ABU's [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : ABU's


G19Tony
01-09-2008, 22:52
I've been retired since 99. I went out to Nellis today to meet a friend for lunch. Alot of guys were wearing those ABU's some people here were complaining about. I didn't think they looked that :pjmn: at all. Just be glad they didn't make you guys wear the blue verison I had seen on the interweb before. :shocked:

They looked more comfortable than my polyester green pickle suit. :supergrin:

crazypilot
01-09-2008, 23:21
I was very glad to see that they changed the color but since I work in maintenance, the light color gets dirty quickly. I just have to wear coveralls all the time.

ks farmboy
01-09-2008, 23:36
im on the flightline, and the boots that get issued get dirty easily. they are the worst thing about them. also, the shirt stains easily, so you will go through a lot of them.

leper65
02-15-2008, 20:35
At least you don't have to shine the boots or iron the uniform...

MrMurphy
02-16-2008, 05:08
Some morons have been seen with pressed ABUs. The first one I see with pressed ones is going to seriously jacked up, bad enough he has to wash it. The bastard.

I have "embraced the gayness" and have two pairs, primarily because i'm getting tired of shining and polishing to go five minutes later in full body armor and sit in a Humvee for 12 hours where nobody will see how uber high speed I look when I'm crawling around in the grass looking ready for an inspection.

najaboy
02-16-2008, 12:07
Some morons have been seen with pressed ABUs. The first one I see with pressed ones is going to seriously jacked up, bad enough he has to wash it. The bastard.

I have "embraced the gayness" and have two pairs, primarily because i'm getting tired of shining and polishing to go five minutes later in full body armor and sit in a Humvee for 12 hours where nobody will see how uber high speed I look when I'm crawling around in the grass looking ready for an inspection.

I'd jack them up, too. Pressing the ABUs is prohibited. They can iron a crease in their stripes, but that's about it.

swingline
02-16-2008, 14:33
I saw a Chief the other day with his starched and pressed. Jackass.

MrMurphy
02-16-2008, 15:27
First weartest for mine is Tuesday for an inprocessing brief. Guess I'll see how gay I look.

meeko
02-16-2008, 20:17
Some morons have been seen with pressed ABUs. The first one I see with pressed ones is going to seriously jacked up, bad enough he has to wash it. The bastard.

I have "embraced the gayness" and have two pairs, primarily because i'm getting tired of shining and polishing to go five minutes later in full body armor and sit in a Humvee for 12 hours where nobody will see how uber high speed I look when I'm crawling around in the grass looking ready for an inspection.

Thats the problem I have with the AF, Security Forces seem to be more guilty at times. An example if you ever watch the military channel there is a special on a recent sniper compitition. The AF Schmucks (Security troops) actually have pressed BDU's with creases in the stripes. even in a field FTX they have to be all GQ. That is about as stupid as the idea of running speed guns at forward operating bases. sometimes I think the AF trains so much they forget how the real world works! glad i am retired.

packinheavy
02-16-2008, 21:11
Thats the problem I have with the AF, Security Forces seem to be more guilty at times. An example if you ever watch the military channel there is a special on a recent sniper compitition. The AF Schmucks (Security troops) actually have pressed BDU's with creases in the stripes. even in a field FTX they have to be all GQ. That is about as stupid as the idea of running speed guns at forward operating bases. sometimes I think the AF trains so much they forget how the real world works! glad i am retired.


Don't blame the troops. Do you think we want to go to all that trouble for no reason? Blame the brass and senior NCOs.

It will only be a matter of time before they decide we have to start starching the ABUs and someone will design a boot to go with the uniform that can be polished. Kiwi will have to come up with an new color of polish for it.

meeko
02-16-2008, 22:11
Don't blame the troops. Do you think we want to go to all that trouble for no reason? Blame the brass and senior NCOs.

It will only be a matter of time before they decide we have to start starching the ABUs and someone will design a boot to go with the uniform that can be polished. Kiwi will have to come up with an new color of polish for it.

I blame the troops because it's the little fake shallow ones that have the mentality that "I have to look all crisp and GQ ones" that go to the trouble and keep doing some stupid things. They are the ones that somehow make it to a position to dictate using speedguns in forward areas etc. After 21 years I have seen just about all types.

meangenedrlove
02-17-2008, 00:10
I blame the troops because it's the little fake shallow ones that have the mentality that "I have to look all crisp and GQ ones" that go to the trouble and keep doing some stupid things. They are the ones that somehow make it to a position to dictate using speedguns in forward areas etc. After 21 years I have seen just about all types.

**Warning** *Stepping onto soap-box*

I blame both. When I first got in I would spend at least a half hour a night on my boots. I ran out of steam after about 2 months at my first assignment. now I just throw a quick coat of the liquid Kiwi every month or so. It's not worth the effort as a F-16 crew chief to keep boots highly polished. I have always thought it was idiotic to press/starch the BDUs as they are a "Battle Dress Uniform" it's a utility uniform, it's meant to get dirty and take abuse. It just drives me nuts when a SNCO makes a snide comment about my boots not having a shine on them even when they are still black or something about wrinkles after I've been working on aircraft for 10 hours. I will never press/starch my ABUs when I get them...I long ago stopped pressing my BDUs. The problem arises when Lil' Miss GQ goes and starches his uniform, then his dumb-ass flight chief or other SNCO see it and thinks it's cool looking, then they get it in their mind that that is the standard, then they expect us all to do it too. It's a vicious circle that has got to be stopped. SNCOs need to do their job and ensure the troops are using/wearing their uniforms properly rather than encouraging the GQ behaviors. Part of the problem lies in the fact that most people in the USAF never had a real job for any length of time before they enlisted/got a commission.

Way too much attention is given to appearances in the USAF. I even had a SNCO tell me if he had "Troop A" (with several years experience and expertise) and "Troop B" (knows absolutely nothing, but always has a sharp looking uniform) interviewing for a QA position he would give the job to "Troop B" because his uniform is always looking sharp, regardless of the fact "Troop A" has more knowledge, experience, and skill than "Troop B". I told him he was stupid and that's not how it works in the real world. He didn't like my assessment, but I didn't like the fact that he insinuated I was worthless to him because I don't press my uniforms or polish my boots.

I don't know how many times I've had to perfectly line up fire extinguishers on the flight line. Or have some dumb-ass SNCO insist that we go wax/buff a tow vehicle or deicing truck (which both have FLAT paint jobs) even after several of us tell him it won't work and you don't wax/buff flat paint. If they'd just let us do our jobs and stop worrying about appearances, we probably wouldn't be undermanned.

I can go on and on about this subject, but I'll spare you all.

*Stepping off soap-box*

MrMurphy
02-17-2008, 00:53
I don't want to even count how many hours i've wasted starching and ironing BDUs, when the job will last about 90 second past guard mount when I go get in the Humvee for 12 hours and nobody gives a damn how high speed I look. People working the gate who look like utter scumbags and guys in superpressed and shined uniforms get the same treatment (treated like crap) by the rest of the AF. Yes, for certain occasions (honor guard for a general's promotion etc) I can see having a uniform that looks a bit nicer than usual, but 99% of the time nobody gives a damn.

I got more "you look good" comments wearing my IBA with MOLLE pouches attached, ESS glasses and shooting gloves working a gate (I was covering for a guy taking a bathroom break, was mobile), because 1. I looked ready to handle anything and 2.apparently it reminded some of the schmucks at the gate we really do something other than write tickets. I was somewhat wrinkled and not shined, but nobody cared.

Having been writing tickets in the sandbox for six months, I think it's BS too (as did everyone else) but someone thought it was a bright idea, and honestly with as many coalition troops as we had there, it WAS a problem (Aussies think they're driving the Gran Prix, doing 60mph on a road rated for 30, etc), Brits being notorious offenders in taking out slide arm bars at gates (apparently, brakes are a new concept to them) and nearly running over people at marked crosswalks. Safety issue. Being far enough back, they have to come up with some BS to keep busy, which annoys the rest of us who have to do it.

It's just as bad, if not worse in Balad/Anaconda, Al Dhafra, Ali/Talil and other places (having talked to people who were there this week).

Herknav
02-17-2008, 05:04
I'm holding off on getting my ABU's until I find out if Obama wins the election. Most people don't realise that his senior military advisor is Gen (Ret) Merrill A. McPeak. If McPeak gets the SecDef or SecAF positions, we'll probably all get new uniforms anyway. Maybe this time the AF won't say, "97% of people don't go outside the wire anyway, so who cares?"

meangenedrlove--Good post. Don't get me started on the deployed shirt(s) who came up with the rule about how tall your socks can be in PT gear.

Murph--Stay safe.

meeko
02-17-2008, 07:13
meangenedrlove, We are on the same page as far as the uniform and appearance issues. And yes the AF worries way to much about looks. All I'm saying it appeared to me that the SNCO's got their "drive" because they were the candy ass's that did those things as junior enlisted troops.

Herknav, Thats the first time I have heard Mcweak oh I mean McPeak's name mentiond. i'm sure I am not the only one that was less than impressed with him and his worries on the new uniform back in the early 1990's. I feel for the AF or DOD if he gets either.

Herknav
02-17-2008, 07:46
Meeko--I'm only speculating, but I just don't see it as a big stretch for Obama to nominate his "senior military advisor" to either position if he gets elected.

meeko
02-17-2008, 07:57
Meeko--I'm only speculating, but I just don't see it as a big stretch for Obama to nominate his "senior military advisor" to either position if he gets elected.

This whole presidential issue is like one big "totsie roll totsie pop question" of the century. Who is going to get the nod, Who are they likly to pick. After getting the nod will they sway back one way or the other!!! Who knows but you are probably not far off. I am not running anything but I personaly would hate to see McPeak given any "official" capacity or job just by being under him years ago (I don't know who GEN Dugan made mad but he should have kept his spot) however being retired it won't effect me I hope.

sigpro357
02-18-2008, 01:39
I always tried my very best to have a higly pressed uniform and a shiny pair of boots. I also did my job to the best of my ability and was one of the better technicians at my duty station. I worked in an environment where I could do that and not get messed up. I went to Bolling Air Force Base a couple of weeks ago on a job, and there were two young Airman working the gate. Both with sharp berets, starched uniforms and shiny boots. One with a 3 point sling an a M-4 with a Aimpoint. They both looked sharp and presented a professional image. It's pride in your unit and pride in the Air Force. It doesn't mean your the best but it shows you care. In the field starch is a no no. But in garrison it's fine. I think the new boots that don't have to be shined should only be for deployment. In garrison it should be business as usual. IE starch, kiwi, and tight haircuts.

meangenedrlove
02-18-2008, 02:05
They both looked sharp and presented a professional image.

That statement is one of the things about the USAF I have a huge problem with. We're not doctors, lawyers, or accountants...those are professionals. We're warriors. We get down and dirty to get the job done. Sadly I have seen far too many people worried about what their uniform looks like to get the job done. Our country is counting on us to do our jobs without hesitation...we can't afford to have these sissies that are more worried about the shine on their boots or the creases in their uniforms "presenting a professional image" instead of putting bombs on target.

And that is what it all boils down to.

MrMurphy
02-18-2008, 04:25
I have to agree. We have cops more worried about getting their uniform screwed up than doing the tactically smart thing and going prone or kneeling, during a real world alert where they are sweeping a building for a possible hostile, and do the "keep my uniform nice squat". I'm sorry, every single day I go to work that does not involve a briefing or a class, it's the real thing. I should not have to worry about being *****ed out because I took a dive in the grass and scuffed up my boot chasing someone (and yes, that has happened) and being told "bring your polishing kit to work" :rofl: Yeah, sure...... or keeping my crease perfect. I am not a office commando, I wear body armor and a rifle and actively patrol every day. BDUs "were" supposed to be a utility uniform that took little care and could be worn and wiped out without worrying too much about them. As much as I dislike the Approved for Boardroom Use uniform, the wash and wear thing and no-shine boots (which idea has been around since the 1930s, we went back to shiny boots in the 50s) make far more sense for an operational uniform for everyday work.

You want people to look supersharp and "professional" have the office commandos wear blues to work. The mass rebellion would have you killed, but you'd have your way.

Herknav
02-18-2008, 05:20
You want people to look supersharp and "professional" have the office commandos wear blues to work.

Amen, brother.

405dave
02-29-2008, 09:36
I came in the AF in '86 when the green's were still issued. I was around when the BDU's were first issued and guess what we were told? These things are great, no more ironing or starch! That lasted about a year then you became mr. dirtbag if you did not press and starch. History will ALWAYS repeat itself. I did my 20 and retired Jan. 1 '07 and can proudly say "I never wore that Faggy PT uniform!" LOL

MrMurphy
02-29-2008, 09:39
We have a captain (former SSgt) who is on his third uniform change. Ditto my current squadron commander (Lt Col, former MSgt) who came in with greens, went through BDUs, chocolate-chip "Desert BDUs", DCUs, and now ABUs. And they're still in (Squadron commander's got another year or so left in service before he hits the 35 year mark).

LilCop2002
03-06-2008, 15:07
You guys are all pretty spot on with your assessments. I am Security Forces at a small ANG Base. You'd be amazed at what kind of craziness goes on here. I'm one of the few that DID the spit polish routine daily (have gone to the sage green boots) and I have my uniforms dry cleaned. However, our mission doesn't really require that we do all the usual ABD type of stuff. The AGRs know what we need to do and get it done, but the traditional side troops are the ones that usually do all that stuff. However, when Im at work, I'm still 100% sound in my officer safety and tactics. If I need to drop, I'm hitting the dirt and getting lower than the jackass next to me. :-)

When I do have to do something in the field, I've got range boots and range uniforms. As a CATM instructor, you'll never see me in a dirty/wrinkled uniform, but after class is over and we're going on the line, you will see me in some of the most busted ass boots ever.

As it stands, I don't UNDERSTAND the mentality that is bred into the newer troops by the SNCOs of the units. That's what makes this careerfield such a pain in the ass. Hate, jealousy, and the covering of ones own ass has replaced loyalty, integrity, and knowledgeable people. Once my enlistment is up, I might just terminate my AGR status and crosstrain...

Mr Murph, It sounds like you're in Al Udeid, Qatar.

Sam White
03-06-2008, 18:39
So far, the only people I see wearing ABU's on our ANG base are people deploying or Chiefs out from the state Guard headquarters. They don't seem that bad, and most on my base don't get carried away with the starching/polishing routine anyway.

I'll have an opinion when we get ABU's this fall. I'll still have my DCU's when they come.

I'm not SF but still have days at my job where you can have a completely jacked up uniform within 10 minutes after reporting in the morning. Not wanting to scuff your boots or get dirty can still make you ineffective at my job. If I see a guy in a jacked up uniform I know he's been working.

My beef is with the PT gear. My PT shirts started to come apart after running a few miles, and the shorts are able to cause discomfort while still appearing enormous. Whoever sold the Air Force my PT shirts definitely got the best of big blue.

MrMurphy
03-06-2008, 22:40
Well, just spent six months wearing PT gear every day. The shirts actually hold up well. The jacket's not bad, the wind pants, eh, i can live with. Whoever designed the shorts should be castrated.

Best way to be comfortable in them is to cut the liner out, and wear a pair of bike shorts underneath.

meeko
03-07-2008, 19:05
Whoever designed the shorts should be castrated.

Probably one of the many Ken doll GQ types. Look under any CC's desk and you will find them!

Morris
03-08-2008, 07:33
Hey! Pickle suits weren't all that bad unless you slid across one of those crappy cloth K car seats and electroucted yourself touching the metal car parts.

meeko
03-08-2008, 16:59
Hey! Pickle suits weren't all that bad unless you slid across one of those crappy cloth K car seats and electroucted yourself touching the metal car parts.

I loved those k cars along with those PLY Grand fury's we had!!! Not really but what do you do when your in a "pickle" LOL

G19Tony
03-08-2008, 17:04
I loved those k cars along with those PLY Grand fury's we had!!! Not really but what do you do when your in a "pickle" LOL

The only AF vehicles I drove in was a flight line bread truck or a jammer.

MrMurphy
03-08-2008, 17:21
Well, after 2 days of wear..

They're extremely comfortable. Since I was in the classroom and not armed up, the ankle pockets held pens and a Surefire well. I have no use for the forearm pen pocket. And I still think the pattern looks gay, but.... i can live with it.

It does blend in with ACU gear very well, i have an ACU RAID pack that looks like they were made for each other. And downrange I have seen guys in ACU IBAs with ABUs on that you could barely tell apart.

xxKylexx
03-09-2008, 01:46
I just got out of the AF (AFSOC Spectre Gunships) and forunately I never had to buy the ABU's, but my wife is still enlisted. She's contemplating on buying a new set. I must say that I am astonished at the cost of those suckers! I hope she gets a huge clothing allowence to cover it!

Now, we bought a cheap sewing machine back when we were A1C's and sewed on every patch ourselves to save on $$, except for those damn maintenance badges; what a *****. Still though, the uniform itself plus patches and hat has to come out to $100 per uniform, plus $100 for boots! WTF was wrong with BDU's??

MrMurphy
03-09-2008, 07:14
We look "too much like the Army" despite the fact that as of this month the BDU is no longer authorized in the Army. Or, as some have joked "someone needed an OPR bullet".

I've got 4 pairs of desert boots and I am NOT buying the babycrap green boots.

Sam White
03-09-2008, 14:46
"I've got 4 pairs of desert boots and I am NOT buying the babycrap green boots."

I'm going to put off wearing the green boots as long as I can.

Morris
03-09-2008, 17:08
Feel for those folks who have to wear both uniforms based upon their jobs (combat WX, TACP, STS, etc.), Army and AF sets.

Sheesh. I'm all for comfort and improving but I'm still at a loss why everyone needs a different pattern than the other service.

Codename46
03-12-2008, 16:52
Still wearing BDUs here, but then again AFROTC detachments are at the bottom of the food chain.

Whats with the vehement hate of people who press their ABUs? Am I missing something here?

MrMurphy
03-12-2008, 23:55
Yeah...... they're WASH AND WEAR.

Stick it in the washer. Stick it in the dryer. Put it on. That's it. They already look fine as is.

Some idiot pressing his will get the whole dress-uniform-standards-for-a-"battle" uniform thing going again and we end up with the starched-and-ironed BDU stupidity once more.

Sam White
03-13-2008, 17:59
Yup. The BDU wasn't originally supposed to be starched and creased, but some people started doing it anyway. So far I haven't seen anyone try to iron/starch/crease their ABU's (ACU's either, the Army has the same problem). Most do NOT want to starch and crease a uniform that was never intended to be treated that way. MrMurphy, aren't there also instructions on how to wash the ABUs?

MrMurphy
03-14-2008, 01:58
Wash it using a detergent with no optical brighteners (it'll fade faster).
Absolutely no starch, this applies to ACUs as well. You can starch it. Once. After that..... the uniform material will start degrading rapidly. That's what I've been told.

I just washed one of my two sets the first time, have to pull it out of the dryer actually. Should be ready to go as is.

Lazlo
03-14-2008, 02:33
I think disgust is not a strong enough word to describe how I feel about the ABUs. I hate the pattern and colors, and don't even get me started on the boots. I think the only uniform change I disliked this much was when they had us putting the aircrew style name tags on the BDUs (remember that one?). I'll be retiring about 10 months prior to the mandatory wear date and I plan on stocking up on BDUs while I can so I can hopefully resist assimilation until then. They've been hard to get a hold of on my ANG base anyway (probably because we are AETC, just above AFROTC on the food chain :winkie:) unless you're going on an AEF rotation or similar deployment, and mostly only the Chiefs and First Sergeants have had them issued to them. Everybody else has been falling over themselves to be the first ones to get what little else is available. They seem to think it's some kind of status thing since they're such a rarity. :upeyes:

Morris
03-14-2008, 04:49
I'm still at a loss as to why you need a camo pattern if you are spending your time tied to a desk or turning wrenches on birds on a flat piece of gray concrete.

But then again, I never did think the right way, hence my exit stage right after 10 years.

MrMurphy
03-14-2008, 04:50
Well, i dislike the pattern, though having seen them in the field, they do better at night than DCUs (not as bright) though, having been on a night shoot last night, not quite as well as BDUs, though BDUs tend to do the big black blob look from farther away.

I don't have to wear the boots, since I have desert boots. :)
I dislike the weight, but I actually like the ankle pockets. Wish we had shoulder pockets, since I actually DO wear body armor every single day just about.

Lazlo
03-14-2008, 10:16
I dislike the weight, but I actually like the ankle pockets.

I think that is probably the number one complaint I hear from people who are actually wearing them now. Be interesting to see what they say come July and August. Another thing I hear from a few people is that the material the t-shirts are made of that come with ABU seem to retain traces of body odor, sometimes even after thorough washing. The folks I've heard say this aren't pigs either (I could actually describe on of them as a GQ type, very fastidious even to the point of possibly calling him a metro). Anyone here finding this to be true?

Highspeedlane
03-14-2008, 14:34
"I've got 4 pairs of desert boots and I am NOT buying the babycrap green boots."

I'm going to put off wearing the green boots as long as I can.

I'm going to be in Keesler for a tech school this spring/summer so I'm going to look at a set of the ABU's. I picked up a set of desert boots from supply today.

Right now we would have to pay for the green boots out of pocket if we wanted a set...brown will work fine for now.

MrMurphy
03-14-2008, 16:17
I wasn't issued ABUs so I didn't get the "issued" Underarmor wannabe shirt, but I know some guys who were downrange with me who did get them, and yeah, they tend to stink up a little from sweat.

Most of the guys who had ABUs issued also got DCUs issued, and when we arrived it was 130F outside, they wore DCUs. Later in the deployment when the temps dropped to Holy Crap We're Freezing, they wore the ABUs. Some didn't get both and *****ed about the heat till it got cold. Thickness-wise, it's like wearing winterweights all the time.

xxKylexx
03-15-2008, 23:08
I heard that when the ABU is mandatory, then the desert boots will no longer be authorized to wear. What's the truth in this?

MrMurphy
03-16-2008, 05:47
You've got another 2-3 years (maybe) before the BSG (Baby &)(*! Green) boots are supposed to be the only boot. But they've been having problems with them fading, leaking color onto people's feet, and plain leaking, the BSG boots may go away and we end up with desert? This would make sense, which is why the AF probably won't do it.

DefenderC5
04-08-2008, 07:30
The ABU is perfectly suited for the office environment, and it's certainly nice to be only wash and wear. I do like it while in garrison.

However the ABU is complete garbage in the deployed environment IMO:

1) Heavier/thicker than a winterweight BDU
2) Traps heat, does not breath! With full kit, the ABU has me sweating before I have even got to my vehicle. (It has only hit triple digit temps twice here so far, can't wait for 130+ degrees)
3) Leg pockets pretty much useless for me (I keep a casualty card in one, that's about it)
4) Pen pocket on the arm is on the wrong side (needs to be outside like the ACU). It always catches on my IBA when I put it on/take it off and breaks my pens in half. I have to remove my pens before donning/doffing on my IBA.
5) Silly green boots (desert boots are still authorized until 2011)
6) Interior "map pockets" are useless. Can't get to them with kit on (or off for that matter), and they add about 4+ layers of extra fabric on the entire front of the blouse.
7) Not fire retardant!
8) Fashion collar? Why?
9) Functionless tiger stripe pattern

I still wear my tanker ACU for missions. MUCH lighter, functional pockets, and fire resistant. With the ABU on in full kit, I sweat all over. With the ACU, I am only warm/damp just under my IBA.

Essentially, the ABU is just a BDU with a different pattern, two leg pockets and a pen pocket. The resistance the AF has from being "too much like the army" has really restricted us from taking some of the good points the ACU had and creating an acceptable uniform.

This attitude hurts the airmen who don't fight from behind a desk via email.


Oh, and first post :whistling:

MrMurphy
04-08-2008, 09:48
Yeah we had some who had ABUs with us. I use the leg pockets for pens and a Surefire sometime. The new ABUs have no map pocket too.

meeko
04-08-2008, 10:52
The ABU is perfectly suited for the office environment, and it's certainly nice to be only wash and wear. I do like it while in garrison.
The resistance the AF has from being "too much like the army" has really restricted us from taking some of the good points the ACU had and creating an acceptable uniform.

This attitude hurts the airmen who don't fight from behind a desk via email.


Oh, and first post :whistling:

+1000

One of the things I can't stand is the AF troops (primarly Security Forces troops) that want to play pretend like they are Army infantry but don't want to look like the Army. They want their own "special" uniform/camo pattern. It would just make sense to utilize the Army uniform after all the Army actually seemed to listen to the troops input on their uniform.

DefenderC5
04-08-2008, 23:26
+1000

One of the things I can't stand is the AF troops (primarly Security Forces troops) that want to play pretend like they are Army infantry but don't want to look like the Army. They want their own "special" uniform/camo pattern. It would just make sense to utilize the Army uniform after all the Army actually seemed to listen to the troops input on their uniform.

On the contrary, most of the SP I know and work with don't like the ABU either. They are still wearing the BDU as long as possible. I can see the senior leadership wanting to "play Army" but not "look Army". But the younger guys don't really care.

What erks me is so much money is spent on development of ABU, but it took another year or more to finally get a matching kevlar cover. Our gear/equipment still doesnt match, it is still desert camo. If they wanted us to look different they sure did succeed! :rofl:

I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.

meeko
04-09-2008, 07:28
I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.


Like I have always said "The USAF, 60 years untouched by tradition!"

Morris
04-09-2008, 13:37
I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.

I'd chalk that up to the little pecker syndrome, even though th ADAF controls the big ones. However, a special relationship exists between those groups in the AF that are constantly aligned with the Army, notably TACP, Combat WX and STS (when assigned to a unit). Very symbotic there as each needs the other to complete the mission.

Someone explain to me why OD green BDUs won't work as well for all areas? Not enough gucchi-flage?

MrMurphy
04-10-2008, 15:43
I was going to avoid the ABU as long as possible but got promoted, and all my BDUs were either fast approaching or already at "Snow Camo" stage, and had to be replaced, so I embraced the gayness and went ABU.

The wash and wear is nice, but I don't consider it in any way a real combat uniform. Oddly, at night, it does blend better faster than the DCU, it's a little darker and digital, but not quite as well as the BDU against regular grass at least.

Live With Honor
04-16-2008, 20:30
I see a lot of blaming Security Forces for starching uniforms, polishing boots, etc., but understand it's not our fault. We fully understand why it's ridiculous to starch uniforms and polish boots before a field exercise, but more often than not, we are being instructed by higher-ups to do so.

A perfect example of this was a recent field exercise I was on, where the NCOIC insisted that the black knee and elbow pads we were wearing were getting "worn" looking (you read correctly). So, he promptly instructed all of us to polish the plastic portion of the pads with boot polish. So, there we are, in the middle of the field, faces painted, geared up, and polishing our knee pads with boot polish.

Dont' get me wrong, I'm all for looking sharp during normal duties, and setting the standard for others to follow, but before anyone blames the troops for starching or pressing their ABU's, remember that the troops were probably told to do so by someone a lot higher than them.

Sam White
04-16-2008, 20:52
I'm not active duty like some others in the thread but I still see some of this at my base. The First Sergeant (usually) will tell the squadron we need to have sharper creases or shinier boots, etc. Sometimes we get emails sent base-wide solemnly reminding us that we need to look square away:upeyes: I don't think I've ever heard someone below MSgT ever mention the issue in my squadron.

MrMurphy
04-17-2008, 01:56
I would have introduced Mr.Kneepad to electrical tape.

I've heard some dumb ones, but that's up near the top of the list.

Morris
04-21-2008, 00:22
A perfect example of this was a recent field exercise I was on, where the NCOIC insisted that the black knee and elbow pads we were wearing were getting "worn" looking (you read correctly). So, he promptly instructed all of us to polish the plastic portion of the pads with boot polish. So, there we are, in the middle of the field, faces painted, geared up, and polishing our knee pads with boot polish.


That would be a clue that the NCOIC dillweed never spent anytime in any real event. If he had spent a rotation at NTC or Polk for exercises, they would have laughed their butts off at him, never mind real FOBs or in-theater bases.

But I still remember a CMSgt idiot who would give you gigs if the crease on your pickle suit was off or your flightline boots weren't daily polished. I remember my former Vietnam vet line boss telling him to get bent one day when the gigs finally were enough.

najaboy
04-24-2008, 17:31
I was going to avoid the ABU as long as possible but got promoted, and all my BDUs were either fast approaching or already at "Snow Camo" stage, and had to be replaced, so I embraced the gayness and went ABU.

The wash and wear is nice, but I don't consider it in any way a real combat uniform. Oddly, at night, it does blend better faster than the DCU, it's a little darker and digital, but not quite as well as the BDU against regular grass at least.

Actually, I just wanted to correct something... the ABU pattern is not digital. The Air Force was offered several actual digital patterns, but turned them down. Instead, they took tiger stripes and added some ragged edges to them.

DefenderC5
04-28-2008, 08:30
Actually, I just wanted to correct something... the ABU pattern is not digital. The Air Force was offered several actual digital patterns, but turned them down. Instead, they took tiger stripes and added some ragged edges to them.

Looking at them right now. Those "ragged edges" are what most others would call a "pixelated" or "digitized" pattern. It's a digital tiger stripe, different names for the same thing. Looking at the guy next to me, they look just as "ragged" as the ACU, which is digitized.

Regardless, my ACU IBA covers most of it up anyway. The office commandos apparently didn't factor in the need for an ABU body armor. :upeyes:

najaboy
04-29-2008, 15:14
Looking at them right now. Those "ragged edges" are what most others would call a "pixelated" or "digitized" pattern. It's a digital tiger stripe, different names for the same thing. Looking at the guy next to me, they look just as "ragged" as the ACU, which is digitized.

Regardless, my ACU IBA covers most of it up anyway. The office commandos apparently didn't factor in the need for an ABU body armor. :upeyes:

Far from an issue of semantics. The AF was presented with several digital prototypes, but rejected them all. The design that was opted for is not a pixelated pattern by any means.

It's interesting to note that the designers of the ABU issued an open apology to Airmen on their website, along with a brief synopsis (including photos) of the digitized patterns that they offered the AF.

MrMurphy
04-29-2008, 16:21
The ABU designers said "we'll use Army gear" i.e ACU pattern body armor, helmet covers, and tactical gear, which makes me wonder why they bothered going with a different pattern uniform if 75% of your body is covered in ACU pattern (which, admittedly, mixes very well with ABU in the people I've seen wearing both).

spectre381
05-14-2008, 19:30
That statement is one of the things about the USAF I have a huge problem with. We're not doctors, lawyers, or accountants...those are professionals. We're warriors. We get down and dirty to get the job done.

Have you ever heard the term "Profession of Arms"? You ARE a professional... every bit as much as the doctors, lawyers, or accountants. And in my humble opinion, even more so. Not everyone can or will do the various jobs of the military professional. You, and everyone serving, is a "professional" in your particular craft and in the profession of arms - or in layman's terms - the military service and all the traditions that go hand in hand with that. Getting the job done as you say, whether it involves "getting down and dirty" or standing at a gate in a starched uniform, requires professionalism to the utmost degree. Not having 5 or 6 or 10 yrs of college under your belt doesn't make you any less professional than someone with an "advanced" educational degree.

Where did I form my opinion on this subject? I retired in mid-2006 after 22 1/2 yrs of proud service in the USAF. I spent the first handful behind a desk, 7 yrs as a Sensor Operator onboard AC-130H Spectre gunships, and almost 4 yrs as a squadron and then group First Sgt before I retired. So I've worn the starched and pressed uniform with the shiny boots. I've worn the flt suit that hasn't been washed in a week because we were too busy flying combat missions over Somalia or Bosnia or Afghanistan or Iraq and were more worried about staying alive than looking pretty. I've celebrated reenlistments with friends in uniform, and paid respects at some of those same friends funerals in my uniform. And I will tell you that with very few exceptions over those 22 1/2 yrs, when I pulled that uniform on (regardless of the variation) I was proud to wear it and proud of what it stood for. I was a PROFESSIONAL member of the US Air Force.

agentl074
05-14-2008, 21:20
Well I was one of those SF Journeymen who had to starch the uniform and shine the boots until they could be mirrors .... Although, I like the sound of a maintenance free service uniform - you cant beat the woodland BDU! I hated the idea of a blue POS to replace the tried and true colors. Shine on the boots should ALWAYS be a sense of pride on a troops uniform! I remember when my BDU's were'nt starched the best razor shape (because I didnt know to let them dry at least a day lol) ... But the funny thing is that I learned so much more when I got out and let the four years of information soak in.

Troops have something to show for their pride - if the ABU's cannot deminstrate this, let the boots do the talking.

MrMurphy
05-15-2008, 08:51
I have to admit, not having to worry about shining the hell out of your boots only five minutes into the shift to completely wipe them out simply by getting in your Humvee is nice.

Since I spend the majority of my day unseen by anyone, in a Humvee, this is nice.

agentl074
05-16-2008, 08:40
Clorafram shoes were nice for the blues in that regard hehe

Morris
05-16-2008, 14:30
Okay, I remember as a young airman choking on the price of a BDU set at Clothing Sales. What does a set of ABUs run now?

MrMurphy
05-16-2008, 18:52
With name tags stripes and patches (granted, the Infamous Walking Billboard look is out, so there's fewer patches), about $100.

DefenderC5
05-23-2008, 04:32
With name tags stripes and patches (granted, the Infamous Walking Billboard look is out, so there's fewer patches), about $100.

Yup, still too much IMO. They only thing that went away was command/unit patches, and those were usually issued by the unit.

Apparently they are phasing out the green boots and sticking with the tan (finally a good move) and also making it lighter weight (oh thank God)... can anyone confirm this?

MrMurphy
05-23-2008, 10:34
The lighter weight top was confirmed, more or less in AF Times. As well as a upcoming "combat shirt" basically an ABU pattern clone of the Army's.

No word on the green boot being phased out, this would make far too much sense for the USAF.

najaboy
05-31-2008, 08:34
Yup, still too much IMO. They only thing that went away was command/unit patches, and those were usually issued by the unit.

Apparently they are phasing out the green boots and sticking with the tan (finally a good move) and also making it lighter weight (oh thank God)... can anyone confirm this?
The green boots are not being phased out. Initial issue of ABU boots was suspended in order to allow the current supply of tan boots to be depleted.

maclean
06-13-2008, 16:27
They are $100 when you can effin find a matched pair!

Good luck with that!

Notrega
06-13-2008, 17:53
Someone has to say it...

:needspics:

:rofl:

DrMaxit
06-27-2008, 18:59
I was the FIRST flight in the AF to be ISSUED the new ABUs in Basic. Mine don't match or fit for ****, they were low on inventory so I "got what i got." I think that some look good if you take the time to get the right sizes, but mine literally look like ****. Its in the clothing regs that its UNAUTHORIZED to starch, press, alter or basically do anything, other than wash and wear. Yeah its easier, but needless to say, I've bought a set of BDUs myself, just so I don't look like a jackass.

--Chuck

MrMurphy
06-28-2008, 02:48
Well, you could have just gotten a pair color matched. If you need the babycrap green boots that are actually COMFORTABLE (coming from a cop, i know about comfortable boots) Converse's sidezip desert model are now available in "sage". $80 or so from www.lapolicegear.com and yes they ship to APO.

DrMaxit
06-28-2008, 09:44
Well, you could have just gotten a pair color matched. If you need the babycrap green boots that are actually COMFORTABLE (coming from a cop, i know about comfortable boots) Converse's sidezip desert model are now available in "sage". $80 or so from www.lapolicegear.com and yes they ship to APO.

Thanks for the boots, I've got a nice set of comfortable steeled toe tans I like. Not much on the green ones.

So far as color matched? I got them in basic, they didn't give me time to even get the right sizes (and were low in inventory so probably didn't have my size anyways) so I got what I got. I don't think maybe two people out of our two flights were color matched. Most of the pants were gray and the tops were green, hats blueish. Ha. Oh well.

--Chuck

MrMurphy
06-28-2008, 10:09
It's nothing new.

First issue, ever, of a brand new uniform that was already having color-match problems (now mostly fixed), that was going to happen regardless.

LABMAN
06-29-2008, 16:04
The polished and pressed crap is not new...I was in Nam in '68 at Tan Son Nhut AB, where 7th AF was and we had fricking flowerbeds till Tet came and then they decided sand bags were good too. But, they still tried to give everyone a hard time & that was in a WAR ZONE!

MrMurphy
06-29-2008, 19:23
As one guy currently deployed in the war, 4-time Iraq and 1-time Afghanistan vet (Army, Special Forces) said "I deployed to my war zone and found a garrison had broken out".


Same BS, different century.......

Sam White
06-30-2008, 05:03
I've heard that said too.

Where I am, lots of guys are coming to me to get DCU's because the ABU's are too hot.

MrMurphy
06-30-2008, 10:46
I had DCUs, we had guys with both because they didn't know where they would end up, and wore DCUs in the heat and when it got cold, ABUs.