Can we create a stick on good vs bad brass to reload? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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alank2
03-23-2008, 09:57
Hi everyone,

I recall a thread not long ago where people were talking about how hard they inspect calibers, for example 9mm was inspected very hard because it is quite a strong case for the typical 9mm loads put on it, and 40sw was inspected more carefully because it is much closer to the "edge" than 9mm for example.

Also was a list of good brass and bad brass.

Could we create a sticky that would list calibers and everyone could chime in about headstamps considered good or bad. We could just have people post their experiences and update a top level message. Obviously there could be disagreements where one person says this headstamp is decent while another says it is trash, in which case we could go with 3 categories for headstamp: Good to go, Mixed Review, Junk Brass.

Maybe a 1-5 rating on inspection necessity. 1=super strong brass, just a basic inspection down to 5=inspect it extremely well or its going to KB!.

What do you guys think?

I love to dig up all the free brass at the range, it sure would be nice to have a list of what to throw in the scrap bin right off the bat...

Any brass not actually made of brass is of course junk. This includes Wolf steel cases and CCI blazer aluminum cases.

In the format company name (headstamp [other headstamps])
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Good to go brass:
Starline (*--* Two Stars with line between them)
Winchester (Winchester, WIN, WCC?)
Norma (Norma)
Magtech (CBC)
Hornady (Hornady)
Independance (*I*)
Israeli Military Industries (TZZ)
Federal (Federal, FC that is not 40S&W)
Eldorado (ELD)
Remington (R-P, UMC)

Shootable, but not as good:
Speer (Speer)
Precision Made Cartridge (PMC)
Company? (HY)
Aguila (Aguila)
Fiocchi (Fiocchi)

Junk Brass:
American Ammunition (AMERC)
Armscorp (ACP)
Company? (NNY)
Federal (FC that is 40S&W)
Sellier & Beloit (S&B) - Mixed reviews, some ok, some bad, usually the problem is related to primer pocket size.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks,

Alan

podwich
03-23-2008, 10:14
AMERC=bad.

mitchshrader
03-23-2008, 10:47
Starline = Good

alank2
03-23-2008, 10:59
Hi guys,

Well that gets us started! After a bunch of posts I'll modify the first post to include a summary!

I'll throw another one in, Winchester = good.

Maybe we don't need to do it by caliber...

Thanks,

Alan

Jeff82
03-23-2008, 11:18
Maybe mention separating cases by weight and not mixing +p cases with non +p cases...

Rico567
03-23-2008, 12:00
I've shot a lot of "pickup" brass in my time, some say a bad habit, and they may be right. Nevertheless, through thousands of rounds I've had no reloading issues, except with the one headstamp that pops up in forums again and again, including this one- AMERC. Under no circumstances attempt to reload this stuff.

(Note: I'm not including in this discussion things like aluminum or steel cases. This stufff should not be reloaded, and I'm assuming people on this forum know that.)

fourrobert13
03-23-2008, 12:29
Stay away from FC & AD brass when it comes to rifle reloading. Some one already covered amerc.

I'll load up just about every thing else.:supergrin:

Jeff82
03-23-2008, 15:08
Stay away from FC & AD brass when it comes to rifle reloading. Some one already covered amerc.

I'll load up just about every thing else.:supergrin:Ok. I'm just guessing here:
FC=Frontier Cartridge and AD=anno Domini?

:)

alank2
03-23-2008, 16:23
Hi,

If you can, please post the company and the headstamp.

What is the deal with FC is this federal cartridge or something else? Is it good in some calibers and not others?

Thanks,

Alan

alank2
03-23-2008, 16:37
Hi,

I found a thread with some BigSlick wisdom I included.

What is the deal on the NT marked stuff (not toxic). Does some of it work fine and others not?

Thanks,

Alan

SILVERBACK32
03-23-2008, 16:45
Hi everyone,

I recall a thread not long ago where people were talking about how hard they inspect calibers, for example 9mm was inspected very hard because it is quite a strong case for the typical 9mm loads put on it, and 40sw was inspected more carefully because it is much closer to the "edge" than 9mm for example.

Also was a list of good brass and bad brass.

Could we create a sticky that would list calibers and everyone could chime in about headstamps considered good or bad. We could just have people post their experiences and update a top level message. Obviously there could be disagreements where one person says this headstamp is decent while another says it is trash, in which case we could go with 3 categories for headstamp: Good to go, Mixed Review, Junk Brass.

Maybe a 1-5 rating on inspection necessity. 1=super strong brass, just a basic inspection down to 5=inspect it extremely well or its going to KB!.

What do you guys think?

I love to dig up all the free brass at the range, it sure would be nice to have a list of what to throw in the scrap bin right off the bat...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Good to go brass:
Starline (Two Stars with an arc between them)
Winchester (WIN, WCC?)
Norma (Headstamp?)
Company? (CBC)
Hornady (Headstamp?)
Company? (*I*)
Company? (TZZ)
Federal (Headstamp?)
Company? PMC? (ELD)

Shootable, but not as good:
Remington (R-P)
Speer (Headstamp?)
Company? (S&B)
Precision Metalic Something? (PMC)
Company? (HY)
Aguila (Headstamp?)
Fiocchi (Headstamp?)

Junk Brass:
AMERC (AMER?)
Armscorp (ACP)
Company? (NNY)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks,

Alan

What's wrong with Speer?

freakshow10mm
03-23-2008, 17:32
Hornady brass is stamped Hornady.
Fiochi brass is stamped Fiochi
Norma brass is stamped Norma.
Winchester brass is stamped Winchester
Federal brass is stamped FC
ELD brass is Eldorado
PMC stands for Precision Made Cartridge
S&B is Sellier and Beloit (sp?)
*I* is Independance
Amerc is American Ammunition
Aguila is stamped Aguila
Starline is *--* but looks curved because the brass is round
UMC brass is stamped UMC and is a Remington company
Speer headstamp is Speer

fourrobert13
03-23-2008, 17:48
Ok. I'm just guessing here:
FC=Frontier Cartridge and AD=anno Domini?

:)

AD=Adcom pistol and rifle brass is crap. Loose primer pockets and the brass is brittle.

FC=Federal rifle brass. Loose primer pockets and the brass is soft.

If I come accross either, I pitch them.

fourrobert13
03-23-2008, 17:50
Hi,

I found a thread with some BigSlick wisdom I included.

What is the deal on the NT marked stuff (not toxic). Does some of it work fine and others not?

Thanks,

Alan


All of the NT stuff I came accross was 45 acp. It used small pistol primers instead of large. I didn't understand why, and I never attempted to load any of it.

sig2009
03-23-2008, 17:53
I think you should remove Speer from the not as good section!

alank2
03-23-2008, 18:36
Hi,

Speer made it into its category because of the BigSlick post I found. Honestly, I don't care for the fact that they "skip operations" according to them to produce brass more cheaply. I think these "skip operations" are responsible for the concave case head which I think looks cheap even if it works fine.

Thanks,

Alan

alank2
03-23-2008, 18:44
Hi,

Thanks freakshow, I've assimilated your knowledge into the top message!

Alan

alank2
03-23-2008, 18:45
Hi,

If anyone can find the thread about how carefully people inspect different calibers, that would be great. I recall people talking about how they inspect some calibers just lightly and other calibers in very great detail. I tried to find it earlier but didn't.

Thanks,

Alan

G10mm
03-23-2008, 18:46
Hi,

Speer made it into its category because of the BigSlick post I found. Honestly, I don't care for the fact that they "skip operations" according to them to produce brass more cheaply. I think these "skip operations" are responsible for the concave case head which I think looks cheap even if it works fine.

Thanks,

Alan
I saw the concave case head from speer and didn't like the look of it and scrapped them . I don't like to take chances .

freakshow10mm
03-23-2008, 19:16
CBC is Magtech brass.

mrwilson
03-23-2008, 20:49
Isn't GFL Fiochi too?

SILVERBACK32
03-25-2008, 06:06
I saw the concave case head from speer and didn't like the look of it and scrapped them . I don't like to take chances .
Was the headstamp * SPEER* OR SPEER ?

Helms
03-25-2008, 13:18
I just ran through a batch of sellier and beloit 9mm brass with the red goop on the primers. They were total JUNK. Did NOT want to seat primers in any way, shape or form. I had two out of about 15 actually seat primers flush, the other ones would only go about 1/2 way if that, so I junked them. I dont think I will even be trying my hand at S&B brass anymore.

FC NATO brass is finicky. I had a couple that absolutely did not want to seat primers as well, but they may have been crimped. I didnt check too closely. Might want to mark some of the older crimped 9mm NATO stuff as brass that isnt really worth the time of messing with.

Also, i really like R-P 9mm brass as it seems pretty easy to seat primers in since the primer pocket is beveled, I would rate this as good reloading brass.

OH- and before anyone asks, might want to list wolf and all aluminum "brass" as JUNK not to be reloaded.

alank2
03-25-2008, 19:27
Hi,

Thanks Helms, I updated with the info you provided!

Alan

goforbroke
03-25-2008, 20:38
Top marks for Remington and Winchester.

I relegate Speer/CCI and Federal to target loads.

BTW, TZZ is made by the Israeli Military Industries - very good brass.

Maine1
03-25-2008, 20:48
Amerc....is USELESS, and i mean it. I tried to make dummy rounds with it, and it would not fit in a case gauge. It serves only as a bad example.

Speer is, IME, decent brass except for the funky concave case head.

Selier and Bellot brass is good, IME, as i bought a case or two of 45ACP, shot it up and now reload it, seems fine to me.

alank2
03-25-2008, 21:00
Hi,

S&B - 2 votes good, 1 vote bad, I'm putting back on the shootable list...

Thanks,

Alan

VN350X10
03-25-2008, 21:40
A couple of items from uncle.....

In .40 S&W, brass from Federal marked "FC" should be avoided.
If the headstamp reads "FEDERAL" it's good brass.
There have been numerous changes made in Fed 40's, the latest stuff is very good brass, but I place the earlier stuff in the "iffy" catagory.

As was mentioned, the Rem 9mm brass has a nice chamfer to the primer pocket, those folks loading 9's on a Lee 1000 should take note, this stuff makes a lee work a whole lot better.

On the S&B and the Fed NATO spec, both have crimped primer pockets, although not all of the S&B is crimped, treat it as if it is & swage the primer pockets, it will save a ton of grief.

uncle albert

alank2
03-25-2008, 22:34
Hi,

Thanks uncle!

Alan

Juell
03-25-2008, 23:16
I have had some bad experiences with newer .38spl S&B brass, the primer pocket is noticibly smaller, and priming is a no-go.
Older S&B is just fine in my experiences though. Maybe I just hit a wierd batch?

freakshow10mm
03-26-2008, 00:16
If anyone has Amerc brass, they can send it to me. I use cartridge cases for making bullet jackets for bulet swaging. My address is on my website. Send whatever you want to get rid of. I can use it.

alank2
03-26-2008, 15:55
Hi,

Well S&B is the flip-flop of the group, I'm putting it back on the junk list with a note that sometimes it can be ok if you don't experience priming issues.

Good luck,

Alan

boomerzz
03-26-2008, 16:18
CCI is good to go for me.

I reload the blazer CCI Brass all the time (in .45 ACP), nice big primer flash hole.

It is stamped "CCI".

The stuff that I've seen that's stamped SPEER is usually +P, I've reloaded that too with no problems, but not in the bulk I've reloaded CCI Brass.

Marksman44
03-28-2008, 19:58
Anyone want to weigh in on Lake City brass?

squirreld
03-28-2008, 20:14
CCI is good to go for me.
I reload the blazer CCI Brass all the time (in .45 ACP), nice big primer flash hole.
It is stamped "CCI".
The stuff that I've seen that's stamped SPEER is usually +P, I've reloaded that too with no problems, but not in the bulk I've reloaded CCI Brass.

Yer the only one tout'n CCI and I would like others input on it.
Good/bad?

VN350X10
03-28-2008, 21:24
I've loaded the CCI "Blazer" brass in .45acp for USPSA & pins, seems to be fine.

As far as L C brass, if there is any better for .223, .308 or .30-06, I haven't found it yet & I've been reloading for 30+ yrs.

The LC Match brass is highly desirable, sorta like dating a supermodel that has her own Ferrari & her father has a liquor store & you get carte blanche to ALL of the above !

uncle albert

Linear Thinker
03-29-2008, 09:59
Some headstamp additions to freakshow10mm's post, with quality comments based on my experience:

Fiocchi brass is stamped Fiocchi or GFL - excellent
Winchester brass is stamped Winchester or WIN or WCC - excellent
Federal brass is stamped FEDERAL or FC - excellent

Prvi Partisan (Yugoslavia) brass is stamped PPU in cyrillic letters, looks like nny - not good in pistol calibers. Wrong primer pocket size, wrong primer type, eg. 45ACP brass with small primer pockets. Good in rifle calibers, and I believe Graf's rare caliber brass comes prom Prvi Partisan

Igman Konjic (Yugoslavia) brass is stamped IK, good rifle brass. Never saw any pistol ammo from them.

Malaysian military - stamped MAL, bad news. Heavily crimped in primer, too-small flash hole makes it almost non-reloadable

Note on PMC brass: it varies greatly. PMC is just a holding company, and has been in and out of bankruptcy a few times. PMC started out as Pan-Metal Corp, then became Patton-Morgan Corp, etc. Their brass/ammo has been Korean/US/Russian in origin. Their Korean and US brass is fine.
LT

gwalchmai
03-30-2008, 08:01
Please save me all your "junk" S&B brass. Also that Speer, CCI, and Fiocchi barely shootable stuff. My guns and presses don't read this thread and are under the impression that they're fine.

Just let me know when you have a FRB full and I'll pay the shipping. (.45ACP & Colt, .44, .38 & .357, 9mm) ;)

Vitamin G
03-30-2008, 18:48
anyone familiar with MFS brass in 30-06?

gwalchmai
03-30-2008, 19:09
Nope, but I have a few thousand MFS .45ACP that I've reloaded four or five times and they're great.

Helms
03-31-2008, 11:10
Please save me all your "junk" S&B brass. Also that Speer, CCI, and Fiocchi barely shootable stuff. My guns and presses don't read this thread and are under the impression that they're fine.

Just let me know when you have a FRB full and I'll pay the shipping. (.45ACP & Colt, .44, .38 & .357, 9mm) ;)


I will save all of my JUNK S&B for you if you really want it. I doubt I will ever have enough for a FRB though. You will also have to let me know how that turns out for you and how exactly you get around dealing with junk brass with undersized primer pockets.

While you are at it, you want some of my .40 federal cartridges too?

gwalchmai
03-31-2008, 11:20
I will save all of my JUNK S&B for you if you really want it. I doubt I will ever have enough for a FRB though. You will also have to let me know how that turns out for you and how exactly you get around dealing with junk brass with undersized primer pockets.

While you are at it, you want some of my .40 federal cartridges too? Well, if by "undersized" you're referring to the slight crimp that has to be overcome the first time you reload S&B, I deal with it by applying slightly more firm but gentle pressure, and the primer seats just fine. Subsequent reloads (and I'm at four or five on many S&Bs), go without a hitch. ;)

I don't shoot .40, but thanks, anyway. :supergrin:

Helms
03-31-2008, 20:15
no, I mean undersized primer pockets. I didnt see a crimp anywhere on there, but there is some red sealant. I have had some S&B stuff work great, but this particular batch is a nightmare. I tried every trick I could, from beveling the primer pockets, pressing more firmly, etc. and I cant get a standard small pistol primer to seat more than 1/2 way, which tells me that it probably isnt from some crimp or something, because the primer does start- it just wont seat anywhere near flush. This is 9mm stuff, BTW.

MarkTX
03-31-2008, 20:27
Okay so say a fellow had 3k 40s&w brass and was gonna load some screamers up using them. Now if he sorted all that brass and had about an equal number of:

Remington
Winchester
Speer
Federal
S&B
ProLoad

So assuming all brass was inpected and "looked" good to go, which brand would you want to use for loading HOT 40s (we're talking ammo not websites :tongueout:) ???

Helms
03-31-2008, 21:19
heh... I suppose it depends on how hot we are talking, but if it were ME, and you are shooting this out of a glock with the unsupported chamber, I would use new brass for some he-man loads.

The common response is that federal brass is junk. I use a few, but try to toss most of them out. They were redesigned at one point to make them a little more "burst proof" at the webbing, so they in theory should be OK with the newer stuff, but I just dont trust them. I have also seen some nastily bulged out rem. and win. brass. I would say if it were up to me, I guess speer. That seems to look a tad stronger just from looking at fired brass. I use my .40 less than other brass, with about 3 reloads or so before I toss them. I think the constant expansion on the brass from the "glock bulge" and resizing process weakens it a bit. Perhaps I am paranoid, but I really dont want to KB my glock if I can keep from it.

Charly
04-03-2008, 04:31
I have some input but am not sure it is useable because I am not sure the quality is the same in the US and here in Europe:

9mm:

GFL-Fiocchi good
S&B-Seller & Belot not good, small primers pockets


38 spcl:
REM-Remington good
IMI- Israel Manfct. good
GFL- Fiocchi good
S&B- not so good

45ACP:
S&B- good
GFL- not so good
IMI- good

222rem:
S&B - not good
FC - Federal good
PMC-good
Norma-good

223rem:
S&B - good
IMI - good

308win:
IMI- good

mrwilson
04-03-2008, 08:14
What's wrong with GFL 45acp?

With regards to S&B, will swaging the primer pocket help?

Charly
04-03-2008, 08:56
What's wrong with GFL 45acp?

With regards to S&B, will swaging the primer pocket help?

the 45 ACP GFL is more difficult to prime

the S&B 9mm : I did not try to swage

Helms
04-03-2008, 13:17
I can't comment on primer pocket swaging on the S&B 9mm, but I do know that I cleaned the pocket, reamed it just a bit and even chamfered the pocket to try and ease seating and it just didnt work. I suspect you could swage them to size, but I dont really want to put that much effort into making 9mm brass shootable when there are tons of it out there that is far less labor intensive to mess with.

VN350X10
04-03-2008, 16:59
Swaging S&B 9mm does work, buy WHY ?????
At least in the U.S.A. we have a large selection of good, different headstamps to work with.

and 1 crappy one.



uncle albert

gwalchmai
04-03-2008, 17:03
Truth be told, I have so much Winchester 9mm that it's the only one I reload. .45 Auto I load everything.

JMS
04-03-2008, 18:42
Ran across some more headstamps, good or bad?? Company?? Feel free to add to list.

C()J
L()Y
One looks like a circle with an i through it
Para at top, triangle shape at bottom
AP
GFL
LB-NTF
DNL
GECO
IMI
WRA
CCI N/R
CCI
LC
PMP
MM
S043
MFS

()=primer pocket

Charly
04-04-2008, 01:18
I can't comment on primer pocket swaging on the S&B 9mm, but I do know that I cleaned the pocket, reamed it just a bit and even chamfered the pocket to try and ease seating and it just didnt work. I suspect you could swage them to size, but I dont really want to put that much effort into making 9mm brass shootable when there are tons of it out there that is far less labor intensive to mess with.

Swaging S&B 9mm does work, buy WHY ?????
uncle albert


Exactly the same opinion.

For 9mm it is not worth all the work !
Eventhough I can not find so many different brands at our ranges here in Belgium and that the most commonly found brass IS S&B, I would not consider swaging, reaming and chamfering primers pockets in 9mm.

zipper046
04-04-2008, 09:31
Have 1500 pieces of .40S&W IMI brass (already loaded with Precision Moly coated bullets)...shot about 400 of them and reloaded the brass already. GOOD brass...cleans up nice, sizes real easy, and seems stouter than other brass (ie: R-P, Speer).

gary newport
04-04-2008, 19:43
So what's the bad news on Armscor .45 ACP brass? I just picked a baggie of a couple hundred of them off the prize table at our MNSL banquet. They appear to be virgins.

gwalchmai
04-04-2008, 19:59
Gary, if you mean the ones marked AP and a two digit year, I've loaded a few in .45ACP and they were fine. .45ACP is very forgiving, of course.

BTW, for anyone who doesn't have it already, HERE (http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm) is a list of headstamp codes and their companies.

And HERE (http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/v/Headstamp-Gallery/) is a gallery.

And HERE (http://www.geocities.com/gregory_bo/).

gary newport
04-04-2008, 20:14
Gary, if you mean the ones marked AP and a two digit year, I've loaded a few in .45ACP and they were fine. .45ACP is very forgiving, of course.

BTW, for anyone who doesn't have it already, HERE (http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm) is a list of headstamp codes and their companies.

And HERE (http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/v/Headstamp-Gallery/) is a gallery.

And HERE (http://www.geocities.com/gregory_bo/).

That's it! AP 03 I didn't recognize the head stamp, but I got to the prize table late and it was down to seeds and stems, so....

Thanks! I'll load 'em up with either my Mellow Major or Minor load.

MustangGreg66
04-04-2008, 23:30
I bought some ammo called "CCI Blazer Brass" in .40 S&W. It's blazer but with brass cases instead of their aluminum or whatever crappy cases. Anyone used these before? Just wondering what to expect out of the brass once the factory part goes boom :wow:

Linear Thinker
04-05-2008, 13:37
JMS - some IDs for you in red:

Ran across some more headstamps, good or bad?? Company?? Feel free to add to list.

C()J - Norinco
L()Y - Norinco
One looks like a circle with an i through it
Para at top, triangle shape at bottom - Norinco
AP
GFL - Fiocchi
LB-NTF
DNL
GECO - Dynamit Nobel Germany
IMI - Israeli Military Industries
WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms
CCI N/R - CCI Blaser non-reloadable
CCI - CCI-Speer
LC - Lake City (USGI)
PMP - Pretoria Metals (South African)
MM - South African
S043
MFS - Hungarian

()=primer pocket

gwalchmai
04-05-2008, 13:47
I got to the prize table late and it was down to seeds and stems

Man, that's one I haven't heard in a long time. :supergrin:

Helms
04-05-2008, 21:44
I just got a bunch of MM brass (south african) in 9mm and it is crimped HARDCORE. Way worse than any NATO/ military stuff I have ever seen. Stay away from this in 9mm if they all have this ridiculous crimp on the primer.

NOCM
04-07-2008, 15:31
OH- and before anyone asks, might want to list wolf and all aluminum "brass" as JUNK not to be reloaded.

I think it was Guns and Ammo Mag that just did an article on reloading aluminum and steel cases... They reported that it was ok to use it a couple times and they had no problems as long as it is primed correctly (berdan/boxer)

Helms
04-07-2008, 21:26
I'll have to look at that article if I get a chance. I do like my dies, though and it doesnt sound like they factored in possible die damage from reloading that stuff.

Id also like to know what they were shooting. Some stuff might be worth the risk, but high pressure cartridges would have me puckered pretty good.

elsolo
04-11-2008, 13:59
Ran across some more headstamps, good or bad?? Company?? Feel free to add to list.

C()J
L()Y
One looks like a circle with an i through it
Para at top, triangle shape at bottom


That is just about the ONLY 9mm brass I will not reload, that and Amerc.
Very loose primer pockets, many of the range pickups allready had the spent primer fall out.

Compared to that crap, S&B is awesome!
Snug primer pocket, but very reloadable IMHO.

Many9's
04-11-2008, 19:20
All of the info below applies to 9 mm and .357/.38 sp which are all I have experience with.

Winchester is head stamped WIN. Winchester military brass (9mm) is head stamped WCC (Winchester Cartridge Company)

I've had very good results with Speer in both plain and Ni plated form in 9 mm.

FC is Federal Cartridge. It's been fine in 9 mm and .38 Sp.

AMERC, as noted, is indeed JUNK.

S&B is problematic. I don't bother with their stuff with red lacquer around the primers. I assume they are crimped.

NT means "nontoxic", i.e. uses lead-free primers. Apparently the flash holes are different diameter from standard brass and it's considered non-reloadable. Maybe by now someone has figured out how to use it.

G10mm
04-12-2008, 21:20
Was the headstamp * SPEER* OR SPEER ?

To be totally onest I don't remember !!!:dunno:

Orlando Eric
04-16-2008, 22:07
About five years ago I was loading S&B 45's by the bucket loads! I remember there was a hard pull the first time you knocked out the sealed primers but after that it weas smooth sailing.

The local shop was the cheapest around selling the S&B so it was once fired brass.

I have loaded a few thousand S&B 40's and have not had a major problem yet.

MisterLady27
04-18-2008, 11:03
Hello All,

1. I've seen many comments regarding the "junkness" of Amerc brass over the course of the last year, but didn't think much about it. Until last Tuesday at the cold and windy range.

2. The girls and friends were shooting some 9mm Tuesday and several of my reloads didn't go into battery. So we took the opportunity and had a lesson in stoppage reduction. And when I looked at the several rounds that didn't chamber they were all Amerc. Huh! Stock G17 barrel BTW, and all run through Beautiful Blue.

3. Comments anyone???

ML27

MustangGreg66
04-18-2008, 13:58
Hello All,

1. I've seen many comments regarding the "junkness" of Amerc brass over the course of the last year, but didn't think much about it. Until last Tuesday at the cold and windy range.

2. The girls and friends were shooting some 9mm Tuesday and several of my reloads didn't go into battery. So we took the opportunity and had a lesson in stoppage reduction. And when I looked at the several rounds that didn't chamber they were all Amerc. Huh! Stock G17 barrel BTW, and all run through Beautiful Blue.

3. Comments anyone???

ML27

Hmm, reading this I was just thinking about what dies you're using. Dillion dies size the case all the way down to get out any bulging in the case, or the Lee factory crimp die that comes in their 4 die sets also sizes the full case all the way down to eliminate any bulging and assure that rounds will chamber.

I was going to test this out myself. I don't have any of this Amerc brass (I don't think), but I'd noticed some bulged cases from some CCI brass I'd shot in my G35. Loading on the dillion I just kinda feed it any case that I come accross, but I was going to try to find some of the CCI brass in my pile and inspect the bulge as it goes through the stages...

VonFatman
04-19-2008, 07:32
I agree---S&B gets pitched...the primer pockets drive me crazy.

I used to buy PMP cheap...bought several thousand rounds before I started reloading and have reloaded the brass for years...some of the best .45 ACP brass I've ever used.

I like IMI

I HATE military surplus .45 ACP and .38 Special...it gets pitched into the recycle box....primer pockets too tight like S&B.

Good thread.

Bob

Bert.40
04-19-2008, 09:40
It doesn't matter how far down you can resize AMERC you will still get bad ones, maybe not on the first reload. But I'm betting you don't get a second. At least in .40 cal. I was told to anneal the AMERC before reloading; but figured it's just a waste of time for a dozen or so brass. Picking up range brass and buying once fired brass is the only place I get AMERC. Funny thing I've never seen AMERC on any store shelves. Where do they come from, other then China?

I don't have a problem with Federal in my .40; but friends complain about them in 9mm.

Another bad one I came across was with a headstamp PA RH, or it might have been PA RCH. I started pitching them also.

When picking up range brass or coming across unknown brass; use a caliper and check the OAL. One of the mistakes beginner reloaders make is never checking the OAL. Most of the time I lose my brass or it gets a defect before it reaches max OAL. Still, check it.

G10mm
04-19-2008, 13:49
[QUOTE=Bert.40;10319177]It doesn't matter how far down you can resize AMERC you will still get bad ones, maybe not on the first reload. But I'm betting you don't get a second. At least in .40 cal. I was told to anneal the AMERC before reloading; but figured it's just a waste of time for a dozen or so brass. Picking up range brass and buying once fired brass is the only place I get AMERC. Funny thing I've never seen AMERC on any store shelves. Where do they come from, other then China?

I don't have a problem with Federal in my .40; but friends complain about them in 9mm.

Your right I havent seen it on store shelves ether .The million dollor question is where is this junk comming from?????

Bert.40
04-19-2008, 18:36
I don't have any problem with Speer. But I have to reset my dies, basically the crimp die.

VN350X10
04-19-2008, 19:37
Guys, the answer to "Where is the A-Merc coming from?"

Answer......

It is sold by "Cheaper Than Dirt" & a couple of other mail-order houses, I think that Gary Olen up in Minn. sells it on occasion.
But the majority of it comes from CTD.
I've never seen it in any retail store or gunshop.
Too bad that they sell so much of it & the real problem is that it is advertised as being boxer primed & RELOADABLE !

uncle albert

MustangGreg66
04-19-2008, 23:36
Well I had my first official encounter with AMERC brass today. I've been picking a bunch of left over brass from the range and today went to reload some of it in my Dillion 550, in 45 ACP. I was using Rainier 200gr RN and I guess the case was short and didn't hit the powder die/case bell thing enough so when I went to seat the bullet, it didn't get inside the case all the way and the case basically peeled the jacket off the bullet.

To be fair, I didn't have the powder die down enough and this happened a few other times with some other brass types before I adjusted the die. BUT it just happened to be AMERC that it did that on first. I had 4 other AMERC rounds that went through just fine, but I weeded them out anyway. So far I've got 5 AMERC cases in 45 acp out of maybe 5-600 I've pulled off the range floor. Not bad, I'm glad its not as popular here :supergrin:

Also, with the S&B brass, is it mainly loading it from factory ammo that's the issue. I grabbed almost 100 cases from the range that looked like they'd been reloaded already, they'd marked the primer in red marker. some other S&B got mixed into my mixed brass and went through the dillion fine, primer pockets were a bit tight, but it seemed to all run smoothly. Is 45 diffrent than other calibers for this manufacturer, or do you think these pockets have already been swaged?

VN350X10
04-20-2008, 16:05
The red marker on the primer just might be the factory sealant !
I look for them, as I've never had any problems with S&B brass in any caliber I've used it.
And their .45 ACP brass is at least as good as Rem & I like it better than Federal.
It's still not Winchester, but Win is usually my first pick except for 9mm.

uncle albert

djkeebz
04-27-2008, 16:38
I have some .223 that has a "H C 5.56" headstamp. Has anyone ever reloaded this before. I got it from a friend after we were shooting it out of his AR. It was in Mil-Surp type boxes, was brass cases and cleaned up nice after I tumbled it. Just wondering if anyone knows what this is or if I should attempt to reload it or not?

VN350X10
04-27-2008, 19:17
Suggest you look inside the case with a strong light.
If there is a single hole, it should be reloadable.
If there are multiple holes, it's Berdan primed & not reloadable by normal means & should be considered scrap.
Sorry, but I've not seen that headstamp, so this is the only suggestion I have.

uncle albert

djkeebz
04-29-2008, 13:53
Suggest you look inside the case with a strong light.
If there is a single hole, it should be reloadable.
If there are multiple holes, it's Berdan primed & not reloadable by normal means & should be considered scrap.
Sorry, but I've not seen that headstamp, so this is the only suggestion I have.

uncle albertIt has a single hole. I guess i will try a few out and see how they hold up.

Sgt Hickk
05-02-2008, 17:34
Hi everyone...just thought ya would like to know that I just primed up 500 S&B cases in 45 ACP...didn't have no even one primer problem..all loaded just fine ( Good Brass )

MisterLady27
05-06-2008, 14:39
Howdy All,

1. I picked up some CCI brass at a range in Des Moines over the weekend. (Not my regular place to shoot.) A bunch of it is CCI headstamps with silver primers. It looks good. My usual method of sorting includes segregating the once fired cases - I can tell the WIN and the Federal by the gold primer color - so here is the question since I've not bought any CCI factory stuff for a ling time---

2. Factory CCI .40 S&W has what color primers????:headscratch:

3. Another comment - the primers showed a raised donut around the pin strike, but wasn't flattened at the edges as I understand pressure signs to look. More like a hard firing pin hit or soft primer metal.

Thanks,

ML27

gary newport
05-06-2008, 15:18
Howdy All,

1. I picked up some CCI brass at a range in Des Moines over the weekend. (Not my regular place to shoot.) A bunch of it is CCI headstamps with silver primers. It looks good. My usual method of sorting includes segregating the once fired cases - I can tell the WIN and the Federal by the gold primer color - so here is the question since I've not bought any CCI factory stuff for a ling time---

2. Factory CCI .40 S&W has what color primers????:headscratch:

3. Another comment - the primers showed a raised donut around the pin strike, but wasn't flattened at the edges as I understand pressure signs to look. More like a hard firing pin hit or soft primer metal.

Thanks,

ML27

Sounds like Blazer Brass. CCI primers are still nickel-plated, as far as I know (as is Federal; Winchester is not, haven't seen any Remington lately).

A slightly over-length firing pin, heavy spring or lube in the chamber could cause cratering without excessive pressure.

ShaneS
05-14-2008, 22:03
I have used Winchester, Remington, Starline, Blazer Brass, Speer and Federal with good success in 9mm. 45 ACP, .38 special and .357 mag.

I have used S&B in .45 ACP and .357 mag. with good success. The pockets were tighter but didn't pose a problem. I don't think I've been as successful with 9mm S&B brass.

I prefer Remington, Winchester and Lake City for .223 brass. I recycle the Federal and anything else. Lake City is top notch.

mrwilson
05-15-2008, 05:35
What about WCC 90 .38 Special brass? Bought some from a forum member, never seen it before. Primers looked crimped but not sealed. The military isn't still using .38 spl are they?

gwalchmai
05-15-2008, 06:01
What about WCC 90 .38 Special brass? Bought some from a forum member, never seen it before. Primers looked crimped but not sealed. The military isn't still using .38 spl are they? I don't know if the mil is still using .38 SPL anymore, but I've found all the WCC brass to be excellent.

just for fun
05-15-2008, 06:34
magtech 38 special brass had split side after 3 reloading using 148 LWC target loads. seems to be very brittle. This was 3-4 rounds per 50.

Bert.40
05-15-2008, 18:16
Recently I had a bulge in the CCI brass after seating the bullet. It didn't fit the case gage. Now I throw CCI brass away.

ShaneS
05-15-2008, 18:19
Recently I had a bulge in the CCI brass after seating the bullet. It didn't fit the case gage. Now I throw CCI brass away.

What caliber? I haven't had any trouble with CCI brass in 9mm and .45 ACP.

Jeff82
05-15-2008, 21:19
I'm having trouble reloading my .32-.380 brass...







:supergrin:

DucknCover
05-20-2008, 16:46
I have some 45ACP with a WW headstamp, I believe it is a version of winchester.
Is there any difference between nickel plated brass and brass without the nickel plating?
I noticed that the few 45 ACP +P brass I have found are nickel plated.

VN350X10
05-20-2008, 17:33
Nickel played brass tends to be more brittle & can usually be reloaded fewer times before cracking than non-plated brass.
Also, grit can get embedded in the plating, scratching your dies.

Personally, I avoid it.

uncle albert

Jack22
05-22-2008, 20:22
What about Remington UMC for 45 ACP? Elsewhere, some have said you can't reload it, but I can't find a consensus.

VN350X10
05-22-2008, 20:36
If someone can't reload Rem-UMC brass, they probably can't walk & chew gum at the same time either....
I personally prefer Win. brass in .45ACP, but Rem. is excellent also.

uncle albert

hyper-glock
05-25-2008, 20:19
Agree completely about AMERC - total junk.

++++++++++++++++

Had a friend who regularly reloaded Wolf .45ACP steel cases. (He modified the rims somehow and shot the reloads in his .455 Webley.) I found some of the casings after he shot and asked him about them. Said he reloaded them 3 to 4 times with no more problems than with brass except they required a little more force, than brass, to resize in his carbide dies.

I tried reloading them after that and found they worked O.K.. I made up a few hundred to use at ranges where I couldn't recover the cases. I don't use them now as I have all the brass pickups I need. I do occasionally save .45 Wolf if I find a bunch of fresh ones with no rust. I tumble them and store them for a "rainy day" when brass cases may be difficult to get. (Another advantage of steel cases is that they're easy to recover with a magnet.)

+++++++++++++++++

A year or so ago I bought a used Tec 9. I took it to the range and it blew up on the first round. I was shooting Winchester white box. I found a copy of the Tec-9 owner's manual on the Web. It said not to use Winchester ammo in the Tec 9 as the Winchester brass is too thin. I wouldn't have believed that, except for my experience.

Bert.40
05-25-2008, 20:38
What caliber? I haven't had any trouble with CCI brass in 9mm and .45 ACP.

.40 S&W

VN350X10
05-25-2008, 22:43
hyper-glock, I find reason to think that the problem was FAR more to do with the Tec-9 than the Win. ammo.
"Real" guns seem to work just fine on it.
Perhaps you should have taken the matter up with the people who built the Tec-9, using the services of a good product-liability lawyer. He could have probably gotten a tech person from Win. to testify on your behalf.
NOBODY hates lawyers more than myself, but it seems that this time one would have been useful !

uncle albert

Need to add:
Winchester makes NATO spec 9mm ammo, also loaded the "+P+" for the IL State Police for many years. Would the Tec-9 folks consider ammo meeting those specs to be "defective" also ?

MustangGreg66
05-26-2008, 02:02
Originally Posted by ShaneS
What caliber? I haven't had any trouble with CCI brass in 9mm and .45 ACP.

.40 S&W

yea, I shot some .40 S&W factory ammo from CCI, I think it was the blazer brand, but in the brass cases. It seems like it's a tad thinner than normal brass. Most of my shells come out with a little bulge from the glock, but I measured the stuff from CCI, even with light reloads, these expanded more than reloades using magtec brass.

hyper-glock
05-26-2008, 18:16
The people who built the Tec-9 have been out of business for quite a while. I wasn't hurt and the dealer who sold me the gun reimbursed me for my loss. It seems like Winchester would have taken exception to the publication of the notice about its ammo in the manual. Also, what would be the motivation of the Tec-9 people in publishing this, if there weren't a problem? (Maybe it was true at the time and has since been corrected.)


hyer-glock

hyper-glock, I find reason to think that the problem was FAR more to do with the Tec-9 than the Win. ammo.
"Real" guns seem to work just fine on it.
Perhaps you should have taken the matter up with the people who built the Tec-9, using the services of a good product-liability lawyer. He could have probably gotten a tech person from Win. to testify on your behalf.
NOBODY hates lawyers more than myself, but it seems that this time one would have been useful !

uncle albert

Need to add:
Winchester makes NATO spec 9mm ammo, also loaded the "+P+" for the IL State Police for many years. Would the Tec-9 folks consider ammo meeting those specs to be "defective" also ?

VN350X10
05-26-2008, 20:15
Maybe there's a reason they're out of business !

Glad to hear the dealer stood behind it....sounds like someone who should get your business again since he was so upright about it.
I've been loading for over 30 yrs. and had never heard a complaint about Win. brass in ANY caliber; All of my personal .45ACP & my "serious" .44 Mag ammo get loaded in Win. exclusivly.
Also glad to hear you wern't hurt in the incident.

load safe

uncle albert

BullsEye10X
05-26-2008, 21:41
I just loaded my first batch of .38 Special rounds using PPU headstamped (Prvi Partizan) once fired brass. It worked great and seemed very strong compared to a lot of other brands.

Incidentally, I could not get a decent crimp on several R-P (Remington) cases (using Lee deluxe pistol dies and FCD). They worked fine on everything else. I did a bit of reading and it seems many people have had similar issues with R-P brass. Apparently they are somewhat thin-walled and can make it difficult to size/crimp consistently.

VN350X10
05-26-2008, 22:00
Good to hear a report on the PPU brass, not much of it shows up here in the Midwest.
Will file this good news for reference.

uncle albert

BullsEye10X
05-26-2008, 22:02
I'll let everyone know more after I shoot it :supergrin:

VN350X10
05-26-2008, 22:04
appreciate it !

uncle albert

MustangGreg66
05-27-2008, 14:14
Agree completely about AMERC - total junk.

++++++++++++++++

...

I tried reloading them after that and found they worked O.K.. I made up a few hundred to use at ranges where I couldn't recover the cases. I don't use them now as I have all the brass pickups I need. I do occasionally save .45 Wolf if I find a bunch of fresh ones with no rust. I tumble them and store them for a "rainy day" when brass cases may be difficult to get. (Another advantage of steel cases is that they're easy to recover with a magnet.)



hmm, I've always thought how cool it would be if I could use a magnet to pick up my brass, even thought about steel primers or something like that (but that would never work) Anyway, I never thought to try to reload the wolf steel cases (because I've never shot any), it seems like they would be perfect for places where it would be difficult to recover brass, simply because you could use a magnet to pick them up.

I go shooting out on some BLM land and our favorite burm over the last couple years has been overrun by thistle weeds that are no more than ancle to shin high. Usually we just shoot and don't worry about the brass for fear of getting stuck so much, but since I've started to reload so much lately, it almost hurts to throw away good brass like that. Steel cases would be great in this instance, just use a long magnet on a stick to recover them... I might have to reconsider wolf ammo at the next gunshow... Then again, I get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach about putting more ware on my gun shooting these.

Jeff82
05-27-2008, 15:13
just use a long magnet on a stick to recover them...
Make it a battery powered electro-magnet with a thumb switch...

BullsEye10X
06-06-2008, 13:53
I just got back from the range and tried out my first batches of home-made .38's. They all worked great! No issues at all with the PPU brass; I'll be loading them up again as soon as they come out of the tumbler.

Incidentally, I measured the case wall thickness of these (and several others) when I was having problems sizing older R-P stuff. The PPU casings were actually the thickest at ~ .011, whereas the R-P was .009 or less. So I'd think they will stand up to hot loads just fine.

deadite
06-10-2008, 17:38
So far, because of CAS, I've only loaded 45 Colt and 38 Special, so take my word with a grain of salt.

I have a handfull of 45 Colt brass from Buffalo Bore. It says something like,"Buffalo Bore Heavy 45 Colt" on the headstamp. I wish I had a thousand cases to load of that brass. It seems to me like the brass is thicker and stronger than any other 45 Colt brass I've used. I feel like I could reload those cases a zillion times and have no problems.

For some reason, the primer pockets in PMC brass seem easier to clean with that little Lee Primer Pocket cleaner tool than other brands.

Question, are some primer pockets concave at the bottom? The little Lee Primer Pocket cleaning tool, I mentioned earlier, has a flat cleaning surface and sometimes it fails to get stuff near the flash hole. That makes me believe that some pockets are concave down there. :)

deadite

VN350X10
06-10-2008, 20:25
It depends on the brass. Most primer pockets & flash holes are done in a stamping/punching operation.
If you ever need rifle brass, use Laupua & you'll be spoiled for life. They drill the flash holes & the primer pockets are CNC machined !


uncle albert

deadite
06-10-2008, 20:45
Neat!

deadite

It depends on the brass. Most primer pockets & flash holes are done in a stamping/punching operation.
If you ever need rifle brass, use Laupua & you'll be spoiled for life. They drill the flash holes & the primer pockets are CNC machined !


uncle albert

Land G19
06-19-2008, 02:34
hmm, I've always thought how cool it would be if I could use a magnet to pick up my brass, even thought about steel primers or something like that (but that would never work) Anyway, I never thought to try to reload the wolf steel cases (because I've never shot any), it seems like they would be perfect for places where it would be difficult to recover brass, simply because you could use a magnet to pick them up.

I go shooting out on some BLM land and our favorite burm over the last couple years has been overrun by thistle weeds that are no more than ancle to shin high. Usually we just shoot and don't worry about the brass for fear of getting stuck so much, but since I've started to reload so much lately, it almost hurts to throw away good brass like that. Steel cases would be great in this instance, just use a long magnet on a stick to recover them... I might have to reconsider wolf ammo at the next gunshow... Then again, I get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach about putting more ware on my gun shooting these.

I have a cow pasture with a nice tall 20' berm I shoot into. I just get a big blue tarp, and weight the corners down with rocks or something and then place one rock in teh middle to push it through the tall grass and it helps funnel all the brass to the middle of the tarp as well.

When im done shooting I just gather up the brass on the tarp and call it a day. But you will have to figure out where your guns throw most of the brass in order to get the tarp in the best place.

hyper-glock
06-19-2008, 11:11
I have a cow pasture with a nice tall 20' berm I shoot into. I just get a big blue tarp, and weight the corners down with rocks or something and then place one rock in teh middle to push it through the tall grass and it helps funnel all the brass to the middle of the tarp as well.

When im done shooting I just gather up the brass on the tarp and call it a day. But you will have to figure out where your guns throw most of the brass in order to get the tarp in the best place.

Since the steel cases are not in demand by reloaders and have no significant scrap metal value, they're pretty easy to find (and even to pick up w/ a magnet) after the original owner shot them. So why bother even looking for them if you're shooting somewhere cases are hard to recover? I pick the steel cases up when they're easy to get and keep a supply handy. I have 100-200 reloaded for the occasional times they'll be hard to recover. If it's a place they're hard to recover, I just leave them with no regrets. I really don't want to reload them very often anyway.

Land G19
06-19-2008, 15:23
Since the steel cases are not in demand by reloaders and have no significant scrap metal value, they're pretty easy to find (and even to pick up w/ a magnet) after the original owner shot them. So why bother even looking for them if you're shooting somewhere cases are hard to recover? I pick the steel cases up when they're easy to get and keep a supply handy. I have 100-200 reloaded for the occasional times they'll be hard to recover. If it's a place they're hard to recover, I just leave them with no regrets. I really don't want to reload them very often anyway.

I dont worry about the steel cases from my AK or M38 either. I was referring to the brass cases. Some times I like to get in some pistol practice as well and that brass gets found.

Beware Owner
06-21-2008, 10:14
Wolf Ammunition brass?

gary newport
06-23-2008, 14:41
Last Friday, I was cranking out .45 ACP loads on my Dillon when one case felt very strange in the powder die. I removed it from the press and checked the headstamp -- Amerc!

I sorted out about 10 of these things from my bin of cleaned brass. :steamed:

How bad is Armscor .45 ACP brass? I've got a baggie of perhaps 250 virgin cases I claimed from a shooting league prize table.

VN350X10
06-23-2008, 20:07
Gary,
Armscor is usable, I've gotten 4 or 5 loadings out of it to test.

A-Merc is without a doubt the WORST mfgr. to try & reload.
It's made as a loss-leader type ammo, for mass merchandising sales, such as "Cheaper Than Dirt" and others.
The resultant quality shows !

uncle albert

M4inCA
06-23-2008, 20:17
Yer the only one tout'n CCI and I would like others input on it.
Good/bad?

LOVE CCI...

I load CCI/*I*/Speer as my IDPA brass with GREAT results. Consistant across the board, EZ fit primer pockets. Smooth as butter on my 650.

Papucho
06-29-2008, 11:48
Ive just ran into 500 units of brass marked with five stars *****. Has anybody used them? What brand are they? Thanks.

VN350X10
06-29-2008, 16:53
Is there any other marking on the headstamp ?
I don't show any reference to brass with a 5-star marking.

uncle albert

Papucho
06-29-2008, 17:28
Here is a pic of the brass.

152829

Jeff82
06-29-2008, 21:19
Here is a pic of the brass.

152829

Who ever it was, looks like their firing pin is dragging...

Apocalypse_Now
09-05-2008, 11:38
I think you should remove Speer from the not as good section!

Several of the "not as good" are just fine reloading brass

HiredGun77
09-23-2008, 01:40
Brass varies batch to batch. Lots if you will. I have had Remington, Winchester and Starline that failed at a 60% rate on it's first firing. in 40S&W and 10MM those failures were body splits and severe smilies even with very mild loads. A different batch all worked ffine even with max loads and have gone 20 firings. i don't retire pistol brass until it gets a case mouth crack. 357 and 44 magnum brass doesn't last near as long.

target4fun
09-30-2008, 15:04
PPU brass in 45 is garbage it stalls up my machine every time as does FC marked brass. I would stay away from these just as you would Amerc brass.

PPU may be okay in other cal's but not in 45 ... it jammed my machine every single time!

gary newport
09-30-2008, 15:26
PPU brass in 45 is garbage it stalls up my machine every time as does FC marked brass. I would stay away from these just as you would Amerc brass.

PPU may be okay in other cal's but not in 45 ... it jammed my machine every single time!

FC is Federal Cartridge: I've had no problems with Federal brass in .45 ACP/GAP. :dunno:

167
11-01-2008, 00:20
The Monarch brand stuff you can get at Academy Sports has the PPU headstamp, does that mean it is Prvi Partizan with another name on it?

380Seecamp
11-23-2008, 09:16
I'm having trouble reloading my .32-.380 brass...







:supergrin:

I think I see your problem . . .

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG32_0924D.jpg

You've done the conversion backward; 'sposed to neck down the .380 to .32, not the other way around.

:rofl:

VN350X10
11-23-2008, 10:34
Might be easier to reload if the bullet was big enough to hold without using tweezers....

uncle albert

380Seecamp
11-23-2008, 13:22
:thumbsup:I'm having trouble reloading my .32-.380 brass...







:supergrin:


Here's the correct ammo for your .32-380:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii312/380Seecamp/32-380_Auto.jpg?t=1227467819

I had a "Homer Simpson" moment after reading your post, and came up with this .32-380 Auto Wildcat Cartridge.

:supergrin:

Jeff82
11-23-2008, 19:31
Now THAT is great followup!! :supergrin: :wavey:

Beware Owner
11-23-2008, 23:08
:thumbsup:


Here's the correct ammo for your .32-380:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii312/380Seecamp/32-380_Auto.jpg?t=1227467819

I had a "Homer Simpson" moment after reading your post, and came up with this .32-380 Auto Wildcat Cartridge.

:supergrin:

You are wrong in so many ways!!!

VN350X10
11-23-2008, 23:10
Bet the headspace is tight !

JML2365
12-04-2008, 00:45
I got received a couple handfulls of NNY, NPA and CBC brass mixed in a lot of 2500 9mm casings I recently bought. I tried to reload them for "lost brass matches" and I gave up and tossed them. The primers were really tight and some of them would not go in. I am loading with a Dillon SQB with Remington primers.

380Seecamp
12-04-2008, 05:16
I got received a couple handfulls of NNY, NPA and CBC brass mixed in a lot of 2500 9mm casings I recently bought. I tried to reload them for "lost brass matches" and I gave up and tossed them. The primers were really tight and some of them would not go in. I am loading with a Dillon SQB with Remington primers.


The Hansen (nny) brass in 9mm (late 1980s manufacture) has a small flash hole that has pulled the decapping pin out of my RCBS Rock Chucker press more than once. While the quality of the brass appears to be good otherwise, I don't reload this brand any more.

I have one other case in 9mm headstamped "RA 68" that had a small flash hole and stole my deprimer out of the press; don't have a large quantity of this stuff to tell whether this one was a fluke or not. It appears to have a military crimp on the primer pocket as well.

Never had a problem with Magtech (CBC) brass; in fact, I gave all I had in .45 Auto to a friend when he got started reloading. This brand is common at one of the ranges I visit (when I'm not shooting at my own gun club). I've bought 5 gallon buckets of mixed brass from them in the past, so I've used a bit of CBC brass over the years without problem.

I found this web site interesting with regard to headstamp codes:

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

Charly
12-04-2008, 08:57
I am also a fan of CBC brass (Magtech) which I am using in priority to the rest I have in 9mm

JML2365
12-05-2008, 00:54
I had one of the primers not want to go in the CBC brass and I had already gotten frustrated so to say with the other brands and I only had 5 or 6 CBC cases I just chucked them. In all I chucked about 15 cases total.

novaDAK
12-16-2008, 21:25
Winchester (Winchester, WIN, WCC?)
WCC actually stands for Western Cartridge Company, which is also found on military brass.

Winchester also can have a "W-W" headstamp, which stands for "winchester - Western" since winchester bought out western ammo.

I have some "peters" brass which I assume is old, because that is what the "P" stands for in remington's current "R-P" headstamp.

Beware Owner
12-16-2008, 21:53
The Hansen (nny) brass in 9mm (late 1980s manufacture) has a small flash hole that has pulled the decapping pin out of my RCBS Rock Chucker press more than once. While the quality of the brass appears to be good otherwise, I don't reload this brand any more.

I have one other case in 9mm headstamped "RA 68" that had a small flash hole and stole my deprimer out of the press; don't have a large quantity of this stuff to tell whether this one was a fluke or not. It appears to have a military crimp on the primer pocket as well.

All my Remington brass in .357 Sig pull out my decapping pin. They're marked R-P.

whenmonkeysfly
01-09-2009, 23:30
Lapua also seems to be excellent brass! (Limited pistol brass).

txbonds
01-16-2009, 05:34
Just went though a box of .38 special brass during depriming/sizing and have a mixture of winchester, wcc and bha.

If the wcc is western cartridge and the bha is black hills, are these two considered to be in the good or bad category? I gathered the winchester was good from posts above, but didn't see anything on black hills and noticed someone pointed out wcc was western and not winchester.

Also, I've got some silver cartridges stamped R-P but they are at least 20 years old or more I'm guessing as they were my grandfathers. I shot the rounds the other day at the range and picked them up, but can't tell the material. They are lighter than the other brass. Best to avoid these and pitch in the recycle bin?

gwalchmai
01-16-2009, 06:13
Just went though a box of .38 special brass during depriming/sizing and have a mixture of winchester, wcc and bha.

If the wcc is western cartridge and the bha is black hills, are these two considered to be in the good or bad category? I gathered the winchester was good from posts above, but didn't see anything on black hills and noticed someone pointed out wcc was western and not winchester.

Also, I've got some silver cartridges stamped R-P but they are at least 20 years old or more I'm guessing as they were my grandfathers. I shot the rounds the other day at the range and picked them up, but can't tell the material. They are lighter than the other brass. Best to avoid these and pitch in the recycle bin?WCC is good stuff - mil, I think. BHA is fine, too. The R-P is probably just nickle Remington-Peters brass. I don't think they had aluminum back then. Look down into the case. If there's only one charge hole you're good to go. If two, recycle it.

Remember, low pressure cartridges like .38 SPL can be reloaded until the mouths split. ;)

txbonds
01-16-2009, 07:33
WCC is good stuff - mil, I think. BHA is fine, too. The R-P is probably just nickle Remington-Peters brass. I don't think they had aluminum back then. Look down into the case. If there's only one charge hole you're good to go. If two, recycle it.

Remember, low pressure cartridges like .38 SPL can be reloaded until the mouths split. ;)


Thanks. I'll take a look. The low pressure thing is what has me thinking about picking up a .45 acp at some point rather than reloading for 9mm and .40 for my G35.

gwalchmai
01-16-2009, 07:51
Yep, .45 ACP is very forgiving and for many is the first round to reload. Was for me. I should explain about the "two holes", I guess. Many european ammo makers (and Speer, with their aluminum Blazer stuff) use Berdan primers, which require a totally different setup to reload than what most US (Boxer primed) makers use. Berdan primers use two charge holes, so most folks chuck 'em.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berdan_primer#Berdan_primer) may be more than you want to know... ;)

txbonds
01-16-2009, 08:53
Yep, .45 ACP is very forgiving and for many is the first round to reload. Was for me. I should explain about the "two holes", I guess. Many european ammo makers (and Speer, with their aluminum Blazer stuff) use Berdan primers, which require a totally different setup to reload than what most US (Boxer primed) makers use. Berdan primers use two charge holes, so most folks chuck 'em.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berdan_primer#Berdan_primer) may be more than you want to know... ;)


I think they are single hole cases, but will take a look.

I forgot to mention I also have a handful of blazer brass that is "gold" colored, so I'm assuming it really is the brass stuff and not the alum. Is blazer brass considered okay also?

Thanks again for the feedback.

gwalchmai
01-16-2009, 09:10
Yep. "brass" Blazer brass should be fine.

txbonds
01-16-2009, 09:56
Yep. "brass" Blazer brass should be fine.

Thanks. I only had about 125 of the .38 special cases, so the brand variety is limited.

Now, when I pop open my 9mm cases to start loading some of them, I've got a bin with about 2,000 or more in it I'm guessing, so there will probably be lots of case brand variety in it. LOL

In other words, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon. :whistling:

Thanks again.

byf43
02-07-2009, 21:23
heh... I suppose it depends on how hot we are talking, but if it were ME, and you are shooting this out of a glock with the unsupported chamber, I would use new brass for some he-man loads.

The common response is that federal brass is junk. I use a few, but try to toss most of them out. They were redesigned at one point to make them a little more "burst proof" at the webbing, so they in theory should be OK with the newer stuff, but I just dont trust them. I have also seen some nastily bulged out rem. and win. brass. I would say if it were up to me, I guess speer. That seems to look a tad stronger just from looking at fired brass. I use my .40 less than other brass, with about 3 reloads or so before I toss them. I think the constant expansion on the brass from the "glock bulge" and resizing process weakens it a bit. Perhaps I am paranoid, but I really dont want to KB my glock if I can keep from it.

In all my years of reloading, I've used a LOT of Federal brass and really have good results using it.
Now, to be honest, I have just started loading .40 S&W.
I was given two bags (2,000+ pieces) of .40 S&W from a local police department's training division. (All the brass is now once-fired.)
The vast majority is Federal. Some Winchester, but mostly Federal.

Somebody, please explain why Federal is 'bad'.

I've used Starline ONCE. The Starline that I used (.45 acp) was total crap!

Also, Magtech brass (9mm) is terrible.
A friend bought some once fired 9mm and the primers came apart while sizing/de-priming, and we had to remove the 'ring' of the primer with a tiny screwdriver, after a new primer ignited while seating.
Avoid Magtech, like it has the plague.

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 08:11
FWIW: Information on American Ammunition, Inc (AAMU-OTC Pink Sheets):
American Ammunition, Inc., through its subsidiaries, engages in the design, manufacture, and sale of small arms ammunition for the wholesale and governmental markets. It also operates an electrochemical metallization facility for processing its line of projectiles, as well as other products and services. The company was founded in 1983 and is based in Miami, Florida. On September 23, 2008, American Ammunition, Inc along with its affiliate Industrial Plating Enterprise Co filed a voluntary petition for reorganization under Chapter 11 in the US Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Florida, Miami. ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=AAMU.PK )
A-MERC website: http://www.a-merc.com/ Seems to me they made frangible ammo for inside of aircraft use etc. I recall a video from their website at one time. Most of their news releases had to do with contracts for 5.56 mostly to Central and South American countries, as I recollect. I don't follow this company much these days.

I've reloaded their .45 ACP, but I will attest to sloppy primer pockets and off-center flash holes.

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 08:32
Jay Hansen, whom I know personally, is one of the major importers of 'NNY' (Prvi Partizan) ammunition. He travels regularly to eastern Europe and brings back container units of product...not in his carry-on, of course.

Hansen Cartridge Co. packaged ammo is usually Igman (IK) or perhaps PPU (Prvi Partizan). Don't quote me on the exact contents, but it's his own label on the package. The last box of HCC fodder I saw was .308 Win 180 gr SP 'Posi-Feed'. It was Igman, (IK Igman Zavod, Konjic, Yugoslavia)

Similarly, he used to package ammo under the name Connecticut Cartridge Co. (CCC). This brand may have been discontinued; I'll have to ask him.

He and his partner, Tom, own 'Hansen & Hansen Arms & Antiques' in Southport, CT
http://hansenguns.com/ I"ll throw this in for free... there is a fella (Dick) at Hansen's that comes in mostly on Thursdays. He is quite knowledgable on cartridges, headstamps, Remington history etc. If you have questions regarding Peters, RA, R-P, REM-UMC, etc., he'd probably know the answer. (He may not appreciate me telling you to barrage him with calls though!) Remember, the old Remington ammo plant is just up the road in Bridgeport. Hansens is also about a stones' throw from Lacey Place, the HQ of Sturm Ruger.

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 08:44
http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/d/17030-2/Igman.jpg (http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/v/Headstamp-Gallery/Letters_001/I/Igman.jpg.html) The Igman headstamp (i) with 6.5x55SE (6.5x55 Swedish) packaged in the Igman red and grey box and also as 'HOTSHOT' (distributed by: Century International Arms, Inc.) has a distinguishable red sealant around the primer. They have very small flash holes that pull the pin from my decapper punch. Once decapped and drilled slightly larger, the brass is good to go for reloads.

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 09:01
Winchester Non-Toxic and I think I've come across Federal Non-Toxic, too:

"WIN NT 45 AUTO" Segregate from large primer cases. Use small pistol primers and they work fine. Same with federal; don't have a Federal NT case handy.

Be careful with 45 GAP cases in the mix, too. Small primers!

One more observation on "WINCHESTER 45 AUTO" cases. I've come across many of these that have oversized flash holes...I'm talking 0.125" diameter! They work fine, but I don't know what lot number they are nor what they were produced for. I doubt they were someones "X-Ring" project since I've got several hundred of them.

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 09:22
Okay! I'll quit after this post... SHOOTING TIMES May 2008

Practical Reloading by Lane Peace...
"Steel-Cased Reloads, Cracks and Fireforming Wildcat Cases" pg.10

This is not a recomendation to do it, but I have reloaded Wolf steel 45 ACP many times (same with steel-cased 7.62x39, 8mm etc). I can't vouch for higher pressure rounds such as 9mm and 40 S&W, but I find the steel cases do work well, especially the polymer-coated ones vs. the lacquered variety. Be mindful of potential workhardening issues and possible wear on your dies (none found to date). I must have reloaded these cases a half dozen times or more.

And do pass on those Wolf cases that are heavily rusted! You needn't reload every case on the ground!

Berdan-primed rifle cases: If you can find berdan primers, you can salvage many of the berdan-primed cases and reload them. I won't attempt to list the good, bad and ugly at this time, except...

Swiss 7.5x55 GP-11 Standard fodder for the K31 offered from Grafs, CTD, SG, etc:
Excellent brass, decaps easily with water and .30 cal punch (w/o pin).
The headstamps on GP11 rounds can be read as thus; The numbers at the top and bottom of the case represents the month and year of manufacture, respectively. The letter to the left of the headstamp represents where the case was manufactured, while the letter to the right represent the finally assembly point of the cartridge. Letters used include D=Dornach, A=Altdorf, and T=Thun from http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/#7.5

Wolf steel decaps readily with the above process, too. You may use a bread wrapper (plastic bag) to help seal loose fits or neck-size if you want to bother. Some may figure why bother for the price etc...me, too! But, it can be done, that's all.

RCBS has a decapping tool for berdan primers, but I don't find it to be 100%. Assuming you have a source for berdan primers, you have many more brass sources available to you. Some of the stuff just doesn't decap easily and maybe hard to f-l resize, so scrap that stuff. You should be able to get 80% recovery, so that makes it a go in my book.

Oh...I'll gladly scoff up that GP11 brass, guys!

VN350X10
02-08-2009, 10:34
The Win brass (.45 ACP) with the large flash holes is some of the earlier lead free primer brass. It can be used for any normal .45 ACP loads, but is not recomended for a "+P" loading.
All normal data works well in these cases & I have personally loaded several thousands of them for bullseye & USPSA loads with excellent results. It's not even really necessary to seggregate them from normal brass with a standard size flash hole, as given the low operating pressures of the .45ACP, it doesn't make a lot of difference in velocity.

uncle albert

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 11:12
Thanks VN350X10 !

I knew it was some sort of production run, but wasn't sure what it was exactly.

...and...speaking of 45 ACP +P, where do you find most of your load data on that? Or do you use a general rule, like x% more than the listed maximum for 45ACP? Not that I'm really concerned with loading +P, but I just don't usually see published load data.

VN350X10
02-08-2009, 12:09
CTSixshot,
I really don't do much with +P .45ACP, except an occasional run of 185 JHPT for bowling pins !

My 2 favorite calibers are .44 Magnum & 10MM, so I don't have much need for the 45"extra". I only do it because the range that we shoot pins at has a rule for the pin shoots, no magnums & no 10MM.(a properly loaded 10MM is on the lower end of .41 Mag ballistics !)
I don't remember my exact pin load, as I load them about once a year, I make large runs of ammo. But it's BlueDot & pushing the Rem 185 JHPT right around 1150 fps from my comped/optic Springfield 1911. Takes a pin off the table clean !

uncle albert

CTSixshot
02-08-2009, 18:43
VN350X10 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=10674)

Roger that! I'd better not reply after this, since I'm off the topic of this thread.
I don't recall any clubs here in CT restricting calibers as to pin shoots; is that to keep from busting the pins up too much, or due to ricochet potential? One club does pin shoots with rifle, but limits it to pistol-caliber carbines in winter in order to spare (sorry!) the pins a bit.

Out!

VN350X10
02-08-2009, 20:35
Not to worry about the off-topic, happens all the time here !

Yeah, we've gone to a .22RF only format this year.
The bowling alley that used to give us the pins now wants to charge for them.
They have to pay disposal on them if we don't take them, but the new owner of the alley is a cheap _________ !
So the .22's are a LOT easier on them, as I haven't figured out how to load my own .22 RF. (YET !)

I really like using my .44 AutoMag, but not many places have anything goes pin shoots nearby.

uncle albert

mjk
02-16-2009, 11:01
What about Frontier brass? A quick search says it was Hornady way back when.
I have one 45 acp that says FC Match 62. Is this Federal from 1962?

gwalchmai
02-16-2009, 11:35
What about Frontier brass? A quick search says it was Hornady way back when.
I have one 45 acp that says FC Match 62. Is this Federal from 1962?yep. FC is military made by Federal Cartridge. Commercial says Federal.

Rickenbacker53
03-17-2009, 11:54
Hey Guys how do you know what the brass manufacturer was say on 3d blue bullets ..I am assuming Magtech bullets uses Magtech brass..But over-all how do you know..there's nothing I can see on the brass of a factory round. I have shot 1000's of factory loaded rounds of 45 and 40 in my back yard ..I always saved the brass so like for 40 smith I have 2 5Gallon pails full..All different types..Back than I was shooting whatever the gunshop had the best price on. Can I assume if the factory thought it was ok it is??

gwalchmai
03-17-2009, 11:58
IIRC, 3D brass is just marked 3D, or maybe 3-D.

Magtech brass has a CBC headstamp - Compania Brasillia Cartouches (rough translation).

HAVOC
03-17-2009, 12:09
I dunno about ELD being in the good category. I've only worked with it in 10mm, but it wasn't very good. It was long, thick and soft. I had to cull it out of my mixed stamp plinking brass because it would just crimp to holy hell and get a ripple.

Little surprise, was just a marketing name for PMC.

TrooperBrian
03-22-2009, 01:23
So I found a bag of Frontier brass, which as mentioned above is made by Hornady. But is it so old that I should keep it as a collector item instead of reloading it?

I also found a bag of PSD brass, and I can't seem to find information on it anywhere. Anyone?

gwalchmai
03-22-2009, 06:04
According to these guys (http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm), PSD was made by PMC. I haven't found them wrong, yet.

380Seecamp
03-22-2009, 06:56
So I found a bag of Frontier brass, which as mentioned above is made by Hornady. But is it so old that I should keep it as a collector item instead of reloading it?

. . .

I'm on my sixth reload of some nickel-plated Frontier .357 magnum brass. I don't stoke it with full-power loads any more, but this batch appears to have a good long life ahead of it. The "brass" is starting to show through the nickel finish, but it's holding up well otherwise.

TrooperBrian
03-22-2009, 20:58
According to these guys (http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm), PSD was made by PMC. I haven't found them wrong, yet.
Nice find with that site, I'm seeing "Poongsan Metal Manufacturing Company Ltd., Seoul, Republic of Korea (probably at the Dongrae Ammunition Plant)"...sounds sketchy to me...

dudley
03-22-2009, 22:03
Federal for 223 BAD

Beware Owner
03-22-2009, 22:25
Nice find with that site, I'm seeing "Poongsan Metal Manufacturing Company Ltd., Seoul, Republic of Korea (probably at the Dongrae Ammunition Plant)"...sounds sketchy to me...

If it doesn't say "Pootietang Metal Manufacturing," it's a fake. :rofl:

TrooperBrian
03-24-2009, 18:04
Federal for 223 BAD
Any claims on this? I've used FC brass for a long time and have yet to run into a single problem. Most of the time it was because I didn't ream out the primer pocket enough.

Fire_Medic
03-24-2009, 18:13
Anyone know what brand "PPU" brass is?

Good or Bad?

:dunno:

gwalchmai
03-24-2009, 18:29
Anyone know what brand "PPU" brass is?

Good or Bad?Prvi Partizan, 31000 Titovo, Uzice, Yugoslavia (see above link)

Most of the yooropean brass I've run into (S&B, Gecco, etc) is OK, with some calibers being better among brands. I've reloaded a few PPU in 9mm and had no problems.

380Seecamp
03-24-2009, 18:29
PPU
Prvi Partizan, 31000 Titovo, Uzice, Yugoslavia

According to:

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

Don't think I've ever tried this brass.

Fire_Medic
03-24-2009, 18:31
Thanks guys I missed that, been sorting through brass today and couldn't figure that one out.

:wavey:

StoneDog
04-01-2009, 08:28
please delete

Messenger
04-02-2009, 14:25
A couple of weeks ago, due to the buying frenzy on ammo, I bought 3000 rounds of 45acp & 1000 rounds of 9mm, both by PMC. Being a newbe on Glock Talk I have learned that PMC is a little further down the food chain in quality than I thought. How many reloads would estimate I can get using 7.7gr of HS6 & 200gr plated semi-wadcutter ENC?

gwalchmai
04-02-2009, 15:07
A couple of weeks ago, due to the buying frenzy on ammo, I bought 3000 rounds of 45acp & 1000 rounds of 9mm, both by PMC. Being a newbe on Glock Talk I have learned that PMC is a little further down the food chain in quality than I thought. How many reloads would estimate I can get using 7.7gr of HS6 & 200gr plated semi-wadcutter ENC?You'll lose 'em before you wear 'em out. There's nothing wrong with PMC. Most of the difference between these brand is kinda like the "golden eared audiophile friend" who critiques your new stereo. It's moot in the real world.

billy396
04-16-2009, 14:23
I agree that there's nothing wrong with PMC. I love Starline - my favorite. I certainly agree that AMERC is junk and I won't even try loading it. I've had very mixed results with S&B. R-P (Remington) is definitely soft, but it will load.

VN350X10
04-16-2009, 15:57
billy396,

Remington handgun brass seems to be better for strength than their rifle brass. I can load R-P .45 ACP until I lose it, but I only get about 10-12 loadings from their .220 Swift brass. I don't push the Swift to the limit, but they are loaded to (ave over chrono)) 3875 with a 55 gr sp. for prarie dogs. A sod poodle doesn't know the difference between 3800 and 4100 fps. They still go SPLAT !

UNCLE ALBERT

88_gurgel
05-03-2009, 21:19
I got some .40 brass marked AG

What is that?

daurizio
05-29-2009, 10:41
i have been using fc for a long time without any problems... i think the key to being safe is not to use any brass more than three times.i know amerc brass is considered junk i have used them many times. after three reloads i dump them

gary newport
05-29-2009, 12:43
i have been using fc for a long time without any problems... i think the key to being safe is not to use any brass more than three times.i know amerc brass is considered junk i have used them many times. after three reloads i dump them

Welcome to GT! :wavey:

(I reload .45 GAP/ACP cases many more than three times. I have yet to have a safety issue because of that.)

Beware Owner
05-29-2009, 12:56
I got some .40 brass marked AG

What is that?

Another Gimmick.

ncfyrfyter
08-05-2009, 13:45
All of the NT stuff I came accross was 45 acp. It used small pistol primers instead of large. I didn't understand why, and I never attempted to load any of it.

The NT is the WinClean ammunition manufactured by Winchester. The box states that the brass is non-reloadable.

robert91922
08-06-2009, 02:07
.
Fiochi brass is stamped Fiochi
.

I have about 7 different types of Fiocchi 9mm rounds in my personal stock, but cases are all stamped GFL. Please check again.

380Seecamp
08-06-2009, 04:31
I have about 7 different types of Fiocchi 9mm rounds in my personal stock, but cases are all stamped GFL. Please check again.

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

This web site (above) lists F, LE, GFL, PS, and FIOCCHI headstamps for Fiocci. I've never seen the "FIOCCHI" headstamp myself. Got lots of "GFL" in my collection.

PAGlock
09-27-2009, 13:18
Ran across some more headstamps, good or bad?? Company?? Feel free to add to list.

C()J
L()Y
One looks like a circle with an i through it
Para at top, triangle shape at bottom
AP
GFL
LB-NTF
DNL
GECO
IMI
WRA
CCI N/R
CCI
LC
PMP
MM
S043
MFS

()=primer pocket

I just tried reloading 9mm with "*Geco*" headstamp. It is just as bad as Amerc. I used Lee sizer dies to resize brass fired from Glocks. Most other brass will resize just fine...these two suck! Just throw them away!

VN350X10
09-27-2009, 13:26
PAGlock,

Geco is usually very good brass.
In it's factory form, it IS loaded a bit hotter than U.S. standards, but is within NATO spec.
You may have encountered some with a bit harder than normal brass, sort them & try to run them by themselves.
I've loaded several thousand of them & they are prefered (by me) for hi-intensity loadings. I load all of my 9mm on a Lee 1000 press with an undersize sizing die (-.001), which is avaliable from Lee & don't have any problems with them other than an occasional tight primer pocket.
Use nickle plated primers, like CCI & they go easier.

A-Merc on the other hand, DO suck !!

uncle albert

G10mm
09-27-2009, 15:46
PPU
Prvi Partizan, 31000 Titovo, Uzice, Yugoslavia

According to:

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

Don't think I've ever tried this brass.

Thats a good sight to have :wow:

DEJ/FL
11-15-2009, 17:45
A word of advice, S&B (Seller & Belloit) 9MM cases have a brass appearance but you may want to use a magnet to just make sure. We sorted a bunch of brass and was supprised to find when we used a magnet to remove the other steel cases that the S&B 9MM brass was also being attracked.

Dan:cool:

jaybirdjtt
12-31-2009, 10:15
Just ran a powerful magnet over 1000+ 9mm cases recently deprimed. Some were S&B and none reacted to the magnet. Doesn't hurt to check.

mteagle1
12-31-2009, 15:27
http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

This web site (above) lists F, LE, GFL, PS, and FIOCCHI headstamps for Fiocci. I've never seen the "FIOCCHI" headstamp myself. Got lots of "GFL" in my collection.
The Fiocchi 40 S&W frangible are marked FIOCCHI.

RHVEtte
01-24-2010, 02:41
Don't know if they were already mentioned, but Wolf Gold apparently uses the same brass as Prvi (PPU in cyrillic, looks like nny headstamp), so it should be good stuff.

dougja
01-30-2010, 09:54
I just sorted through 12,000 9mm cases seperated in the following groups:
WIN
FC
RP
BLAZER
PMC

I came across quite a few "RG 08" cases that prompted my sorting adventure. They appear to be British, crimped. Does anyone know if the RG is good brass or bad brass?

Can someone help me with values per thousand of each.... I want to "un-load" them rather than reload them.

Thanks

SS1
01-30-2010, 12:51
Any one know anything about this head stamp? L C O A
It is on a federal 5.56
Reading as much info as I can on reloads and Love this thread,
Thank's to all.

mrwilson
01-30-2010, 15:47
RG would be Radway Green. British military. Never shot their 9mm but the 5.56 is good.

dougja
01-30-2010, 16:30
RG would be Radway Green. British military. Never shot their 9mm but the 5.56 is good.

Thank you Sir Wilson! The RG gave me a reason to buy a Dillon Swage 600. I can't bring myself to recycle the brass, spend $100 to save $20 :embarassed:

skf
02-02-2010, 10:16
Cabela's has offered to fill my backorder with Winchester .45acp that is not US made. I ordered the Winchester months ago because I wanted good cases to start reloading.

Does anybody know who the maker of this stuff is and what their brass is like? I don't remember for sure but I think they told me it was from Czech.

Thanks!

HOUNDAWG
02-21-2010, 14:38
http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

This web site (above) lists F, LE, GFL, PS, and FIOCCHI headstamps for Fiocci. I've never seen the "FIOCCHI" headstamp myself. Got lots of "GFL" in my collection.

I have some Fiocchi .40 S&W 170-grain FMJ. The headstamp is FIOCCHI USA but the box says Made in Hungary! I haven't reloaded any of these cases so I can't comment on their quality for reloading.

The only other Fiocchi ammo I have is .357 Mag with the GFL headstamp (made in Italy). I've had good results reloading these cases.

njl
02-27-2010, 08:26
http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

This web site (above) lists F, LE, GFL, PS, and FIOCCHI headstamps for Fiocci. I've never seen the "FIOCCHI" headstamp myself. Got lots of "GFL" in my collection.

I've got some of each (Fiocchi, GFL) in 9mm. The Fiocchi headstamped brass is from some 147gr FMJ I bought just over 4 years ago from Sportsmans Guide. The GFL has been range pickup brass.

njl
02-27-2010, 08:34
A word of advice, S&B (Seller & Belloit) 9MM cases have a brass appearance but you may want to use a magnet to just make sure. We sorted a bunch of brass and was supprised to find when we used a magnet to remove the other steel cases that the S&B 9MM brass was also being attracked.

Dan:cool:

All the steel cases I've seen have been berdan primed. Are there boxer primed steel?

njl
02-28-2010, 00:05
Hmm...I think S&B just made my pitch list. I've been using it for "lost brass" matches and have actually been able to recover most of it recently.

I was just loading some that was a mix of first reload brass and brass I'd already loaded and shot at least once. It was giving me a real hard time on the bell/powder drop station, not wanting to bell, and then not wanting to let go of the powder funnel. When I randomly gaged a few, a lot of them would fall into the gage, but needed to be pushed out. A few wouldn't fall all the way in. It seemed as though the brass was bulging around where the base of the seated bullet was. The Win and FC brass I loaded tonight all dropped in and out of the gage. I ended up gaging all the S&B and most of the Win and FC...and then tried dropping the questionable ones into my dirty G17 barrel. I ended up pulling 6 bullets and tossing 6 primed cases. I think I'll shoot up the S&B I've loaded and not try to recover it.

Tonight was the fist time I've loaded FC brass. It was amazingly easy compared to the S&B. It resized like it wasn't there, and didn't stick on the powder funnel at all.

Marksman44
02-28-2010, 13:53
Anyone familiar with the 9mm headstamp, DAG?

Njanear
02-28-2010, 16:01
Anyone familiar with the 9mm headstamp, DAG?

I know that DAG is a West German headstamp, but I have only seen it on 7.62x51mm cases myself.

MarcusT
03-14-2010, 11:19
Anyone familiar with the 9mm headstamp, DAG?

Yeah I got a few of them in some range brass and the flash hole is to small to punch out the primer so they go in the scrap bucket.

I keep seeing people saying S&B is bad but I have no problems with it on my dillon 550.

Linear Thinker
03-14-2010, 11:24
Anyone familiar with the 9mm headstamp, DAG?

DAG is Dynamit Nobel AG, the giant German munitions maker. I've shot their 9mm, 223, 7.62x51 and 50BMG ammo.
Their military headstamp is DAG, the commercial ammo is marketed as Geco.
They owned RWS as well last time I checked.
LT

BBJones
04-09-2010, 14:40
Had good luck with both AP and RAI in 9mm. Not sure who makes either but got some in once fired brass I ordered and it loads and shoots fine.

For people who have no trouble with S&B are you swaging it or not? I have a big pile of S&B but was going to swage it first since many people tend to complain about the primer pockets.

MarcusT
04-14-2010, 10:09
Had good luck with both AP and RAI in 9mm. Not sure who makes either but got some in once fired brass I ordered and it loads and shoots fine.

For people who have no trouble with S&B are you swaging it or not? I have a big pile of S&B but was going to swage it first since many people tend to complain about the primer pockets.

I have not swaged any of the S&B and have had no problems with CCI primers.

FlyfishermanMike
04-14-2010, 16:27
I have not swaged any of the S&B and have had no problems with CCI primers.

I just primed 50+ random range S&B's with CCI's and everything was as normal. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. This was in .45 though.

Aquanewt
05-06-2010, 02:08
I have to be honest, I'm not sure if this has come up in the previous 9 pages worth of posts, but I discard any military .38 spl I come up with (usually from commerial reloads) I reload flush seated wadcutters and as military brass tends to be thicker, the cases bulge around the loaded projectile. You can resize them but it's a lot of work when you consider the availabilty of commercial brass. I also tend to use +P brass for +P loads and avoid nickled cases for my wadcutters. Just my 2 cents

mboylan
05-30-2010, 18:44
S&B is good brass for reloading. It does have military crimped primer pockets. The primer pocket on once fired brass needs to be swaged just like most military brass. After that it's good to go and high quality.

Streetking
06-11-2010, 01:21
I load range brass. A lot of it shot from Glocks of which I own four. 19,20,26,23. I have heard on this forum that glock brasss cannot be reloaded. I have some that I shoot from my own glocks and have reloaded it 10+ times. It is not a problem when it is full length sized. I do reduce pressure on target loads and that has a significant impact on longevity.

Mattog22
08-15-2010, 21:45
Anyone have problems with Magtech .308 brass? I had some reloads that I thought were too hot running through my FAL. At a big 3 gun match I had some fail to eject, would put empty case back into chamber and lock up there. I started noticing that in my reloads it was only with the Magtech brass. I actually had the rim rip off of one and get left in the chamber. So I was going to take the blame thinking my loads were too hot and thought my Lake City could just stand up to it and the softer Magtech brass wouldn't. Now I have to blame Magtech. I had factory Magtech 147 gr .308 and had the same thing happen again today! This was factory brass! I turned the gas on the rifle to full open and still had stuck cases. You would see the rim bent from trying to get extracted. So I switched to federal soft points and even closed the gas off and they ran great. I am through with Magtech. Has anyone else had any problem like this?

robert91922
08-16-2010, 11:59
Recently I loaded 100 factory new MFS (hungarian) 9mm cases but had much problems with resizing. Although they were properly lubed with Dillon lube it was quite hard to push them in and pull them out of resizing die. Finally, when loaded, about 20 rounds were useless, cases were bulged at the bottom and didn't pass the chamber checker. I used Speer 130gr FMJ bullets. I'm reloading 9mm on friend's Dillon XL650 with Dillon dies and never had such problems although I pick & load almost every brass that could be found on range, after proper washing and tumbling, of course.
So, if you find some new cheap MFS 9mm brass be carefull, try at start some few before you buy a big bulk.

TheGrimReaper
08-17-2010, 19:02
Loaded RWS and it was good to go for me.

ColdShot
10-13-2010, 18:55
I recently got a batch of 9MM with the headstamp WCC 06 and it has a red dye around
the primers.....well they are a BIOTCH......I am not sure what the red dye is but when decapping the pockets get all messed up with metal filings and wont reprime in my 550B..
But the brass I have (asst) without that red dye is never a problem.....
Geezzz

alank2
10-13-2010, 18:59
Hi,

I recently got a batch of 9MM with the headstamp WCC 06 and it has a red dye around
the primers.....well they are a BIOTCH......I am not sure what the red dye is but when decapping the pockets get all messed up with metal filings and wont reprime in my 550B..
But the brass I have (asst) without that red dye is never a problem.....
Geezzz

Are they CRIMPED ? Look inside the primer pocket to see...

Thanks,

Alan

ColdShot
10-13-2010, 19:14
Hi,



Are they CRIMPED ? Look inside the primer pocket to see...

Thanks,

Alan

I just found out from Yankee that its military crimped brass......
I am not sure if its usable but wont work in my press

mboylan
10-13-2010, 19:30
I recently got a batch of 9MM with the headstamp WCC 06 and it has a red dye around
the primers.....well they are a BIOTCH......I am not sure what the red dye is but when decapping the pockets get all messed up with metal filings and wont reprime in my 550B..
But the brass I have (asst) without that red dye is never a problem.....
Geezzz

Military style brass. The primer pockets have to be swaged.

When I get stuff like that, I just form them into 9x18 cases. Since I'm going to have to go through an extra step anyway.

Bob2223
10-13-2010, 19:43
Used one for 10-12 years on crimped brass.

Guess it depends on how much you have or think you might get it the future ?


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=880694


Bob

ColdShot
10-15-2010, 04:15
Military style brass. The primer pockets have to be swaged.

When I get stuff like that, I just form them into 9x18 cases. Since I'm going to have to go through an extra step anyway.

so I have learned,I prefer not to do that extra step
I learned something new

TexasLongslide
11-04-2010, 16:00
Those of you having issues with S&B 9mm brass, try Federal primers. I loaded hundreds of them the other night with absolutely no primer issues.

Good
S&B
Winchester
Federal

Bad
NATO Brass

NATO brass only works about 1/3rd of the time, it destroys many a primer. I don't bother to pick it up.

njl
11-04-2010, 19:24
NATO brass likely has crimped primer pockets which need to be dealt with before you try repriming them.

Aquanewt
11-20-2010, 00:13
In my experience with .38 spl brass I have found the following to be helpful:
1: I seperate +P brass from regular and do not flush seat WC bullets in +P brass. Nickel Plated Brass +P seems to be even worse and the case bulges over the bullet unless it's a hollow base WC, and then the bullet distorts.
2: Once Fired brass is seperated by make. After it's reloaded once it becomes "Used Multiple times" brass and although loaded the same way, it's practice brass only. I will sometimes load up a batch of 2x brass for a match where I know I'm not going to recover it.
3: I seperate plated and non-plated brass in my " Used Multiple Times" Buckets
4: I do not reload .38 spl "military" head stamped brass as I find it's thicker and tends to bulge over the loaded bullet.

gwalchmai
11-20-2010, 06:07
I loaded some 124gr FMJ into once-fired 9mm S&B brass last night. They worked great, with only the slightest bit of extra resistance during priming. It may have been because I used Wolf SPPs. I'll measure the primers and see if they're slightly smaller. Maybe metric primers are slightly smaller than real ones...

sigman69
12-27-2010, 05:52
Geco brass any good I got some in 9mm.

AMERC is junk I dont even attempt to reload goes in the recycle bucket every time.

I have never had an issue with Winchester, and federal headstamped handgun brass. Some of the WCC with the NATO stamp had real tight primer pockets.

mboylan
12-27-2010, 12:36
Geco brass any good I got some in 9mm.

AMERC is junk I dont even attempt to reload goes in the recycle bucket every time.

I have never had an issue with Winchester, and federal headstamped handgun brass. Some of the WCC with the NATO stamp had real tight primer pockets.

You have to swage the primer pockets on all military brass. The 5.56 guys do it all the time. That doesn't make the brass good or bad. It adds a step the first time you reload it.

dt3ft
01-02-2011, 12:44
I don't agree with Winchester beeing good brass. Especially with the WSM or WSSM cartridge series I had the case mouth split. I experienced far better results with Norma brass.

good brass is:
Dynamit Nobel AG (DAG)
SAKO Ltd. (SAKO)
Lapua (LAPUA)
Rheinisch Westfalischen Sprengstoff (RWS)
Gustav Genschow & Co./Dynamit Nobel/RWS (Geco)


btw. afaik Eldorado Cartridge Corporation also has the headstamp PMC

robert91922
01-03-2011, 14:41
I have not swaged any of the S&B and have had no problems with CCI primers.
If you can find Fiocchi SP primers try them. They seat into S&B primer pockets much easier than CCI. I'm buying Fiocchi primers in Italy and probably they are available in USA as well. Beside better compatibility with S&B brass they cost less.

flipside101
01-16-2011, 11:01
I reloaded about 1,000 rounds of Sellier & Beloit (S&B) and have yet to have a issue. 9mm loads

firefighter4215
02-03-2011, 20:02
I ran across some 38 special brass with a S&W headstamp. They obviously have some age, but I doubt the age matters. Assuming they pass a visual inspection are they worth reloading? They're nickel plated also. I read online that Fiocchi made the ammo under contract. Anybody familiar with this stuff?

VN350X10
02-03-2011, 20:10
Could be Fiochhi, could be Federal. It would depend upon what bullet was in the brass OEM.
The S&W Nyclad was made by Federal.
Load it till it splits or you lose it. Being plated, splits will probably happen first.

uncle albert

firefighter4215
02-03-2011, 20:22
Ok. I figured it would be ok, but wanted to find someone who had more experience. I'm using a 125 grain Berry's plated with 4.3 grains of Bullseye so it's not a high pressure load anyway. Thanks.

RRTX11
02-05-2011, 06:21
second Lake City, best brass out there in my opinion.

ARSMITH
03-10-2011, 23:54
Hmm. Interesting opinions of people. I personally don't care what kind of brass I am using, but I am partial to Federal in my 45 loads.

integraracer157
04-26-2011, 03:14
Ive read all of this topic, and i hate to say it, But i think allot of brass gets a bad rap from impatient, and step skipping reloading. Ive been reloading 15 years. Just about every popular cal. With proper extra steps like flash hole deburring and primer pocket uniforming. you will see if a primer pocket is loose or tight. And all brass i have reloaded always needed the primer pocket cut uniform.
I do agree AMERC is CRAP.

If you just clean brass and load it. stick to RP.

pyro1017
10-12-2011, 22:44
anybody had experience reloading bitterroot valley ammo? i found a bunch of it for really cheap and want to know if it reloads well. thx

SCmasterblaster
01-07-2012, 18:41
Hi everyone,

I recall a thread not long ago where people were talking about how hard they inspect calibers, for example 9mm was inspected very hard because it is quite a strong case for the typical 9mm loads put on it, and 40sw was inspected more carefully because it is much closer to the "edge" than 9mm for example.

Also was a list of good brass and bad brass.

Could we create a sticky that would list calibers and everyone could chime in about headstamps considered good or bad. We could just have people post their experiences and update a top level message. Obviously there could be disagreements where one person says this headstamp is decent while another says it is trash, in which case we could go with 3 categories for headstamp: Good to go, Mixed Review, Junk Brass.

Maybe a 1-5 rating on inspection necessity. 1=super strong brass, just a basic inspection down to 5=inspect it extremely well or its going to KB!.

What do you guys think?

I love to dig up all the free brass at the range, it sure would be nice to have a list of what to throw in the scrap bin right off the bat...

Any brass not actually made of brass is of course junk. This includes Wolf steel cases and CCI blazer aluminum cases.

In the format company name (headstamp [other headstamps])
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Good to go brass:
Starline (*--* Two Stars with line between them)
Winchester (Winchester, WIN, WCC?)
Norma (Norma)
Magtech (CBC)
Hornady (Hornady)
Independance (*I*)
Israeli Military Industries (TZZ)
Federal (Federal, FC that is not 40S&W)
Eldorado (ELD)
Remington (R-P, UMC)

Shootable, but not as good:
Speer (Speer)
Precision Made Cartridge (PMC)
Company? (HY)
Aguila (Aguila)
Fiocchi (Fiocchi)

Junk Brass:
American Ammunition (AMERC)
Armscorp (ACP)
Company? (NNY)
Federal (FC that is 40S&W)
Sellier & Beloit (S&B) - Mixed reviews, some ok, some bad, usually the problem is related to primer pocket size.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks,

Alan

Your list looks pretty good, and I have been reloading 6 different hangun calibers since 1979. I'd give Speer a promotion, though.

scccdoc
01-11-2012, 12:44
goforbroke,is your Federal marked "Federal" ? DOC

albinlee
01-20-2012, 20:20
I have reloaded alot of S&B in 9mm, and I would put it in the good category! I notice that the primer pocket is a bit deeper and smaller diameter, but we are talking microscopic. I have never had issues seating primers including Fed, Win, and CCI. Also, never had a FTF in my Glock 34 through hundreds of rounds fired with S&B brass. The key I think is to tumble clean your brass properly first.

janice6
01-20-2012, 20:26
Rather then piecemeal, here is Head Stamp information

http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

cabrego
01-26-2012, 14:43
What do you guys think about blazer brass? I have some cleaned up and they are the cleanest brass in my mix of brass (blazer, federal, remington). (Sorry if it was mentioned I didn't see it in first page.

gwalchmai
01-27-2012, 05:44
What do you guys think about blazer brass? I have some cleaned up and they are the cleanest brass in my mix of brass (blazer, federal, remington). (Sorry if it was mentioned I didn't see it in first page.I've only used a few Blazer brass, but they worked fine in .45ACP.

alitke15
02-25-2012, 07:48
I thought I would throw my $0.02 in. I have reloaded a lot of S&B .40 S&W with no issues. I tumble it and use CCI 500 primers with no issues so far.

Outer Rondacker
02-28-2012, 12:02
Oh god dont kill me here but I have found that with the Fiocchi SP primers I have to push so much harder on my press to get them to seat its not even funny. I have even taken a few rounds and had to seat the primers after the rounds have been made. CCI's seam to just fall in for me. After using Fiocchi primers I often wonder when using cci's if my primer feed is empty. But I will continue to buy and use Fiocchi primers as long as I can get them for 30 bucks total for 1500 count. For the guys counting that is .02 cents each. If I want to buy 12,000 at once I can get them for 199.99 that is .016666666667 each. Not a bad buy. So price wins out over some hard to seat primers. Hope this helps.

Rinconjoe
03-03-2012, 07:16
what about : in 40 S&W
R-P Remington Arms Company, Inc., Bridgeport CT , and later: Lonoke, AR (also used by CDM of Mexico)

Rinconjoe
03-03-2012, 07:48
any one heard of ALAMA brass in 40 S&W

scccdoc
03-05-2012, 08:54
I've only used a few Blazer brass, but they worked fine in .45ACP.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I bought a thousand rds of ammo when I began shooting 6 months ago and saved the brass.I reload it often,no problems with Win or Fed primers..............DOC

Jager1
03-24-2012, 18:42
I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds of Sellier and Bellot Brass and rate it right up there with Winchester.

MCVet
03-26-2012, 17:08
Is Winchester good brass then? I've read in a lot of places that it is not, especially that out of the 9mm whitebox. If it is, I've wasted a lot of brass...

PCJim
03-26-2012, 20:39
I reload a LOT of Winchester brass, both pistol and rifle. I haven't had any problems with it.

scccdoc
03-31-2012, 19:34
I reload a LOT of Winchester brass, both pistol and rifle. I haven't had any problems with it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What pistol primers do you use with Winchester brass ?