Para vs STi [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Para vs STi


ahtsay
03-25-2008, 03:25
I'm posting this for a friend I met at a range. He's looking to buy a FA, but is confused as to what to get; STi Edge or Para P16-40 :supergrin: Please share your opinions as to help him make the best decision. I remember when I was starting out, hinde ko din alam kung anong kukunin eh :supergrin: Anyways, any comments and advice will surely be appreciated. Thanks!

st. matthew
03-25-2008, 04:13
friend ka dyan!?? gusto mo lang bumili ng bakal noh?
:tempted::supergrin:

sabagay mas maganda ang feeling at bigat ng bakal:supergrin:

ahtsay
03-25-2008, 04:17
Makoy from a reliable source. P16-40, 75K nalang daw :supergrin: Not bad diba? Kuha ko noon yung sakin 88K eh. :upeyes: Hinde nako talaga bibili. May isa pa akong LD naka pending kay Deenoh, kakahiya na nga eh.

Wala ka bang comment sa STi VS Para? Share your knowledge naman hehehe!!

bertud ng putik
03-25-2008, 04:17
get the STI edge na! for me parang forged steel vs. cast ang labanan dyan...

ahtsay
03-25-2008, 04:19
get the STI edge na! for me parang forged steel vs. cast ang labanan dyan...

The question is...is it worth the extra money? :supergrin: Almost double kasi yung Edge eh. If we incorporate the price, Edge pa din ba kukunin mo?:supergrin:

jojo_G19
03-25-2008, 04:28
magbuo nlang cya ng either STI or Para, inde magkakalayo ang price. mas maganda pa pagkakagawa. mas swabe ang fitting, premium parts pa mailalagay nya.


just me
jojo

GMV
03-25-2008, 04:34
clarence, go for capacity (19/20 vs. 17/18) :tempted:

(alam ko ikaw yang nagtatanong :supergrin:)

batangueno
03-25-2008, 06:55
Clarence ba name ng friend mo? :supergrin:

Kung magbubuo sya, STI na lang. Kung buo na, Para or Armscor.

st. matthew
03-25-2008, 07:13
Makoy from a reliable source. P16-40, 75K nalang daw :supergrin: Not bad diba? Kuha ko noon yung sakin 88K eh. :upeyes: Hinde nako talaga bibili. May isa pa akong LD naka pending kay Deenoh, kakahiya na nga eh.

Wala ka bang comment sa STi VS Para? Share your knowledge naman hehehe!!

knowledge?
wala ako alam dyan, but the force is strong with the para harharhar!!:supergrin::supergrin:

puede bang hulugan yung LD mo?:supergrin:

9MX
03-25-2008, 07:18
clarence, go for capacity (19/20 vs. 17/18) :tempted:

(alam ko ikaw yang nagtatanong :supergrin:)

my para mag can load 19, and reloadable:cool:

mtho
03-25-2008, 07:37
sti ni clarence 19 din ngayon.

anyway makoy, ahtsay nagsisisi na ba kayo sa pagbenta nyo ng mga steel framed guns

ahtsay
03-25-2008, 07:51
Nix meron akong SV mag 19 kasya....pero si Tony O. lang kaya mag load ng 19 :rofl: When I was there, I saw him load 19...pero when I tried to do it at home, hinde ko magawa :upeyes:

mtho, ako nagsisisi :crying: kasi ang mura kong binenta eh. I should have just kept it nalang. Si makoy din pala binenta Para niya? I think alam ko din kung anong feeling niya :rofl:

Atty. Johnny, pwede ba magpakilala ka na dito? Kasi kala nila ako yung bibili eh :supergrin:

jojo_G19
03-25-2008, 10:05
pwede magamit ang PARA mags on STI, konting kalikot lang ng gunsmith, ok na.

BTW, kaya ng PARA mags ang 20 rounds.



jojo

i_am_infinity
03-25-2008, 11:21
ahts...here we go again... :) i say build a para if it's FOR YOU! ;)

mtho
03-25-2008, 20:22
i think building a para is more expensive than building a sti. strange diba, to think when you buy the whole gun its the other way around.

it always starts like that, some body wants a gun and tells you about it then you end up with one. nyahahahahahahaha

i_am_infinity
03-25-2008, 20:30
ahts ok na un para for ur back up gun...mark what do u think of a caspian hicap since the mags are available now?

ahtsay
03-25-2008, 23:45
Jay, I don't think Caspian mags are available-available. More like "available", but you can't get any :supergrin:. Kung talagang available yung Caspian mags, kukuha na kaagad si Mtho niyan hehehe!!! :tongueout:

This thread was started to help a guy choose a gun...walang nangyari! :upeyes:
Anyways, in my opinion STi is the better gun in terms of fit and finish, plus the materials used is better. In my Para, the gun started rattling at around 2 thousand rounds. However the Para, in my experience is not a bad gun at all, plus I like the 1911 look better. I think you can have a faster transition with the Para since the weight is further back, unlike the Edge which is front heavy which should be better for your splits naman. However when you buy a Para there are some basic parts that you may want to change from the start which brings the price closer to the STi. When I bought my Para I changed the sear, hammer and disconnector to STi in order to get a soft, more consistent trigger pull. I also bought an S&A magwell since the gun didn't come with one. I also changed the recoil spring and mainspring. Siguro the total cost of the parts was around 12K, kasama na gunsmithing. One more thing that made me sell my Para is the PXT extractor. Other forums have been saying that the PXT breaks easily and cannot be replaced with an aftermarket/std extractor. Although I never experienced any breakage, I worried constantly about it. Anyways, whatever you end up buying should be a good choice but I think you may be happier if you get an Edge.
When I had my Para, I was not shopping for an STi. I suddenly got a PM from Doc BI, a price list of STi parts and guns from Armscor. It was too good to be true, but it was. When I was starting out and you wanted an STi, sa TrueWeight lang meron. And you would have to sell one of your kidneys to afford one. So when Armscor came started selling them at a reasonable price, I jumped at it. :supergrin:

CX9
03-26-2008, 00:10
Both are overpriced that's one thing for sure.

mtho
03-26-2008, 00:15
i think si jethro merong caspian hicap na mags and no one else have it. maybe the old norinco hicap mags would work since the old norinco hicapframes looks like caspians. sabi dati ni travis tomasie meron syang experimental magazine na gawa ata ng cz or tngfoglio pero kelangan pa gunsmith. in my opinion it would be too expensive connsidering the custom work that needs to be done. and since it has a slimmer frame it carry's less rounds pa than a sti or para. sa uspsa ubra sya kasi 140mm yung legal mag nila dun and when you have 18 round easy na and strategic mag changes

if you use a para you could buy the armscor mag for less than 2t and as is carry's 17 rounds without any modifications and no more expense. so stick with either Para or sti.

ans3288
03-26-2008, 05:26
i think both guns have their pros and cons. any which way i think u cant go wrong. altho i shoot with a para. i got mine out of the box, pre-PXT series a p16.40. i just installed a magwell. i eventually changed the firing pin(extended) and i already broke the plunger(ejector). but other components are still factory. have a lot of fun shooting it even if i dont win any matches! :)

Eye Cutter
03-26-2008, 06:46
if he wants one NOW, as in now na! get an STI Edge or Para PXT. otherwise, go for the custom route. get an STI frame and buy premium parts...

kumpleto na parts ng new standard pistol ko! frame na lang kulang! hahaha!

yung sti frame namin naka-pending pa rin! dino, nagiipon pa ako!

bulm540
03-26-2008, 07:33
CAspian hi cap mags here are $ 85 a piece.

ahtsay
03-26-2008, 08:14
Doc let us know kung kailan mo kukunin frame mo para sabay sabay nalang tayo :supergrin:

Ako hinde maka decide kung anong gagawin ko doon sa frame, may plans ka na ba Doc?

nelany
03-26-2008, 09:11
Mga Bros, magkano yung STI frame a long dust na pang 40 cal? Is 36K na STI long dust na frame ok na ang presyo?

I'm also building an STI Edge.

ahtsay
03-26-2008, 10:37
Call Weapons System Corp. 687-7607, look for Tin-tin nalang, unless Dino is around. If you mention you're a member of BOG, they'll give you a nice price. :supergrin:

mtho
03-26-2008, 11:27
Ahtsay,
bakit di nalang number mo yung ilagay mo? mukang mas madami kang nabentang frame kesa sa sales peolple nila ah.

Punisher_nbi45
03-27-2008, 20:59
What are you going to use it for?

I use mine for work.

I'd go with the Para. First of all, it's a steel frame versus the polymer one of STI. I also find that it's easier to control the Para vs the STI in terms of shot recovery and target tracking. YMMV.

Just my 2 cents worth.

royal glockster
03-28-2008, 08:19
I'll go with the STI...slimmer grip compared to para..plus the high resale value..

Eye Cutter
03-28-2008, 08:38
doesn't really matter what brand to get. the important thing is it must work 101% everytime and all the time.

if for play, pag palyado, you won't enjoy the shooting... magiging master ka ng pag clear ng jam!

if for work... don't even think about it! get a glock instead!

mtho
03-28-2008, 22:55
let me clarify what doc ec is saying. all he meant to say was get both + a glock.

9MX
03-29-2008, 02:43
+1 sa sinabi ni mtho

da spark,

pasyente ka din ba ni doc? bwahahaha

ahtsay
03-29-2008, 09:06
:laughabove: :rofl:

It's funny cuz it's true :tongueout:

atmarcella
03-29-2008, 21:02
plus an SLR camera!

mtho
03-29-2008, 21:12
correction dslr

bulm540
03-29-2008, 22:30
STI if you can afford it. You will eventually get one.

bertud ng putik
03-30-2008, 07:27
mas ok kung boung sti edge na agad, para siguradong ayos na ang fitting. worth it pa! kesa piyesa piyesa ang bibilhin. kung may kwarta naman eh, buo na!

TheSCINTILLAN
03-30-2008, 09:43
Maraming salamat sir clarence sa pagsimula ng thread na ito. Inaamin ko na ako talaga ang dahilan kung bakit nagsimula ng thread na ito si sir Ahtsay.

Sa totoo lang, nakakabaliw din pala pag-isipan kung ano ang bibilhin. I know Para and STI are both good brands, and yes STI is better out of the box. However, the question is: is the PhP 60,000 difference worth it?

What if I buy the Para, and use the price difference improving it? In the process, I also learn a lot about guns especially the 1911 configuration. This is a particularly important consideration since I am relatively new to the sport. If I buy the STI, wala na ba talaga akong papalitan and ipapagunsmith dun?

Sobrang bilib ako sa STI when sir Ahtsay allowed me to shoot his STI Edge. It was so accurate like a 22 ruger. Feeling ko kaya ko mamaril ng ibon gamit ung STI Edge, at makakatama ako.

Syempre, I had to try the Para. My grouping was decent and dikit dikit din naman. Pero syempre di parehas ng STI in terms of recoil and handling.

I think I already have an idea of what I would be getting. However, inputs and opinions really matter, especially from fellow members who know better. Maraming salamat.

mtho
03-30-2008, 10:11
sir i think when you handled the edge of ahtsay it is not in stock edge configuration anymore. just something to think about but you cant go wrong either way. just make sure that its in 40 and it fits the ipsc box with the magazine inserted. that way youll have a ipsc legal game gun and a defensive handgun as well.

i_am_infinity
03-30-2008, 11:18
if u can afford it i say go the CUSTOM ROUTE...trust me, it's worth it.

ans3288
03-30-2008, 16:23
a lot of things can be done to reduce the recoil of your gun. whether its para or sti.

recoil master/recoil buster, lighter mainspring extended firing pin, heavier heads and lower powder charge. these will reduce the recoil of the gun. just learn the principle of the 1911 and you'll figure it out how to reduce the recoil, talk to veteran shooters, or if you have the money, get a good gunsmith and tell him what you want and he will do it for you :)

st. matthew
03-30-2008, 16:25
sir i think when you handled the edge of ahtsay it is not in stock edge configuration anymore. just something to think about but you cant go wrong either way. just make sure that its in 40 and it fits the ipsc box with the magazine inserted. that way youll have a ipsc legal game gun and a defensive handgun as well.

ano pinalitan ni clarence?

bulm540
03-30-2008, 18:34
if u can afford it i say go the CUSTOM ROUTE...trust me, it's worth it.

Ditto on the custom route.

bulm540
03-30-2008, 18:36
a lot of things can be done to reduce the recoil of your gun. whether its para or sti.

recoil master/recoil buster, lighter mainspring extended firing pin, heavier heads and lower powder charge. these will reduce the recoil of the gun. just learn the principle of the 1911 and you'll figure it out how to reduce the recoil, talk to veteran shooters, or if you have the money, get a good gunsmith and tell him what you want and he will do it for you :)
Recoil can be reduced by lotsa practice. I did use a tungsten on min ebut now I have a steel guide rod. I like mine lighter now.

bulm540
03-30-2008, 18:39
Maraming salamat sir clarence sa pagsimula ng thread na ito. Inaamin ko na ako talaga ang dahilan kung bakit nagsimula ng thread na ito si sir Ahtsay.

Sa totoo lang, nakakabaliw din pala pag-isipan kung ano ang bibilhin. I know Para and STI are both good brands, and yes STI is better out of the box. However, the question is: is the PhP 60,000 difference worth it?

What if I buy the Para, and use the price difference improving it? In the process, I also learn a lot about guns especially the 1911 configuration. This is a particularly important consideration since I am relatively new to the sport. If I buy the STI, wala na ba talaga akong papalitan and ipapagunsmith dun?

Sobrang bilib ako sa STI when sir Ahtsay allowed me to shoot his STI Edge. It was so accurate like a 22 ruger. Feeling ko kaya ko mamaril ng ibon gamit ung STI Edge, at makakatama ako.

Syempre, I had to try the Para. My grouping was decent and dikit dikit din naman. Pero syempre di parehas ng STI in terms of recoil and handling.

I think I already have an idea of what I would be getting. However, inputs and opinions really matter, especially from fellow members who know better. Maraming salamat.

If STI is not affordable I would get an Arsmcor. I don't like the power extractor of the para. A shooter had to send back his para to the factory since the power extractor broke. Don't know about why para had to change something that was not broken.

mtho
03-30-2008, 21:10
i think if the pxt broke, para would probably replace it. kung mura naman yung para just buy a spare power extractor before it breaks or ask para for a spare.

bulm540
03-30-2008, 21:41
. The hassle of not having a standard extractor. He had problems that were extractor related.

TheSCINTILLAN
03-31-2008, 03:26
"If STI is not affordable I would get an Arsmcor. I don't like the power extractor of the para. A shooter had to send back his para to the factory since the power extractor broke. Don't know about why para had to change something that was not broken."

Sir bulm540,

The question is: Is the PhP 60,000 difference between an STI and a para worth it? It's a question of value for money rather than affordability. Sulit ba to pay PhP 135k/ PhP139k in one time, or just Php 75k and then just improve as time passes.

I have nothing against Armscor, and I believe they are also ok. However, I have reservations on buying a gun and bringing it immediately to a gunsmith. Naisip ko baka there is something wrong in the product. Sana pwede na gamitin out of the box like an STI or a PARA, tsaka na lang ipagunsmith kung sawa na.

"sir i think when you handled the edge of ahtsay it is not in stock edge configuration anymore. just something to think about but you cant go wrong either way. just make sure that its in 40 and it fits the ipsc box with the magazine inserted. that way youll have a ipsc legal game gun and a defensive handgun as well."

Sir mtho

I also tried the stock STI edge and liked it as well. Trigger pull lang naman ata diperensya nila. Di rin nagkakalayo ung groupings ko. Both guns were "magkapatid" as sir ahtsay calls them.:supergrin:

"if u can afford it i say go the CUSTOM ROUTE...trust me, it's worth it."

Sir I_am_infinity,

Yes sir, I am sure you are correct. The problem is I'm relatively new and I don't think I have the patience to wait for gunsmithing work.:embarassed: Moreover, this route involves 2 licenses which maybe too complicated for a newbie. Masmarami din ako dapat aralin agad about parts, assembly, and gunsmiths. In this route, a newbie is very much vulnerable to error, mistakes, and gunsmiths who are boleros. (believe me, I met a few already)
At least if I go STI or PARA, I can use it agad and just learn the ropes as I go on.:supergrin:

Sir everyone,

Sulit ba talaga to buy STI and shell out 135K/139K at one time or just get PARA at almost half the price then just improve it? If I buy the STI, wala na ba talaga akong papalitan and ipapagunsmith dun?

I've done my research on both guns. Sa PARA may mga reklamo akong nabasa particularly on the power extractor, sa STI wala akong reklamong narinig kundi sobrang mahal.

Maraming salamat sa mga inputs and opinions ninyo.:supergrin:

bulm540
03-31-2008, 05:19
AS I said before, if you can afford it, GET an STI. You will not be disappointed. I shot a para, BUL , SVI And now a full custom STI 6 in.( legal in USPSA) by Benny Hill. By the time I was done changing parts + gunsmithing bills with the para it was almost the same price as and STI edge. It might be different there since gunsmithing is cheaper overthere.

Eye Cutter
03-31-2008, 07:01
mas ok kung boung sti edge na agad, para siguradong ayos na ang fitting. worth it pa! kesa piyesa piyesa ang bibilhin. kung may kwarta naman eh, buo na!

sure, what you're saying is partially true... para ka rin bumili ng kotse...later on, gusto mo mag upgrade and add-on ng go fast parts... tweak the computer box, turbo... palitan wheels, tapos you want a 0.90in dawson fiber optic front sight... then koenig hammer, aftec extractor.... never ending yan....

my advice is if you have the money, go the custom route. it will come out a little bit cheaper than getting an edge and a para-ord then eventually changing out parts later on...







tama sabi nila mark da spark and 9mx...

ako si doc BI....

better to get both and a glock and a single stack and a dslr!

wahahahaha!

:supergrin:

Eye Cutter
03-31-2008, 07:08
teka, teka.... after re-reading mr. scintillan's posts, best advice from me now is to look for for a used long dust sti or sps instead of getting a new edge.

ask around sa mga kaibigan, madami nagsasawa sa shooting and are disposing hardly used ipsc pistols na halos hindi nagamit.

usually madami na kasamang add-ons like belt and holster, mag pouches ammo, extra mags and napalitan na ng premium parts.

if you find one, test mo 100 rounds of good ammo. if it doesn't jam, tawaran mo. pag meron kahit isang jam (basta hindi ammo related) think twice... hanap ka ng iba or unless meron ka kasama knowledgeable sa 'smithing like mark da spark...

batangueno
03-31-2008, 07:39
"if u can afford it i say go the CUSTOM ROUTE...trust me, it's worth it."

Sir I_am_infinity,

Yes sir, I am sure you are correct. The problem is I'm relatively new and I don't think I have the patience to wait for gunsmithing work.:embarassed: Moreover, this route involves 2 licenses which maybe too complicated for a newbie. Masmarami din ako dapat aralin agad about parts, assembly, and gunsmiths. In this route, a newbie is very much vulnerable to error, mistakes, and gunsmiths who are boleros. (believe me, I met a few already)
At least if I go STI or PARA, I can use it agad and just learn the ropes as I go on.:supergrin:

Sir everyone,

Sulit ba talaga to buy STI and shell out 135K/139K at one time or just get PARA at almost half the price then just improve it? If I buy the STI, wala na ba talaga akong papalitan and ipapagunsmith dun?

I've done my research on both guns. Sa PARA may mga reklamo akong nabasa particularly on the power extractor, sa STI wala akong reklamong narinig kundi sobrang mahal.


No need to worry about errors and mistakes building your own gun. Sa dami na nagbuo ng standard gun dito, they already know which parts work and sino magaling na gunsmiths. You just have to ask the questions here. :)

For me, the only thing you need to change on the Edge is the front site since i would prefer a fiber optic one. For gunsmithing changes, first would be a trigger job, then tuning which includes work done on the barrel ramp, extractor, ejector, etc.

You sound like to already want an STI, so my suggestion now compared to before is get the Edge. Kung gusto mo makatipid, just order the STI frame and all the other premium parts from mtho. :supergrin:

ahtsay
03-31-2008, 07:42
At last, nag post na din si Atty. Anyways, my Edge is basically stock. I changed the mainspring to 17lbs and a Koenig hammer, plus a heavier SS magwell. I also have an EGW sear and diconnector pala :supergrin: Hmmm....i guess medyo stock pa din yun hehehe!!

May isang option pa pala si Atty. Please read the classifieds, yung post ni Pogi. I think he can consider that also kasi puro premium parts din yun eh.

In my opinion the 60K difference is worth it. Nag galing na din ako diyan eh, I asked the same questions, thought the same thoughts. In the end I sold the Para ang got the STi and never looked back. :supergrin: The fit and finish of the STi is better and I think the steel is of a better quality.
As for gunsmithing, for me kailangan mo talagang dalhin doon yung new gun. 1st, you get a good trigger job. The stock is just not good enough and your accuracy will suffer. 2nd I think you should have your barrel reamed to ensure that its wide enough to improve reliability naman.

I think the bottom line is; if you buy a Para you might/will start thinking of an STi. However if you buy an STi, usually you'll start thinking of a custom build naman. hehehehe!!!! Tapos once you have a custom build blaster...your next gun will depend on who you get to talk to sa range. Pag si Mannix or Saki, you'll probably end up with a rifle. Pag si Shihan, baka mapa Open ka or Production. Pag si Doc, Joji or McO....DLSR yung bagsak mo niyan :rofl:

Eye Cutter
03-31-2008, 08:16
wahahaha! try mo muna mga iba't ibang pistols then decide!

or the other way around, we'll decide for you!

which means that you go the custom route! para isang matinding iyakan na lang!


:supergrin:

ahtsay
03-31-2008, 08:37
:supergrin: Actually the custom route is the best. I think you may be able to build a very very nice STi STD gun with premium parts for about 100K. Oh, hinde ba maganda yun???

Don't be afraid of the gunsmiths here. Our international shooters are the best in the world, and their guns are assembled/made by local gunsmiths. As long as you use premium parts and you go to good smith, the gun you end up with should be better than a factory Edge and cheaper pa! We will help you with the parts, don't worry :supergrin: Ano game????

nelany
03-31-2008, 08:56
:supergrin: Actually the custom route is the best. I think you may be able to build a very very nice STi STD gun with premium parts for about 100K. Oh, hinde ba maganda yun???

Don't be afraid of the gunsmiths here. Our international shooters are the best in the world, and their guns are assembled/made by local gunsmiths. As long as you use premium parts and you go to good smith, the gun you end up with should be better than a factory Edge and cheaper pa! We will help you with the parts, don't worry :supergrin: Ano game????

Sir, ano ball park figure ang Edge pag bubuo ka? Yung 100K ano pa ang kulang na parts dito? Kasi yung slide, barrel at receiver na STI ay nasa 66K na wala pa license.

TY

ahtsay
03-31-2008, 09:11
nelany, I was just trying to tempt TheScitillan into the custom route...binuking mo naman ako eh hehehe!!! :supergrin:
Atty, I think it will cost more than that....pero it will be waaaaaay nicer than a stock Edge hahaha!!! :rofl:

mtho
03-31-2008, 11:51
if you go the custom route you can have a better gun with better parts for the price of an edge.

ano naman inalam ko sa gunsmithing at pagsource ng parts. sa buy and sell thread lang din ako bumibili dami dun.

by the way if you check the prices of para and sti here or in the us. part by part para would cost more, but a complete gun a para would cost less.

and one more thing i see a lot of standard shooters from Lag gunclub that have a para frame with sti uppers maybe theyre on the same boat as you.

Eye Cutter
03-31-2008, 16:42
sige na nga benta ko na lang muna kay atty yung mga piyesa ko... saka na lang ako build ng sti std gun ko. meron pa naman ako para p16-40! kulang na lang noon yung sti long dust frame!

markdaspark and ahts, presyohan niyo na si atty scintillan! wahahaha!

bulm540
03-31-2008, 19:01
Mga BI kayo talaga.

JuDGe
03-31-2008, 23:07
may pumakyaw na ng parts ni pogi ah! :supergrin:

nelany
03-31-2008, 23:40
nelany, I was just trying to tempt TheScitillan into the custom route...binuking mo naman ako eh hehehe!!! :supergrin:
Atty, I think it will cost more than that....pero it will be waaaaaay nicer than a stock Edge hahaha!!! :rofl:

Sir sorry, kasi tingin ko sa presyo mo ay mura na. :embarassed:

I'm on a custom route din sa pag buo ng Edge kaya I can compare yung presyo.

atmarcella
04-01-2008, 10:14
that way youll have a ipsc legal game gun and a defensive handgun as well.

game gun. yes. defensive handgun? well if it has night sights why not.