Glock 22c legal in IDPA with different barrel?

[bwheeler03]

I have a 22c and want to start competing seriously in IDPA. My gun club holds an informal, but IDPA-style practical shoot monthly, where anything goes. However, I am wondering if I replace just my barrel ($100-200) i will be able to compete in real IDPA competition at another range without buying a whole new gun ($400-$550).
If anyone who knows the rules, or has had dealing with the issue let me know, that would be great. Thanks

[Joe D]

Easiest and cheapest thing to do is purchase one of the non-ported LWD barrels. You are good to go in SSP or ESP.

[Half Loaded]

This is a question I had too (maybe should be separate thread): Do replacement barrels in a Glock change whether you are accepted into any of the competitive shooting events discussed here? For example, if you change a 10 mm to a .40? Does it put you into a different category or something?

[buellxb9rider]

i'd order a stock glock non ported barrel and your good to go.a 9 barrel in a 40gun would be ok i'm pretty sure but a 40 barrel in a 10mm would be a no go if i was officiating.not to mention what mag you'd use to get it to work.

[mpolans]

In USPSA, aftermarket barrels of the same calibers are legal for Production Division. Conversion barrels (.40 to 9mm, 10mm to .40, etc.) are not legal.

IIRC, the same rules apply in IDPA's SSP and ESP.

[Half Loaded]

In USPSA, aftermarket barrels of the same calibers are legal for Production Division. Conversion barrels (.40 to 9mm, 10mm to .40, etc.) are not legal.

IIRC, the same rules apply in IDPA's SSP and ESP.

Good to know, thanks.

BTW, is there any advanatage to shooting a 10mm instead of a .40 in any of these competitions (more points for more powerful rounds, as in minor vs. major)?

[mpolans]

Good to know, thanks.

BTW, is there any advanatage to shooting a 10mm instead of a .40 in any of these competitions (more points for more powerful rounds, as in minor vs. major)?
In games that require major power factor (USPSA Limited, Limited 10, Open divisions), you'd be better off with .40. Since you can easily load .40 to major, there's no advantage to going with 10mm, in fact, there's a disadvantage. Reloading 10mm to major will likely result in more empty space in the case compared to .40 and will likely be slightly less consistent in velocity and maybe accuracy.
If you don't reload and only buy factory ammo, there's a noticeable disadvantage to shooting 10mm because of the greater recoil over .40.

For games that require minor power factor (IDPA, USPSA Production division), the empty space in a case when downloading 10mm becomes even more significant.
If you're stuck with buying factory ammo, both calibers are at a significant disadvantage over factory 9mm.

[Half Loaded]

In games that require major power factor (USPSA Limited, Limited 10, Open divisions), you'd be better off with .40. Since you can easily load .40 to major, there's no advantage to going with 10mm, in fact, there's a disadvantage. Reloading 10mm to major will likely result in more empty space in the case compared to .40 and will likely be slightly less consistent in velocity and maybe accuracy.
If you don't reload and only buy factory ammo, there's a noticeable disadvantage to shooting 10mm because of the greater recoil over .40.

For games that require minor power factor (IDPA, USPSA Production division), the empty space in a case when downloading 10mm becomes even more significant.
If you're stuck with buying factory ammo, both calibers are at a significant disadvantage over factory 9mm.


Thanks for the guidance here. I am likely to only buy factory ammo (at least in the forseeable future).

But now I am confused. I thought that .40 would be best all around, but you are saying that there times when .9mm would be needed to qualify (minor power factor would be required?)?

Are you also saying that factory .40 would put a shooter at a disadvantage becaues of recoil and controllability comapred to 9? Thanks for help here.

[mpolans]

Thanks for the guidance here. I am likely to only buy factory ammo (at least in the forseeable future).

But now I am confused. I thought that .40 would be best all around, but you are saying that there times when .9mm would be needed to qualify (minor power factor would be required?)?

Are you also saying that factory .40 would put a shooter at a disadvantage becaues of recoil and controllability comapred to 9? Thanks for help here.
Sorry I wasn't clear. For the games that require only minor power factor (bullet weight x velocity / 1000 >= 125pf), virtually any factory 9mm will make it, as will .40, and 10mm. However, factory 9mm generally has less recoil than factory .40 or 10mm, so it has an advantage.

However, 9mm cannot be used to make major power factor (165pf in USPSA) in any division except Open Division (comps, optics, etc.) In order to make major in USPSA's Limited Division, you need to shoot a bullet with a diameter of at least .40.

Bottom line, for someone shooting *only factory ammo* the best calibers are:

IDPA SSP/ESP (125pf) - 9mm

USPSA Production (125pf) - 9mm

USPSA Limited/Limited 10 (165pf & .40 for major, 125pf for minor) - .40S&W

[Joe D]

A 9mm conversion barrel in either a G22 or G35 is NOT legal for USPSA Production nor for IDPA SSP and ESP.

[Half Loaded]

IDPA SSP/ESP (125pf) - 9mm

USPSA Production (125pf) - 9mm

USPSA Limited/Limited 10 (165pf & .40 for major, 125pf for minor) - .40S&W

Thank you. Maybe its too much to ask here (and someone can refer a link or good place to read up), but what are the differences between the categories/competitions listed above? Again, I am a total newbie here, and so am at the front end of learning about these. Thanks!

[mpolans]

Thank you. Maybe its too much to ask here (and someone can refer a link or good place to read up), but what are the differences between the categories/competitions listed above? Again, I am a total newbie here, and so am at the front end of learning about these. Thanks!

Short answer in differences in IPSC/USPSA vs. IDPA:

IPSC/USPSA - Evolved from a strong defensive scenario-driven shooting into a modern game that ideally emphasizes speed, accuracy, movement, adaptability, and creative problem solving. The core mantra of IPSC/USPSA is to do it "freestyle," allowing the shooter to solve the problem however he she sees fit; shooters many shoot the same stage successfully in very different ways. In its evolution, it has de-emphasized "realism." IDPA shooters see IPSC shooters as overly competitive gamers.

IDPA - Formed by curmudgeony former IPSC shooters who didn't like the lack of emphasis on "realism" and the escalating equipment race (before Production Division formed). In IDPA, the emphasis is on trying to exercise proper tactics, like using cover, shooting targets in the "correct" order, and concealable gear. Shooters are all expected to shoot the same stage the same way. Creative problem solving (aka "gaming") is discouraged. Deviating from what the Range Officer believes is tactically correct may draw a penalty. IDPA prides itself on being really "tactical" and "realistic." IPSC shooters see IDPA shooters as overly concerned with subjective ideas of what is "tactical/realistic" instead of just acknowledging that they too are shooting a competitive game. They often say that IDPA stands for "I Don't Practice Anymore."

Short answer for differences in Divisions:
USPSA Open Division - The Top Fuel class of practical shooting. Compensators, red dot sights, 28 round magazines, fancy holsters, and virtually unlimited modifications allowed. Used guns typically run around $2500.

USPSA Limited Division - The Funny Car class of practical shooting. No comps, optics, and requires shorter magazines, but still lots of modifications and fancy holsters allowed. Used guns typically run around $1600. (Though a Glock 35 or 24 can be pretty competitive with a few mods for around $500-700.)

USPSA Limited 10 Division - Just like the above, but limited to 10 rounds only. Created because of the AWB and for those folks in commie states.

USPSA Production Division - The Stock Car class of practical shooting. Modifications are very limited, mostly only trigger jobs, different sights, and grip tape; no fancy holsters allowed. However, the first shot must not be single-action. You can pretty much show up with something right off the shelf and be competitive.

IDPA SSP - Like USPSA Production, but slightly more restrictive.
IDPA ESP - Like USPSA Production with a few more modifications allowed. Also allows single action for the first shot.


See: http://www.uspsa.org/ and
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf

and

http://www.idpa.com/ and
http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

[Half Loaded]

Short answer in differences in IPSC/USPSA vs. IDPA:

IPSC/USPSA - Evolved from a strong defensive scenario-driven shooting into a modern game that ideally emphasizes speed, accuracy, movement, adaptability, and creative problem solving. The core mantra of IPSC/USPSA is to do it "freestyle," allowing the shooter to solve the problem however he she sees fit; shooters many shoot the same stage successfully in very different ways. In its evolution, it has de-emphasized "realism." IDPA shooters see IPSC shooters as overly competitive gamers.

IDPA - Formed by curmudgeony former IPSC shooters who didn't like the lack of emphasis on "realism" and the escalating equipment race (before Production Division formed). In IDPA, the emphasis is on trying to exercise proper tactics, like using cover, shooting targets in the "correct" order, and concealable gear. Shooters are all expected to shoot the same stage the same way. Creative problem solving (aka "gaming") is discouraged. Deviating from what the Range Officer believes is tactically correct may draw a penalty. IDPA prides itself on being really "tactical" and "realistic." IPSC shooters see IDPA shooters as overly concerned with subjective ideas of what is "tactical/realistic" instead of just acknowledging that they too are shooting a competitive game. They often say that IDPA stands for "I Don't Practice Anymore."

Short answer for differences in Divisions:
USPSA Open Division - The Top Fuel class of practical shooting. Compensators, red dot sights, 28 round magazines, fancy holsters, and virtually unlimited modifications allowed. Used guns typically run around $2500.

USPSA Limited Division - The Funny Car class of practical shooting. No comps, optics, and requires shorter magazines, but still lots of modifications and fancy holsters allowed. Used guns typically run around $1600. (Though a Glock 35 or 24 can be pretty competitive with a few mods for around $500-700.)

USPSA Limited 10 Division - Just like the above, but limited to 10 rounds only. Created because of the AWB and for those folks in commie states.

USPSA Production Division - The Stock Car class of practical shooting. Modifications are very limited, mostly only trigger jobs, different sights, and grip tape; no fancy holsters allowed. However, the first shot must not be single-action. You can pretty much show up with something right off the shelf and be competitive.

IDPA SSP - Like USPSA Production, but slightly more restrictive.
IDPA ESP - Like USPSA Production with a few more modifications allowed. Also allows single action for the first shot.


See: http://www.uspsa.org/ and
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf

and

http://www.idpa.com/ and
http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

This is great. Thanks a lot!

[bwheeler03]

so it seems that the general consensus is that if I keep the caliber the same (.40), changing the barrel to a non-comp barrel in my 22c will make it legal in IDPA. That's what i deciphered from reading the rulebook, but I wanted to check with you all to see if you had any experiences with the matter. Thanks a bunch guys!

[mpolans]

so it seems that the general consensus is that if I keep the caliber the same (.40), changing the barrel to a non-comp barrel in my 22c will make it legal in IDPA. That's what i deciphered from reading the rulebook, but I wanted to check with you all to see if you had any experiences with the matter. Thanks a bunch guys!
Correct.

[ACC]

Go to www.idpa.com and look up the rule book. It will tell you the differences between divisions and exactly what mods are allowed in each division.

Regards,

Greg

[bwheeler03]

Been there. Many times. I know that comped guns are illegal in all divisions, but if just the barrel, not the slide, is changed, is it then legal? Would the cuts for the comp on the slide be considered "slide lightening"? Or would most RSOs give the benefit of the doubt?
A comped gun would be an additional benefit if I was able to change out the barrels. I am allowed to carry a comped gun on duty, and see no reason why not, so that's what I have. However, I would like to get some practice in on the weekends.
So it seems that the new barrel, as long as it is the same caliber, would be legal...at least how I read the rulebook.

[mpolans]

Whoops, take it back. I'm not sure if it's okay for IDPA. Regardless, I'd think at a local match, no one would care.

[ACC]

IDPA at local matches is a whole different story than at sanctioned matches. I am in the same boat. I bought a Glock 23 and because of our idiotic rules up here in Canada I have to have a barrel that is 4mm larger than the standard barrel. So with that new barrel, it is now not legal for IDPA. Man does that suck after I just paid $1000 for it.

The rules are the rules and IDPA stands firm about the rules. They do not want an arms race. If I were the MD or SO I would allow your pistol if it had a barrel of factory configuration and being that the slide was cut for the porting would not matter however you would have to shoot in ESP then. Is it "slide lightning". Technically yes but does it offer the shooter a competative advantage? I don't think so. That is how I would call it.

Greg