PNP Planning to Recall High-Powered Firearms from Policemen [Archive] - Glock Talk

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isuzu
03-27-2008, 20:10
It's a good idea, sometimes. A lot of policemen don't know how to shoot their M16s and M14s. However, arming a policeman who is assigned in rural areas and in Mindanao with a shotgun is a bad idea. A lot of policemen are against this, according to the news article.

I hope the PNP would not try to mess around with the high-power licenses of civilians who diligently renew their licenses on time:

http://www.visayandailystar.com/2008/March/27/topstory5.htm

Clusterbomb
03-27-2008, 20:25
A PNP official was interviewed on AM radio last week on that matter.

He said that according to their inventory, many policemen have been issued two FAs- a service pistol and a rifle (mostly M16s). Since there is still a slight shortage of FAs, it was decided to get the rifles back and distribute them in the meantime, to those who still do not have FAs.

The spokesman also acknowledged the plan to procure shotguns. He said the Chief of the PNP preferred that only shotguns be issued to policemen in highly urbanized areas like Metro Manila.

isuzu
03-27-2008, 20:36
You're right, Clusterbomb. The PNP has a shortage of firearms. Even new graduates have to procure their own firearms through loans which have such high interest rates. It's like buying two guns when you get to pay off your loan, according to a new graduate I talked to at my gunsmith's shop.

mtho
03-27-2008, 20:58
why dont they just organize a better gunsmithing division and recycle the illegal fa that they have confiscated? instead of reselling them

saki1611
03-27-2008, 21:20
why dont they just organize a better gunsmithing division and recycle the illegal fa that they have confiscated? instead of reselling them

:agree:that's a very good idea! how i wish you're one of our high rank officers...

yes, my baby m16 is about to be recalled:crying:, it's good that my own m4 commando is 90% finished!:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:

Evan N. Payawal
03-28-2008, 00:38
Hmm...so is this a prelude to recalling hi-powered firearms from civilians in the near future?
There are hi-powered weapons licensed to civilians (thru amnesty)

CatsMeow
03-28-2008, 00:53
"A slight shortage":upeyes: Di ba this is of the PNP's own making? They couldn't even properly standardize sidearms. Their procurement process is sorely lacking. This has been going on for years.

choi_tan2000
03-28-2008, 01:13
i dis agree with this proposal, i think they just have to be trained well.

not sir saki anymore ( hehehe mahusay na yan eh) kidding.....

in fact kulng na nga fire arms eh, maybe pnp could just add hotguns in mobile units only or special ops unit as if they are the on naman whos in chare of operations diba.

if we remember some recent holdups incident in QC they are armed with highpowered rifles, how can a police officer armed with shotgun will engaged with this criminals?

just me bros

mikey177
03-28-2008, 02:41
why dont they just organize a better gunsmithing division and recycle the illegal fa that they have confiscated? instead of reselling them

I never knew the PNP resells seized illegal FAs. In all the press releases I have read on the matter, the PNP always makes a big show out of destroying (usually with a steamroller) the firearms that it captures. Either way, it's a waste of perfectly good and useable guns.

akula
03-28-2008, 04:38
if we remember some recent holdups incident in QC they are armed with highpowered rifles, how can a police officer armed with shotgun will engaged with this criminals?

just me brosDon't underestimate the power of the shotgun. :supergrin:

Imagine "0" buck shot -- all nine .32 cal lodging on a torso or head?! Yan and one-stopper. And we are not talking about slug yet. Pwede ring rubber or bean-bag para pang crowd or riot control.

Watermelon and a buck-shot...
http://www.pbase.com/ftapia/image/81123940/original.jpg
(image courtesy of foxxxy)

Yung urban encounter is only less than 50-meters.

chowchow
03-28-2008, 05:38
Naku, baka hindi kaya ng lahat sa recoil pag shotgun ang gamit. But for intimidation factor , hanep ang shotgun. If they have the Federal flitecontrol wad 00 buck ammo, then it will give a very tight pattern even at 35-40 yds.

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php?pName=25rds-12-ga-federal-le-tactical-flitecontrol-8-pell-oo-buck&cName=12-gauge-buckshot

mtho
03-28-2008, 08:12
I never knew the PNP resells seized illegal FAs. In all the press releases I have read on the matter, the PNP always makes a big show out of destroying (usually with a steamroller) the firearms that it captures. Either way, it's a waste of perfectly good and useable guns.

I think you can buy used guns in crame. dunno where it came from, but my point is why don't they just make use of the guns that come their way. bring in or train gunsmiths to make full use of what they have.

9MX
03-28-2008, 10:37
if we remember some recent holdups incident in QC they are armed with highpowered rifles, how can a police officer armed with shotgun will engaged with this criminals?

just me bros


he doesn't:cool:

he goes for cover, flips his cellphone or radio to call in the starship troopers:whistling:

isuzu
03-28-2008, 20:49
Akula,

I'd go with the buckshot. Rifled slugs are not that accurate. Sabot slugs with rifled barrels are accurate to about 100 meters.

Using a shotgun in a populated area could prove disastrous to bystanders, especially those who are mahilig mang usyoso.:supergrin:

saki1611
03-29-2008, 05:26
It's a good idea, sometimes. A lot of policemen don't know how to shoot their M16s and M14s. However, arming a policeman who is assigned in rural areas and in Mindanao with a shotgun is a bad idea. A lot of policemen are against this, according to the news article.

I hope the PNP would not try to mess around with the high-power licenses of civilians who diligently renew their licenses on time:

http://www.visayandailystar.com/2008/March/27/topstory5.htm

isn't your opinion some kind unfair? most civilians who own firearms don't know how to use their guns too.

eug3n3_d3nn1s
03-29-2008, 07:20
isn't your opinion some kind unfair? most civilians who own firearms don't know how to use their guns too.

I have to agree with you on this point.

isuzu
03-29-2008, 11:34
isn't your opinion some kind unfair? most civilians who own firearms don't know how to use their guns too.

Yep, I agree. There are a lot of civilians who own guns, but can't even visit a range once a year to practice. But since a firearm is part of the everyday "tools of the trade" of our law enforcers, they should be proficient in handling them. Some don't even go to target practice because of "lack of budget."

That reminds me of a hostage situation I saw on TV a few years back where policemen just fired away at the hostage-taker and the child hostage, killing both of them.

saki1611
03-29-2008, 18:38
Yep, I agree. There are a lot of civilians who own guns, but can't even visit a range once a year to practice. But since a firearm is part of the everyday "tools of the trade" of our law enforcers, they should be proficient in handling them. Some don't even go to target practice because of "lack of budget."

That reminds me of a hostage situation I saw on TV a few years back where policemen just fired away at the hostage-taker and the child hostage, killing both of them.

with that reason i agree with you, but disarming the PNP personnel (recalling the issued high powered fa's) is not the solution. the solution is mandatory regular training/practice for the police. one thing is, PNP personnel is much familiar with rifles than pistols because on our basic training, most of the time we use and carry M16's. basically it's easy to shoot rifles than pistols. actually it's less than five years now that the PNP has already its quarterly program in pistol proficiency, applying the IDPA style. yet it's not enough, personal discipline is also a factor. your example scenario didn't or doesn't only happen to our PNP but as well as with other countries.

my point to your first post is, if the citizenry has to be allowed in owning guns whether pistols or high powered rifles, it should be much more with the police. if the police will be disarmed, then the civilians should be disarmed too, this won't need an explanation why.

chowchow
03-29-2008, 20:21
I have bro in law who is from Cebu CIty. He brags owning a snubbie revolver back then. He i s now in the States. Recently I get observed him with my gun and he doesnt even know proper safety procedures and handling a gun.
SO much for bragging.

Poodle
03-30-2008, 05:41
Ordinarily, I think a shotgun is more intimidating and deadly than an M16 or an M4. In a city scenario, a shotgun is probably more efficient. However we should remember the Hollywood shootout where the LA cops were outgunned by two bad guys wearing body armor. Di pa naman nangyayari sa Pinas, but who knows.

Not sure if a shotgun, at medium range, would be able to incapacitate a BG wearing body armor. Meron na yatang order si Chief PNP na kelangan proficient ang mga pulis sa handguns at inayos pa niya ang shooting range sa Crame. Pero totoong me mga pulis na unsafe ang handling. Me nakasabay kaming bagong pulis PO1 (payat pa) nung kaibigan nung dumaan kami sa isang leather shop sa Marikina. Binunot niya yung baril niya tapos kung basta na lang tinuturo kung saan-saan - dumadaan pa yung dulo ng barrel sa katawan namin nung barkada ko. Me nakasaksak na magazine. Alis agad kami.

It's true that many civilians do not know how to handle FA's (and they should not be allowed FA's if they are not proficient enough to ensure safety) but somehow, this is pardonable - it's not their job.

Cops on the other hand, must know how to handle FA's, because protection of innocent lives depends on them. However, FA proficiency depends on the officer na rin. Cops who are FA enthusiasts practice (si Sir Saki magaling, nakasabay ko minsan). Others do not.

Me kaibigan akong pulis Inspector (hagad - ang bait nun) na di talaga nagpra-praktis. Niyayaya ko sana minsan, ayaw talaga. Me kaibigan din akong pulis na chaplain ng Muslim - di rin masyado praktis pero nayaya ko pumutok minsan, tumatama naman. Puede na. Beretta na perpetual double action (parang revolver) pa gamit niya - hirap gamitin yun.

To summarize, maybe city cops must be proficient in handguns (IDPA style siguro). Mas ok siguro ang shotgun sa city pero me SWAT naman kung kelangan ng M16. Sa province, kung saan me mga NPA, dapat M16 or M14 (wala na ba Garand? Laki ng bala nun). Then FA proficiency training is a must.

maskytrading
03-30-2008, 09:18
if the police will be disarmed, then the civilians should be disarmed too, this won't need an explanation why.

Sir Saki, I hope I am not taking your opinion(s) out of context as I singled out only the last sentence of your post...But the way I see it...if you disarm the police they will be inutile against the criminals...that leaves the law abiding citizenry to fend for themselves...and if the civilians shall be also disarmed, what happens...Crime will skyrocket as only the low-life will have guns.
Disarming police and civilians is a surefire formula for chaos and military adventurism, imho

bulm540
03-30-2008, 09:42
Ordinarily, I think a shotgun is more intimidating and deadly than an M16 or an M4. In a city scenario, a shotgun is probably more efficient. However we should remember the Hollywood shootout where the LA cops were outgunned by two bad guys wearing body armor. Di pa naman nangyayari sa Pinas, but who knows.

Not sure if a shotgun, at medium range, would be able to incapacitate a BG wearing body armor. Meron na yatang order si Chief PNP na kelangan proficient ang mga pulis sa handguns at inayos pa niya ang shooting range sa Crame. Pero totoong me mga pulis na unsafe ang handling. Me nakasabay kaming bagong pulis PO1 (payat pa) nung kaibigan nung dumaan kami sa isang leather shop sa Marikina. Binunot niya yung baril niya tapos kung basta na lang tinuturo kung saan-saan - dumadaan pa yung dulo ng barrel sa katawan namin nung barkada ko. Me nakasaksak na magazine. Alis agad kami.

It's true that many civilians do not know how to handle FA's (and they should not be allowed FA's if they are not proficient enough to ensure safety) but somehow, this is pardonable - it's not their job.

Cops on the other hand, must know how to handle FA's, because protection of innocent lives depends on them. However, FA proficiency depends on the officer na rin. Cops who are FA enthusiasts practice (si Sir Saki magaling, nakasabay ko minsan). Others do not.

Me kaibigan akong pulis Inspector (hagad - ang bait nun) na di talaga nagpra-praktis. Niyayaya ko sana minsan, ayaw talaga. Me kaibigan din akong pulis na chaplain ng Muslim - di rin masyado praktis pero nayaya ko pumutok minsan, tumatama naman. Puede na. Beretta na perpetual double action (parang revolver) pa gamit niya - hirap gamitin yun.

To summarize, maybe city cops must be proficient in handguns (IDPA style siguro). Mas ok siguro ang shotgun sa city pero me SWAT naman kung kelangan ng M16. Sa province, kung saan me mga NPA, dapat M16 or M14 (wala na ba Garand? Laki ng bala nun). Then FA proficiency training is a must.

Shotgun won't penetrate body armor.

horge
03-30-2008, 16:30
If the headline had been:
"PNP Planning to REDISTRIBUTE High Powered Firearms OF Policemen"
would that have been more accurate/less interesting?

A 12 ga. shotgun spitting 000 buck doesn't pattern as wildly/widely
as some may think --it can be used with some control with regard to where
the lead goes, so long as the user gets familiar with how a gun/choke
combo tends to pattern.

I don't like slugs because of excessive penetration, outside of which
the argument could be made that shotguns are less dangerous to the
general population than HPR's, due to the lethal range of the projectiles,
and the fewer number of available pops before having to reload forcing
the user to aim rather than spray-n-pray.

Just offering pros to balance
some perceived cons.


h.

Clusterbomb
03-30-2008, 17:57
The PNP official interviewed on AM radio never said anything about disarming policemen.

What he said was recalling the M16s from those who already have service pistols and assigning the said rifles to those have not yet been issued ANY FA. From an administrative standpoint, I agree that this would be quickest way to adddress the shortage of FAs for the meantime.

So yes, I think the better word is, as Horge put it, "redistribution".

saki1611
03-30-2008, 19:02
Sir Saki, I hope I am not taking your opinion(s) out of context as I singled out only the last sentence of your post...But the way I see it...if you disarm the police they will be inutile against the criminals...that leaves the law abiding citizenry to fend for themselves...and if the civilians shall be also disarmed, what happens...Crime will skyrocket as only the low-life will have guns.
Disarming police and civilians is a surefire formula for chaos and military adventurism, imho

on my post (#18) i said "disarming the PNP personnel (recalling the issued high powered fa's) is not the solution." i just reacted to sir isuzu's first post that he favors the said actions against the police but hoping not to do the same with the civilians. please read my complete post as i've explained it's not the solution.

isuzu
03-30-2008, 22:21
my point to your first post is, if the citizenry has to be allowed in owning guns whether pistols or high powered rifles, it should be much more with the police. if the police will be disarmed, then the civilians should be disarmed too, this won't need an explanation why.

I might not have fully explained my post. I totally don't agree that high powered firearms should be taken from the police. Even law enforcement units in the US are switching from the shotgun to the M16 carbines.

What I might have added is to give periodic qualification courses to policemen with high powered firearms, and if they fail twice in a row, they should be allowed to use a firearm that they could comfortably use, depending on where he or she is assigned.

What the PNP needs is constant training and more discipline in handling these firearms.:thumbsup:

isuzu
03-30-2008, 22:25
Sir Saki, I hope I am not taking your opinion(s) out of context as I singled out only the last sentence of your post...But the way I see it...if you disarm the police they will be inutile against the criminals...that leaves the law abiding citizenry to fend for themselves...and if the civilians shall be also disarmed, what happens...Crime will skyrocket as only the low-life will have guns.
Disarming police and civilians is a surefire formula for chaos and military adventurism, imho


Just like England. Crime skyrocketed when the citizenry as well as the police was disarmed.

saki1611
03-31-2008, 03:16
I might not have fully explained my post. I totally don't agree that high powered firearms should be taken from the police. Even law enforcement units in the US are switching from the shotgun to the M16 carbines.

What I might have added is to give periodic qualification courses to policemen with high powered firearms, and if they fail twice in a row, they should be allowed to use a firearm that they could comfortably use, depending on where he or she is assigned.

What the PNP needs is constant training and more discipline in handling these firearms.:thumbsup:

this i agree 101% :thumbsup:

darwin25
03-31-2008, 04:25
my point to your first post is, if the citizenry has to be allowed in owning guns whether pistols or high powered rifles, it should be much more with the police.

I agree with you on this one

if the police will be disarmed, then the civilians should be disarmed too, this won't need an explanation why.


I would have to disagree with you on this one bro. When the police are disarmed then I would have to bring my guns on the ready. I sure want to have something better than a knife or a baseball bat when someone intends to hurt me or my loved ones.

saki1611
03-31-2008, 04:59
I agree with you on this one




I would have to disagree with you on this one bro. When the police are disarmed then I would have to bring my guns on the ready. I sure want to have something better than a knife or a baseball bat when someone intends to hurt me or my loved ones.

hehehe! i was misquoted twice bro. my point is i don't agree with with isuzu's first post of recalling the high powered firearms from the PNP, though he favors of maintaining the highpowered with the civilians. though this issue was settled already.:supergrin: