View Full Version : Mass Gun Law Question...
MP-In-The-Wind
03-21-2008, 18:34
Is it possible for a Massachusetts resident to purchase a handgun outside the
state of Mass?
Is it possible for a Massachusetts resident to purchase a handgun outside the
state of Mass?
Not legally!
Fed Law trumps all here and says simply that ALL Interstate handgun transfers MUST take place at an FFL in the state that the new owner resides in.
Only exemption is for inheritance and if you live in a 2nd state for multiple months at a time (e.g. snowbirds).
Sorry, no easy way to avoid the EOPS List and AG Regs to get all those neat handguns that free-America can buy.
Which section of 140?
Nice try!
I didn't know that "140" was Fed Law? :supergrin:
Try the BATFE website, the answer is there.
Thanks. I was speaking of MA law. Also thinking of a MA resident going up to Maine and purchasing from a dealer and NOT having it shipped to him. Thats how I took the first poster. They even did away with the guys with FFL's that used to work out of their house. Must have a store fornt now.
So ordering from a company to ship to MA, ya, you have to have a dealer receive it and charge you a bit for doing so.
Going yourself, say to Maine, buying a new gun you would have to fill out the proper paperwork when you got home. Was the BLUE card but now I think they call it a FA 90?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2 (& b3 is also pertinent here):
(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]
And proper cites to the underlying US Code and CFRs are noted under each Q&A.
That was pretty much what I was talking about. Going out of state yourself and not having it shipped to you. I assumed the first poster was talking about that. We are on the same page, just started at different chapters.
CJMello,
Better do some considerable reading of both MGLs and Fed Law (BATFE website has most of the info you need easily accessible).
What you are suggesting will get you an all expense paid vacation in Club Fed's Graybar Hotel. Been that way since 1968's Gun Control Act.
FA-10 replaced the old Blue Cards in 1998.
Since a MA Dealer is prohibited by MGL from transferring any handgun not on the EOPS List and AG Regs compliant, this won't work for most handguns. Only exemptions from this is "in state" and registered to a MA LTC/FID or MA Dealer ON 10/21/1998 (for both parts). AG Regs don't apply if the gun was made before 10/21/1998, but MGL still does.
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
That backs up my Maine story. From your BATF post. Or am I misreading? I a MA resident purchases a firearm that is MA legal? Than I see it just mentions rifle and shotgun. Damn the laws. I should have run that by Gliddon already.
No you read it right. EXCEPT that the OP asked about HANDGUNS, hence my response specifically about handguns.
I've purchased a few rifles in NH. Showed my LTC, dealer ran NICS/4473 and I took it home. I did an FA-10 for each upon retuning, as a "registration" and all is well.
Legally the dealer can't sell you anything that won't be legal for you to possess back in MA (e.g. no new so-called "assault weapons").
Legally the dealer can't sell you anything that won't be legal for you to possess back in MA (e.g. no new so-called "assault weapons").
That goes for MA compliant handguns?
Haven't done a private sale in awhile. Was the BLUE card then. Always bought my stuff locally. A bit more leeway now with the LE ID though. Just no cash to work with.
I just wish they wrote laws to affect the criminals.
No, keep the handguns and long guns issue separate.
We can buy long guns in any state where the laws don't prohibit sales to out-of-staters, but the transfer MUST be done at an FFL.
Handguns can only be transfered in the state that the new owner resides in. We can "purchase" in any state, but they must ship to a MA Dealer who then does the transfer. EXCEPT if it isn't on the EOPS List, the MA Dealer is forbidden by MGLs from doing the transfer. Very complicated, I realize.
No interstate transfers for any guns between individuals, that is a Federal Felony.
CJMello,
I just read your profile, where you list your occupation as Corrections.
Be advised that per MGL, you are unlikely to qualify as an LEO wrt the gun laws and ordering non-compliant handguns.
I have a few friends who work the Dedham and Plymouth County jails and they don't qualify under the MGL exemption for LEOs. Another friend is a Swat Medic with a LEC, trains with an M4, but can't own a real one (or post-ban so-called AW) here.
The laws here are insane and written/passed by mental midgets on the Hill!
Also a LE Deputy. I wear many hats at work. We have a Corrections Division and a LE Division.
DenaliPark
03-21-2008, 21:38
I live in WI and have purchased a half dozen pistols from a large retailer in MN, it's called a dealer transfer and perfectly legal. Of course with MA being MA, they may have some special provision in their state gun laws preventing this just because they decided way back when that it was a fine way to ruin some poor guy's day. I can't believe they would object to the legal transfer of a firearm from one dealer to another.
Don't worry. Our Pols are out to make it worse.
LouCyphre
03-21-2008, 22:42
if you go up to the trading post in kittery and purchase something legally with your MA pistol permit, they will actually follow you down to the border with the piece, and hand-off to you for legality. now, i have never done this personally, but i believe my father-in-law has. not sure if the kittery people make daily trips or what, but weekends in there are jumpin' as you may already know.
Sounds like they might as well run a bus trip.
if you go up to the trading post in kittery and purchase something legally with your MA pistol permit, they will actually follow you down to the border with the piece, and hand-off to you for legality. now, i have never done this personally, but i believe my father-in-law has. not sure if the kittery people make daily trips or what, but weekends in there are jumpin' as you may already know.
NO reason for this!
They do bring a gun to a FFL-licensed NH location of theirs to avoid charging you the ME Sales Tax however. But anyone can buy a long gun in NH/ME w/o going thru their home-state FFL, perfectly legal per MGLs and Fed Laws (as well as NH and ME Laws).
LouCyphre
03-29-2008, 01:18
lens, have i misspoken regarding the "border hand off" that kittery does?...speaking on handguns specifically...i was aware of the long gun law (for the most part).
if you know how the outpost at kittery runs their system, i would be curious. as i said i think my father in law (MA resident) did it this way, but im not 100% sure.
they have a decent selection and i would be interested in purchasing my next handgun there...
thanks for the reply...you seem to be very knowledgable on this topic.
Lou,
Note that I specifically addressed long guns. GCA 1968 made it a Federal Felony to transfer handguns across state lines (unless to an FFL).
I suspect that KTP is shuttling the handguns to a MA FFL inside MA for the MA Resident to do the NICS/4473/FA-10 and pickup. That would be perfectly legal.
JBshoot88
04-03-2008, 05:45
This is an offshoot question but is it true that it is only illegal for new Glocks to be sold retail in Ma. and that these laws do not pertain to private sales? This is my understanding, which leads me to the question:
Can I legally buy a "new" Glock privately from a LEO who recently purchased it under the exemption? I realize that I wouldn't be able to possess the hi-cap mags because they would likely say "LE only" but is it o.k. for me to have the gun and get different mags?
Gotta love massachusetts...
It is ONLY a civil violation of the AG Regs for an FFL to transfer any Glock made post-10/21/98 to a non-LEO in MA. Glock meets the LEGAL requirements for sale in MA, but the AG declared that they don't meet HIS requirements (a civil, not criminal matter).
Private sales are perfectly legal.
Now we get into Contract Law. LEOs get a deep discount ($398.20 w/3 mags and standard sights on most models) by ordering thru a LE Distributor. HOWEVER, that deal comes with a CONTRACTUAL obligation (civil matter) NOT to resell the gun for at least a year. So if your LEO buddy bought it a few months ago and resells to you now, he'd be in violation of contract law, could be sued and if his agency was notified by Glock he might be subject to disciplinary action. Once a year has passed by, he's free to dispose of it in a private transaction and everything is cool.
New hi-cap mags (post 9/13/1994), whether marked or not are illegal to possess in MA unless you are LEO.
JBshoot88
04-03-2008, 08:28
thanks for the info lens, That is what I thought, but i didn't know about the contractual piece. I am currently under 21 but plan to get my LTC "A" as soon as I am, and the LEO in question is a relative, so maybe i should get this deal going now so we can all be in the clear when I can carry. Good to know, thanks again
LouCyphre
04-12-2008, 01:31
Lou,
Note that I specifically addressed long guns. GCA 1968 made it a Federal Felony to transfer handguns across state lines (unless to an FFL).
I suspect that KTP is shuttling the handguns to a MA FFL inside MA for the MA Resident to do the NICS/4473/FA-10 and pickup. That would be perfectly legal.
very good...thanks for that info.
is the same true for NH residents?...im in NH and since ME doesnt honor my permit, i couldnt walk out of there with a shiny new friend.
maybe i need to contact KTP :dunno:
thanks again for your knowledge.
much appreciated.
Lou,
Not entirely sure what you are asking here:
is the same true for NH residents?...im in NH and since ME doesnt honor my permit, i couldnt walk out of there with a shiny new friend.
Fed Law applies to everyone in all states and has nothing to do with permits.
So handguns must be transferred in the state you reside in.
Long guns can be transferred in any state, as long as state law allows for it. ME and NH have no problem with this. MA prohibits anyone not a MA "subject" from buying any guns/ammo in MA per MGL.
KTP, as I understand it, has an FFL in both ME and NH. So for NH folks they allegedly transport the gun to their NH location (basically just across the border) and do the transfer there.
JimGlock
04-20-2008, 12:25
Lens you might be able to help me out with this.
My brother in law is a resident of MD. He is moving back to MA. I would like to purchase a new H&K USP from him that he currently owns. Is this legal? I wasnt sure these laws are crazy! I certainly dont want to break any.
Thank you so much.
Jim
Jim, no idea where (state) you live in, but here's the rules.
- Two residents of MA can do a FTF as long as both hold LTCs. You do an FA-10 (and a private bill of sale would be wise, but not required) to register the transaction with the state.
- No handguns are "banned" in MA, even though people throw that term around a lot. DEALERS are "banned" from selling any handguns that aren't on the tested and approved (by EOPS) List and that don't meet the AG's Regs (only exception is for handguns that were in-state on 10/21/98).
- Both need to be careful of the hi-cap mag ban. Only hi-cap mags made before 9/13/94 are legal in MA unless possessor is LEO.
So if you live in MA, once he moves to MA and gets his LTC he can legally sell you the USP.
JimGlock
04-20-2008, 13:27
Jim, no idea where (state) you live in, but here's the rules.
- Two residents of MA can do a FTF as long as both hold LTCs. You do an FA-10 (and a private bill of sale would be wise, but not required) to register the transaction with the state.
- No handguns are "banned" in MA, even though people throw that term around a lot. DEALERS are "banned" from selling any handguns that aren't on the tested and approved (by EOPS) List and that don't meet the AG's Regs (only exception is for handguns that were in-state on 10/21/98).
- Both need to be careful of the hi-cap mag ban. Only hi-cap mags made before 9/13/94 are legal in MA unless possessor is LEO.
So if you live in MA, once he moves to MA and gets his LTC he can legally sell you the USP.
Thanks Lens!
Yes I am a resident of MA and hold a class A LTC. And he is a former resident of MA (he is moving back). So excluding the hi-cap mags, he can legally sell me the firearm in a private sale?
Yup, I thought that I made that clear with the following statement.
So if you live in MA, once he moves to MA and gets his LTC he can legally sell you the USP.
A word of caution wrt your Brother. When he moved out of MA, his LTC became "null and void" automatically. If he didn't notify the state and issuing authority of his move (certified mail, return receipt requested - all spelled out in MGLs), he violated the law and it is an automatic DQ for any subsequent LTC application if the local chief so chooses.
He'll need a new LTC when he moves back, even if his old one hadn't expired yet . . . and I wouldn't want to be him explaining the situation if he neglected to notify per the law.
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