View Full Version : Don't modify your Glock. It won't be reliable.
I keep seeing people suggest that you shouldn't modify your Glock, because while they're superbly reliable, you might screw them up.
Almost nothing in this gun is stock. It's full of lighter springs, reworked trigger parts, a 13-pound recoil spring, and anything else you can generally do to improve the way it shoots in matches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gs96avvBjQ
It works pretty well, even when slightly dirty, doesn't it. ;)
sphillips45
02-02-2008, 21:25
All my Glocks stay stock, no Extended anything or lighter springs, But that is just me . Glocks work just like them come from the factory why change anything.
fofinger
02-02-2008, 21:39
all that mud and dirt will eventually give your slide a little more clearance....maybe even a few nifty grooves that you can put your lube in.....
tampashooters
02-02-2008, 21:43
Don't put diesel fuel in your Chevy Chevette....
All my Glocks stay stock, no Extended anything or lighter springs, But that is just me . Glocks work just like them come from the factory why change anything.Yeah. Stock glocks run. Modified ones just run much better and faster.:supergrin:
Apocalypse_Now
02-02-2008, 22:45
Stock V8 engines run great too :tongueout:
All my Glocks stay stock, no Extended anything or lighter springs, But that is just me . Glocks work just like them come from the factory why change anything.
Not sure if you shoot competitively, but if you shot mills' gun, you would probably eat those words.
zackwatt
02-02-2008, 23:10
Why would I change "Perfection"? :tongueout:
WellArmedSheep
02-02-2008, 23:13
Why would I change "Perfection"? :tongueout:
Because perfection isn't perfect for everyone. :)
I've never shot a "perfect" gun.
Arc Angel
02-02-2008, 23:17
Yeah. Stock glocks run. Modified ones just run much better and faster.
:upeyes: Well .... Yeah, but, apparently ONLY for those who know what they're supposed to be doing in the first place! ;)
If only the internet could allow people to put their money where their mouths are...
freakshow10mm
02-02-2008, 23:30
I've run my G30 completely dry (zero lubrication) for over 5K rounds and never a hitch.
My defense gal will stay all natural. Now, my next party gal will be all full of silicone fun stuff.:supergrin:
Stormflap
02-02-2008, 23:53
Yeah, but I think there's a difference between what you want to do with a match gun and what you're willing to do with a CCW piece.
freakshow10mm
02-03-2008, 00:05
I use my G30 for both.
hikerpaddler
02-03-2008, 00:06
Modify all you want. I shoot great with stock parts, and with excellent reliability. If you need aftermarket parts to enhance your shooting, and you find some that give you reliable service, rock on!
rdmtbiker
02-03-2008, 01:01
My defense gal will stay all natural. Now, my next party gal will be all full of silicone fun stuff.:supergrin:
With air pump included....:rofl:
sorry...:wavey:
Modify all you want. I shoot great with stock parts, and with excellent reliability. If you need aftermarket parts to enhance your shooting, and you find some that give you reliable service, rock on!
Its not about needing. Its about wanting a better set up than what the factory did.
Regarding Freakshow10mm:Why would you run it dry? Trying to see how far you can push it? Or is it just for abuse?
freakshow10mm
02-03-2008, 01:16
Because I know it will run.
And right now it's too cold outside to run lube. I've tried dry lube but my gun runs fine without any lube. No meaningful wear either. Unless I told you you wouldn't know I ran it dry.
Poppa Bear
02-03-2008, 01:20
Modify all you want. I shoot great with stock parts, and with excellent reliability. If you need aftermarket parts to enhance your shooting, and you find some that give you reliable service, rock on!
I also shoot with stock parts and my Glocks shoot very well with those stock parts. NONE of my Glocks have unmodified stock parts. Every one of them has been polished and smoothed in several area so that the overall performance is better. A great example is why have a gritty trigger when a little knowledgeable work on the trigger bar, connector, and firing pin lug can make it is smooth as glass?
Can anybody do this to their Glock? Nope, just like some people can burn water, some people just do not have the feel when it comes to smoothing things out. If you have the feel for it then go for it. If you do not have the feel then either leave it alone or find someone to do it for you.
Stock V8 engines run great too :tongueout:
True but stock is slow:rofl: and it sucks:whistling:
freakshow10mm
02-03-2008, 01:23
Single digits and over 10 feet of snow so far this winter.
I keep seeing people suggest that you shouldn't modify your Glock, because while they're superbly reliable, you might screw them up.
Almost nothing in this gun is stock. It's full of lighter springs, reworked trigger parts, a 13-pound recoil spring, and anything else you can generally do to improve the way it shoots in matches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gs96avvBjQ
It works pretty well, even when slightly dirty, doesn't it. ;)
Nobody said your glock won't be reliable if you modify it.
They say if reliability is what's most important to you, modification is a common way people degrade reliability. Which is true.
:upeyes::supergrin:
GLOCK_27
02-03-2008, 04:22
did your gun jam or did you just underload every mag?
djmell762
02-03-2008, 04:30
it's not a 1911
kimberguy2004
02-03-2008, 07:12
Because perfection isn't perfect for everyone. :)
Well put...
EAGLESFANPHILA
02-03-2008, 07:36
The only thing I've ever had installed on my Glocks are night nights; and that's only because they look cool.
G21forME
02-03-2008, 07:41
Hey ecmills,
Who makes that striker? I have glockworx skeleton striker in my 34 but it doesn't have that cutout, got a link for the product?
I keep seeing people suggest that you shouldn't modify your Glock, because while they're superbly reliable, you might screw them up.
That's true if you don't know what you are doing by swapping parts or polishing them. Glocks like 1911's can be worked to perform better than stock, if you know:
1. The goal, what you want to achieve: better accuracy, better trigger, better sight picture etc...
2. The means to get there
I have done some modifications to my G19. Currently I have 2 trigger assemblies (trigger bar, connector, springs), one for target shooting and one for hd. Target shooting trigger has been worked a lot (diy): polishing, pre- and overtravel reducement, Ghost rocket connector, competition springs. Hd trigger is stock with polished parts and 3 1/2lb connector. It's a 5 min job to swap between those assemblies. Both have been 100% reliable so far.
happyguy
02-03-2008, 08:11
I don't see a problem with modifying a competition gun. After all, the difference between winner and loser can be measured in hundredths of a second or a tenth of an inch, and the loser still gets to go home.
My Glocks are for carry a they are stock except for a little grip tape on the front stap and a change of sights.
Edited to add: I also added a LWD trigger stop to each of them, however they were rigourously tested afterward.
Regards,
Happyguy :)
Arc Angel
02-03-2008, 08:31
Nobody said your glock won't be reliable if you modify it.
They say if reliability is what's most important to you, modification is a common way people degrade reliability. Which is true.
:) Like I said before: Not necessarily!
Perhaps your statement would be more valid if you were to rephrase it as; ' .... Modification can be a common way people degrade reliability. Which is true.'
Bill Lumberg
02-03-2008, 08:34
+1. .
Nobody said your glock won't be reliable if you modify it.
They say if reliability is what's most important to you, modification is a common way people degrade reliability. Which is true.
:upeyes::supergrin:
Mild Bill
02-03-2008, 09:22
I think that Glocks actually 'need' extended slide releases, extended slide stops, and of course, white lettering...
Serious on the first two...
:beer:
danielsand
02-03-2008, 09:58
This statement is true to the point. Glocks are so ridiculously easy to work on, that people with no knowledge about the workings of a firearm, feel confident enough to attempt "improvements"! These are the people that should not own a screwdriver, much less work on the lethal weapon. You know who you are, and I won't be calling any names.
And don't feel offended now, I'm sure you have skills in different areas, some I've never even heard off.
The indisputable fact is,.....an armorer, or a person that worked on ALL KINDS of firearms for MANY years, can significantly improve on Glock "perfection"!! Glock designers followed a simple formula,....how to make an extremely reliable and durable handgun, with the least amount of money! They succeeded without a doubt. But for God's sake, quit buying into the advertising slogans.
"Glock Perfection",....is "perfect" for only one person,...Gaston Glock! Make a product for 75 bucks, and sell it for three times that much (wholesale). Perfect formula, don't you think?
Will the installation and hand fitting of more expensive parts, "ruin" the weapon? Only if you don't know what you're doing Bubba.
Nice Photos ecmills! Pistol looks good with the refinished upper...
freakshow10mm - sounds like Global Warming is really kikin yer buttt this year!
AlphaMike
02-03-2008, 10:27
If my Glocks were for duty carry or if I felt a need to carry legally they would
stay in factory condition. Neither is the case. My Glocks have competition
sights and professionally built trigger groups. After market fitted barrels and
extended everything. Just USPSA game guns. Fun doesn't describe them
enough. But, as real life weapons they're a pretty s#ity boomerangs :okie:
Jim M
I've never shot a "perfect" gun.
You've never fired a Dillon Aero 134D then?
So far the "upgrades", that I have made on my G30 , have been totally
reliable.
Wolf springs
Stainless guide rod
NY 1 trigger spring
Smooth trigger (G21)
25 cent polish
Big Dot night sights
Mag extensions (+0)
Extended slide release
Extended slide lock
Range or Concealed, it runs like a Champ! :supergrin:
freakshow10mm
02-03-2008, 10:53
freakshow10mm - sounds like Global Warming is really kikin yer buttt this year!
I had a pic of a sign at a local college that was having a seminar on global warming. Sign says "Global Warming" but the pic was taken in the middle of a blizzard. Half the sign is covered in snow.:rofl: Can't find the pic on my computer.
mickdundie
02-03-2008, 10:56
Single digits and over 10 feet of snow so far this winter.
DUDE.
If it's that cold you better drain the oil out of your cars/trucks too!:rofl:
I've shot them very modified and completely stock. They've been 100% reliable either way. I have found, however, that once I really learned to use the Glock trigger, stock was the way to go and the extended slide stop caused me to accidentally lock it back a few times. Now my Glock is dead stock except for a Glock OEM extended mag release.
freakshow10mm
02-03-2008, 11:09
DUDE.
If it's that cold you better drain the oil out of your cars/trucks too!:rofl:
Quaker State 4x4 Synthetic 5w-30 takes care of my Blazer.
Northalius
02-03-2008, 11:15
Putting a NY trigger spring in my Glock: Doesn't it make my Glock more reliable than the stock trigger spring?
Putting a NY trigger spring in my Glock: Doesn't it make my Glock more reliable than the stock trigger spring?
In my experiences, one of the few GLOCK breakages I've witnessed at competition or practice, has been the trigger spring. I believe the NY-1 trigger spring is more durable because it compresses rather than extends.
As has been said above by very knowledgeable shooters, as long as you know and understand what you are doing and the purpose you are doing it for, making changes to stock GLOCks can be advantageous. I've made changes to all of my GLOCKs to make them perfect "for me". Sights are changed for either carry (night sights) or competition (like Dawson Precision FOs) or both (like TruGlo TFOs). I always carefully polish all the suggested internal parts. The extended slide stop works best for me on all. The extended mag release works best for me on the competition guns. I have a 3.5-lb LWD connector on all. I have a NY-1 trigger spring on all of my carry GLOCKs. It is my preferred trigger set-up. I have different trigger sets/spring on my competition GLOCKs such as the Glockworx trigger set on my G34.
I believe GLOCKs are some of the most reliable and dependable out-of -the-box pistols available. I want to customize MY GLOCKs to suit my purposes. I feel very comfortable with what I'm doing and know why I'm doing it.
.45Super-Man
02-03-2008, 12:42
I also shoot with stock parts and my Glocks shoot very well with those stock parts. NONE of my Glocks have unmodified stock parts. Every one of them has been polished and smoothed in several area so that the overall performance is better. A great example is why have a gritty trigger when a little knowledgeable work on the trigger bar, connector, and firing pin lug can make it is smooth as glass?
Can anybody do this to their Glock? Nope, just like some people can burn water, some people just do not have the feel when it comes to smoothing things out. If you have the feel for it then go for it. If you do not have the feel then either leave it alone or find someone to do it for you.+1...dont forget to add to the list, the rear of the cruciform and the fp safety(bevel). Also, slightly bending the connector will lighten the pull and make the trigger reset faster, but do your homework prior to bending the connector.
I love it when somebody says my glocks are all stock " except for" If those words are in there then your Glock is not stock. Night sights not stock ,Polish job not stock, NY Trigger spring not stock.Those are mods done to make it better for your intended purpose.I dont care if its a Glock part or not if your gun did not come with it then its a mod and theres nothing wrong with that.Just dont say your gun is stock when its not.
Ok.
Well, to chime in just a little bit, I have modified my G34. It is slightly more unreliable than before. Since putting on a lighter striker spring and heavier trigger spring, I have had one primer that has failed to ignite. I cant say it is the glock or the primer. There was an indent, but it didnt fire. It could be either the lighter spring or the primer.
I have not (in thousands or rounds since I started into glocks) had a misfire. That includes mostly reloads in 10mm and about 50/50 WWB and relaods in 9mm.
I can say that a modified 34 is a nice shooting pistol.
-Dana
People seem to be getting wires crossed here.
We're talking about modifying Glocks, and somehow carry guns got thrown into the mix. My carry gun is a G19 with a polished barrel, Sevigny sights, and a little bit of dremeling on the bottom of the trigger guard to alleviate 'glock knuckle'. It is otherwise COMPLETELY stock.
Back to modifying Glocks: Honestly, most of the changes I've made to my 34 have been made because I HAVE to tinker with it. I can't leave it alone. I could have stopped after installing the Vanek kit, and called it good. But I like to experiment, and deem that I have enough confidence, knowledge, and common sense to do it safely.
I just ordered a spare trigger bar, and I've got a goal I want to work on once it arrives. My current goal is to get the trigger down to about 1/4" of total travel. I'm about halfway there now: I've taken all of the pretravel out of the trigger: As soon as the trigger is moved, it begins to lift the firing pin plunger up into the slide: There's no 1/4" of wasted movement anymore.
With a little more work, I believe I can get the gun to disengage the drop safety and firing pin block WHILE the striker is drawn to the rear, instead of before. This will result in a gun with a 1911-like trigger, with 3 fully functional safeties.
Do I think I'll shoot it any better? I doubt it very much. I just want to see if I can do it. And all the changes will be made to the trigger bar, so swapping a stock one in will result in a stock-travel 2.75 pound trigger, like I had before I started. :)
Hey ecmills,
Who makes that striker? I have glockworx skeleton striker in my 34 but it doesn't have that cutout, got a link for the product?
That's a lightened steel striker from Lightning Strike. They're been making them for years. Personally I avoid Titanium strikers: I've seen the tip (what actually hits the primer) break off. TI isn't ductile enough for this application, IMO. Steel is better.
Glockworx is the other place making lighter strikers, as you mentioned. They're higher-dollar than the LS one, though.
Ok.
Well, to chime in just a little bit, I have modified my G34. It is slightly more unreliable than before. Since putting on a lighter striker spring and heavier trigger spring, I have had one primer that has failed to ignite. I cant say it is the glock or the primer. There was an indent, but it didnt fire. It could be either the lighter spring or the primer.
I have not (in thousands or rounds since I started into glocks) had a misfire. That includes mostly reloads in 10mm and about 50/50 WWB and relaods in 9mm.
I can say that a modified 34 is a nice pistol.
Dana, install a lighter striker, and your problem will disappear. It's not uncommon for lighter striker springs (usually a 4lb Wolff) to have a 1/500 or so failure rate with the hard primers used in ammo like WWB and UMC. You can just load your ammo with those wonderfully soft Federal primers, shoot reloads exclusively, and not worry about modifying the gun... or change the striker and shoot all the factory ammo you want.
did your gun jam or did you just underload every mag?
Not much point in posting that video if it jammed. It was at slide-lock every single time I stopped firing.
None of them were full. After I shot those two videos, I ran another 200 rounds through the gun that day. Not a single hiccup.
Unless you're playing in certain divisions of USPSA, competitive shooters like myself are used to half-filled magazines. Besides, I burned through about 400 rounds just playing around yesterday. If I made a habit of filling my 33 round mags (which takes forever)... I'd be bankrupt. ;)
Your rates seem about right. I have only had one mis-fire. However, it was with a reload. I was using Winchester primers. Maybe I should switch brands (i normally use WIN or CCI because that is what is easiest to get).
Yes, a lighter striker will come soon. I always have to play around.
You mention that Ti isn't ductile enough. That strikes me as odd. Now, I not arguing that tips having broken, but many TIs are very ductile. For example a Grade II Ti is VERY ductile. Maybe in their quiest for strength they have chosen the wrong TI alloy? I would think that they would have made it from Ti-6-4 which in all measures has a better specific strength than almost any steel.
-Dana
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 17:37
True but stock is slow:rofl: and it sucks:whistling:
Exactly my point! :dancing:
(I have a 600 HP fuel injected 514 CI Shelby cobra, BTW)
Exactly my point! :dancing:
(I have a 600 HP fuel injected 514 CI Shelby cobra, BTW)
Not to be a prick, but really 600ho out of 514CI isnt very good. There are factory cars putting out nearly that much HP with smaller engines. Of course I like European engines that se lots of pressure. I mean stock is 480hp out of 3.6L (so 219 CI makes 480hp... 2.2hp per CI).
Is it a real SHELBY cobra or a replica cobra? Real ones are very sweet. Replicas are neat (and a very good looking car) but just isnt the same. The reason why I ask if it is a real SHELBY cobra is that I have met some of teh replica guys and they say it is a real COBRA but they qestioning it they admit its not a real SHELBY cobra.
-Dana
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 17:54
Not to be a prick, but really 600ho out of 514CI isnt very good. There are factory cars putting out nearly that much HP with smaller engines. Of course I like European engines that se lots of pressure. I mean stock is 480hp out of 3.6L (so 219 CI makes 480hp... 2.2hp per CI).
Is it a real SHELBY cobra or a replica cobra? Real ones are very sweet. Replicas are neat (and a very good looking car) but just isnt the same. The reason why I ask if it is a real SHELBY cobra is that I have met some of teh replica guys and they say it is a real COBRA but they qestioning it they admit its not a real SHELBY cobra.
-Dana
I merely use the word Shelby to differentiate it from the modern Mustangs called "cobras". Most people who don't know about the little two seaters think "Mustang" when you say "cobra".
It's a highly improved modern replica with sturdy TIG-welded tubular skeleton frame and all modern gear under the skin, from power assist steering to power cross drilled and vented brakes and a Ford live/pro street rear axle and drop out posi center (rated for 1200 HP) and 6 speed overdrive tranny. And about 25 other modern features. It ain't grandpa's cobra, which were cramped, had handling and braking issues and would nearly melt your tennis shoes from the big block's heat. My version can hold two golf bags or two people's traveling luggage in the trunk, too
600 HP and 622 Ft lbs torque are plenty. Try actually using that much power on the street and we'll try to raise your bail :shocked: More power than the originals had. It also runs on regular gas which is kinda nice these days :supergrin:
PS: If you see one on the street it's almost 100% likely to be a replica. There were only 1,000 originals and not all those survived. They go for up to $7 million each, so driving them around is not a common event
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 17:59
Not to sidetrack but here's a picture of her with the hood removed for shop work, (and her hardtop installed, it was winter) so everyone knows what we're talking about..
http://www.omegamanenterprises.com/images/_private/Randy's%20three.jpg
GLOCK_27
02-03-2008, 18:05
that is one shiny GLOCK
600 HP and 622 Ft lbs torque are plenty. Try actually using that much power on the street and we'll try to raise your bail
I am actually crazier than that (or used to be). I was spraying a little over 100hp into a GSXR1100 that made more than enough power without being sprayed.
Now I am just tame....ok...neutered as the wife rarely lets me ride one of my toys...she has essentially said that only cages are allowed. Racebike is gone now...
http://danat.mesanetworks.net/Busa_Nos.jpg
http://danat.mesanetworks.net/pic4.jpg
Back to original topic....I cant leave anything alone......
-Dana
Hell you can get an easy 600hp out of a small block chevy.
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 20:24
Hell you can get an easy 600hp out of a small block chevy.
But it won't last and you'll probably need special fuels. I wanted a tractable street car that had power and handled like a devil, and could use even crappy gas at some backwoods gas station. It has aluminum Cobrajet heads at 9.1 compression and it runs sweet
Oh I bet it does.I'm not knockin it at all.It does require 110 octane fuel and has about 5500 miles on it so far. Its a little brutal on the street but its fun.This one is pump gas friendly
Horsepower 635 @ 6000 RPM
Torque lbs/ft 630 @ 4600 RPM
Bore & Stroke 4.200 x 4.250
Comp Ratio 10.5
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Cisco1969/472_engine_classic.jpg
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 21:22
My brother used to build high performance small block Chevys.. he was probably the first person in the USA to install one in a Toyota pickup [that thing was scary]
Here's my 514 as it went into my frame..
http://www.omegamanenterprises.com/images/_private/Motor_ready_to_drop_in_2.jpg
Are those Canton Racing heads?
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 21:33
Are those Canton Racing heads?
Ford CobraJet racing heads.. my Edelbrock Torker 2 intake is port matched to them by a former tech member of the Petty Racing team
600 hp out of an American made daily driver is excellent--who cares if a twin turbo Ferrari makes 650. BTW, Thread seriously jacked.
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 22:40
600 hp out of an American made daily driver is excellent--who cares if a twin turbo Ferrari makes 650. BTW, Thread seriously jacked.
Sorry, I promise no more jacking :faint:
I might as well just have this thread locked. Thanks guys. :supergrin:
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 23:23
I might as well just have this thread locked. Thanks guys. :supergrin:
On the plus side the zombies really are coming.. in 2009 :pepper: :50cal:
Back to our regularly scheduled program.....
shaneman153d
02-03-2008, 23:40
Nobody said your glock won't be reliable if you modify it.
ahem.......
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821042
Yeah if you do anything with your glock you lose reliability. My Meprolites and extended slide release turned mine into a jam-o-matic.
Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2008, 23:52
I suppose the tritium sights could cause a distortion in the space-time vortex and throw off the cycling energy of the slide :wow:
I can't think of very many firearms I have ever owned that I didn't have to modify in some way (big or small) to make them perform the way I wanted to. It could be as little as adding optics or as big as completely reworking the mechanism(s) but if properly done the mods made my guns more useful for their intended purpose
Probably the only exceptions I can think of were iron sighted military rifles or handguns that I left stock for display and collectability
shaneman153d
02-04-2008, 00:11
I suppose the tritium sights could cause a distortion in the space-time vortex and throw off the cycling energy of the slide :wow:
I can't think of very many firearms I have ever owned that I didn't have to modify in some way (big or small) to make them perform the way I wanted to. It could be as little as adding optics or as big as completely reworking the mechanism(s) but if properly done the mods made my guns more useful for their intended purpose
Probably the only exceptions I can think of were iron sighted military rifles or handguns that I left stock for display and collectability
Yep, I've messed around with every firearm I own, trigger job at a minimum. Make it yours.
GlocksNBagels
02-04-2008, 00:53
Once you modify your gun the "monkey" is on YOUR back if the gun ever malfunctions. You will be asked by law enforcement or a judge, "Has this gun EVER been modified in ANY way from its original form?". What if your gun malfunctions (slam fires etc..) and something or someone is hurt? It falls squarely on YOUR shoulders. I don't know what state you're from, but in Nebraska we do not have Castle Doctrine. If you shoot someone in self defense and did not break the law in doing so, you can still be sued. Lets say it was an accidental shooting and you're trying to say that it was a mechanical malfunction with the gun. If it's stock, they can sue the manufacturer (which they would do, go for the deeper pockets). But the manufacturer says "that is not how we made it", then the monkey is on your back. If you want to modify a gun, but a light on it... maybe a little paint on the sites to make them show up a little better... that's it.
Apocalypse_Now
02-04-2008, 00:56
Once you modify your gun the "monkey" is on YOUR back if the gun ever malfunctions. You will be asked, "Has this gun EVER been modified in ANY way?". What if your gun malfunctions (slam fires etc..) and something or someone is hurt? If falls squarely on YOUR shoulders.
Asked by who? Slam fires? Never had one in 3 decades of gunning
GlocksNBagels
02-04-2008, 01:09
Asked by who? Slam fires? Never had one in 3 decades of gunning
When you pull the trigger on a glock, you finish compressing the firing spring and you depress the sear's spring releasing the firing spring to drive the firing pin into the round and fire the gun. So, the only thing keeping the gun from firing is a small piece of metal being pushed up by a spring. Not good. This allows for something called slam firing. Sudden shock to the gun can cause the sear's spring to bounce allowing the firing spring to drive into and fire the round. Sometimes when you load a glock, as soon as the slide goes forward it fires even if your finger is no where near the trigger. On occasion, they have been known to double tap, you rack the slide and it fires twice. This is why for all those great "glock stress tests" they fire 300 rounds through it as fast as they can. They can do that because it's really easy to make a glock a full auto, which is NOT what you want.
Slam firing doesn't happen that often, maybe once every 100,000 rounds and maybe never as long as you own the guns, but the fact that it is possible means I will never give one to a relative.
If you like the idea of a compression firing spring look at the Springfield XD. They've been making guns a long time and know what they're doing. When you rack the slide on an XD, you compress the spring completely, making it a single action only firearm. The most significant thing they did though was put a firing pin block on it, so it will not fire unless you pull the trigger. The barrel is the right size, its a great gun, stock.
Once you modify your gun the "monkey" is on YOUR back if the gun ever malfunctions. You will be asked by law enforcement or a judge.
No I won't. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT CARRY GUNS. *banging head on brick wall*
sigh...
People complain about Glocks not working once they're modified. This gun has ZERO stock springs left in it, a 2.75-pound trigger that has under 2/3 the travel of the stock one, and a fistful of other mods.
I was simply posting a little proof that just because it ain't stock, doesn't mean it isn't going to run when it gets dirty.
If you like the idea of a compression firing spring look at the Springfield XD. They've been making guns a long time and know what they're doing.
Do they even make the XD?
When you pull the trigger on a glock, you finish compressing the firing spring and you depress the sear's spring releasing the firing spring to drive the firing pin into the round and fire the gun. So, the only thing keeping the gun from firing is a small piece of metal being pushed up by a spring. Not good. This allows for something called slam firing. Sudden shock to the gun can cause the sear's spring to bounce allowing the firing spring to drive into and fire the round. Sometimes when you load a glock, as soon as the slide goes forward it fires even if your finger is no where near the trigger. On occasion, they have been known to double tap, you rack the slide and it fires twice. This is why for all those great "glock stress tests" they fire 300 rounds through it as fast as they can. They can do that because it's really easy to make a glock a full auto, which is NOT what you want.
Slam firing doesn't happen that often, maybe once every 100,000 rounds and maybe never as long as you own the guns, but the fact that it is possible means I will never give one to a relative.
If you like the idea of a compression firing spring look at the Springfield XD. They've been making guns a long time and know what they're doing. When you rack the slide on an XD, you compress the spring completely, making it a single action only firearm. The most significant thing they did though was put a firing pin block on it, so it will not fire unless you pull the trigger. The barrel is the right size, its a great gun, stock.
Again...troll talk. The scenario this guy painted is ridiculous. He pulls statistics out of his rear. Where is this far-fetched "what if" documented by any reputable source? It's not and it's not going to happen. As far as XDs go, they are decent pistols. They are not as reliable as Glocks in my considerable experience. Parts are impossible to find. BTW, they are made in Croatia if that matters to you. Springfield services them and that is a positive as Springfield's customer service is outstanding...as is Glock's, of course. And you will be lucky if you don't have to send your XD to Springfield at some point. I've had several and I know. As far as Springfield "being in business a long time", well nothing against Springfield, Inc., they are a fine company. And they make a great 1911, which is their bread and butter, for the money. But they started up in 1974. Not a particularly "long-time". You see, they are not in any way affiliated with the original Springfield Armory, the government arsenal. They simply took the name.
Hickeroar
02-06-2008, 23:35
I had some after market stuff on my G26 for a while. Ended up taking it off since i didn't see a need for it and I liked the idea of "stock." None of it ever caused an issue though. I've put about 7k rounds through my g26 and I've only ever had one failure. It was at about 400 rounds, the gun was stock at that time, got an FTE.
I think Glocks are inherently reliable. Lighter springs are something *I'd* stay away from, but not everyone feels that way. Do what you want. If it IS placing your life in danger in some way, that's your choice.
I have the 'troll monkies' on my back!!!!
But seriously... why keep feeding the monkies? All they do is come back and then throw poo on you...
GlocksNBagels
02-07-2008, 02:18
Modifying a gun is like opening Pandora's box. And BELIEVE me, Pandora is one rough broad!
gaboonviper85
02-07-2008, 03:19
this thread is so bogus and the so called facts by mr.beagles that are embarassingly incorect it just makes me want to drive 15 hours to slap my grandmother.
It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to slam fire a glock...the fireing pin spring is under no tension when the trigger isnt being squeezed...ITS A DOUBLE ACTION PISTOL YOU TARD!
GlocksNBagels
02-07-2008, 03:24
this thread is so bogus and the so called facts by mr.beagles that are embarassingly incorect it just makes me want to drive 15 hours to slap my grandmother.
It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to slam fire a glock...the fireing pin spring is under no tension when the trigger isnt being squeezed...ITS A DOUBLE ACTION PISTOL YOU TARD!
Granny should walk 15 miles to slap you scooter. Notice how you said "virtually". Very interesting choice of words. You left open the possibility that it could happen. Maybe never as long as you own the gun. The fact that it could happen is very concerning. Thank you for your support of my original argument. Jeesh, it's like taking candy from a baby.
gaboonviper85
02-07-2008, 03:32
yeah and its virtually possible for me to eat styrofoam and drink gas and shoot napalm out my *****
Get the hint
Granny should walk 15 miles to slap you scooter. Notice how you said "virtually". Very interesting choice of words. You left open the possibility that it could happen. Maybe never as long as you own the gun. The fact that it could happen is very concerning. Thank you for your support of my original argument. Jeesh, it's like taking candy from a baby.
I understand that your only point in posting - here or other threads - seems to be to provoke people to call you an idiot, argue with you, whatever, but what I don't understand is why that is fun.?????????
I'm curious if anyone has ever been convicted in a court for a shooting based solely on the fact that thier gun was modified, or in other words, if they hadn't modified thier gun they would have gotten off, but it was the modifications that did them in.
I've never been able to find any proof of that. If I could, I think I'd yank the mod back off my gun.
I'm curious if anyone has ever been convicted in a court for a shooting based solely on the fact that thier gun was modified, or in other words, if they hadn't modified thier gun they would have gotten off, but it was the modifications that did them in.
I've never been able to find any proof of that. If I could, I think I'd yank the mod back off my gun.
Based on the cases I've read and followed and as reported by (I believe) Mas A. not long ago, I think that in court it has little to do with the mods and much to do with "your" intentions based on the totality of the circumstances. The questions in the cases covered earlier centered around whether the officer (they were all LE cases) intended to do what he did or whether the firing of the gun was unintentional. If a case could be made that the shooting was not intended (based on testimony, comments by officer, witnesses, etc.), then that action was a problem for the shooter (too light a trigger during adrenaline flow, etc.). What I took away was that if there is a SD shoot, make sure it is intentional. If you make a statement to the effect, "Officer I was able to stop him once he broke into my house and grabbed my wife and was holding him at gunpoint until you arrived, but when he moved, I accidentally pulled the trigger." That is a problem statement. The shoot is no longer a justified shoot. This is a short version of a very interesting topic that has been discussed by many.
Based on the cases I've read and followed and as reported by (I believe) Mas A. not long ago, I think that in court it has little to do with the mods and much to do with "your" intentions based on the totality of the circumstances. The questions in the cases covered earlier centered around whether the officer (they were all LE cases) intended to do what he did or whether the firing of the gun was unintentional. If a case could be made that the shooting was not intended (based on testimony, comments by officer, witnesses, etc.), then that action was was a problem for the shooter (too light a trigger during adrenaline flow, etc.). What I took away was that if there is a SD shoot, make sure it is intentional. If you make a statement to the effect, "Officer I was able to stop him once he broke into my house and grabbed my wife and was holding him at gunpoint until you arrived, but when he moved, I accidentally pulled the trigger." That is a problem statement. The shoot is no longer a justified shoot. This is a short version of a very interesting topic that has been discussed by many.
Ah, cool! Thanks for the help!
I don't mod because I have no reason to, not because I'm afraid of lawsuits. My glocks shoot uber-reliably stock.
ghostrider775
02-10-2008, 08:32
I'm curious if anyone has ever been convicted in a court for a shooting based solely on the fact that thier gun was modified, or in other words, if they hadn't modified thier gun they would have gotten off, but it was the modifications that did them in.
I've never been able to find any proof of that. If I could, I think I'd yank the mod back off my gun.
I think its more of a problem if you're facing some sort of charges from a ND that injured someone. THEN and possibly only then, would mods make any sort of difference.
justinsn95
03-23-2008, 21:38
Damn how cold is it?
i know lol. if it's ever that cold, what you are shooting at is dead, and oh by the way so are you. what is the freezing temp of that lube? probly like -75F
Bill Lumberg
03-24-2008, 06:18
I have no problem with aftermarket parts for competition. But for duty or personal defense, mine stay 100% stock.
Hmmm, what I posted may not have been public info - so I deleted it - sorry about that.
Yeah. Stock glocks run. Modified ones just run much better and faster.:supergrin:
i agree,
if the glock was so perfect out of the box, there would NOT be an entire industry dedicated to making perfection more perfect.
Brilliant logic. Let's see, you're saying if there are plenty of aftermarket parts out there, the primary product isn't good. Dammit, and I was about to buy a honda for my wife. I guess all those spinners, tin can mufflers, glue on and stick on body affects, and the 100's of other aftermarket parts are a clear sign that a stock honda just isn't reliable. I'm glad I read this thread and avoided a serious mistake! Thanks! :rofl:
I am convinced that a Ghost 5.5# connector is better than stock and more reliable than stock. As for a $.25 trigger job, I have some concerns about that.
i agree,
if the glock was so perfect out of the box, there would NOT be an entire industry dedicated to making perfection more perfect.
There are very few mechanical devices in the marketplace that do not have after-market parts suppliers to enhance performance. For Glock specifically, there are very few products that have a bad reputation.
Whether to modify your gun is a personal decision. A practical principle will usually be the intended use of the gun. For competition or range use, modifications are not generally going to be a big issue, if you choose to go that route. If your occupation is such that you are likely to be in a gunfight, then stock should probably be the way to go, for safety reasons.
The legal implications for those of us that are not in professions likely to expose us to a gunfight, the legal implications of a modified gun is not really a big legal issue. According to my research, and 25 years + of experience, the legal implications of a shooting are impacted to a much greater degree to the circumstances surrounding a shooting (or even a discharge) and most of the time to what the shooter says under the stresses of the situation (and by saying anything more than "I would like to speak with my attorney first").
The fact is that that the chances of a gunfight by a law abiding citizen, by someone outside of law enforcement, is extremely small, to the point that it will likely never happen.
Therefore, whether to modify is a personal decision which, in my opinion, should at least give some consideration to the use the gun is put to, and safety.
Responses, of course, are welcome. Even a good "flaming" is sometimes interesting!
Warren in Annapolis
Brilliant logic. Let's see, you're saying if there are plenty of aftermarket parts out there, the primary product isn't good. Dammit, and I was about to buy a honda for my wife. I guess all those spinners, tin can mufflers, glue on and stick on body affects, and the 100's of other aftermarket parts are a clear sign that a stock honda just isn't reliable. I'm glad I read this thread and avoided a serious mistake! Thanks! :rofl:
glocks are not perfect out of the box,
examples:
-Front sights are cheap plastic, apply preassure to them and watch them wiggle.
-trigger pull is lacking.
these are just a few examples.
-if you want to shoot lead , you need another barrel.
dont get me wrong, I love my glocks
but i love them more after i modified them.
although i do like the old but and tired cliche comparing cars to guns.
There are very few mechanical devices in the marketplace that do not have after-market parts suppliers to enhance performance. For Glock specifically, there are very few products that have a bad reputation.
Whether to modify your gun is a personal decision. A practical principle will usually be the intended use of the gun. For competition or range use, modifications are not generally going to be a big issue, if you choose to go that route. If your occupation is such that you are likely to be in a gunfight, then stock should probably be the way to go, for safety reasons.
The legal implications for those of us that are not in professions likely to expose us to a gunfight, the legal implications of a modified gun is not really a big legal issue. According to my research, and 25 years + of experience, the legal implications of a shooting are impacted to a much greater degree to the circumstances surrounding a shooting (or even a discharge) and most of the time to what the shooter says under the stresses of the situation (and by saying anything more than "I would like to speak with my attorney first").
The fact is that that the chances of a gunfight by a law abiding citizen, by someone outside of law enforcement, is extremely small, to the point that it will likely never happen.
Therefore, whether to modify is a personal decision which, in my opinion, should at least give some consideration to the use the gun is put to, and safety.
Responses, of course, are welcome. Even a good "flaming" is sometimes interesting!
Warren in Annapolis
Warren you make very valid points,
but tell me would a lawyer come after me if i had a factort 5 pd trigger or had glock or a qualified gunsmith put a factory 3.5 pound trigger in a pistol?
curious about your thoughts.
There are very few mechanical devices in the marketplace that do not have after-market parts suppliers to enhance performance. For Glock specifically, there are very few products that have a bad reputation.
Whether to modify your gun is a personal decision. A practical principle will usually be the intended use of the gun. For competition or range use, modifications are not generally going to be a big issue, if you choose to go that route. If your occupation is such that you are likely to be in a gunfight, then stock should probably be the way to go, for safety reasons.
The legal implications for those of us that are not in professions likely to expose us to a gunfight, the legal implications of a modified gun is not really a big legal issue. According to my research, and 25 years + of experience, the legal implications of a shooting are impacted to a much greater degree to the circumstances surrounding a shooting (or even a discharge) and most of the time to what the shooter says under the stresses of the situation (and by saying anything more than "I would like to speak with my attorney first").
The fact is that that the chances of a gunfight by a law abiding citizen, by someone outside of law enforcement, is extremely small, to the point that it will likely never happen.
Therefore, whether to modify is a personal decision which, in my opinion, should at least give some consideration to the use the gun is put to, and safety.
Responses, of course, are welcome. Even a good "flaming" is sometimes interesting!
Warren in Annapolis
Those are some good points, but if you apply the statement, "The fact is that that the chances of a gunfight by a law abiding citizen, by someone outside of law enforcement, is extremely small, to the point that it will likely never happen." to concealed carry, then there's no point to carry concealed because, and I quote, "...it will never happen."
To the point, using a gun in a SD shooting that has other than stock parts does expose one to more litigation than having stock parts. Whether it will make a difference in a court or not is debatable.
The typical claim is, that a lighter, smoother trigger lets us shoot more efficiently/effectively in a SD shooting which gives us a better chance of surviving the deadly encounter. The theory being that if we don't survive the gunfight, what would have happened in court is irrelevant.
If we look at top competitors, I don't know of one that competes with a stock trigger. They may not switch from a 5# to a 3.5# but trigger work is certainly done. Dave Sevginy (SP?) stated in an artcle that his gun is stock, and then comes the big word, EXCEPT, for the sights and some light trigger modifications.
Ernst Langdon won one of his IDPA championships with a Sig 220ST that was completely stock, EXCEPT, for some light trigger work. I have one of his 'light' trigger jobs in a Sig 220ST - it makes a difference.
The enhanced shooting proficiency due to 'lightly' modified triggers would certainly carry over into the SD realm in that they let us shoot better there too. Unfortunately, in the SD world, there are extenuating circumstances to consider. If done properly, I do not believe reliability has to be compromised at all, in fact, it may be enhanced.
In the SD world, we have to worry about fingers migrating to light, short stroke triggers under extremely stressful conditions. I realize that many will say that we keep our fingers off the trigger, etc., etc., etc. But it has been demonstrated repeatedly in FOF, real-world scenarios, that fingers, even with highly trained operators, often wind up in triggers before they should. Hence, the lighter, shorter the trigger pull, the more likely a premature discharge could occur. That doesn't mean it will, and switching to a 3.5# connector doesn't necessarily fit the short light criteria, it's still a pretty heavy pull and it's a bit longer than the 5.5# due to the angle of the connector.
Plus, compared to a 1911 with the safety disengaged, even a Glock with a 3.5# connector would be more resistant to an unintentional discharge.
As for the reliability of after market products, I can only speak for one - the Ghost connectors. It has been demonstrated to be more reliable in adverse conditions that the stock connector, equal pull weight or not.
One thing all the experts, or so called experts say is this: If you plan on your Glock for self defense -- don't put SH--" on it...
One thing all the experts, or so called experts say is this: If you plan on your Glock for self defense -- don't put SH--" on it...
All the experts don't say that, not even for trigger mods. If that were true, however, that would pretty much eliminate the use of night sights.
Just one example, Springfield Armory offers a carry package for their XDs that smoothens and lightens the trigger pull. I had it done to one of my XDs; it is buttery smooth and has about a 5 pound pull. I asked them specifically if this was for a SD carry gun; they said yes.
All the experts don't say that, not even for trigger mods. If that were true, however, that would pretty much eliminate the use of night sights.
Just one example, Springfield Armory offers a carry package for their XDs that smoothens and lightens the trigger pull. I had it done to one of my XDs; it is buttery smooth and has about a 5 pound pull. I asked them specifically if this was for a SD carry gun; they said yes.
A small point, perhaps, but an XD is not a Glock.
The larger point is that all experts do not say don't modify a Glock for SD. I know of some that support trigger improvements to a degree; of course, not to pure target/competition levels.
True, an XD is not a Glock, but the principle applies - SA is an expert that modifies triggers for SD use as others modify triggers in Glocks for SD use.
MSgt Dotson
03-24-2008, 11:01
I rather like the small/light takeup int eh G34/35 triggers....predictable.
It would be nice if we could easily eliminate the 1/4" of overtravel inherent in the design, with same reliability.
SA is an expert that modifies triggers for SD use as others modify triggers in Glocks for SD use.
And lessee...SA has been doing that for how many years now? In fact, making the XD line for how many?
And lessee...SA has been doing that for how many years now? In fact, making the XD line for how many?
What's your point?
Point is that many, many years of reliable operation with almost no changes to existing models speaks for quality of design.
A company that changes constantly, offers a long list of factory mods and "upgrades", has a harder time demonstrating a high level of reliability. (IN MY OPINION, only)
One my sons became enamored with the XD line, has been using and carrying for a couple of years now, I guess. We confer, I don't try to influence his decisions, I just listen to what he tells me about the line. Didn't say I agree with his decisions, only that I don't try to influence.
Nor will I you. If that's what you like, then that's what you should own, shoot, and carry, if you do that.
Claymore 51
03-24-2008, 13:00
Some of us like me are mechanically challenged and can't do much changing. I did get night sights on and that was with the help of people on here.
Point is that many, many years of reliable operation with almost no changes to existing models speaks for quality of design.
A company that changes constantly, offers a long list of factory mods and "upgrades", has a harder time demonstrating a high level of reliability. (IN MY OPINION, only)
One my sons became enamored with the XD line, has been using and carrying for a couple of years now, I guess. We confer, I don't try to influence his decisions, I just listen to what he tells me about the line. Didn't say I agree with his decisions, only that I don't try to influence.
Nor will I you. If that's what you like, then that's what you should own, shoot, and carry, if you do that.
I believe you've completely misunderstood me. I'm carrying a G19 right now. I haven't carried an XD in 5 years. My point was simply that there are experts out there that don't condemn trigger jobs, SA is just one example that I was personally familiar with.
But, if the XD example bothers you, here's a Glock example. I just installed a Ghost connector in my G-19, and replaced the stock sights, which I really don't like, with Trijicon night sights. Here's the result:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2358602394_e83a470ef4_m.jpg
The pic is a close up of the head of a B-27 target. The right and left hits occurred while zeroing the rear Trijicon. There are five consecutive shots in the center of the tape. The dime is for comparison.
I was shooting from a two-handed 'I' stance, using WWB ammo, shooting at 15 feet in an indoor range with less than desirable lighting.
While others may be able to do this readily with a fully stock gun, this is significantly better than I personally can do with a stock gun. And yes it was slow fire, but still it speaks to the capability of the gun, setup, and shooter combo.
I wasn't comparing Glocks to XDs, I was simply saying that not all experts say leave it alone and second that hardware changes can make a difference in performance.
MIch_Packer
03-24-2008, 13:32
Because I know it will run.
And right now it's too cold outside to run lube. I've tried dry lube but my gun runs fine without any lube. No meaningful wear either. Unless I told you you wouldn't know I ran it dry.
Mobil One doesn't freeze (or any other premium synthetic oil), and stays where you put it.
That's great shooting!
Thanks, but in all honesty, I suspect there are guys on the board that can make me look like a beginner. As you put it, "...many years of reliable operation with almost no changes to existing models speaks for quality of design."
Glocks work! Of course I've tweaked mine a bit, but I have every confidence that the parts I've used will only make it better without compromising reliability.
MIch_Packer
03-24-2008, 13:39
Glocks work just like them come from the factory why change anything.
Because they can run better when a certain purpose is the goal. From the factory they are one size fits all. For competition they are race guns and need to be tweaked. We don't shoot a lot of WWB ammo, Gold Dots or Hydra Shoks. Most of us shoot custom ammo and that is a change from what the Glock was designed for.
Because they can run better when a certain purpose is the goal. From the factory they are one size fits all. For competition they are race guns and need to be tweaked. We don't shoot a lot of WWB ammo, Gold Dots or Hydra Shoks. Most of us shoot custom ammo and that is a change from what the Glock was designed for.
I'm confused. Are you saying Glocks are designed for custom ammo? I thought they were likely designed for NATO ammo specs????
I shoot tons of WWB in my guns. I saw a pic of Julie G. (now sponsered by S&W, sob...) and she was loading WWB into her M&P.
Stevereno
03-24-2008, 21:46
I put better sights on mine, and LIGHTLY, polish the feed ramps with a dremmel tool. That's it! 100% reliability with my G-17 for 13 years, and 100% reliability from my G-27 for 4 years. 5,000 rounds throught the 17, 2,000 through the 27 without a hiccup.
Stevereno
03-24-2008, 21:50
the stock-Glock sights are rubbish. I believe that is because of some government regulation involving inter-continentantal shipping, or so I've heard. In any instance, the stock Glock sights are the worst part of the pistol, and must be replaced at once, upon getting a Glock.
Tennessee Slim
03-25-2008, 07:38
..."Glock Perfection",....is "perfect" for only one person,...Gaston Glock!....
My hunch is that if he thought they were perfect, there'd have been no Gen 2 and Gen 3 Glocks.
hikerpaddler
03-26-2008, 19:03
For duty, I haven't found anything that beats a stock glock with night sights. For modified competition that is markedly different from police work, there is no end to the modifications available that may help your competitiveness.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.