Just a heads-up...and some future hope..... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DonL
02-09-2008, 00:06
Heller's attorneys had this to say about machineguns in their brief that was just recently filed with the Supreme Court in the D.C. case.

The Solicitor General greatly overstates the D.C. Circuit decision's implications for laws governing machineguns. Courts understand that the decision below striking down the handguns, not machine guns." Somerville v. United States, 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 412 at 4(W.D. Mich. Jan. 3, 2008). And unlike the laws at issue here banning handguns, federal law does not ban the private possession of machineguns, of which approximately 120,000 are in lawful civilian possession. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Selected Findings: Guns Used in Crime 4 (July 1995), http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf (240,000 registered machineguns are in civilian use) (citing BATF, Statistics Listing of Registered Weapons, Apr. 19, 1989).

"ATF's interest is not in determining why a law-abiding individual wishes to possess a certain firearm or device, but rather in ensuring that such objects are not criminally misused." Testimony of Stephen Higgins, BATF Director, in Hearings on H.R. 641 and Related Bills, House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Crime, 98th Congress 111 (1986). To that end, federal law subjects machinegun possession to the same stringent regulatory regime considered in Miller. 26 U.S.C. Sec 5801, et seq.; 27 C.F.R. Secs. 478.98, 479.84, et seq. These regulations work: "it is highly unusual-and in fact, it is very, very rare," that legally owned machineguns are criminally misused. Higgins, supra, at 117.

Had Miller possessed a machinegun, this Court would presumably have had little trouble finding that the weapon had militia utility. The Court might nonetheless have held that machineguns fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment's protection as they were not "in common use at the time" such that civilians could be expected to have possessed them for ordinary lawful purposes. Miller, 307 U.S. at 179

And even if this Court had accepted that some machineguns are protected by the Second Amendment, their current tight regulation under federal law could well pass any level of scrutiny devised by this Court for the regulation of protected arms. Of course, Respondent's simple revolver is no machinegun, and the types of restrictions imposed by the National Firearms Act - including an FBI background check, $200 tax, authorization from one's local chief law enforcement officer, and a statement of "reasonable necessity" - would be inappropriate to apply to a common handgun.

But this case is not about what regulations ought to govern machineguns. The question is whether the arms at issue - including handguns - are protected at all. They are.


From Congress' Amici Curiae Brief

The Second Amendment refers to the right to "keep" arms (such as at home) as well as to "bear" arms (meaning to carry them). Protected arms include commonly-kept firearms that one can keep and carry for lawfull pruposes, such as ordinary rifles, handguns, and shotguns, and not crew-served or heavy weapons.

Northalius
03-06-2008, 10:05
The Court might nonetheless have held that machineguns fall outside the scope of the Second Amendment's protection as they were not "in common use at the time" such that civilians could be expected to have possessed them for ordinary lawful purposes. Miller, 307 U.S. at 179

???

The Glock 17 and AR-15 (among other SEMI-AUTO pistols and rifles) weren't "in common use at the time", either... does that mean they don't fall under protection of the 2nd Amendment? Wow.

Whoever says such things, is totally clueless. That's a pathetic argument. They must have guts to speak such idiocy in front of those with actual well-working brains. :)

Anyone who attempts to use pathetic excuses like this, is a deceiver, and a liar. They know the founding fathers would mean ANY gun, no matter how they changed in the future. PERIOD. No BSing around it.

The Second Amendment refers to the right to "keep" arms (such as at home) as well as to "bear" arms (meaning to carry them). Protected arms include commonly-kept firearms that one can keep and carry for lawfull pruposes, such as ordinary rifles, handguns, and shotguns, and not crew-served or heavy weapons.

^ :rofl: ^

Says who? A clueless nitwit that doesn't know what they're talking, is who. I can't believe there're actually traitors to the true context of the 2nd Amendment around today that'd spread such lies.

The 2nd Amendment refers to any firearm, especially those carried by military soldiers on the battlefield. This is the literal context of the 2nd Amendment. A militia (made up of private citizens) carries military weapons. That's why it's called "militia."

See the similarity? Militia - Military

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Sorry, but it doesn't specify which arms, so it means all of them are protected under this Amendment... as much as some'd like to squirm out of this, with total lies and deceptions.

The founding fathers carried the exact same firearm their military carried into battle, during the Revolutionary War; thus, everyone knows today that they (the founding fathers) would also agree, if they were alive today, that the ownership of fully automatic weapons (such as the M-16, AK-47, Glock 18, etc.) are ALL protected under the 2nd Amendment. Why? Because it gives citizens the power to fight back against their own military, if ever the government becomes tyrannical and corrupt, and abuses the power of our military, to be used in attempting to take the peoples' liberty away from them by force.

^ This is the SOLE reason why the 2nd Amendment was written! ^

To protect us from the greatest criminal threat of all: DOMESTIC CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT

So, any restriction upon our gun RIGHTS (not privileges), is breaking the 2nd Amendment, and thus literally breaking the law. Anyone involved in such criminal act should be prosecuted and jailed immediately, for treason against the American people, and a threat to their protection of self-liberty.

The 2nd Amendment was put in place to protect the people from their own government (just like all the other rights written in the Bill of Rights), and therefore, the government has NO say in what is to be restricted in it.

Anyone speaking of the 2nd Amendment meaning for protection against private criminals alone, is clueless, and doesn't know the literal context of the 2nd Amendment, whatsoever; or does, and is simply a traitor.

mitchshrader
03-06-2008, 10:53
far as i can tell 'keep' means own and store, and 'bear' means carry.

if you can carry it you can own it. if you can't, that's a different category.