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griggrt
02-03-2008, 13:44
I will be commissioning in a little over a year and I have a few questions.

1) Is there any way to get a carry permit to carry on base?(I will be a security forces officer)

2)If answer to #1 is NO, can I keep my handguns at home if I live on base?

3)What do I do if I want to conceal carry off base and I am coming on base(if I live on base)?

Thanks in advance

deadday
02-03-2008, 13:50
1. No concealed carry on post unless acting in official capacity.

2. Yes, but most posts require them to be registered with the PM

3. Don't tell anybody. (not advocating breaking the law here. If you want to safely and legally transport your weapon from your home to the gate, and from the gate back to your home, get a safe for your vehicle. Before you pull into the gate, stop on the side of the road, weapon in safe. Enter. When leaving post, weapon goes in safe, leave post, pull off to side of road, holster weapon, move on.)




drew

torrejon224
02-03-2008, 13:55
NO concealed carry on any military installation. Base housing depends on the installation commander, some require that you store any POW (personally owned weapon) at the SF Armory, carrying from town on to base is iffy, random vehicle searches are a real possibility and if you create any type of suspicion you will be searched and your screwed. Best bet is to find out the rules when you hit wherever your assigned and abide by them and always remember that a military installation is a lot different from the civilian world especially in todays environment.

crazypilot
02-03-2008, 13:57
The only people I've seen to get a permit to carry on base are OSI.

griggrt
02-03-2008, 14:14
The only people I've seen to get a permit to carry on base are OSI.

Thats what I have heard, I was just wondering if there was anyway around that.



Thanks for your replies.

deadday
02-03-2008, 14:20
Thats what I have heard, I was just wondering if there was anyway around that.



Thanks for your replies.

Nope.




drew:wedgie:

crazypilot
02-03-2008, 15:00
Nope.




drew:wedgie:
Unless you're really close to the base commander:whistling:. He's the one that has to sign the form.

deadday
02-03-2008, 15:28
Unless you're really close to the base commander:whistling:. He's the one that has to sign the form.

<------way to low on the food chain for that to happen....I did ask the Surgeon General about it (well, the acting SG at the time) and she said that she didn't think it was a good idea, especially in a WTU...




drew

DJ Niner
02-03-2008, 22:01
(snip)

3. Don't tell anybody. (not advocating breaking the law here. If you want to safely and legally transport your weapon from your home to the gate, and from the gate back to your home, get a safe for your vehicle. Before you pull into the gate, stop on the side of the road, weapon in safe. Enter. When leaving post, weapon goes in safe, leave post, pull off to side of road, holster weapon, move on.)




drewI don't think that will do it, either. If the safe is inside the passenger compartment, and you have access, it will be considered a concealed weapon in the vehicle. Loaded or not won't matter.

AFAIK, the only way to legally transport weapons on-base (home-to-gate or gate-to-home) is to have the weapon unloaded, cased, and not accessible to the vehicle occupants (usually in the trunk). This can present a problem with small-ish regular-cab pickup trucks, as there is no trunk and you can reach everywhere in the cab with a little stretching, so be aware of this vehicle-specific problem if you drive one.

meangenedrlove
02-03-2008, 22:18
I don't think that will do it, either. If the safe is inside the passenger compartment, and you have access, it will be considered a concealed weapon in the vehicle. Loaded or not won't matter.

AFAIK, the only way to legally transport weapons on-base (home-to-gate or gate-to-home) is to have the weapon unloaded, cased, and not accessible to the vehicle occupants (usually in the trunk). This can present a problem with small-ish regular-cab pickup trucks, as there is no trunk and you can reach everywhere in the cab with a little stretching, so be aware of this vehicle-specific problem if you drive one.

Also, here at Cannon (not sure about other bases) there is a local instruction to **edited** CAFB 30-101 **edited** (had incorrect Regulation #) that states whenever you are going to transport a weapon on base, you need to call the L.E. desk and notify them when, where, and how you'll be transporting the weapon on the installation.

Also, the random searches that happen at the gate make it a very bad idea to "not tell anyone" because if you get searched and you haven't called the L.E. desk to notify, you are in violation of an AFI which could bring another set of problems into your life depending on the persons carrying out the search.

deadday
02-04-2008, 04:02
I don't think that will do it, either. If the safe is inside the passenger compartment, and you have access, it will be considered a concealed weapon in the vehicle. Loaded or not won't matter.

AFAIK, the only way to legally transport weapons on-base (home-to-gate or gate-to-home) is to have the weapon unloaded, cased, and not accessible to the vehicle occupants (usually in the trunk). This can present a problem with small-ish regular-cab pickup trucks, as there is no trunk and you can reach everywhere in the cab with a little stretching, so be aware of this vehicle-specific problem if you drive one.

PM here says it's ok so long as it is a locking container, but that will obviously vary from place to place...Calling the MPs everytime you want to move your weapons? That's just nuts...



drew

ETA- about the random checks. An unnamed person with the security company here gave me the 'keep your mouth shut idea'. I won't get into specifics on their policies here, but if you PM with some kind of Creds, we can discuss further...

ETA2- What is an AFI? I'm assuming it's the AF equivalent to the AR-Army Regulation

md2lgyk
02-04-2008, 09:50
AFI - Air Force Instruction

deadday
02-04-2008, 10:00
AFI - Air Force Instruction

Gracias!

ks farmboy
02-06-2008, 02:57
at all of the bases i have been stationed, the rules have been the same.

(1) you cannot carry on base. you are supposed to have your gun in the back of your vehicle unloaded and in a case when travelling on base. you are also supposed to go straight from point a to point b.

(2) you are allowed to keep your weapons at your base house, but you are supposed to inventory them with the sp's. i lived on base for two years, never had my vehicle searched, and had kept guns at my base house. for me, there is no way im telling someone that i dont know what guns i own. that is ridiculous to me. to fill the form out correctly, you are supposed to have your supervisor sign it, your flight chief, your OIC, your commander, the base commander and it is kept on file with the SP'S. ill be damned if i tell all of them what guns i own and where they are kept at my house. storing them at your house--you are supposed to have them locked up (out of reach if you dont have a safe), and the ammo is supposed to be kept in a seperate room.
(3) if you CCW off base and are coming on, you are required to unload your gun and place it in a case in the back of your vehicle with your ammo stored elsewhere. once on base, you are supposed to go directly to your house. going off base is the exact opposite. you cannot have it loaded until you get past the gate. a CCW means nothing to the USAF.

ravenkeeper98
02-06-2008, 03:37
at all of the bases i have been stationed, the rules have been the same.

(1) you cannot carry on base. you are supposed to have your gun in the back of your vehicle unloaded and in a case when travelling on base. you are also supposed to go straight from point a to point b.

(2) you are allowed to keep your weapons at your base house, but you are supposed to inventory them with the sp's. i lived on base for two years, never had my vehicle searched, and had kept guns at my base house. for me, there is no way im telling someone that i dont know what guns i own. that is ridiculous to me. to fill the form out correctly, you are supposed to have your supervisor sign it, your flight chief, your OIC, your commander, the base commander and it is kept on file with the SP'S. ill be damned if i tell all of them what guns i own and where they are kept at my house. storing them at your house--you are supposed to have them locked up (out of reach if you dont have a safe), and the ammo is supposed to be kept in a seperate room.
(3) if you CCW off base and are coming on, you are required to unload your gun and place it in a case in the back of your vehicle with your ammo stored elsewhere. once on base, you are supposed to go directly to your house. going off base is the exact opposite. you cannot have it loaded until you get past the gate. a CCW means nothing to the USAF.

That's why I live off base. Also, if you are bringing a registered firearm back on to the base, you are to inform the gate guard that you have a registered firearm in your vehicle, and that you are proceeding directly to the place of storage, ie.. base housing or armoury. Don't be surprized if your followed.

Heck one time when I did live on base (in the dorms), I had got back from shooting with a friend. I kept the pistol in his safe at his off base house, but I still had the target in my back seat. I got waived through, but had a SP car pull in behind me as I parked in the dorms, SP got out and asked if I had a firearm on me, because the target was noticed in my car. Just tild him that it is stored off base. He said ok and left. I was surprised I didn't get searched.


I work with a guy who also has his SC CWP and it looks like a driver's licence. The gate was doing a 2 photo ID check, he pulls out his drivers licence, the CWP was under it. The SP askes, oh you have 2 licences? His reply, no, its a CWP. The SP actually backed up and put his hand on his side arm. He said, relax dude, its not on me, and besides, a person with a CWP would be the least likely to do anything. lol

deadday
02-06-2008, 11:30
I keep my CHL behind all other forms of ID (CAC, TDL, TCLEOSE Card, then CHL) for this exact reason, nobody needs to see, nobody needs to know I have it unless I'm stopped by a LEO.

The rules you listed sound very similar to the Army regs I've encountered except for declaring the weapon at the gate. And while I did have issues with the registration, failure to do so, and being caught results if permanent revocation of on-post housing priveledges at that installation (though it can follow you when you PCS if you really piss off Garrison Command.



drew

ks farmboy
02-06-2008, 14:54
That's why I live off base. Also, if you are bringing a registered firearm back on to the base, you are to inform the gate guard that you have a registered firearm in your vehicle, and that you are proceeding directly to the place of storage, ie.. base housing or armoury. Don't be surprized if your followed.

i live off base now as well.
as for telling the gate guards that you have a gun, EGLIN AFB does not require that. im about 99% sure that they say just proceed to your residence. it say nothing of telling the guards. if you are asked to have your vehicle searched, you sure as hell better tell them before they find it. (if they do)

93GT
02-06-2008, 15:43
I was MC security forces at NSB Bangor and base housing was just inside the gate at the time. I just had to take firearms down to the base police station, fill out paper work with the serial number on it and keep a copy with the firearm when coming through the gate. I never had to keep it in the armory, notify the gate guard unless searched, and I was searched about every 7 or 8 times I came through the gate. I stored them in my house and never thought twice about it. The policy didn't change when 9/11 happened and that is on a strategic weapons facility. It was different on every other base that I have been on, but then again I have not lived on base since then so I have no reason to bring it on and off base. Each base will most likely be different even in the same service.

ravenkeeper98
02-07-2008, 04:27
i live off base now as well.
as for telling the gate guards that you have a gun, EGLIN AFB does not require that. im about 99% sure that they say just proceed to your residence. it say nothing of telling the guards. if you are asked to have your vehicle searched, you sure as hell better tell them before they find it. (if they do)


I'm not sure you have to declare, but heard its better to just say it, that way they get you going on your way, would want to keep you from storing them in a timely manner.

I never had to worry, always lived off base when I started to own my own guns.

Morris
02-09-2008, 01:38
For some reason, my beloved USAF is frightened of guns. Doubt me? Other than CAT As, how often do folks actually hit the range? Annoyed the hell out of me for all the times I went on and off McChord. I should note that it got interesting during my tour with the adjacent ANG group (Camp Murray). Let's see, there was a time when my CATM NCOIC was at VAQ and forgot his cocked and locked under the pillow and the maid went in to clean. I remember some multi-striped skycop coming out to North Fort to chat with him about the discovery.

Here you have folks hauling around enough fuel to create a small path of destruction, shifting bombs around or even moving nukes. And you can't trust them to carry CWP off duty but on post? Insane thinking. Sure as hell didn't stop the kid at Fairchild a bunch of years back.

Then there was the time I got off duty as a FT cop and flew to McChord. Gate guards got all sideways because I was in my POV but in uniform and looking to check in my duty gun to the armory. Of course, it was a beautiful nickel finish P226 that was spotless on Friday. Retrieved it Sunday after noon and it was filthy. Had a come to Jesus chat with the desk sergeant who lied and said it was never fired. Out come my badge, creds and business card which said "firearms instructor." Also comes a request for the OIC to contact me. A short time later, accepted an apology from the OIC who admitted that someone had obviously shot my duty pistol. Carried concealed to VAQ after that in violation of the regs.

Skycop1
02-09-2008, 10:46
Cross train to OSI the fist chance you get. Then you can CCW your Sig 228 24/7 any place you like. Many of us obtain a state CCW as well so we can also carry an additional weapon (though officially we are not authorized to carry a civilian weapon while on duty or on base).

I would advise living off base. I have seen commanders confiscate registered weapons (temporarily) for non violent domestic arguments and things like that. It is very difficult to do that if you reside off base (they won't know you have them nor have authority to check your home). Some in the Air Force are unrealistically paranoid around weapons. Things are getting better but there are still some in key positions who can make it difficult for you. Like I said, I would cross train to OSI as soon as possible.

ravenkeeper98
02-09-2008, 20:44
For some reason, my beloved USAF is frightened of guns.

I know, last time I checked the Air Force was a branch of the Armed Services.

When it comes down to brass tacks, our job is to kill our enemy. The military will naturally draw individuals with an interest in firearms. I'm still surprized at how many people in the Air Force are so touchy when it comes to firearms. I'm in Korea right now and the internet filters are worse here than in SC. Just try to go to any website with the word firearm/gun/weapon, or any major firearm manufacture in it, 90% of the time it will be blocked. Heck, I was pricing weapon lights the other day, could not even get to the Insight Technology page, that was blocked. I'm surprized the NRA homepage is not blocked.

Funny thing too, the whole new way of thinking the Air Force started, "our warrior ethos" Just as long as you don't grab/ or have an interest in guns, we fight with paper and microchips. Paleeeessse!!

ravenkeeper98
02-09-2008, 20:48
Cross train to OSI the fist chance you get. Like I said, I would cross train to OSI as soon as possible.

I would love to, but my career field won't let me go. Probably I've been in too long +17 years.

Also wish CATM was it's own separate AFSC still.

meangenedrlove
02-12-2008, 18:49
You're lucky you've never had your vehicle searched. Mine has gotten searched at Cannon about once every 4-6 months...once I was searched twice within 2 weeks. I guess some bases do more random searches than others.

ravenkeeper98
02-13-2008, 00:47
You're lucky you've never had your vehicle searched. Mine has gotten searched at Cannon about once every 4-6 months...once I was searched twice within 2 weeks. I guess some bases do more random searches than others.

That's the only base I have ever had a vehicle searched at. It is also the base which the gate guard followed me back to the dorms because he saw a target in my back seat.

I was stationed there (the Air Forces best kept secret) for 7 years, in a row.

1993-2000, I was in the 523FS with F-111F's, 429ESC with EF-111A's and the 522FS with Block 30 F-16's

BrokenArrow
02-13-2008, 11:34
Times change...

In the 70s/80s we were allowed to shoot privately owned weapons on the CATM ranges if they were not busy and we cleared it w them first. No way are you doing that anywhere today unless it's an organized/sanctioned event for Police Week or something like that.

Was allowed to keep my bows and arrows in my dormitory room then; can't do that today either. Can't even have a knife in them now!?

Today, weapons going in/out the gate have to be unloaded and cased separate from the ammo. Weapons cannot be left unattended/unsecured in your vehicle. If you are visiting, say going to the BX/Commissary, you cannot leave it in your car while you shop. You must secure it in the armory or a friend's quarters (not a dormitory).

It can be a big deal (federal felony) if you are caught in violation.

meangenedrlove
02-13-2008, 19:05
I was stationed there (the Air Forces best kept secret) for 7 years, in a row.

1993-2000, I was in the 523FS with F-111F's, 429ESC with EF-111A's and the 522FS with Block 30 F-16's


I was in the 522FS with the block 50 F-16s, but I've been the AMXS/MXG Resource Advisor for over 2 years now. I'm going back to Korea in 3 weeks, then on to Kadena. My roommate at Kunsan in 1999-2000 was at Cannon for a long time and worked the EF-111's, I believe he was an Avionics troop. His name is Dwayne Toney, he grew up in England and has a British accent...did you know him?

ravenkeeper98
02-14-2008, 04:30
I was in the 522FS with the block 50 F-16s, but I've been the AMXS/MXG Resource Advisor for over 2 years now. I'm going back to Korea in 3 weeks, then on to Kadena. My roommate at Kunsan in 1999-2000 was at Cannon for a long time and worked the EF-111's, I believe he was an Avionics troop. His name is Dwayne Toney, he grew up in England and has a British accent...did you know him?


Heck yeah I knew him!!

Where are you going to in Korea? I'm TDY right now at Kunsan, we are living up on Wolf Pack Park.

I was at Kunsan around the same time 2000-2001 Nov-Nov.

Ragnar
02-14-2008, 10:54
I will be commissioning in a little over a year and I have a few questions.

1) Is there any way to get a carry permit to carry on base?(I will be a security forces officer)

2)If answer to #1 is NO, can I keep my handguns at home if I live on base?

3)What do I do if I want to conceal carry off base and I am coming on base(if I live on base)?

Thanks in advance


1. No, unless your duties require it. AFOSI, for instance, carries concealed.

2. Yes. Depending on base commander policy, you may have to register them.

3. Put the weapon in a locked container with ammo separated.

rktman26
02-14-2008, 11:04
Best piece of advice I would give is to get a copy of the base regulation for the base you are stationed on. Read it and become very familiar with its contents. Comply with it completely, and keep a copy of the regualtion in your vehicle.
The regulations should be easy to obtain. On the base I'm stationed on, it's available on their unsecured website, for everyone in the world to read.

.40 caliber
02-14-2008, 11:28
The post I am stationed at is a little more laid back I guess. I keep my weapons in housing, but had to register it with the PMO. When I return to base, its in the box with the loaded magazines inside. I also keep a copy of the weapon registation card with me just in case I am about to get searched.
All they really care about is if your weapon is registered properly, if not it sucks to be you.

But, I drove for the post comander for almost 2 years so I was "in there". He is SF, so he loves weapons and that was all we taked about on the road, that and sports. Never had a problem with the gate guards because they knew me and that I drove for the Colonel, especially the ones who just retired from the Army and got jobs as gate guards.

meangenedrlove
02-14-2008, 20:55
Heck yeah I knew him!!

Where are you going to in Korea? I'm TDY right now at Kunsan, we are living up on Wolf Pack Park. I'm here with the 79th EFS (AMU) from Shaw.

I was at Kunsan around the same time 2000-2001 Nov-Nov.

I'm going to Kunsan again, my RNLTD is 10 March. I'll be in QA. Last time I was there May 1999-May 2000 I was in the 80th FS. I haven't talked to Dwayne for a while, but he's on my MSN Messenger contacts list (in fact he just logged in). Last I knew he was living in Virginia (he married a Korean girl before he left Korea in Feb 2000) they're still together and have at least one daughter that has got to be about 8 years old now.

Shaw, huh? Do know anyone on the Demo Team? One of my good friends is one of the APG flight chiefs or maybe in production now.

ks farmboy
02-14-2008, 22:38
In the 70s/80s we were allowed to shoot privately owned weapons on the CATM ranges if they were not busy and we cleared it w them first. No way are you doing that anywhere today unless it's an organized/sanctioned event for Police Week or something like that.

some bases allow you to still shoot at their range. Hurlbert Field has a shooting club on base. as long as your gun is unloaded and seperate from your ammo, you are good to bring it on base to the range.

BrokenArrow
02-15-2008, 11:00
some bases allow you to still shoot at their range. Hurlbert Field has a shooting club on base. as long as your gun is unloaded and seperate from your ammo, you are good to bring it on base to the range.

I know; Vandenberg AFB, CA has a great Rod & Gun Club (archery too). I don't mean at a gun club range or something like that. I mean we used to be able to use the same CATM range they Q the military troops on w the M9, M4, etc.

bangelo
03-12-2008, 11:08
If you do keep it in the armory, make sure the forms are filled out correctly and signed by every one. Mine were messed up and it took me 2 weeks to get my H&K USP out of the armory. I had to talk to my commander, the SF commander, my group commander, and then all three of them talked.

Turns out that some how they thought my H&K was used in a domestic despute and it was a big mess.

MrMurphy
03-12-2008, 16:10
If you're a brand new SF officer, welcome to hell.

Let us know where you're going, you just might run into a few of us. I'm out in USAFE.

USMC1369
03-12-2008, 16:55
I will be commissioning in a little over a year and I have a few questions.

1) Is there any way to get a carry permit to carry on base?(I will be a security forces officer)

2)If answer to #1 is NO, can I keep my handguns at home if I live on base?

3)What do I do if I want to conceal carry off base and I am coming on base(if I live on base)?

Thanks in advance

No.

Up to the base commander.

Don't. It's Illegal.

arodgers
03-12-2008, 17:42
While I live off base, the shooting range I normally shoot at is ON base and the only other one near by is just on the other side of base out the back gate. 20 min drive if you go through the base, probably an hour if you go around. I've never even thought twice about bringing weapons onto base and I've been here 4 years and only been searched once... while leaving base.