would like opinions, especially from L.E.O's

[sonny27]

late friday night I was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy. I haven't been pulled over in a while. I thought it would have been respectful and courteous to let him know I was carrying. As he came to my window he asked for my info. I handed him my PPL(even though I'm not required to) and informed him that I was carrying. He then got excited and raised his voice, he told me to get out of the car. As I was taking off my seatbelt he reiterated again "get out". When I got out I turned around he took my firearm out and patted my front pockets down. He then asked if I had anymore firearms on my person or in my vehicle. I said no. He told me to get back in my car. He was less than professional most of traffic stop. during the end he put my firearm in my trunk and told me that I should carry my firearm (kimber 1911) cocked, it could accidentally go off and hurt myself or others. I said thanks and I appreciate your help. I then went on my way.


thanks,

Sonny

[volsbear]

Does Indiana law require you to declare to law enforcement that you are carrying?

[KSFreeman]

What the heck is a PPL? You mean LTCH (license to carry handgun)?

*Oh, wait, Personal Protection License. The little pink card, gotcha.*

I'm confused. Who told you to tell the officer you had a gun? Did you do so because you have to in Texas? Why would you call the Sheriff???

Do not volunteer stuff. Are you guys getting this stuff off television or where?

Why would you not think that confronting the officer with the fact that you are armed right off the bat would not elicit that sort of response? Do I need to tell you my "first time gun owner, the rookie officer and the traffic stop" story again?:supergrin:

[FThorn]

What the heck is a PPL? You mean LTCH (license to carry handgun)?

*Oh, wait, Personal Protection License. The little pink card, gotcha.*

I'm confused. Who told you to tell the officer you had a gun? Did you do so because you have to in Texas? Why would you call the Sheriff???

Do not volunteer stuff. Are you guys getting this stuff off television or where?

Why would you not think that confronting the officer with the fact that you are armed right off the bat would not elicit that sort of response? Do I need to tell you my "first time gun owner, the rookie officer and the traffic stop" story again?:supergrin:


YES. I would like that.

[KSFreeman]

Long ago in a land far, far away, in an imaginary land called Tippecanoe County . . .:supergrin:

First time gun buyer walks into gun store in downtown Lafayette and buys Smith M66 2.5". Gun owner is hypercritical engineer type and does not want to "violate" law so he refuses to pick up pistol until his LTCH arrives.

LTCH arrives and gun owner picks up pistol and then drives off. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, LPD's downtown car is manned by freshly minted rookie and his FTO who pull over gun owner for turn signal (IIRC). Car pulled over on 3rd street by County building. Gun owner pulls over immediately and starts digging in glove box.

Officers trudge up to car. Gun owner whips out little pink card and pistol. While holding both up to window of car, he exclaims, "look, officer, I'm legal."

Rookie jumps up and down and attempts to both pull his pistol and duck to cover. FTO, on other side of car, starts yelling for coolness and bobbing up and down to avoid both gun owner's pistol and rookie's pistol.

Everyone calms down and gun owner meets Mr. Sidewalk. Afterwards, a criminal defense attorney contacts a young, dynamic, striking, athletic, hunky, smooth operator, who men admire and women desire, of a Deputy Prosecuting Attorney and relates the tale to said noble, regal DPA.

Young, dynamic, athletic, hunky smooth operator DPA contacts cops to confirm. Since, outside of Criminal Stupidity, not much a crime was invovled (I did consider Criminal Recklessness for a while but did not go forward with it), no-criminal-record-having gun owner was strongly advised to go to gun school and not do dumb things in the future.

Do not tell the cops you have a pistol. Do not make cops nervous. Remember, cops are used to dealing with less than optimal citizens. You running your mouth about having a gun will be presumed to be illegal until shown otherwise.

Yeah, boy, everyone's got guns. Just leave your pistol in your holster and your tongue in your mouth.:supergrin:

[KSFreeman]

BTW, Sheriff Ken Campbell has a story about a traffic stop where the driver pulled a cigarette lighter in the shape of a pistol to light a smoke while Ken was running his license. The driver gave the lighter to Ken (and probably stopped smoking).:supergrin::rofl:

[MakeMineaP99]

Do not tell the cops you have a pistol. Do not make cops nervous. Remember, cops are used to dealing with less than optimal citizens. You running your mouth about having a gun will be presumed to be illegal until shown otherwise.

Yeah, boy, everyone's got guns. Just leave your pistol in your holster and your tongue in your mouth.:supergrin:

Do you remember the story of the 12 Sicilians in Unintended Consequences?

This parallel your story quite well.

[KSFreeman]

That's the Joe Columbo murder!

[Pitmaster]

If I ever have to inform an officer that I am armed I would use the term "firearm" vs. gun. Firearm would be a tad less threatening and should keep it a tad calmer.

[KSFreeman]

Inform the officer? Firearm vs. gun???

Is this Texas or something? Do you people really think Kirk's First Law is true???:wow:

[Pitmaster]

Inform the officer? Firearm vs. gun???

Is this Texas or something? Do you people really think Kirk's First Law is true???:wow:

There may be times that informing the officer is appropriate and I wasn't referring to IN. I do get outside the state since Michigan is across the street. :cool:

[bradp]

Should I inform the officer about our kids water pistols too?:rofl:

[MakeMineaP99]

There may be times that informing the officer is appropriate and I wasn't referring to IN. I do get outside the state since Michigan is across the street. :cool:

+1. I spend a lot of time in MI. Say what you want to about MI, but the MI State Police are always professional.

[MakeMineaP99]

Is this Texas or something? Do you people really think Kirk's First Law is true???:wow:

Everyone knows that all Kirk's Laws of the internet are true, just like everyone knows that Al Gore invented the internet. :rofl:

[rhino465]

Do not volunteer stuff. Are you guys getting this stuff off television or where?
----

Do not tell the cops you have a pistol. Do not make cops nervous. Remember, cops are used to dealing with less than optimal citizens. You running your mouth about having a gun will be presumed to be illegal until shown otherwise.

Yeah, boy, everyone's got guns. Just leave your pistol in your holster and your tongue in your mouth.




The two quotes above are worth of multiple repetition.

[SARG]

I've stopped several fellas in the last twenty years that have let me know they were armed.

The first back in the late eighties ... during a traffic stop ... got out of his car the same time I exited the patrol. He had a 1911 in a cross draw rig and had his hands up chest high. Almost like the start position in a competition.

Yes ... I was startled & yes ... for a moment the thought crossed my mind we were gonna have a "contest" between the cars.

He agreeably placed his hands on the roof of his vehicle while we chatted.

The second fellow just let me know he had a sidearm at his waist from inside his vehicle. I said "No problem...just keep your hands empty" and we got along fine..... even when he got his ticket.


A good rule of thumb is that three out of ten are stupid and that even includes cops.

[KSFreeman]

Got out of the car?

Where do these people come from? Never get out of the car. It's a sure sign that you are HTV.:supergrin:

[sonny27]

I've stopped several fellas in the last twenty years that have let me know they were armed.

The first back in the late eighties ... during a traffic stop ... got out of his car the same time I exited the patrol. He had a 1911 in a cross draw rig and had his hands up chest high. Almost like the start position in a competition.

Yes ... I was startled & yes ... for a moment the thought crossed my mind we were gonna have a "contest" between the cars.

He agreeably placed his hands on the roof of his vehicle while we chatted.

The second fellow just let me know he had a sidearm at his waist from inside his vehicle. I said "No problem...just keep your hands empty" and we got along fine..... even when he got his ticket.


A good rule of thumb is that three out of ten are stupid and that even includes cops.



Sarg,

thanks for your post...

[thinkfast]

If asked, be truthful. If you're bent on notifying the officer you could simply hand him/her your pink permit with your DL and leave it at that. But volunteering extra info could lead to unnecessary additional investigation and nervousness by the officer. Not all LEO's are as 2nd Amendment friendly and constituitionally savvy as the ones on this forum.

[INJoker]

I've never been pulled over since I've been carrying, but if I get pulled over tomorrow, I'll give 'em my LTCH with my license and registration.

I know it's not required. I know it's none of the cop's business if I'm carrying. But it's what I would do. For those of you who think I'm bending over for The Man, I can assure you it's not that. But if I were a cop, I'd appreciate it.

Sarg is spot on... You've got the "ten percent" rule or in some cases, it's as high as "thirty percent," but most LEOs that I've dealt with over the years have been at least professional if not cordial.

I figure they're at risk all day every day of getting blasted by an inattentive motorist while standing on the side of the road or at risk of being shot by some hardcore junkie who doesn't want to go back to prison. The least I can do is be polite and straightforward, even if it's not required by law.

Also, Pitmaster, I spend a lot of time in Michigan too so I know what you mean.

YMMV.

[who_dat]

I've never been pulled over since I've been carrying, but if I get pulled over tomorrow, I'll give 'em my LTCH with my license and registration.

I know it's not required. I know it's none of the cop's business if I'm carrying. But it's what I would do. For those of you who think I'm bending over for The Man, I can assure you it's not that. But if I were a cop, I'd appreciate it.

Sarg is spot on... You've got the "ten percent" rule or in some cases, it's as high as "thirty percent," but most LEOs that I've dealt with over the years have been at least professional if not cordial.

I figure they're at risk all day every day of getting blasted by an inattentive motorist while standing on the side of the road or at risk of being shot by some hardcore junkie who doesn't want to go back to prison. The least I can do is be polite and straightforward, even if it's not required by law.

Also, Pitmaster, I spend a lot of time in Michigan too so I know what you mean.

YMMV.
Follow the law of the state you are in. Anything else will evoke responses that could preclude everyone having a nice day.

If you are in a state that does not require you give your permit, and you do, you are making a routine stop different that the norm. No one likes things different from the norm, and no one is trained or prepared for things different than the norm. Do not do things different from the norm.

Do not give the nice policeman stress. He does not like stress. He gets enough. Capiche?

[INJoker]

Follow the law of the state you are in. Anything else will evoke responses that could preclude everyone having a nice day.

If you are in a state that does not require you give your permit, and you do, you are making a routine stop different that the norm. No one likes things different from the norm, and no one is trained or prepared for things different than the norm. Do not do things different from the norm.

Do not give the nice policeman stress. He does not like stress. He gets enough. Capiche?

I guess I didn't really think about it like that... Point taken for consideration.

In Indiana, does our LTCH show up when they run our license? Anybody know?

[MakeMineaP99]

In Indiana, does our LTCH show up when they run our license? Anybody know?

In MI, it's in LEIN, if you're a MI resident and have ever applied for a CPL, whether approved or not.

Unless something has check in recent years, IN LTCH don't show up per say, but the status of LTCH can be check with a phone call.

That said, I spend a lot of time in MI (work out of MI), which requires notice, regardless of what LEIN says.

ETA: Nate what parts of MI you hang around?

[INJoker]

My s/o is in Kalamazoo/Portage and I spend 6-10 days a month there and I've got some friends in the Niles area that I see once a month or so. You?

[MakeMineaP99]

My s/o is in Kalamazoo/Portage and I spend 6-10 days a month there and I've got some friends in the Niles area that I see once a month or so. You?

All over lower MI, when I'm not traveling for the company. The office is in GR, (rarely threre) and I'm doing my MS in Flint (thankfully I'm here very briefly).

[Bogey]

I know I'm an out-of-towner, but what I have to ask (say) might be relevant. Those of you that live in Indiana might shed some good light on this subject for me.

In North Carolina, we are required to notify LEO whenever approached by LE. The usual procedure here when pulled over is to turn on dome light (at night), roll down window, and keep hands on the steering wheel until the officer arrives at the car. NO movement or digging through stuff for our info while waiting for him/her to get to our cars. (CHP IS tied to DL #)At the point of LE adressing us, I just tell them "officer, I have a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon, and I am armed at this time. How do you wish me to proceed?"

Every time I have done so, the stop/encounter has gone SO smooth and well, it's almost as if the officer doesn't give a rat's behind. Matter of fact, in all my cases, it has generated discussion about guns, and even invitations for LE to come shoot matches with me.

That said, I visit my sister in Indy from time to time. Should I be pulled over, I had always thought of extending the same courtesy to Indiana LEOs. Should I? Or should I just keep my yap shut?

[MakeMineaP99]

I know I'm an out-of-towner, but what I have to ask (say) might be relevant. Those of you that live in Indiana might shed some good light on this subject for me.

In North Carolina, we are required to notify LEO whenever approached by LE. The usual procedure here when pulled over is to turn on dome light (at night), roll down window, and keep hands on the steering wheel until the officer arrives at the car. NO movement or digging through stuff for our info while waiting for him/her to get to our cars. (CHP IS tied to DL #)At the point of LE adressing us, I just tell them "officer, I have a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon, and I am armed at this time. How do you wish me to proceed?"

Every time I have done so, the stop/encounter has gone SO smooth and well, it's almost as if the officer doesn't give a rat's behind. Matter of fact, in all my cases, it has generated discussion about guns, and even invitations for LE to come shoot matches with me.

That said, I visit my sister in Indy from time to time. Should I be pulled over, I had always thought of extending the same courtesy to Indiana LEOs. Should I? Or should I just keep my yap shut?

Personal call. My personal philosphy is to inform the officer, especially an ISP trooper when traveling the interstates.

If I was in South Bend or Mishawaka or a more occupied area, I might keep my mouth shut unless is became a problem, i.e. detained for whatever reason. Depends on the situation.

[Indy_Guy_77]

I know I'm an out-of-towner, but what I have to ask (say) might be relevant. Those of you that live in Indiana might shed some good light on this subject for me.

In North Carolina, we are required to notify LEO whenever approached by LE. The usual procedure here when pulled over is to turn on dome light (at night), roll down window, and keep hands on the steering wheel until the officer arrives at the car. NO movement or digging through stuff for our info while waiting for him/her to get to our cars. (CHP IS tied to DL #)At the point of LE adressing us, I just tell them "officer, I have a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon, and I am armed at this time. How do you wish me to proceed?"

Every time I have done so, the stop/encounter has gone SO smooth and well, it's almost as if the officer doesn't give a rat's behind. Matter of fact, in all my cases, it has generated discussion about guns, and even invitations for LE to come shoot matches with me.

That said, I visit my sister in Indy from time to time. Should I be pulled over, I had always thought of extending the same courtesy to Indiana LEOs. Should I? Or should I just keep my yap shut?

Don't the requirements in Indiana stipulate that you must abide by the laws of your home state whilst in another...in addition to the laws of the state you're presently in?

-J-

[who_dat]

Don't the requirements in Indiana stipulate that you must abide by the laws of your home state whilst in another...in addition to the laws of the state you're presently in?

-J-

That could be contradictory and dangerous. MI law says you must obey the laws of the state you are in. Requirements for MI, or any state, have no legal standing in any other state.

[MakeMineaP99]

That could be contradictory and dangerous. MI law says you must obey the laws of the state you are in. Requirements for MI, or any state, have no legal standing in any other state.

Ah, but IN says you must abide by any and all restrictions on your permit/license.

If it's printed on a NC permit/license, one must notify LEO, he/she would be bound by that restriction in IN.

[Indy_Guy_77]

Ahh... If it's printed on there.

Gotcha.

What are the chances that the average LEO is going to know the terms and conditions of all the other states that license carry? Exactly!

[MakeMineaP99]

Ahh... If it's printed on there.

Gotcha.

What are the chances that the average LEO is going to know the terms and conditions of all the other states that license carry? Exactly!

You're gambling. There's LEOs that don't give a damn about illegally carrying a gun and some who don't think anyone but the police should have guns.

[Bogey]

Thanks for the responses guys.


Glad I asked. :cool:

[rhino465]

The best policy is "don't ask; don't tell" and keep you hands where they can see them.

[who_dat]

Ah, but IN says you must abide by any and all restrictions on your permit/license.

If it's printed on a NC permit/license, one must notify LEO, he/she would be bound by that restriction in IN.

You might want to check with IN before you go with that. Each state that recognizes the other's license says that they do so under the rules of the state you will be in. You state's laws mean nothing in another state.

[MakeMineaP99]

Each state that recognizes the other's license says that they do so under the rules of the state you will be in. You state's laws mean nothing in another state.

Not true.

It's codified in statue. You must abide by the laws of IN and comply with any and all restrictions appearing on your license.


IC 35-47-2-21 Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states 35-47-2-21 Sec. 21. (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale. (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.

[who_dat]

Not true.

It's codified in statue. You must abide by the laws of IN and comply with any and all restrictions appearing on your license.


IC 35-47-2-21 Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states 35-47-2-21 Sec. 21. (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale. (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.

Never would have believed it and it still seems like it could be a problem. How is a LEO to know the terms of another state? What if there is a conflict? i.e. Concealed in glove box versus on the seat?

I'm going out on a limb here and saying I think the term "...recognized according to the terms thereof" means the terms or qualifications for the license, i.e. sane, no felonies, that stuff. The laws that apply in the state you are in are the laws you should follow for concealed carry, not the laws of the state you are from.

Once more, the laws from your home state hold no water in any other state. See the following from MI State Police Firearms Law:

A Michigan concealed pistol licensee who wishes to carry a concealed pistol in another state is responsible for complying with the laws of that state

Michigan's concealed pistol law expressly recognizes permits issued by other states to its residents. MCL 28.432a. However, non-residents are subject to the Michigan law while carrying a pistol in Michigan, including those restricting where pistols may be carried, the implied consent provision, disclosure to a peace officer when stopped, and carrying while under the influence. A non-resident should acquaint himself or herself with the Michigan law before carrying a concealed pistol in Michigan.

Similarly, a Michigan concealed pistol licensee who wishes to carry a concealed pistol in another state is responsible for complying with the laws of that state. In an effort to identify which states recognize Michigan issued concealed pistol licenses, each state was contacted by the Attorney General.

[MakeMineaP99]

Never would have believed it and it still seems like it could be a problem. How is a LEO to know the terms of another state? What if there is a conflict? i.e. Concealed in glove box versus on the seat?

I'm going out on a limb here and saying I think the term "...recognized according to the terms thereof" means the terms or qualifications for the license, i.e. sane, no felonies, that stuff. The laws that apply in the state you are in are the laws you should follow for concealed carry, not the laws of the state you are from.

Once more, the laws from your home state hold no water in any other state. See the following from MI State Police Firearms Law:

A Michigan concealed pistol licensee who wishes to carry a concealed pistol in another state is responsible for complying with the laws of that state

Michigan's concealed pistol law expressly recognizes permits issued by other states to its residents. MCL 28.432a. However, non-residents are subject to the Michigan law while carrying a pistol in Michigan, including those restricting where pistols may be carried, the implied consent provision, disclosure to a peace officer when stopped, and carrying while under the influence. A non-resident should acquaint himself or herself with the Michigan law before carrying a concealed pistol in Michigan.

Similarly, a Michigan concealed pistol licensee who wishes to carry a concealed pistol in another state is responsible for complying with the laws of that state. In an effort to identify which states recognize Michigan issued concealed pistol licenses, each state was contacted by the Attorney General.

That only applies to MI, IN is free to have different stipulations on out of state folks.

If a MI CPL holder carries into IN, he/she must abide by the pistol free zones printed on the back of the "blue card", unless exempt and all off limits place as perscribed by IN law.

Similarly, if a FL CWP holder comes to IN, he/she must carry concealed, as the license states "concealed."

Regardless of intent, the letter of the law is the letter of the law, even though it may not be a priority for enforcment.

We've been over this with KSFreeman before, he'll tell you the same thing.

See: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781091&highlight=open+carry

[KSFreeman]

Minor Correction: if a FL CCW comes to Indiana, he must carry while wearing black socks and sandals, wear giant, oversized sunglasses, eat dinner at 4:00 pm, and drive around in a golf cart as these are all specified by the Florida license.:rofl:

Yeah, Michigan, follow Indiana law, no problem. Indiana law requires you carry according to the terms of your blue card from Michigan. So, carry on.:supergrin:

Carry in a glovebox or under the seat??? Is that what your license gives as a term? Why not carry it on you? Never understood why guys want to put under the seat (didn't they study the Miami FBI shootout?) or the glovebox where you may have a problem with the draw.

If you have a carry license and you want to stick in the glovebox, O.K., we don't care, just have a license (from somewhere). Someone told me that Georgia requires a holster, but do not know if that is a term of the license.

[who_dat]

Yeah, Michigan, follow Indiana law, no problem. Indiana law requires you carry according to the terms of your blue card from Michigan. So, carry on.:supergrin:

Carry in a glovebox or under the seat??? Is that what your license gives as a term? Why not carry it on you?

Some states say glovebox carry is not CCW, MI says it is. I just used that as an example.

Are you using the same section of law that says IN recognizes the terms of other state? I would like to see the law regarding IN law saying I follow MI law in IN. Follow IN law makes sense, Follow MI law in IN, makes no sense and could get you in big trouble.

[KSFreeman]

Follow Michigan law??? Who said that?

You need to follow Indiana law in Indiana. Part of Indiana law holds that your foreign (Michigan) license will be recognize but only by the terms of your license.

Indiana Code 35-47-2-21(b) is the statute that you wish to see and was quoted above by 99.

[who_dat]

Follow Michigan law??? Who said that?

You need to follow Indiana law in Indiana. Part of Indiana law holds that your foreign (Michigan) license will be recognize but only by the terms of your license.

Indiana Code 35-47-2-21(b) is the statute that you wish to see and was quoted above by 99.

MakeMineaP99 said it. I said you must follow the law of the state you are in, The misundertanding comes from this FAQ on IN Firearms Law website:

-When carrying within the state of Indiana on an out of state permit, the permittee must carry in accordance with the terms of the permit; for instance, if the permit says "concealed handgun permit," then it must be concealed. If it simply says license to carry handgun, it can then be carried either openly or concealed.

If I have a certain type of CCW permit, I must follow the terms of that permit as it says here. I do not follow MI law when in IN as P99 says.

It's simple until the translations start. Read all of 99's posts and you may see where he thinks he has to follow IN law when in another state, not just the "terms" of his license.

[MakeMineaP99]

If I have a certain type of CCW permit, I must follow the terms of that permit as it says here. I do not follow MI law when in IN as P99 says.

It's simple until the translations start. Read all of 99's posts and you may see where he thinks he has to follow IN law when in another state, not just the "terms" of his license.

I disagree. IN says you must abide by the terms of the license, the pistol free zones printed on the back of the MI CPL are part of the terms, as is the concealed part.

I never said that I have to follow IN law in another state, I pointed out that IN statue requires out of state folks to abide by restrictions and stipulations on their permits/licenses. The only stipulation on my IN LTCH is "NOT VALID ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT", where as MI has pistol free zones printed on the back.

If you're going to misquote me, please do it accurately. :supergrin:

[who_dat]

I disagree. IN says you must abide by the terms of the license, the pistol free zones printed on the back of the MI CPL are part of the terms, as is the concealed part.

I never said that I have to follow IN law in another state, I pointed out that IN statue requires out of state folks to abide by restrictions and stipulations on their permits/licenses. The only stipulation on my IN LTCH is "NOT VALID ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT", where as MI has pistol free zones printed on the back.

If you're going to misquote me, please do it accurately. :supergrin:

I'm reading "terms" as the qualifications to get the license from the state. You are reading the "terms" as those restrictions particular to the state law of the state that issues the license.

What is on the back of my card applies in MI, not in IN. In IN, I actually have to follow what is on the back of YOUR card.

My information comes from our CPL instructors, a local sheriff, and the MSP. Sorry if we disagree, but that's how I would interpret it as well.

I hope I haven't misquoted you this time. Sorry.:wavey:

[KSFreeman]

Just so we all know where we are.

Now, where's my coffee?:supergrin:

[Buckaroo]

My understanding of the "law" is in agreement with MakeMineaP99. That said however, I don't expect many LEOs to enforce the law that way but rather in agreement with who_dat.

I think that provision of the law needs to be removed! It is pretty useless as no LEOs are going to have enough knowledge of other states laws to enforce the provision.

Buckaroo (who already had his coffee and now needs a Diet Coke!)

[MakeMineaP99]

I'm reading "terms" as the qualifications to get the license from the state. You are reading the "terms" as those restrictions particular to the state law of the state that issues the license.

What is on the back of my card applies in MI, not in IN. In IN, I actually have to follow what is on the back of YOUR card.

My information comes from our CPL instructors, a local sheriff, and the MSP. Sorry if we disagree, but that's how I would interpret it as well.

I hope I haven't misquoted you this time. Sorry.:wavey:

That is where some clear case law would be helpful. As you have noted, two differing opinions can be drawn from the statue.

We don't have anything printed on the back our card, it's blank. The only thing on the license (front) is "NOT VALID ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT." However, there are some more off limits places in IN that aircraft, not noted on the LTCH.

Have you printed the IN statue and shown it to the above mentioned individuals, I'd be interested to see their responses.

My comment about misquoting was a joke. :supergrin:

Buckaroo,

Yes the statue is poorly written and could use some rework.

Kirk,

You drink coffee? Every knows English people only drink tea. :supergrin:

[KSFreeman]

who, no, you have to carry in Indiana according to the terms of your license, not according to our license (hunting/target shooting v. personal protection). You must follow Indiana law, but part of Indiana law requires that you carry according to the terms of your Michigan license.

If the terms of your license say concealed, then you must cover up.

If the terms of your license restricts to certain types of pistols as does Texas (revovler v. self-loader), then you muct carry according to that term.

If the terms of your license specify the exact pistol(s) that you can carry (Glock 19 serial #US 696986), as does California, then you must carry only those pistols.

[KSFreeman]

The English invented the coffeehouse, not Starbuck's.:tongueout:

[who_dat]

who, no, you have to carry in Indiana according to the terms of your license, not according to our license (hunting/target shooting v. personal protection). You must follow Indiana law, but part of Indiana law requires that you carry according to the terms of your Michigan license.

If the terms of your license say concealed, then you must cover up.

If the terms of your license restricts to certain types of pistols as does Texas (revovler v. self-loader), then you muct carry according to that term.

If the terms of your license specify the exact pistol(s) that you can carry (Glock 19 serial #US 696986), as does California, then you must carry only those pistols.

Those are the types of terms to which I refer. The terms of GETTING a
license. The part I have problems with are the things like CEZ's and other restrictions specific to a state.

Even in your example, there is room to wiggle...my license says Concealed Pistol License, but MI is an open carry state, so I can carry open or concealed. If I imprint or flash, there is no penalty. I'm sure the intent of the law is that if I have a license, I must keep the "terms" of my home state valid, meaning felony free-no PPO's-being drug free and the other requirements to get said license. When I enter IN, my CEZ's don't mean squat if they conflict with yours. I can carry openly with a CPL in a hospital, even in a school, but I bet I can't in IN. I have to follow the letter of the law in the state I'm in . Terms of getting a license and terms of using a license are different and I think they are getting confused here.