to do with Tech anyway???) but I will say though that I saw something that made me nervous at the gunshow last weekend in Richmond I saw a guy selling a WASR 10 for $450 with a sign on his table saying something to the effect of "private seller, no taxes etc.." Now, why in the world would anyone buy a WASR 10 for $450 when Dark Sun has them for $329 (don't quote me on the price) two tables away??? Oh, I know why.
No, it was def a legal sale. I don't screw around with stupid stuff. Thanks for the answers guys.
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