Form 1 question--Can you register a suppressor in more than one caliber?

[MakeMineaP99]

Thanks!

[sarge]

Since you are talking about a Form 1, Application to make and register a firearm, I would assume that you are making a suppressor. With that thought in mind, I would F1 it for the largest caliber that it can be used on, and then it could also be used for smaller calibers, albeit probably not as effective as a suppressor made for the smaller caliber.

For instance, if it is large enough to shoot a .308 through, F1 it as .308 and then you should be able to use it on any thing smaller.

Since I have never made a suppressor, take this info for exactly what you paid for it.

[r2kba]

Thanks!
...


No.

What would the point be anyways?

[RWBlue]

...
What would the point be anyways?

It would be interesting to register a short tube (9mm length) with significant diameter for say 45ACP or 300WM or 45/70.
Design multiple sets of baffles/wipes and LCDs and add on tubes.

Then one tube ($) could be used for every caliber under the sun.
I don't know if this would be legal or not.

Since I am not a machinist, I am restricted to pay my fees and buying standard tubes.

[r2kba]

It would be interesting to register a short tube (9mm length) with significant diameter for say 45ACP or 300WM or 45/70.
Design multiple sets of baffles/wipes and LCDs and add on tubes.

Then one tube ($) could be used for every caliber under the sun.
I don't know if this would be legal or not.

Since I am not a machinist, I am restricted to pay my fees and buying standard tubes.


I dont think ATF would approve it without one specific caliber listed. And, if you are making a .45 diamater can, why would you bother to list 9mm when, you know it will work with a 9mm round either way, and theres nothing illegal about putting it on a 9mm and firing it anyways?

Theres no way to market a can with different size baffles and or wipes because you can not be in possession of suppressor parts in this mannor. Having other tubes and such laying around is not legal.

[MakeMineaP99]

I dont think ATF would approve it without one specific caliber listed. And, if you are making a .45 diamater can, why would you bother to list 9mm when, you know it will work with a 9mm round either way, and theres nothing illegal about putting it on a 9mm and firing it anyways?

That was the basis for the question, which you've answered. One does not need to register a .45 suppressor in both .45 and 9mm to use it on both firearms, provided it was registered as a .45 can originally.

Theres no way to market a can with different size baffles and or wipes because you can not be in possession of suppressor parts in this mannor. Having other tubes and such laying around is not legal.

Understood, ATF's position about having unregistered suppressor parts is well known.



......

[RWBlue]

I dont think ATF would approve it without one specific caliber listed. And, if you are making a .45 diamater can, why would you bother to list 9mm when, you know it will work with a 9mm round either way, and theres nothing illegal about putting it on a 9mm and firing it anyways?

I have a 45acp suppressor. Based on everything I have read, I will have a difficult time getting it to cycle on a 9mm like a Glock.


Theres no way to market a can with different size baffles and or wipes because you can not be in possession of suppressor parts in this manner. Having other tubes and such laying around is not legal.

Correct, as a end consumer, I can not get my hands on extra parts/tubes...

BUT, if you are skilled enough to BUILD your own suppressor, you are legally able to have extra parts.

Doing something unique in this manner would be pushing the edges of the envelope. It may not be worth being a pioneer in this way.
IF I was going to try something like this, I would make the tubes fit only one way. The primary tube fits the LCD/LID. The primary tube fits the add on tubes. The add on tubes will only fit the primary tube not the LCD/LID. This way the registered tube MUST be used if any other tube is used.

[CAR-AR-M16]

I have a 45acp suppressor. Based on everything I have read, I will have a difficult time getting it to cycle on a 9mm like a Glock.



Correct, as a end consumer, I can not get my hands on extra parts/tubes...

BUT, if you are skilled enough to BUILD your own suppressor, you are legally able to have extra parts.
Doing something unique in this manner would be pushing the edges of the envelope. It may not be worth being a pioneer in this way.
IF I was going to try something like this, I would make the tubes fit only one way. The primary tube fits the LCD/LID. The primary tube fits the add on tubes. The add on tubes will only fit the primary tube not the LCD/LID. This way the registered tube MUST be used if any other tube is used.

A licensed manufacturer (07/02 FFL/SOT) can have parts, but an individual building on a Form 1 cannot have ANY extra parts. If you want to change something in the suppressor that you built you would have to destroy the old parts and then make the new parts.

From the ATF NFA Handbook, chapter 2 page 16:
NOTE: the language in the definition of silencer contains no provisions that permit an owner of a registered silencer to possess spare or replacement components for the silencer. However, licensed manufacturers who are SOTs may possess spare silencer components in conjunction with their manufacturing operations.http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter2.pdf

[MakeMineaP99]

A licensed manufacturer (07/02 FFL/SOT) can have parts, but an individual building on a Form 1 cannot have ANY extra parts. If you want to change something in the suppressor that you built you would have to destroy the old parts and then make the new parts.

From the ATF NFA Handbook, chapter 2 page 16:
NOTE: the language in the definition of silencer contains no provisions that permit an owner of a registered silencer to possess spare or replacement components for the silencer. However, licensed manufacturers who are SOTs may possess spare silencer components in conjunction with their manufacturing operations.http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter2.pdf

Let me be a little more specific. Paperwork is approved to make a suppressor in .45 and the .45 can is made. After about a year, the .45 can wants to become a 9mm can.

Would it be kosher to remove the .45 baffles and end cap, melt both into a puddle of metal, and then machine new ones to make a 9mm can? Only one (1) set of suppressor parts would be possessed at any given time.

Would this require the filing of another Form 1 and payment of another $200 tax to retrofit the existing .45 can (same serial number)?

[r2kba]

I have a 45acp suppressor. Based on everything I have read, I will have a difficult time getting it to cycle on a 9mm like a Glock.

Correct, as a end consumer, I can not get my hands on extra parts/tubes...

BUT, if you are skilled enough to BUILD your own suppressor, you are legally able to have extra parts.

Doing something unique in this manner would be pushing the edges of the envelope. It may not be worth being a pioneer in this way.
IF I was going to try something like this, I would make the tubes fit only one way. The primary tube fits the LCD/LID. The primary tube fits the add on tubes. The add on tubes will only fit the primary tube not the LCD/LID. This way the registered tube MUST be used if any other tube is used.


Pistol can's are specific to their caliber from what I know. Would an SWR .45 pistol can cycle on a 9mm? I don't know. I wouldn't think trying it would be impractical considering thread size/diameter. Maybe someone has tried.

As was said, you'd have to be a certain class of MFG/FFL to do what you suggest which is have additional can parts laying around. Me as a non FFL has to submit the construction plans and are only permitted to make THOSE parts, and no extras.

You have an interesting idea, dont get me wrong. I'm not knocking your suggestion. What I'm saying is, it may not be legal and/or practical for either the Form-1 maker such as a non FFL holder or even for the FFL/MFG holder because he cant ship extra can parts with the original design and the end user such as you and me can not have extra parts for the can listed on the FOrm-1, even if we made it.

[r2kba]

Let me be a little more specific. Paperwork is approved to make a suppressor in .45 and the .45 can is made. After about a year, the .45 can wants to become a 9mm can.

Would it be kosher to remove the .45 baffles and end cap, melt both into a puddle of metal, and then machine new ones to make a 9mm can? Only one (1) set of suppressor parts would be possessed at any given time.

Would this require the filing of another Form 1 and payment of another $200 tax to retrofit the existing .45 can (same serial number)?


I think you could do it with some sort of amendment form sent to ATFE, however time consuming an expensive. I belive you can do this with an SBR FORM-1.

[RWBlue]

Pistol can's are specific to their caliber from what I know. Would an SWR .45 pistol can cycle on a 9mm? I don't know. I wouldn't think trying it would be impractical considering thread size/diameter. Maybe someone has tried.

As I understand it the Size/weight of the suppressor as well as the LID/LCD is the issue.

Nothing that couldn't be modified, if legal.....but it appears that it is not legal here in the states.

[Glock'N'Load]

A 45 is harder to make quiet 9mm is a good choice. I just payed for a SWR Trident 9. Let the waiting begin. I paid $614 including shipping to my dealer and that includes the LCD booster.

[btwiceborn]

Would it be kosher to remove the .45 baffles and end cap, melt both into a puddle of metal, and then machine new ones to make a 9mm can? Only one (1) set of suppressor parts would be possessed at any given time.

Would this require the filing of another Form 1 and payment of another $200 tax to retrofit the existing .45 can (same serial number)?

this was discussed at great length on ar15.com. here is the link
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=199744&page=1

my take is that unless you get your own letter from the atf that says you specifically can, then you are walking a fine line.