Anyone tried 147 gr. in your .357 Sig?

[TLHelmer]

I was wondering if this would be a good combo. One of the problems with the 147 in the 9mm was that it was not fast enough to expand reliably. It seems that this would not be a problem in the .357 Sig. I have been told that the 147 gr. bullets have better sectional density than other grain loads.

Are there any quality manufacturers with this combo?

[student_gunner]

I have tried the Hornady 147 XTP. It seemed to be a little milder than the 125 CORBON and Golddots.

from online info: it appears this round should be going approx 1200fps (3.86" barrel)

http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/357/357SIG-advoc.htm#a3

SG

[student_gunner]

In comparison the 9mm Hornady XTP goes 918fps according to http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

At 1200fps the penetration in gelatin is approx 13.7"

At 918fps the penetration " " is 22.10"

I would conclude that it opens up better and hits harder at 1200.

SG

[Peter M. Eick]

My best accuracy out of my 229sport is from a reload of 147 grn Hornady XTP's and AA9. Great accuracy and very mild recoil.

[TLHelmer]

Thanks for your responses! I wish some of the major ammo manufacturers would try some loads like this.

[SIX14LIFE]

s&b HAS 140'S fmj'S

[gdnctr]

Originally posted by student_gunner
In comparison the 9mm Hornady XTP goes 918fps according to http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

At 1200fps the penetration in gelatin is approx 13.7"

At 918fps the penetration " " is 22.10"

I would conclude that it opens up better and hits harder at 1200.

SG



Okay, me stupid. But why is 1200fps (13.7") better than 918fps (22.10")? Isn't deeper better? Isn't 2x penetration better? Why do they do that in gelatin? I'm trying to understand all this stuff. pardon my ignorance; I'm sure you guys/gals have explained this stuff a 1,000x before. If there's a URL which saves you typing, I'll go willingly.

[caz223]

More velocity= less penetration, more damage.
less velocity= more penetration, less damage.
In the same weight, and diameter JHP bullet.
More bullet weight= more penetration. (Less velocity)
It makes finding the perfect load for the application somewhat important.
In humans, anywhere between 10" and 15" is ideal.
Less penetration than that doesn't get to the vitals.
More penetration than 15", and you're not doing enough damage to the tissue that you're passing through.
Can anyone explain it maybe a little better?
I'm sure that someone can elaborate.

[gdnctr]

Originally posted by caz223
More velocity= less penetration, more damage.
less velocity= more penetration, less damage.
In the same weight, and diameter JHP bullet.
More bullet weight= more penetration. (Less velocity)
It makes finding the perfect load for the application somewhat important.
In humans, anywhere between 10" and 15" is ideal.
Less penetration than that doesn't get to the vitals.
More penetration than 15", and you're not doing enough damage to the tissue that you're passing through.
Can anyone explain it maybe a little better?
I'm sure that someone can elaborate.


Okay me bad, dumb x 2:

"More velocity= less penetration, more damage.
less velocity= more penetration, less damage."

Here's where I have the problem. Isn't a '67 427 SCX Cobra hitting the wall at 157mph, going to penetrate deeper than a '72 Olds 442 hitting the wall at 92mph?

Shouldn't the faster load go thru the BG and do less damage? Wouldn't the slower load, doing more damage as it travels thru, mucking everything in the way, up?

Uh oh, time for a nap. Too much strain upon the brain.

[caz223]

I'm trying to relate info that I have seen personally, and data that I have seen in the books.
We will assume JHP, not FMJ.
The smaller bullet at higher velocity will hit harder, cause more damage, make a big wound channel, and shred more tissue than the same bullet at less velocity. OR heavier, and slower.
The hollow point will expand more, and deform, and tumble and cause crush damage, versus a big heavy bullet that will penetrate, not deform, exit, and be recovered somewhat intact.

The big car, little car argument doesnt apply with a wall.
If the wall was made of soft material, and was a fifty feet thick, then we'll see.
Anybody else want to chime in here????

[student_gunner]

Given that we are talking about the 147grain Hornady SXT in this thread:

This bullet is designed for self defense. It is designed to expand reliably at around 1000 fps.

Some people have a concern about 147 gr bullets overpenetrating.

When the bullet hits a fluid medium( gel, flesh ) hydrostatic pressure should open up the hollow point. ( higher velocity will make this happen quicker and more reliably )

As the bullet travels through the medium, it gives up it's kinetic energy to the surrounding tissues.

Drag on the bullet determines the rate at which it will give up it's energy.

Drag is directly proportional to the area of the frontal surface. A .44 will have double the drag of a .22 (unexpanded)

Drag is proportional to the square of the velocity. So a bullet travelling 1500fps will have four times the drag of a bullet travelling 750fps.

So as a bullet travels faster, it tends to transfer it's kinetic energy faster.

Here's my analogy:

Let's say you hop into the pool. You don't get much resistance going in.

Now try falling from a waterski at 60mph. you will feel a significant impact because of the resistance of the water.

Hope this helps,
SG

[gdnctr]

I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying. Gosh, I'm glad I didn't choose either neurosurgery or rocket science as a career. I've printed out the thread and will keep studying until I masdter the concept. Thanks.

[caz223]

Thank you student_gunner.
I was getting frustrated on how little actual data there is available that isn't flawed, skewed, or trying to sell you something.

Gdnctr:
Also, in theory hollowpoints should work at very low speeds, but sometimes they don't open up until too late to do enough damage.
Also, sometimes the point plugs up with denim, leather, etc and the hollow points don't open at all.

Extra velocity is a little insurance that hollow points open up and do their job.

That's why when you handload, you select the correct weight and correct design bullet, with thin/thick enough jacket, in the correct velocity range with enough penetration to do the required job.
(For hunting, plinking, varmints, etc.)

[kidcoltoutlaw]

shoot some over night soaked phone books you will see it for yourself.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

and better yet shoot some dry paper any caliber jhp or jsp will expan in wet only fast bullets will expand in dry.